Campy B.B. compatibility

I currently have a Campy centaur 115.5mm bottom bracket on my ride that is built from slightly oversized titanium tubing (Habanero) with Centaur double cranks. Would a Phil 110.5mm work on this bike? 115.5mm PW's are hard to come by.
Thanks.

On 8/18/2019 12:21 PM, daleb wrote:
I currently have a Campy centaur 115.5mm bottom bracket on my ride that is built from slightly oversized titanium tubing (Habanero) with Centaur double cranks. Would a Phil 110.5mm work on this bike? 115.5mm PW's are hard to come by.
Thanks.


Centaur double spec is 111mm, the alternate wide chainline
option was 115.5.

You might measure the chainline and check that your front
changer is able to move 2mm+ farther inside before buying
that 110. Front changer adjustment range is your likely
sticking point in that application and the most likely
reason the builder used the 115.5 spindle.

Yes, Phil can be shifted laterally but buying the right part
is so much better than fudging later since they all cost the
same.

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

On Sunday, August 18, 2019 at 12:43:51 PM UTC-5, AMuzi wrote:
On 8/18/2019 12:21 PM, daleb wrote:
I currently have a Campy centaur 115.5mm bottom bracket on my ride that is built from slightly oversized titanium tubing (Habanero) with Centaur double cranks. Would a Phil 110.5mm work on this bike? 115.5mm PW's are hard to come by.
Thanks.


Centaur double spec is 111mm, the alternate wide chainline
option was 115.5.

You might measure the chainline and check that your front
changer is able to move 2mm+ farther inside before buying
that 110. Front changer adjustment range is your likely
sticking point in that application and the most likely
reason the builder used the 115.5 spindle.

Yes, Phil can be shifted laterally but buying the right part
is so much better than fudging later since they all cost the
same.

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

By backing off the low limit screw and reducing the tension on the derailleur cable, I can make the chain drop off the small chain ring onto the BB, so I should have enough movement to use the shorter BB.

BTW, as I recall, I had the bike built up at your old location in Madison in the early 2000s. Has worked great but am planning to rebuild the entire bike this winter with NOS parts I've collected over the years.
Thanks.

On Sunday, August 18, 2019 at 10:43:51 AM UTC-7, AMuzi wrote:
On 8/18/2019 12:21 PM, daleb wrote:
I currently have a Campy centaur 115.5mm bottom bracket on my ride that is built from slightly oversized titanium tubing (Habanero) with Centaur double cranks. Would a Phil 110.5mm work on this bike? 115.5mm PW's are hard to come by.
Thanks.


Centaur double spec is 111mm, the alternate wide chainline
option was 115.5.

You might measure the chainline and check that your front
changer is able to move 2mm+ farther inside before buying
that 110. Front changer adjustment range is your likely
sticking point in that application and the most likely
reason the builder used the 115.5 spindle.

Yes, Phil can be shifted laterally but buying the right part
is so much better than fudging later since they all cost the
same.

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

The 115 BB was for the Campy Triple. The narrower version was for the double. But the Campy Taper was unique. I suppose he could be talking about the ISO BB which is a toothed arrangement but that wasn't clear.

On 8/18/2019 2:37 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
On Sunday, August 18, 2019 at 10:43:51 AM UTC-7, AMuzi wrote:
On 8/18/2019 12:21 PM, daleb wrote:
I currently have a Campy centaur 115.5mm bottom bracket on my ride that is built from slightly oversized titanium tubing (Habanero) with Centaur double cranks. Would a Phil 110.5mm work on this bike? 115.5mm PW's are hard to come by.
Thanks.


Centaur double spec is 111mm, the alternate wide chainline
option was 115.5.

You might measure the chainline and check that your front
changer is able to move 2mm+ farther inside before buying
that 110. Front changer adjustment range is your likely
sticking point in that application and the most likely
reason the builder used the 115.5 spindle.

Yes, Phil can be shifted laterally but buying the right part
is so much better than fudging later since they all cost the
same.

The 115 BB was for the Campy Triple. The narrower version was for the double. But the Campy Taper was unique. I suppose he could be talking about the ISO BB which is a toothed arrangement but that wasn't clear.


That's not right.

Both double and triple MIR, VEL DAY and CEN arms run on the
same ACS/ACH spindle length, viz., 111mm with optional
115.5mm for fat frame tubes.

(Record Triple was a completely different and unrelated
forging with 109mm spindle vs 103mm for the Record and
Chorus doubles)

Crank arm designers in the modern world have amazing
latitude in arm shape to keep constant chainline with
shorter and shorter spindles:
http://www.yellowjersey.org/photosfromthepast/curve.jpg

In The Olden Days arms were flat-faced and a typical triple
spindle was 123~125mm.

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

On Sunday, August 18, 2019 at 4:08:53 PM UTC-5, AMuzi wrote:
On 8/18/2019 2:37 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
On Sunday, August 18, 2019 at 10:43:51 AM UTC-7, AMuzi wrote:
On 8/18/2019 12:21 PM, daleb wrote:
I currently have a Campy centaur 115.5mm bottom bracket on my ride that is built from slightly oversized titanium tubing (Habanero) with Centaur double cranks. Would a Phil 110.5mm work on this bike? 115.5mm PW's are hard to come by.
Thanks.


Centaur double spec is 111mm, the alternate wide chainline
option was 115.5.

You might measure the chainline and check that your front
changer is able to move 2mm+ farther inside before buying
that 110. Front changer adjustment range is your likely
sticking point in that application and the most likely
reason the builder used the 115.5 spindle.

Yes, Phil can be shifted laterally but buying the right part
is so much better than fudging later since they all cost the
same.

The 115 BB was for the Campy Triple. The narrower version was for the double. But the Campy Taper was unique. I suppose he could be talking about the ISO BB which is a toothed arrangement but that wasn't clear.


That's not right.

Both double and triple MIR, VEL DAY and CEN arms run on the
same ACS/ACH spindle length, viz., 111mm with optional
115.5mm for fat frame tubes.

(Record Triple was a completely different and unrelated
forging with 109mm spindle vs 103mm for the Record and
Chorus doubles)

Crank arm designers in the modern world have amazing
latitude in arm shape to keep constant chainline with
shorter and shorter spindles:
http://www.yellowjersey.org/photosfromthepast/curve.jpg

In The Olden Days arms were flat-faced and a typical triple
spindle was 123~125mm.

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

That is my understanding, also. As this will be my third Veloce/Centaur BB replacement on this bike, I was was just wondering if the Phil BB would be worth the trouble.

On 8/18/2019 8:13 PM, daleb wrote:
On Sunday, August 18, 2019 at 4:08:53 PM UTC-5, AMuzi wrote:
On 8/18/2019 2:37 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
On Sunday, August 18, 2019 at 10:43:51 AM UTC-7, AMuzi wrote:
On 8/18/2019 12:21 PM, daleb wrote:
I currently have a Campy centaur 115.5mm bottom bracket on my ride that is built from slightly oversized titanium tubing (Habanero) with Centaur double cranks. Would a Phil 110.5mm work on this bike? 115.5mm PW's are hard to come by.
Thanks.


Centaur double spec is 111mm, the alternate wide chainline
option was 115.5.

You might measure the chainline and check that your front
changer is able to move 2mm+ farther inside before buying
that 110. Front changer adjustment range is your likely
sticking point in that application and the most likely
reason the builder used the 115.5 spindle.

Yes, Phil can be shifted laterally but buying the right part
is so much better than fudging later since they all cost the
same.

The 115 BB was for the Campy Triple. The narrower version was for the double. But the Campy Taper was unique. I suppose he could be talking about the ISO BB which is a toothed arrangement but that wasn't clear.


That's not right.

Both double and triple MIR, VEL DAY and CEN arms run on the
same ACS/ACH spindle length, viz., 111mm with optional
115.5mm for fat frame tubes.

(Record Triple was a completely different and unrelated
forging with 109mm spindle vs 103mm for the Record and
Chorus doubles)

Crank arm designers in the modern world have amazing
latitude in arm shape to keep constant chainline with
shorter and shorter spindles:
http://www.yellowjersey.org/photosfromthepast/curve.jpg

In The Olden Days arms were flat-faced and a typical triple
spindle was 123~125mm.


That is my understanding, also. As this will be my third Veloce/Centaur BB replacement on this bike, I was was just wondering if the Phil BB would be worth the trouble.


What's the failure mode?

Since these units were made about ten years ago, popping off
the seals to fill with grease might be a good installation
step if you see bearing contamination on yours.

Phil products are first rate, no complaints whatsoever and
we've seen absolutely mind-boggling service histories[1].
Phil of course have some measurable failure rate but it's
niggling compared to everyone else. For People Who Break
Things (you know who you are) Phil can be a cost effective
reliable alternate.


[1] Two customers went from Point Barrow to Tierra del Fuego
on a Phil equipped Santana tandem over 2-1/2 years. They
consumed three 48-spoke rims on the same Phil cassette hub
which was fine, having done everything including riding
mostly submerged for about a week in the Amazon.


--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

On Sunday, August 18, 2019 at 12:21:53 PM UTC-5, daleb wrote:
I currently have a Campy centaur 115.5mm bottom bracket on my ride that is built from slightly oversized titanium tubing (Habanero) with Centaur double cranks. Would a Phil 110.5mm work on this bike? 115.5mm PW's are hard to come by.
Thanks.

I'd take Andy's comments into consideration. But, if you have a 115.5mm Campagnolo bottom bracket, why not just put another one in if you want. Why F around with Phil Wood. I know some people worship their crap. I'm not one of them. See links below. Just use Campagnolo bottom brackets with Campagnolo cranksets. Life is easier and better if you don't make up and imagine fictitious problems.

https://planetcyclery.com/campagnolo...SABEgL2DPD_BwE
$23.95 for Veloce 115.5mm. This seems real simple doesn't it.


https://www.chainreactioncycles.com/us/en/campagnolo-centaur-tapered-bottom-bracket/rp-prod165441?gs=1&sku=sku611166&pgrid=54137515364&pt aid=pla-431312527100&utm_source=google&utm_term=&utm_campa ign=PLA+All+Products&utm_medium=base&utm_content=m kwid|sVYur0OM1_dc|pcrid|253659801802|pkw||pmt||prd |611166US&gclid=EAIaIQobChMI04Dqo4uN5AIVlR-tBh18SgduEAQYAyABEgJG_fD_BwE
Both Centaur lengths. 111 and 115. Get whatever size you want. Same length, or shorter if you want to reduce Q factor. Campagnolo brand, so you know it works right.

On Sunday, August 18, 2019 at 2:02:07 PM UTC-5, wrote:
On Sunday, August 18, 2019 at 12:21:53 PM UTC-5, daleb wrote:
I currently have a Campy centaur 115.5mm bottom bracket on my ride that is built from slightly oversized titanium tubing (Habanero) with Centaur double cranks. Would a Phil 110.5mm work on this bike? 115.5mm PW's are hard to come by.
Thanks.

I'd take Andy's comments into consideration. But, if you have a 115.5mm Campagnolo bottom bracket, why not just put another one in if you want. Why F around with Phil Wood. I know some people worship their crap. I'm not one of them. See links below. Just use Campagnolo bottom brackets with Campagnolo cranksets. Life is easier and better if you don't make up and imagine fictitious problems.

https://planetcyclery.com/campagnolo...SABEgL2DPD_BwE
$23.95 for Veloce 115.5mm. This seems real simple doesn't it.


https://www.chainreactioncycles.com/us/en/campagnolo-centaur-tapered-bottom-bracket/rp-prod165441?gs=1&sku=sku611166&pgrid=54137515364&pt aid=pla-431312527100&utm_source=google&utm_term=&utm_campa ign=PLA+All+Products&utm_medium=base&utm_content=m kwid|sVYur0OM1_dc|pcrid|253659801802|pkw||pmt||prd |611166US&gclid=EAIaIQobChMI04Dqo4uN5AIVlR-tBh18SgduEAQYAyABEgJG_fD_BwE
Both Centaur lengths. 111 and 115. Get whatever size you want. Same length, or shorter if you want to reduce Q factor. Campagnolo brand, so you know it works right.



https://www.wiggle.com/campagnolo-ce...ottom-bracket/
Here is another link to both Centaur lengths. 111 and 115mm.

On Sunday, August 18, 2019 at 2:07:18 PM UTC-5, wrote:
On Sunday, August 18, 2019 at 2:02:07 PM UTC-5, wrote:
On Sunday, August 18, 2019 at 12:21:53 PM UTC-5, daleb wrote:
I currently have a Campy centaur 115.5mm bottom bracket on my ride that is built from slightly oversized titanium tubing (Habanero) with Centaur double cranks. Would a Phil 110.5mm work on this bike? 115.5mm PW's are hard to come by.
Thanks.

I'd take Andy's comments into consideration. But, if you have a 115.5mm Campagnolo bottom bracket, why not just put another one in if you want. Why F around with Phil Wood. I know some people worship their crap. I'm not one of them. See links below. Just use Campagnolo bottom brackets with Campagnolo cranksets. Life is easier and better if you don't make up and imagine fictitious problems.

https://planetcyclery.com/campagnolo...SABEgL2DPD_BwE
$23.95 for Veloce 115.5mm. This seems real simple doesn't it.


https://www.chainreactioncycles.com/us/en/campagnolo-centaur-tapered-bottom-bracket/rp-prod165441?gs=1&sku=sku611166&pgrid=54137515364&pt aid=pla-431312527100&utm_source=google&utm_term=&utm_campa ign=PLA+All+Products&utm_medium=base&utm_content=m kwid|sVYur0OM1_dc|pcrid|253659801802|pkw||pmt||prd |611166US&gclid=EAIaIQobChMI04Dqo4uN5AIVlR-tBh18SgduEAQYAyABEgJG_fD_BwE
Both Centaur lengths. 111 and 115. Get whatever size you want. Same length, or shorter if you want to reduce Q factor. Campagnolo brand, so you know it works right.



https://www.wiggle.com/campagnolo-ce...ottom-bracket/
Here is another link to both Centaur lengths. 111 and 115mm.


https://www.sigmasports.com/item/Cam...m-Bracket/20PY
And another link to both Centaur lengths. 111 and 115mm.


https://www.modernbike.com/campagnol...bottom-bracket
115mm Centaur.

https://www.modernbike.com/campagnol...bottom-bracket
111mm Centaur.