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  #21  
Old April 17th 21, 11:13 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
[email protected]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 163
Default OT: food: was: Nibali bike crash

On Friday, April 16, 2021 at 8:33:14 PM UTC-4, AMuzi wrote:
On 4/16/2021 6:16 PM, John B. wrote:
On Fri, 16 Apr 2021 04:44:16 -0700 (PDT), "
wrote:

On Thursday, April 15, 2021 at 8:54:57 PM UTC-4, Joy Beeson wrote:

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Yes, food is on-topic in every newsgroup, but barbecued meat is lousy
bike fuel.

Unless you have it *after* the ride.

Fat is the best bike fuel, unless you're constantly working at or above your aerobic threshold. If you aren't a racer, stay away from the carbs. That said, bbq is an excellent fuel. Tons of studies and research have been conducted in this area. The book "paleo diet for athletes" goes into great detail with plenty of supported research citations, and no, it isn't a militant diet book. It espouse an "80/20" philosophy, where taking in foods that are strictly forbidden by the strict paleo diet philosophy are not only allowed, but in many cases necessary for peak athletic performance. The owner of the Paleo Diet trademark Trevor Connor speaks often about his penchant for a box of popcorn at the movies, and eating simple-sugar candies while competing - both of which would send a militant paleo dieter into apoplexy..



Out of curiosity I researched "paleo diet" and found that in science
there is no such thing, as "palio people" had radically different
diets - which apparently they can identify from paleo remains in some
manner- depending on where they lived and ranged from nearly 100%
vegetable diets to mainly fish and/or animal protein diets :-)

That's a reasonable conclusion from the evidence. Such is
utterly useless for starting a fad or selling books to fat
people who would much rather buy a book and skim the first
few pages than lower their calorie intake.

https://paleodietforbeginner.com/best-paleo-diet-books/


The term 'paleo' is derived from the concept that humans evolved to eat and digest foods that had little if any 'post harvest' processing. IOW a hunter-gather type of diet. The idea has been 'modernized' to prescribe foods that have undergone as little processing as possible, basically fresh meats, fresh vegetables, and fresh fruits. The big no-no's in the paleo diet are processed sugars, processed grains, and processed dairy products. I'm not sure where John got the idea of "no such thing" as a paleolithic diet, while in the same sentence he writes

""palio people" had radically different
diets - which apparently they can identify from paleo remains in some
manner- depending on where they lived and ranged from nearly 100%
vegetable diets to mainly fish and/or animal protein diets


That - by definition - is the paleo diet. But john is correct that the diet had a great deal to do with the geographic location of the hunter-gather population under study. Those from more temperate to tropical climates ate a lot more fruits and vegetables than those from desert or arctic climates. As human physiology evolved, groups like the Inuit developed metabolic pathways that operate more in the ketosis range because they have little access to carbohydrates - a very different diet from the hunter gatherers who lived in areas with long growing seasons. This is one reason why the "ketogenic" diet fad is ill advised unless you have some genetic history with populations that existed for centuries eating minimal carbohydrate-based foods - the metabolic pathways to work in the ketosis range need to develop, and in some cases may never be really effective based on one's genetic predisposition. It isn't hard to find cases where people have ended up in the hospital because they quit carbs cold-turkey.

That said, even the current iteration of paleo diets are off the mark. Hunter-gatherers would first eat the soft-tissue parts of their kills - kidney, liver, brains, etc. - This has been proven by the forensic analysis John alluded to. The soft tissues are vastly more nutrient-dense than muscle tissue. The wild fruits and vegetables back then were more nutrient dense as well. You can't _really_ be on a paleo diet unless you eat soft tissue parts of animals and wild fruits and vegetable. I've met a few militant paleo dieters, and even they don't scour the butcher shop for soft-tissues. Of course, this is more than a little impractical. If you're lucky, you can afford free-range meats, and good luck finding non-farmed fresh vegetables (even the ones you grow in your own garden are derivatives of farmed vegetables). Even 'organic' fruits and vegetables are significantly less nutrient dense than wild versions.

So is the "paleo" diet really "paleo"? no. However, it's just common sense to understand that a dinner with grilled fresh lean meat and fresh vegetables is far better than a whopper with fries. I follow the model in the Paleo Diet for Athletes book, with modifications to suit my lifestyle. I have a 20 oz coffee every morning with about a tablespoon of light cream and a teaspoon of sugar. I drink a lot more alcohol than I should. I have regular servings of rice and potatoes . Most days I have a couple of mugs of tea with what amounts to a total of about a tablespoon of honey. Cream, sugar, alcohol, rice, and honey are all on the paleo no-no list. Potatoes are as well depending on whose version of 'paleo' you read.

The idea is moderation. The vast majority of my meals are just a cooked fresh meat and cooked fresh vegetables. I run and ride a total of about ten hours per week, so I can easily process the stuff that our paleolithic ancestors had little access to. Covert Bailey was a biochemist who wrote a couple of books in the 80's called "Fit or Fat". He approached the idea of dieting from the perspective of biochemistry. It's highly entertaining and extremely informative, but the message was clear - Eat fresh foods that underwent as little processing as possible, and exercise. Sound familiar? This was nearly 20 years before "paleo" came out.

The last key point is what Andrew wrote about simply reducing intake. It's against the laws of physics to gain weight if your caloric expenditure exceeds your caloric intake, and this applies even people with severe digestive disorders. For the average person with no underlying pathologies, just stop eating when you feel full.



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  #22  
Old April 17th 21, 12:27 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
News 2021
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 281
Default OT: food: was: Nibali bike crash

On Sat, 17 Apr 2021 03:13:36 -0700, scribed:

On Friday, April 16, 2021 at 8:33:14 PM UTC-4, AMuzi wrote:
On 4/16/2021 6:16 PM, John B. wrote:
On Fri, 16 Apr 2021 04:44:16 -0700 (PDT), "
wrote:

On Thursday, April 15, 2021 at 8:54:57 PM UTC-4, Joy Beeson wrote:


----------------------------------------------------------------------

Yes, food is on-topic in every newsgroup, but barbecued meat is
lousy bike fuel.

Unless you have it *after* the ride.

Fat is the best bike fuel, unless you're constantly working at or
above your aerobic threshold. If you aren't a racer, stay away from
the carbs. That said, bbq is an excellent fuel. Tons of studies and
research have been conducted in this area. The book "paleo diet for
athletes" goes into great detail with plenty of supported research
citations, and no, it isn't a militant diet book. It espouse an
"80/20" philosophy, where taking in foods that are strictly
forbidden by the strict paleo diet philosophy are not only allowed,
but in many cases necessary for peak athletic performance. The owner
of the Paleo Diet trademark Trevor Connor speaks often about his
penchant for a box of popcorn at the movies, and eating simple-sugar
candies while competing - both of which would send a militant paleo
dieter into apoplexy.


Out of curiosity I researched "paleo diet" and found that in science
there is no such thing, as "palio people" had radically different
diets - which apparently they can identify from paleo remains in some
manner- depending on where they lived and ranged from nearly 100%
vegetable diets to mainly fish and/or animal protein diets :-)

That's a reasonable conclusion from the evidence. Such is utterly
useless for starting a fad or selling books to fat people who would
much rather buy a book and skim the first few pages than lower their
calorie intake.

https://paleodietforbeginner.com/best-paleo-diet-books/


The term 'paleo' is derived from the concept that humans evolved to eat
and digest foods that had little if any 'post harvest' processing. IOW a
hunter-gather type of diet. The idea has been 'modernized' to prescribe
foods that have undergone as little processing as possible, basically
fresh meats, fresh vegetables, and fresh fruits. The big no-no's in the
paleo diet are processed sugars, processed grains, and processed dairy
products. I'm not sure where John got the idea of "no such thing" as a
paleolithic diet, while in the same sentence he writes


The point is that the paleo diet was different in different areas.
Some continents didn't have certain animals, vegetable, fruit and other
plants.
  #23  
Old April 17th 21, 06:31 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Jeff Liebermann
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 4,018
Default OT: food: was: Nibali bike crash

On Sat, 17 Apr 2021 06:16:58 +0700, John B.
wrote:

Out of curiosity I researched "paleo diet" and found that in science
there is no such thing, as "palio people" had radically different
diets - which apparently they can identify from paleo remains in some
manner- depending on where they lived and ranged from nearly 100%
vegetable diets to mainly fish and/or animal protein diets :-)


Of course. The archaeological remains were likely from those who died
from eating a rather monotonous and unbalanced diet devoid of
essential nutrients and important trace minerals. Had they gone to a
restaurant or ordered takeout, they would have done better.

--
Jeff Liebermann
PO Box 272
http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Ben Lomond CA 95005-0272
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558
  #24  
Old April 17th 21, 11:53 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
John B.[_3_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 5,697
Default OT: food: was: Nibali bike crash

On Sat, 17 Apr 2021 03:13:36 -0700 (PDT), "
wrote:

On Friday, April 16, 2021 at 8:33:14 PM UTC-4, AMuzi wrote:
On 4/16/2021 6:16 PM, John B. wrote:
On Fri, 16 Apr 2021 04:44:16 -0700 (PDT), "
wrote:

On Thursday, April 15, 2021 at 8:54:57 PM UTC-4, Joy Beeson wrote:

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Yes, food is on-topic in every newsgroup, but barbecued meat is lousy
bike fuel.

Unless you have it *after* the ride.

Fat is the best bike fuel, unless you're constantly working at or above your aerobic threshold. If you aren't a racer, stay away from the carbs. That said, bbq is an excellent fuel. Tons of studies and research have been conducted in this area. The book "paleo diet for athletes" goes into great detail with plenty of supported research citations, and no, it isn't a militant diet book. It espouse an "80/20" philosophy, where taking in foods that are strictly forbidden by the strict paleo diet philosophy are not only allowed, but in many cases necessary for peak athletic performance. The owner of the Paleo Diet trademark Trevor Connor speaks often about his penchant for a box of popcorn at the movies, and eating simple-sugar candies while competing - both of which would send a militant paleo dieter into apoplexy.


Out of curiosity I researched "paleo diet" and found that in science
there is no such thing, as "palio people" had radically different
diets - which apparently they can identify from paleo remains in some
manner- depending on where they lived and ranged from nearly 100%
vegetable diets to mainly fish and/or animal protein diets :-)

That's a reasonable conclusion from the evidence. Such is
utterly useless for starting a fad or selling books to fat
people who would much rather buy a book and skim the first
few pages than lower their calorie intake.

https://paleodietforbeginner.com/best-paleo-diet-books/


The term 'paleo' is derived from the concept that humans evolved to eat and digest foods that had little if any 'post harvest' processing. IOW a hunter-gather type of diet. The idea has been 'modernized' to prescribe foods that have undergone as little processing as possible, basically fresh meats, fresh vegetables, and fresh fruits. The big no-no's in the paleo diet are processed sugars, processed grains, and processed dairy products. I'm not sure where John got the idea of "no such thing" as a paleolithic diet, while in the same sentence he writes

""palio people" had radically different
diets - which apparently they can identify from paleo remains in some
manner- depending on where they lived and ranged from nearly 100%
vegetable diets to mainly fish and/or animal protein diets


That - by definition - is the paleo diet. But john is correct that the diet had a great deal to do with the geographic location of the hunter-gather population under study. Those from more temperate to tropical climates ate a lot more fruits and vegetables than those from desert or arctic climates. As human physiology evolved, groups like the Inuit developed metabolic pathways that operate more in the ketosis range because they have little access to carbohydrates - a very different diet from the hunter gatherers who lived in areas with long growing seasons. This is one reason why the "ketogenic" diet fad is ill advised unless you have some genetic history with populations that existed for centuries eating minimal carbohydrate-based foods - the metabolic pathways to work in the ketosis range need to develop, and in some cases may never be really effective based on one's genetic predisposition. It isn't hard to find cases where people have ended up in the hospital because they quit
carbs cold-turkey.

That said, even the current iteration of paleo diets are off the mark. Hunter-gatherers would first eat the soft-tissue parts of their kills - kidney, liver, brains, etc. - This has been proven by the forensic analysis John alluded to. The soft tissues are vastly more nutrient-dense than muscle tissue. The wild fruits and vegetables back then were more nutrient dense as well. You can't _really_ be on a paleo diet unless you eat soft tissue parts of animals and wild fruits and vegetable. I've met a few militant paleo dieters, and even they don't scour the butcher shop for soft-tissues. Of course, this is more than a little impractical. If you're lucky, you can afford free-range meats, and good luck finding non-farmed fresh vegetables (even the ones you grow in your own garden are derivatives of farmed vegetables). Even 'organic' fruits and vegetables are significantly less nutrient dense than wild versions.

So is the "paleo" diet really "paleo"? no. However, it's just common sense to understand that a dinner with grilled fresh lean meat and fresh vegetables is far better than a whopper with fries. I follow the model in the Paleo Diet for Athletes book, with modifications to suit my lifestyle. I have a 20 oz coffee every morning with about a tablespoon of light cream and a teaspoon of sugar. I drink a lot more alcohol than I should. I have regular servings of rice and potatoes . Most days I have a couple of mugs of tea with what amounts to a total of about a tablespoon of honey. Cream, sugar, alcohol, rice, and honey are all on the paleo no-no list. Potatoes are as well depending on whose version of 'paleo' you read.

The idea is moderation. The vast majority of my meals are just a cooked fresh meat and cooked fresh vegetables. I run and ride a total of about ten hours per week, so I can easily process the stuff that our paleolithic ancestors had little access to. Covert Bailey was a biochemist who wrote a couple of books in the 80's called "Fit or Fat". He approached the idea of dieting from the perspective of biochemistry. It's highly entertaining and extremely informative, but the message was clear - Eat fresh foods that underwent as little processing as possible, and exercise. Sound familiar? This was nearly 20 years before "paleo" came out.

The last key point is what Andrew wrote about simply reducing intake. It's against the laws of physics to gain weight if your caloric expenditure exceeds your caloric intake, and this applies even people with severe digestive disorders. For the average person with no underlying pathologies, just stop eating when you feel full.


Given the above I guess most developing Asian countries have a "paleo"
diet. I can't for example even remember when I ate any preserved food
- well except for rice which is simply threshed and dried so I guess
it might be considered "preserved". But veggies and meat? Fresh from
the market.
--
Cheers,

John B.

  #25  
Old April 17th 21, 11:58 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
[email protected]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,041
Default OT: food: was: Nibali bike crash

On Friday, April 16, 2021 at 8:18:55 PM UTC-5, John B. wrote:
On Fri, 16 Apr 2021 19:33:04 -0500, AMuzi wrote:

On 4/16/2021 6:16 PM, John B. wrote:
On Fri, 16 Apr 2021 04:44:16 -0700 (PDT), "
wrote:

On Thursday, April 15, 2021 at 8:54:57 PM UTC-4, Joy Beeson wrote:

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Yes, food is on-topic in every newsgroup, but barbecued meat is lousy
bike fuel.

Unless you have it *after* the ride.

Fat is the best bike fuel, unless you're constantly working at or above your aerobic threshold. If you aren't a racer, stay away from the carbs. That said, bbq is an excellent fuel. Tons of studies and research have been conducted in this area. The book "paleo diet for athletes" goes into great detail with plenty of supported research citations, and no, it isn't a militant diet book. It espouse an "80/20" philosophy, where taking in foods that are strictly forbidden by the strict paleo diet philosophy are not only allowed, but in many cases necessary for peak athletic performance. The owner of the Paleo Diet trademark Trevor Connor speaks often about his penchant for a box of popcorn at the movies, and eating simple-sugar candies while competing - both of which would send a militant paleo dieter into apoplexy.


Out of curiosity I researched "paleo diet" and found that in science
there is no such thing, as "palio people" had radically different
diets - which apparently they can identify from paleo remains in some
manner- depending on where they lived and ranged from nearly 100%
vegetable diets to mainly fish and/or animal protein diets :-)


That's a reasonable conclusion from the evidence. Such is
utterly useless for starting a fad or selling books to fat
people who would much rather buy a book and skim the first
few pages than lower their calorie intake.

https://paleodietforbeginner.com/best-paleo-diet-books/

Re diets. Years ago I was reading about the "Atkins Diet" and some
"fat farm's" weight loss schedule and it was apparent that, at least
at that particular establish that diet was only a small part of the
weight loss program as the amount of exercise that they were getting
was enough to floor a horse.


Gosh, that sound a lot like the well known but obvious lie about losing weight. Burn more calories than you consume. Its so simple and obvious it must be a lie. Or magical myth.




But weight loss is easy. Just put the food on the plate and eat it
(the food that is). If you don't lose weight put less food on the
plate :-)
--
Cheers,

John B.

  #26  
Old April 18th 21, 02:16 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
John B.[_3_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 5,697
Default OT: food: was: Nibali bike crash

On Sat, 17 Apr 2021 15:58:06 -0700 (PDT), "
wrote:

On Friday, April 16, 2021 at 8:18:55 PM UTC-5, John B. wrote:
On Fri, 16 Apr 2021 19:33:04 -0500, AMuzi wrote:

On 4/16/2021 6:16 PM, John B. wrote:
On Fri, 16 Apr 2021 04:44:16 -0700 (PDT), "
wrote:

On Thursday, April 15, 2021 at 8:54:57 PM UTC-4, Joy Beeson wrote:

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Yes, food is on-topic in every newsgroup, but barbecued meat is lousy
bike fuel.

Unless you have it *after* the ride.

Fat is the best bike fuel, unless you're constantly working at or above your aerobic threshold. If you aren't a racer, stay away from the carbs. That said, bbq is an excellent fuel. Tons of studies and research have been conducted in this area. The book "paleo diet for athletes" goes into great detail with plenty of supported research citations, and no, it isn't a militant diet book. It espouse an "80/20" philosophy, where taking in foods that are strictly forbidden by the strict paleo diet philosophy are not only allowed, but in many cases necessary for peak athletic performance. The owner of the Paleo Diet trademark Trevor Connor speaks often about his penchant for a box of popcorn at the movies, and eating simple-sugar candies while competing - both of which would send a militant paleo dieter into apoplexy.


Out of curiosity I researched "paleo diet" and found that in science
there is no such thing, as "palio people" had radically different
diets - which apparently they can identify from paleo remains in some
manner- depending on where they lived and ranged from nearly 100%
vegetable diets to mainly fish and/or animal protein diets :-)


That's a reasonable conclusion from the evidence. Such is
utterly useless for starting a fad or selling books to fat
people who would much rather buy a book and skim the first
few pages than lower their calorie intake.

https://paleodietforbeginner.com/best-paleo-diet-books/

Re diets. Years ago I was reading about the "Atkins Diet" and some
"fat farm's" weight loss schedule and it was apparent that, at least
at that particular establish that diet was only a small part of the
weight loss program as the amount of exercise that they were getting
was enough to floor a horse.


Gosh, that sound a lot like the well known but obvious lie about losing weight. Burn more calories than you consume. Its so simple and obvious it must be a lie. Or magical myth.

Well, based on the U.S. tourists we see here it must be a myth :-)

--
Cheers,

John B.

  #27  
Old April 18th 21, 11:01 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
[email protected]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 163
Default OT: food: was: Nibali bike crash

On Saturday, April 17, 2021 at 7:27:24 AM UTC-4, News 2021 wrote:
On Sat, 17 Apr 2021 03:13:36 -0700, scribed:
On Friday, April 16, 2021 at 8:33:14 PM UTC-4, AMuzi wrote:
On 4/16/2021 6:16 PM, John B. wrote:
On Fri, 16 Apr 2021 04:44:16 -0700 (PDT), "
wrote:

On Thursday, April 15, 2021 at 8:54:57 PM UTC-4, Joy Beeson wrote:


----------------------------------------------------------------------

Yes, food is on-topic in every newsgroup, but barbecued meat is
lousy bike fuel.

Unless you have it *after* the ride.

Fat is the best bike fuel, unless you're constantly working at or
above your aerobic threshold. If you aren't a racer, stay away from
the carbs. That said, bbq is an excellent fuel. Tons of studies and
research have been conducted in this area. The book "paleo diet for
athletes" goes into great detail with plenty of supported research
citations, and no, it isn't a militant diet book. It espouse an
"80/20" philosophy, where taking in foods that are strictly
forbidden by the strict paleo diet philosophy are not only allowed,
but in many cases necessary for peak athletic performance. The owner
of the Paleo Diet trademark Trevor Connor speaks often about his
penchant for a box of popcorn at the movies, and eating simple-sugar
candies while competing - both of which would send a militant paleo
dieter into apoplexy.


Out of curiosity I researched "paleo diet" and found that in science
there is no such thing, as "palio people" had radically different
diets - which apparently they can identify from paleo remains in some
manner- depending on where they lived and ranged from nearly 100%
vegetable diets to mainly fish and/or animal protein diets :-)

That's a reasonable conclusion from the evidence. Such is utterly
useless for starting a fad or selling books to fat people who would
much rather buy a book and skim the first few pages than lower their
calorie intake.

https://paleodietforbeginner.com/best-paleo-diet-books/


The term 'paleo' is derived from the concept that humans evolved to eat
and digest foods that had little if any 'post harvest' processing. IOW a
hunter-gather type of diet. The idea has been 'modernized' to prescribe
foods that have undergone as little processing as possible, basically
fresh meats, fresh vegetables, and fresh fruits. The big no-no's in the
paleo diet are processed sugars, processed grains, and processed dairy
products. I'm not sure where John got the idea of "no such thing" as a
paleolithic diet, while in the same sentence he writes

The point is that the paleo diet was different in different areas.
Some continents didn't have certain animals, vegetable, fruit and other
plants.


Yeah, both John and I wrote that.
  #28  
Old April 18th 21, 11:38 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
[email protected]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 163
Default OT: food: was: Nibali bike crash

On Saturday, April 17, 2021 at 6:53:56 PM UTC-4, John B. wrote:
On Sat, 17 Apr 2021 03:13:36 -0700 (PDT), "
wrote:

On Friday, April 16, 2021 at 8:33:14 PM UTC-4, AMuzi wrote:
On 4/16/2021 6:16 PM, John B. wrote:
On Fri, 16 Apr 2021 04:44:16 -0700 (PDT), "
wrote:

On Thursday, April 15, 2021 at 8:54:57 PM UTC-4, Joy Beeson wrote:

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Yes, food is on-topic in every newsgroup, but barbecued meat is lousy
bike fuel.

Unless you have it *after* the ride.

Fat is the best bike fuel, unless you're constantly working at or above your aerobic threshold. If you aren't a racer, stay away from the carbs. That said, bbq is an excellent fuel. Tons of studies and research have been conducted in this area. The book "paleo diet for athletes" goes into great detail with plenty of supported research citations, and no, it isn't a militant diet book. It espouse an "80/20" philosophy, where taking in foods that are strictly forbidden by the strict paleo diet philosophy are not only allowed, but in many cases necessary for peak athletic performance. The owner of the Paleo Diet trademark Trevor Connor speaks often about his penchant for a box of popcorn at the movies, and eating simple-sugar candies while competing - both of which would send a militant paleo dieter into apoplexy.


Out of curiosity I researched "paleo diet" and found that in science
there is no such thing, as "palio people" had radically different
diets - which apparently they can identify from paleo remains in some
manner- depending on where they lived and ranged from nearly 100%
vegetable diets to mainly fish and/or animal protein diets :-)

That's a reasonable conclusion from the evidence. Such is
utterly useless for starting a fad or selling books to fat
people who would much rather buy a book and skim the first
few pages than lower their calorie intake.

https://paleodietforbeginner.com/best-paleo-diet-books/


The term 'paleo' is derived from the concept that humans evolved to eat and digest foods that had little if any 'post harvest' processing. IOW a hunter-gather type of diet. The idea has been 'modernized' to prescribe foods that have undergone as little processing as possible, basically fresh meats, fresh vegetables, and fresh fruits. The big no-no's in the paleo diet are processed sugars, processed grains, and processed dairy products. I'm not sure where John got the idea of "no such thing" as a paleolithic diet, while in the same sentence he writes

""palio people" had radically different
diets - which apparently they can identify from paleo remains in some
manner- depending on where they lived and ranged from nearly 100%
vegetable diets to mainly fish and/or animal protein diets


That - by definition - is the paleo diet. But john is correct that the diet had a great deal to do with the geographic location of the hunter-gather population under study. Those from more temperate to tropical climates ate a lot more fruits and vegetables than those from desert or arctic climates. As human physiology evolved, groups like the Inuit developed metabolic pathways that operate more in the ketosis range because they have little access to carbohydrates - a very different diet from the hunter gatherers who lived in areas with long growing seasons. This is one reason why the "ketogenic" diet fad is ill advised unless you have some genetic history with populations that existed for centuries eating minimal carbohydrate-based foods - the metabolic pathways to work in the ketosis range need to develop, and in some cases may never be really effective based on one's genetic predisposition. It isn't hard to find cases where people have ended up in the hospital because they quit
carbs cold-turkey.

That said, even the current iteration of paleo diets are off the mark. Hunter-gatherers would first eat the soft-tissue parts of their kills - kidney, liver, brains, etc. - This has been proven by the forensic analysis John alluded to. The soft tissues are vastly more nutrient-dense than muscle tissue. The wild fruits and vegetables back then were more nutrient dense as well. You can't _really_ be on a paleo diet unless you eat soft tissue parts of animals and wild fruits and vegetable. I've met a few militant paleo dieters, and even they don't scour the butcher shop for soft-tissues. Of course, this is more than a little impractical. If you're lucky, you can afford free-range meats, and good luck finding non-farmed fresh vegetables (even the ones you grow in your own garden are derivatives of farmed vegetables). Even 'organic' fruits and vegetables are significantly less nutrient dense than wild versions.

So is the "paleo" diet really "paleo"? no. However, it's just common sense to understand that a dinner with grilled fresh lean meat and fresh vegetables is far better than a whopper with fries. I follow the model in the Paleo Diet for Athletes book, with modifications to suit my lifestyle. I have a 20 oz coffee every morning with about a tablespoon of light cream and a teaspoon of sugar. I drink a lot more alcohol than I should. I have regular servings of rice and potatoes . Most days I have a couple of mugs of tea with what amounts to a total of about a tablespoon of honey. Cream, sugar, alcohol, rice, and honey are all on the paleo no-no list. Potatoes are as well depending on whose version of 'paleo' you read.

The idea is moderation. The vast majority of my meals are just a cooked fresh meat and cooked fresh vegetables. I run and ride a total of about ten hours per week, so I can easily process the stuff that our paleolithic ancestors had little access to. Covert Bailey was a biochemist who wrote a couple of books in the 80's called "Fit or Fat". He approached the idea of dieting from the perspective of biochemistry. It's highly entertaining and extremely informative, but the message was clear - Eat fresh foods that underwent as little processing as possible, and exercise. Sound familiar? This was nearly 20 years before "paleo" came out.

The last key point is what Andrew wrote about simply reducing intake. It's against the laws of physics to gain weight if your caloric expenditure exceeds your caloric intake, and this applies even people with severe digestive disorders. For the average person with no underlying pathologies, just stop eating when you feel full.

Given the above I guess most developing Asian countries have a "paleo"
diet. I can't for example even remember when I ate any preserved food
- well except for rice which is simply threshed and dried so I guess
it might be considered "preserved". But veggies and meat? Fresh from
the market.


There's something to be said for daily trips to the market for fresh foods. I've been calling it "paleo-esque", However, rice is still considered a paleo no-no because it would require not only the threshing but cooking as well. IF you dont boil rice it isn't digestible, it just passes right through you. Boiling breaks apart the tightly packed carbohydrate chains and makes the individual carbohydrate molecules metabolically available. PBS put out a miniseries a while ago called "Delicious Science". There a video excerpt at the following link about halfway down the page. It's only 2:30 long and talks about what a fantastic food energy source rice is, and what cooking does.
https://www.pbs.org/food/features/fo...e-what-we-eat/

The threshold from paleolithic hunter gatherer tribes and agrarian societies starts when some group figured out how to boil water, the started experimenting - or like most discoveries, it may happened entirely by accident. There are other diet "schemes" that have issues with rice, such as the Whole 30 diet, which doesn't allow it because white rice is processed which is heavily frowned upon, and whole-grain rice - while containing some great micronutrients - also contains lectins which are generally considered toxic by killing off the intestinal biota which limits the bodys ability to uptake nutrients. I love rice, I generally have one or two servings of Basmati a week. Like I wrote earlier, I'm not militant about any of this, but there's enough research into food science to support some common sense changes to your diet that allow for healthy balanced meals that taste good, while also letting you have popcorn and beer while watching a hockey game.

  #29  
Old April 18th 21, 04:13 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Frank Krygowski[_4_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 10,538
Default OT: food: was: Nibali bike crash

On 4/17/2021 9:16 PM, John B. wrote:
On Sat, 17 Apr 2021 15:58:06 -0700 (PDT), "
wrote:

On Friday, April 16, 2021 at 8:18:55 PM UTC-5, John B. wrote:
On Fri, 16 Apr 2021 19:33:04 -0500, AMuzi wrote:

On 4/16/2021 6:16 PM, John B. wrote:
On Fri, 16 Apr 2021 04:44:16 -0700 (PDT), "
wrote:

On Thursday, April 15, 2021 at 8:54:57 PM UTC-4, Joy Beeson wrote:

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Yes, food is on-topic in every newsgroup, but barbecued meat is lousy
bike fuel.

Unless you have it *after* the ride.

Fat is the best bike fuel, unless you're constantly working at or above your aerobic threshold. If you aren't a racer, stay away from the carbs. That said, bbq is an excellent fuel. Tons of studies and research have been conducted in this area. The book "paleo diet for athletes" goes into great detail with plenty of supported research citations, and no, it isn't a militant diet book. It espouse an "80/20" philosophy, where taking in foods that are strictly forbidden by the strict paleo diet philosophy are not only allowed, but in many cases necessary for peak athletic performance. The owner of the Paleo Diet trademark Trevor Connor speaks often about his penchant for a box of popcorn at the movies, and eating simple-sugar candies while competing - both of which would send a militant paleo dieter into apoplexy.


Out of curiosity I researched "paleo diet" and found that in science
there is no such thing, as "palio people" had radically different
diets - which apparently they can identify from paleo remains in some
manner- depending on where they lived and ranged from nearly 100%
vegetable diets to mainly fish and/or animal protein diets :-)


That's a reasonable conclusion from the evidence. Such is
utterly useless for starting a fad or selling books to fat
people who would much rather buy a book and skim the first
few pages than lower their calorie intake.

https://paleodietforbeginner.com/best-paleo-diet-books/
Re diets. Years ago I was reading about the "Atkins Diet" and some
"fat farm's" weight loss schedule and it was apparent that, at least
at that particular establish that diet was only a small part of the
weight loss program as the amount of exercise that they were getting
was enough to floor a horse.


Gosh, that sound a lot like the well known but obvious lie about losing weight. Burn more calories than you consume. Its so simple and obvious it must be a lie. Or magical myth.

Well, based on the U.S. tourists we see here it must be a myth :-)


Every time we had freshly returned from Europe, I was amazed by the
percentage of Americans who are obviously obese.

I tend to not notice it until I spend time around people who are, well,
more normal.

--
- Frank Krygowski
 




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