R.B.T Mt Shasta Ride

Jay can you come down from Portland?
Tom can you come up from Oakland?
We'll ride the mtn and get on the same page

On Monday, April 26, 2021 at 12:59:42 AM UTC-5, wrote:
Jay can you come down from Portland?
Tom can you come up from Oakland? 2-
We'll ride the mtn and get on the same page

Not answering for Tom or Jay. But in my travels long ago, I learned that California is a really big state. Half of California is above San Francisco.. And its about 300+ miles up to Oregon. For fun I looked up the distance from Portland, Jay's home, to Mt. Shasta and its 360 miles. And from Oakland, Tom's home, its 270 miles. I'm all for bicycling. Yeah. But when you have to drive 2-3-4 times further than you are going to ride, its not worth it.

wrote:
On Monday, April 26, 2021 at 12:59:42 AM UTC-5, wrote:
Jay can you come down from Portland?
Tom can you come up from Oakland? 2-
We'll ride the mtn and get on the same page

Not answering for Tom or Jay. But in my travels long ago, I learned that
California is a really big state. Half of California is above San
Francisco. And its about 300+ miles up to Oregon. For fun I looked up
the distance from Portland, Jay's home, to Mt. Shasta and its 360 miles.
And from Oakland, Tom's home, its 270 miles. I'm all for bicycling.
Yeah. But when you have to drive 2-3-4 times further than you are going
to ride, its not worth it.


If you drive to MTB centres or otherwise you probably will!

Actually having checked, my normal MTB places are about 30miles out, I
rarely ride that distance on the MTB, 20 is the sweet spot, for such
terrain.

Longer tamer stuff is the Gravel bikes thing.

Due to lockdowns etc I did ride more local loops on the MTB 35 or so miles,
don’t get me wrong was fun flattening and flattering some of the rooty bits
which on the Gravel do need to pick your line, not so on the MTB which just
point at the horizon and let it float though!

But it’s hard work rolling the beasty over such distance and is totally
overkill!

Roger Merriman

On Wednesday, April 28, 2021 at 9:46:54 AM UTC-7, Roger Merriman wrote:
wrote:
On Monday, April 26, 2021 at 12:59:42 AM UTC-5, wrote:
Jay can you come down from Portland?
Tom can you come up from Oakland? 2-
We'll ride the mtn and get on the same page

Not answering for Tom or Jay. But in my travels long ago, I learned that
California is a really big state. Half of California is above San
Francisco. And its about 300+ miles up to Oregon. For fun I looked up
the distance from Portland, Jay's home, to Mt. Shasta and its 360 miles..
And from Oakland, Tom's home, its 270 miles. I'm all for bicycling.
Yeah. But when you have to drive 2-3-4 times further than you are going
to ride, its not worth it.

If you drive to MTB centres or otherwise you probably will!

Actually having checked, my normal MTB places are about 30miles out, I
rarely ride that distance on the MTB, 20 is the sweet spot, for such
terrain.

Longer tamer stuff is the Gravel bikes thing.

Due to lockdowns etc I did ride more local loops on the MTB 35 or so miles,
don’t get me wrong was fun flattening and flattering some of the rooty bits
which on the Gravel do need to pick your line, not so on the MTB which just
point at the horizon and let it float though!

But it’s hard work rolling the beasty over such distance and is totally
overkill!
There is a local ride around Lake Chabot on a trail that is DAMNED hard. I haven't done that yet this year because of the lockdowns and the weather has left much etc. under the shadowed areas. But usually the gravel bikes easily outrun the trail bikes except on hard downhills. Some of the climbs are so difficult that it takes a full suspension to keep the wheels on the ground enough to make them. I developed a manner of making it 90% to the top on a gravel bike and stepping off like I knew what I was doing. But the downhills had a LOT of rain ruts cut into them and it is difficult to ride down that stuff. The local dirt is a clay-like powder that will harden solid as rock in the dry season and then turn back into powder as the season rolls on. with those ruts unseen under the powder. The super low gearing on the gravel bike isn't to climb steep hills but to climb long distances at relatively mild inclines. A gravel bike is so light that on a steep climb it will simply lift the front wheel and then swing around dumping you on the ground.

Tom Kunich wrote:
On Wednesday, April 28, 2021 at 9:46:54 AM UTC-7, Roger Merriman wrote:
wrote:
On Monday, April 26, 2021 at 12:59:42 AM UTC-5, wrote:
Jay can you come down from Portland?
Tom can you come up from Oakland? 2-
We'll ride the mtn and get on the same page

Not answering for Tom or Jay. But in my travels long ago, I learned that
California is a really big state. Half of California is above San
Francisco. And its about 300+ miles up to Oregon. For fun I looked up
the distance from Portland, Jay's home, to Mt. Shasta and its 360 miles.
And from Oakland, Tom's home, its 270 miles. I'm all for bicycling.
Yeah. But when you have to drive 2-3-4 times further than you are going
to ride, its not worth it.

If you drive to MTB centres or otherwise you probably will!

Actually having checked, my normal MTB places are about 30miles out, I
rarely ride that distance on the MTB, 20 is the sweet spot, for such
terrain.

Longer tamer stuff is the Gravel bikes thing.

Due to lockdowns etc I did ride more local loops on the MTB 35 or so miles,
don’t get me wrong was fun flattening and flattering some of the rooty bits
which on the Gravel do need to pick your line, not so on the MTB which just
point at the horizon and let it float though!

But it’s hard work rolling the beasty over such distance and is totally
overkill!
There is a local ride around Lake Chabot on a trail that is DAMNED hard.
I haven't done that yet this year because of the lockdowns and the
weather has left much etc. under the shadowed areas. But usually the
gravel bikes easily outrun the trail bikes except on hard downhills. Some
of the climbs are so difficult that it takes a full suspension to keep
the wheels on the ground enough to make them. I developed a manner of
making it 90% to the top on a gravel bike and stepping off like I knew
what I was doing. But the downhills had a LOT of rain ruts cut into them
and it is difficult to ride down that stuff. The local dirt is a
clay-like powder that will harden solid as rock in the dry season and
then turn back into powder as the season rolls on. with those ruts unseen
under the powder. The super low gearing on the gravel bike isn't to climb
steep hills but to climb long distances at relatively mild inclines. A
gravel bike is so light that on a steep climb it will simply lift the
front wheel and then swing around dumping you on the ground.

That’s geometry than weight that will cause a bike to pop it’s wheel, plus
technique. I run out of grip/fitness long before the gravel or MTB lifts
it’s wheel.

Gravel bikes don’t tend to have super low gearing, just a touch below 1-1
with the most common setups either 1 or 2 by, get the odd one with near MTB
gearing but they are fairly uncommon, and even rarer seen!

Roger Merriman

On Thursday, April 29, 2021 at 6:03:34 PM UTC-7, Roger Merriman wrote:
Tom Kunich wrote:
On Wednesday, April 28, 2021 at 9:46:54 AM UTC-7, Roger Merriman wrote:
wrote:
On Monday, April 26, 2021 at 12:59:42 AM UTC-5, wrote:
Jay can you come down from Portland?
Tom can you come up from Oakland? 2-
We'll ride the mtn and get on the same page

Not answering for Tom or Jay. But in my travels long ago, I learned that
California is a really big state. Half of California is above San
Francisco. And its about 300+ miles up to Oregon. For fun I looked up
the distance from Portland, Jay's home, to Mt. Shasta and its 360 miles.
And from Oakland, Tom's home, its 270 miles. I'm all for bicycling.
Yeah. But when you have to drive 2-3-4 times further than you are going
to ride, its not worth it.

If you drive to MTB centres or otherwise you probably will!

Actually having checked, my normal MTB places are about 30miles out, I
rarely ride that distance on the MTB, 20 is the sweet spot, for such
terrain.

Longer tamer stuff is the Gravel bikes thing.

Due to lockdowns etc I did ride more local loops on the MTB 35 or so miles,
don’t get me wrong was fun flattening and flattering some of the rooty bits
which on the Gravel do need to pick your line, not so on the MTB which just
point at the horizon and let it float though!

But it’s hard work rolling the beasty over such distance and is totally
overkill!
There is a local ride around Lake Chabot on a trail that is DAMNED hard..
I haven't done that yet this year because of the lockdowns and the
weather has left much etc. under the shadowed areas. But usually the
gravel bikes easily outrun the trail bikes except on hard downhills. Some
of the climbs are so difficult that it takes a full suspension to keep
the wheels on the ground enough to make them. I developed a manner of
making it 90% to the top on a gravel bike and stepping off like I knew
what I was doing. But the downhills had a LOT of rain ruts cut into them
and it is difficult to ride down that stuff. The local dirt is a
clay-like powder that will harden solid as rock in the dry season and
then turn back into powder as the season rolls on. with those ruts unseen
under the powder. The super low gearing on the gravel bike isn't to climb
steep hills but to climb long distances at relatively mild inclines. A
gravel bike is so light that on a steep climb it will simply lift the
front wheel and then swing around dumping you on the ground.

That’s geometry than weight that will cause a bike to pop it’s wheel, plus
technique. I run out of grip/fitness long before the gravel or MTB lifts
it’s wheel.

Gravel bikes don’t tend to have super low gearing, just a touch below 1-1
with the most common setups either 1 or 2 by, get the odd one with near MTB
gearing but they are fairly uncommon, and even rarer seen!

Many of the gravel trails around here are in the state parks in the Oakland hills and there are place in which you have 24% climbs. No technique is going to help you not to life a carbon fiber fork on a bike geared low enough to make it up a climb like that.

Tom Kunich wrote:
On Thursday, April 29, 2021 at 6:03:34 PM UTC-7, Roger Merriman wrote:
Tom Kunich wrote:
On Wednesday, April 28, 2021 at 9:46:54 AM UTC-7, Roger Merriman wrote:
wrote:
On Monday, April 26, 2021 at 12:59:42 AM UTC-5, wrote:
Jay can you come down from Portland?
Tom can you come up from Oakland? 2-
We'll ride the mtn and get on the same page

Not answering for Tom or Jay. But in my travels long ago, I learned that
California is a really big state. Half of California is above San
Francisco. And its about 300+ miles up to Oregon. For fun I looked up
the distance from Portland, Jay's home, to Mt. Shasta and its 360 miles.
And from Oakland, Tom's home, its 270 miles. I'm all for bicycling.
Yeah. But when you have to drive 2-3-4 times further than you are going
to ride, its not worth it.

If you drive to MTB centres or otherwise you probably will!

Actually having checked, my normal MTB places are about 30miles out, I
rarely ride that distance on the MTB, 20 is the sweet spot, for such
terrain.

Longer tamer stuff is the Gravel bikes thing.

Due to lockdowns etc I did ride more local loops on the MTB 35 or so miles,
don’t get me wrong was fun flattening and flattering some of the rooty bits
which on the Gravel do need to pick your line, not so on the MTB which just
point at the horizon and let it float though!

But it’s hard work rolling the beasty over such distance and is totally
overkill!
There is a local ride around Lake Chabot on a trail that is DAMNED hard.
I haven't done that yet this year because of the lockdowns and the
weather has left much etc. under the shadowed areas. But usually the
gravel bikes easily outrun the trail bikes except on hard downhills. Some
of the climbs are so difficult that it takes a full suspension to keep
the wheels on the ground enough to make them. I developed a manner of
making it 90% to the top on a gravel bike and stepping off like I knew
what I was doing. But the downhills had a LOT of rain ruts cut into them
and it is difficult to ride down that stuff. The local dirt is a
clay-like powder that will harden solid as rock in the dry season and
then turn back into powder as the season rolls on. with those ruts unseen
under the powder. The super low gearing on the gravel bike isn't to climb
steep hills but to climb long distances at relatively mild inclines. A
gravel bike is so light that on a steep climb it will simply lift the
front wheel and then swing around dumping you on the ground.

That’s geometry than weight that will cause a bike to pop it’s wheel, plus
technique. I run out of grip/fitness long before the gravel or MTB lifts
it’s wheel.

Gravel bikes don’t tend to have super low gearing, just a touch below 1-1
with the most common setups either 1 or 2 by, get the odd one with near MTB
gearing but they are fairly uncommon, and even rarer seen!

Many of the gravel trails around here are in the state parks in the
Oakland hills and there are place in which you have 24% climbs. No
technique is going to help you not to life a carbon fiber fork on a bike
geared low enough to make it up a climb like that.

If it’s a true 24% it will be grip that makes one walk not balance. Ive
climbed plenty of hills with max grades into the 20/30% area, where I’m
from originally has plenty on and off road, with my MTB background while
I’m aware folks do struggle to keep the front wheel planted, it’s not a
issue for myself as essentially I’m used to such stuff.

While I do like the downhills if I’m honest my favourite is steep technical
climbs the challenge of clearing said feckers!

Roger Merriman.

On Friday, April 30, 2021 at 3:49:15 PM UTC-7, Roger Merriman wrote:
Tom Kunich wrote:
On Thursday, April 29, 2021 at 6:03:34 PM UTC-7, Roger Merriman wrote:
Tom Kunich wrote:
On Wednesday, April 28, 2021 at 9:46:54 AM UTC-7, Roger Merriman wrote:
wrote:
On Monday, April 26, 2021 at 12:59:42 AM UTC-5, wrote:
Jay can you come down from Portland?
Tom can you come up from Oakland? 2-
We'll ride the mtn and get on the same page

Not answering for Tom or Jay. But in my travels long ago, I learned that
California is a really big state. Half of California is above San
Francisco. And its about 300+ miles up to Oregon. For fun I looked up
the distance from Portland, Jay's home, to Mt. Shasta and its 360 miles.
And from Oakland, Tom's home, its 270 miles. I'm all for bicycling.
Yeah. But when you have to drive 2-3-4 times further than you are going
to ride, its not worth it.

If you drive to MTB centres or otherwise you probably will!

Actually having checked, my normal MTB places are about 30miles out, I
rarely ride that distance on the MTB, 20 is the sweet spot, for such
terrain.

Longer tamer stuff is the Gravel bikes thing.

Due to lockdowns etc I did ride more local loops on the MTB 35 or so miles,
don’t get me wrong was fun flattening and flattering some of the rooty bits
which on the Gravel do need to pick your line, not so on the MTB which just
point at the horizon and let it float though!

But it’s hard work rolling the beasty over such distance and is totally
overkill!
There is a local ride around Lake Chabot on a trail that is DAMNED hard.
I haven't done that yet this year because of the lockdowns and the
weather has left much etc. under the shadowed areas. But usually the
gravel bikes easily outrun the trail bikes except on hard downhills. Some
of the climbs are so difficult that it takes a full suspension to keep
the wheels on the ground enough to make them. I developed a manner of
making it 90% to the top on a gravel bike and stepping off like I knew
what I was doing. But the downhills had a LOT of rain ruts cut into them
and it is difficult to ride down that stuff. The local dirt is a
clay-like powder that will harden solid as rock in the dry season and
then turn back into powder as the season rolls on. with those ruts unseen
under the powder. The super low gearing on the gravel bike isn't to climb
steep hills but to climb long distances at relatively mild inclines. A
gravel bike is so light that on a steep climb it will simply lift the
front wheel and then swing around dumping you on the ground.

That’s geometry than weight that will cause a bike to pop it’s wheel, plus
technique. I run out of grip/fitness long before the gravel or MTB lifts
it’s wheel.

Gravel bikes don’t tend to have super low gearing, just a touch below 1-1
with the most common setups either 1 or 2 by, get the odd one with near MTB
gearing but they are fairly uncommon, and even rarer seen!

Many of the gravel trails around here are in the state parks in the
Oakland hills and there are place in which you have 24% climbs. No
technique is going to help you not to life a carbon fiber fork on a bike
geared low enough to make it up a climb like that.

If it’s a true 24% it will be grip that makes one walk not balance. Ive
climbed plenty of hills with max grades into the 20/30% area, where I’m
from originally has plenty on and off road, with my MTB background while
I’m aware folks do struggle to keep the front wheel planted, it’s not a
issue for myself as essentially I’m used to such stuff.

While I do like the downhills if I’m honest my favourite is steep technical
climbs the challenge of clearing said feckers!
I guess I'm not clear what you think that you're saying. Explain how you can keep the front wheel on a road bike down on a 30% grade? It takes a VERY low gear to climb that and there is NO way of keeping the front wheel down on a road bike. Cyclocross people purposely use very large gears to keep from putting enough power to the rear wheel to lift it. That works if you want to pretend that you can ride 1200 watts output like a pro.

On Fri, 30 Apr 2021 18:17:45 -0700, Tom Kunich scribed:


While I do like the downhills if I’m honest my favourite is steep
technical climbs the challenge of clearing said feckers!
I guess I'm not clear what you think that you're saying. Explain how you
can keep the front wheel on a road bike down on a 30% grade? It takes a
VERY low gear to climb that and there is NO way of keeping the front
wheel down on a road bike.

You are arguing with yourself and tryig to make yr claim mot by changing
what was said. that said, frame geometry/setup only counts for so much,
then riding style/technique matters. Finally yo can swap to a different
set of muscles.

On 4/30/2021 9:17 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
Explain how you can keep the front wheel on a road bike down on a 30% grade? It takes a VERY low gear to climb that and there is NO way of keeping the front wheel down on a road bike.

sigh Wrong again, Tom.

(Perhaps) the steepest paved street in the world is Canton Ave. in
Pittsburgh, at 37%. (Some claim it's merely in second place, but no matter.)

Here's video of the annual Dirty Dozen race in Pittsburgh. Watch them
climb Canton Avenue:

https://youtu.be/NWXNvuCAxrU?t=6


--
- Frank Krygowski