Heine on inflation

On Thu, 10 Mar 2016 21:43:17 -0800 (PST),
wrote:
I would never ride on lame-ass tires like that!

While you are free to ride the tires of your choice, of course, what is
it about Grand Bois tires you consider "lame-ass?"

Joerg wrote:

On 2016-03-10 09:08, sms wrote:
On 3/10/2016 5:03 AM, AMuzi wrote:
https://janheine.wordpress.com/

Good article, it dispels the myth that tire pressure doesn't matter and
that the sidewall will support the tire regardless of the pressure.


However, there is stuff in there that I disagree with.


What is not really true, in many cases, is that the reduced rolling
resistance of higher pressure tires is offset by vibration losses. If
the bicycle has suspension, then these vibration losses are not present.


Not really. My full suspension MTB vibrates like crazy on some sections
of trail. This is because you have to run with fairly high pressure in
the shocks for the other more gnarly secitions so you won't bottom out.

something is quite wrong or your vibrates like crazy is my minor
jiggles, I have a Trance not a high end one, but certinly with hans
dampf tyres it makes trails like that smooth. The CX bike I have on
those sort of trails does Vibrate as you'd imagine but not the MTB.

I run the suspention to the recomended pressure for my weight. I run the
tyres around the 30PSI mark which is what feels right for me.

And of course on smooth roads, the vibration losses are minimal even
without suspension.

For example, my Dahon and my Bromptons both have suspension to reduce
vibration transmitted to the rider, an especially important feature on
smaller-wheeled bicycles. A great many hybrids and sport touring bikes
also have some sort of suspension, a suspension fork and/or a suspension
seat post, and of course nearly every mountain bike sold these days has
suspension.


This is the kind of vibration I have on just about every MTB ride (movie
is by another rider but same area):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l5cjAW_nrl4

It can be so bad that after an hour of this the wrists hurt a bit at
night. Something considered "normal" by local MTB riders. It is also a
good test for newly designed electronics which I have strapped to the
bike for that purpose.

Roger Merriman

On 2016-03-13 15:21, Roger Merriman wrote:
Joerg wrote:

On 2016-03-10 09:08, sms wrote:

[...]


What is not really true, in many cases, is that the reduced rolling
resistance of higher pressure tires is offset by vibration losses. If
the bicycle has suspension, then these vibration losses are not present.


Not really. My full suspension MTB vibrates like crazy on some sections
of trail. This is because you have to run with fairly high pressure in
the shocks for the other more gnarly secitions so you won't bottom out.

something is quite wrong or your vibrates like crazy is my minor
jiggles, I have a Trance not a high end one, but certinly with hans
dampf tyres it makes trails like that smooth. The CX bike I have on
those sort of trails does Vibrate as you'd imagine but not the MTB.


Look at the video and watch the guy's hands. That sort of vibration is
normal out here except in winter when the trails are soggy.


I run the suspention to the recomended pressure for my weight. I run the
tyres around the 30PSI mark which is what feels right for me.


That has resulted in too many pinch flats for me. I now run them at
55psi and with really thick tubes in there (almost motorcycle strength).
No more flats. This made the vibrations worse but not a lot. The
suspension is at 10-20% above for my weight, to prevent bottoming out on
fast stretches.

Hans Dampf is too pricey for me since I go through rear tires are the
rate of one every 500mi. But if wouldn't make much of a difference.

[...]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l5cjAW_nrl4


[...]

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

Joerg wrote:

On 2016-03-13 15:21, Roger Merriman wrote:
Joerg wrote:

On 2016-03-10 09:08, sms wrote:

[...]


What is not really true, in many cases, is that the reduced rolling
resistance of higher pressure tires is offset by vibration losses. If
the bicycle has suspension, then these vibration losses are not present.


Not really. My full suspension MTB vibrates like crazy on some sections
of trail. This is because you have to run with fairly high pressure in
the shocks for the other more gnarly secitions so you won't bottom out.

something is quite wrong or your vibrates like crazy is my minor
jiggles, I have a Trance not a high end one, but certinly with hans
dampf tyres it makes trails like that smooth. The CX bike I have on
those sort of trails does Vibrate as you'd imagine but not the MTB.


Look at the video and watch the guy's hands. That sort of vibration is
normal out here except in winter when the trails are soggy.

it's a perfectly normal trail, I have and do take CX bikes (33mm 300g
racing ralphs) on worse, the Trance flattens that sort of terrian.


I run the suspention to the recomended pressure for my weight. I run the
tyres around the 30PSI mark which is what feels right for me.


That has resulted in too many pinch flats for me. I now run them at
55psi and with really thick tubes in there (almost motorcycle strength).
No more flats. This made the vibrations worse but not a lot. The
suspension is at 10-20% above for my weight, to prevent bottoming out on
fast stretches.

there is something very wrong with your set up, if your crashing though
Rockgardens maybe but for gravelly trails with odd rock here and there.

I have never pinch flatted that bike, at 30psi I run my tyres firm
compared to most who go to 20psi ish.

again look at your set up.

Hans Dampf is too pricey for me since I go through rear tires are the
rate of one every 500mi. But if wouldn't make much of a difference.

in my experence tyres make huge differnces.

[...]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l5cjAW_nrl4


[...]

roger Merriman

On Friday, March 11, 2016 at 8:43:02 PM UTC-6, John B. wrote:
On Fri, 11 Mar 2016 07:30:56 -0800 (PST), "
wrote:

On Thursday, March 10, 2016 at 6:38:50 PM UTC-6, John B. wrote:

The guys with the beards are carrying handle bar bags that look very
similar to what Paris-Brest-Paris Randonneur riders carry.

The Paris - Brest - Paris is a 1200 km(~745 miles) ride done in 90
hours or less. The winning rider in 2015 did the distance in a bit
over 42 hours.


Ha ha. Ho ho. I have ridden Paris-Brest-Paris. 2007. My memory is fading but I do not recall anyone using handlebar bags anywhere near that size. I was with the fast group, the 80 hour. So maybe all the people with suitcases on the front of their bikes were in the 90 hour group leaving behind me.

But some do carry bags. Example:

2015 Christian Mauduit 68.20 E123 Photos:
http://ultra.ufoot.org/2015/crpbp/img-001997
E038 even seems to be carrying a backpack and finished in 74.12.
--
cheers,

John B.

That looked to be a normal sized handlebar bag. Not the suitcase size the people in the magazine pictures were using. Did not see any backpacks in the pictures. I used a Camelbak for fluids. I suppose that is a backpack.

On Saturday, March 12, 2016 at 1:03:50 PM UTC-6, Joerg wrote:
On 2016-03-11 18:42, John B. wrote:
On Fri, 11 Mar 2016 07:30:56 -0800 (PST), "
wrote:

On Thursday, March 10, 2016 at 6:38:50 PM UTC-6, John B. wrote:

The guys with the beards are carrying handle bar bags that look very
similar to what Paris-Brest-Paris Randonneur riders carry.

The Paris - Brest - Paris is a 1200 km(~745 miles) ride done in 90
hours or less. The winning rider in 2015 did the distance in a bit
over 42 hours.


Ha ha. Ho ho. I have ridden Paris-Brest-Paris. 2007. My memory is fading but I do not recall anyone using handlebar bags anywhere near that size. I was with the fast group, the 80 hour. So maybe all the people with suitcases on the front of their bikes were in the 90 hour group leaving behind me.

But some do carry bags. Example:

2015 Christian Mauduit 68.20 E123 Photos:
http://ultra.ufoot.org/2015/crpbp/img-001997
E038 even seems to be carrying a backpack and finished in 74.12.


Some also don't adhere to the Lycra "dress code":

http://www.letelegramme.fr/local/mor...11-1408687.php

It puzzles me how they can keep a 46.5km/h average. That's almost 30mph.
If I try to hold 25mph for even just an hour I am really tuckered out.

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

This is the translation I get from the story. It was a track race. Not Paris Brest Paris. He took 80 hours 3 minutes to complete PBP. The world record for upright bikes is around 30 miles for one hour. His race was 3 hours length so that is different than the 1 hour record. But recumbents are much better at speed on the flat and in a no wind situation like a track. His 29mph average for 3 hours is very believable.

"This year, he participated in the World Championships in late June in Monza in Italy on the race track. Malric 2ede finished the race in 3 hours, à46,5km / h average."

On 2016-03-13 19:27, Phil W Lee wrote:
Joerg considered Sun, 13 Mar 2016
07:47:03 -0700 the perfect time to write:

On 2016-03-12 16:37, Phil W Lee wrote:
Joerg considered Sat, 12 Mar 2016
11:04:00 -0800 the perfect time to write:

On 2016-03-11 18:42, John B. wrote:
On Fri, 11 Mar 2016 07:30:56 -0800 (PST), "
wrote:

On Thursday, March 10, 2016 at 6:38:50 PM UTC-6, John B. wrote:

The guys with the beards are carrying handle bar bags that look very
similar to what Paris-Brest-Paris Randonneur riders carry.

The Paris - Brest - Paris is a 1200 km(~745 miles) ride done in 90
hours or less. The winning rider in 2015 did the distance in a bit
over 42 hours.


Ha ha. Ho ho. I have ridden Paris-Brest-Paris. 2007. My memory is fading but I do not recall anyone using handlebar bags anywhere near that size. I was with the fast group, the 80 hour. So maybe all the people with suitcases on the front of their bikes were in the 90 hour group leaving behind me.

But some do carry bags. Example:

2015 Christian Mauduit 68.20 E123 Photos:
http://ultra.ufoot.org/2015/crpbp/img-001997
E038 even seems to be carrying a backpack and finished in 74.12.


Some also don't adhere to the Lycra "dress code":

http://www.letelegramme.fr/local/mor...11-1408687.php

It puzzles me how they can keep a 46.5km/h average. That's almost 30mph.
If I try to hold 25mph for even just an hour I am really tuckered out.


That speed is the one he achieved in the race at Monza, on the motor
racing circuit, not in the PBP, and was only over 3 hours. Note he
uses a recumbent, which is far more efficient than a UCIcle.
To achieve that speed in the PBP would be phenomenal, and would give a
finishing time in the order of 26 hrs 27 min. Google translate is
unclear on whether he used a fairing in the PBP (although he clearly
didn't in the race at Monza), although it gives his time for that as
80hr3min (which averages 15.3654km/h), so not particularly fast for a
serious sporting rider on a recumbent in the PBP. They give the
distance as 1260km (maybe that's what he measured). The official PBP
website states 1230km, which splits the difference between the 1200
quoted above (which corresponds with the original distance) and that
given for the rider in that article, so is probably the most accurate.
But the speed you have to achieve to finish in under the 90 hour limit
is only 13.667 km/h, so nobody averaged over 40km/h - even that would
have them finishing in 30h45m.


Hmm, considering it's not in the Alps that should be easy.

You don't need mountains to have a large total climb and descent - a
lot of short hills will have the same overall effect. According to
some riders who've ridden such events, the constant undulations are
actually worse, as you can't establish a rhythm. Of course, that may
depend on what you've trained for.


Not at all the same effect. For example, there is an MTB trail out to
the west that has serious undulations. But short enough so you can
"bomb" down and then let it roll up the other side. IOW those
undulations have hardly any effect on the average speed. This is also
what my Cateye Padrone says. On longer roads in this same area that
isn't possible for the simple reason that even if you didn't mind
exceeding 50mph (I do mind) you would smack into cross traffic at the
bottom of the hill. That wouldn't only be not smart, it would be
potentially lethal. Same with a front tire blowout at 50mph.


It's well
below my usual average speed where I only stop because I reached a
destination. This would allow the occasional stop at a nice pub,

But the time INCLUDES those stops for food, drink, sleep, (if any),
toilet needs, and running repairs (to either rider or bike).


Hey, you didn't mention that :-)

In that case I'm out, at least without a ton of training.


preferably one with Belgian ales. But France is too far away.

Excuses, excuses. People go to ride in that event from all over the
world, and it's only once every 4 years, so you have plenty of time to
plan and do the qualifying rides to get a place for 2019.
If you reckon it's so easy, why not go along to set a record and gain
some fame.


With the above new information you just made it not so easy.


Even the 42h26 of the winning rider is just under 28.99 km/h average,
and that's the amateur record (the pro record is 38h55m, but over an
easier course, in 1951 - the last time it was accredited as a pro
race).


I could not hold that speed for such a long time.

Exactly.
The distance is great enough that it's not possible to do it on the
energy you can store in your body in a form that can be released fast
enough. The limit is rather how fast you can convert what you eat
into usable energy in the muscles. You can only convert fat at less
than half the rate of energy consumption needed to ride at that speed.


To me riding is supposed to be fun. I do not enjoy hammering up hills
with a pain-contorted face such as I often see with the Lycra-clad folks
out here.



1230/90 isn't that complicated, nor is 1230/30.


Not sure what those numbers mean.

1230 is the distance in kilometers, 90 is the time limit in hours, 30
is one of the speeds (in km/h) that was being discussed.
I thought you understood science?


Good scientists place units behind their numbers. I always do. Thought
you'd know that, stating to have studied at Cambridge.


Although that's a day and night average, including all stops, on
country lanes, with mostly dynamo headlights.
So it seems that a 30km/h average over 1230km of real, varied roads,
is not actually possible.


It would certainly be impossible for me. One needs to know one's limits.

Well, that's the point I'm making - it seems to be impossible for
ANYONE, at least so far - and it would take a considerable gain over
the current record to achieve it. A very suspiciously large gain, in
fact, unless by some freak of meteorology a weather system passing at
exactly the right time gave you good tailwinds both ways, but without
dropping much, if any, rain.

... Knocking over 1h26m off last year's winning
time (the amateur record) would be a pretty amazing feat though, even
if there was a major difference in weather), never mind achieving
30mph (which would need more than twice the sustained power). Maybe
possible with motor pacing, I suppose - if you can avoid falling
asleep and running into your pace vehicle. 25h37.5m staring at the
back of a pace vehicle is going to be more than a little hypnotic. And
it would be cheating anyway.


I don't even like following another cyclist closer than the usual
two-second safety distance.

As for falling asleep while cycling that has happened to me as a kid. On
the way to school, was a long night before, sleep deprivation. I woke up
when the bike shook on the turf and by that time I was way off the bike
path. Got it back on without crashing, barely.

Apparently, hallucinating on the 3rd night is regarded as "normal" in
that event. The mental challenge is probably even greater than the
physical one, which is saying a lot.
It starts in the afternoon, so only the very fastest riders manage to
experience only two nights of riding - by 60 hours, dawn is breaking
after the third night.

The UK equivalent, London-Edinburgh-London, is even further (1392km on
the 2013 route) but you get an additional 10 hours to complete it
(another 10 hours of suffering - oh joy!).


Those races are certainly not for me. Several days of pain, major travel
expense and time, only to have a trophy to show for it or most often not
even that? Nah.


Anyone who achieves a timed finish in either event has my deepest
admiration, even if I do think they are masochistic lunatics
Post event depression is also apparently commonplace, as enormous
preparation and training needs to be undertaken before being ready for
such an event (PBP insist on qualification by completing events of
200, 300, 400 and 600km in the year of the PBP being entered, although
LEL simply recommend that riders be accustomed to long distance
riding). You'd have to be crazy not to treat that as an absolute
minimum requirement though. But once you've done it - what next? Even
if you ride both events, that's a two year wait, so you can hardly (in
the weeks after completion) regard either as training for the next.

Both are explicitly endurance challenges not races, although in both
events there is a certain amount of competitiveness to achieve a fast
time, as can be expected.
In particular, results are not published by the organisers in
finishing or completion time order, but by entry number or name
(alphabetical), to avoid any problems or challenges over how the event
is classified for all sorts of legal, insurance, or competition
regulation reasons.


That's a fair handling of the scores because all finishers shall be
admired. I still do not see much sense in performing such a torture
ride. At least not for me.

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

On 2016-03-13 21:57, Roger Merriman wrote:
Joerg wrote:

On 2016-03-13 15:21, Roger Merriman wrote:
Joerg wrote:

On 2016-03-10 09:08, sms wrote:

[...]


What is not really true, in many cases, is that the reduced rolling
resistance of higher pressure tires is offset by vibration losses. If
the bicycle has suspension, then these vibration losses are not present.


Not really. My full suspension MTB vibrates like crazy on some sections
of trail. This is because you have to run with fairly high pressure in
the shocks for the other more gnarly secitions so you won't bottom out.

something is quite wrong or your vibrates like crazy is my minor
jiggles, I have a Trance not a high end one, but certinly with hans
dampf tyres it makes trails like that smooth. The CX bike I have on
those sort of trails does Vibrate as you'd imagine but not the MTB.


Look at the video and watch the guy's hands. That sort of vibration is
normal out here except in winter when the trails are soggy.

it's a perfectly normal trail, I have and do take CX bikes (33mm 300g
racing ralphs) on worse, the Trance flattens that sort of terrian.


Trance? What's that and how does it flatten tarrain? I want some of it :-)


I run the suspention to the recomended pressure for my weight. I run the
tyres around the 30PSI mark which is what feels right for me.


That has resulted in too many pinch flats for me. I now run them at
55psi and with really thick tubes in there (almost motorcycle strength).
No more flats. This made the vibrations worse but not a lot. The
suspension is at 10-20% above for my weight, to prevent bottoming out on
fast stretches.

there is something very wrong with your set up, if your crashing though
Rockgardens maybe but for gravelly trails with odd rock here and there.

I have never pinch flatted that bike, at 30psi I run my tyres firm
compared to most who go to 20psi ish.

again look at your set up.


Like what on there?

The only reason I carry a patch kit is for other riders. They ride in
the 20-30psi range and get lots of flats.

Some of them laugh at my thick tube plus tire liner plus rubber sleeve
setup. Until ... pshhheeeooouuu.


Hans Dampf is too pricey for me since I go through rear tires are the
rate of one every 500mi. But if wouldn't make much of a difference.

in my experence tyres make huge differnces.


They do but only if you can find some with sturdy thick sidewalls. The
only 29" tire that came even close cost $80-90. I asked my bike dealer
if that would last more than 500mi. "Nope, not where you ride". The
sturdiest tire I ever had is also the cheapest: Maxxis 1040N, $12.
Unfortunately they do not make 29" versions of it.

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

On Mon, 14 Mar 2016 09:25:15 -0700, Joerg
wrote:

On 2016-03-13 19:27, Phil W Lee wrote:
Joerg considered Sun, 13 Mar 2016
07:47:03 -0700 the perfect time to write:

On 2016-03-12 16:37, Phil W Lee wrote:
Joerg considered Sat, 12 Mar 2016
11:04:00 -0800 the perfect time to write:

On 2016-03-11 18:42, John B. wrote:
On Fri, 11 Mar 2016 07:30:56 -0800 (PST), "
wrote:

On Thursday, March 10, 2016 at 6:38:50 PM UTC-6, John B. wrote:

The guys with the beards are carrying handle bar bags that look very
similar to what Paris-Brest-Paris Randonneur riders carry.

The Paris - Brest - Paris is a 1200 km(~745 miles) ride done in 90
hours or less. The winning rider in 2015 did the distance in a bit
over 42 hours.


Ha ha. Ho ho. I have ridden Paris-Brest-Paris. 2007. My memory is fading but I do not recall anyone using handlebar bags anywhere near that size. I was with the fast group, the 80 hour. So maybe all the people with suitcases on the front of their bikes were in the 90 hour group leaving behind me.

But some do carry bags. Example:

2015 Christian Mauduit 68.20 E123 Photos:
http://ultra.ufoot.org/2015/crpbp/img-001997
E038 even seems to be carrying a backpack and finished in 74.12.


Some also don't adhere to the Lycra "dress code":

http://www.letelegramme.fr/local/mor...11-1408687.php

It puzzles me how they can keep a 46.5km/h average. That's almost 30mph.
If I try to hold 25mph for even just an hour I am really tuckered out.


That speed is the one he achieved in the race at Monza, on the motor
racing circuit, not in the PBP, and was only over 3 hours. Note he
uses a recumbent, which is far more efficient than a UCIcle.
To achieve that speed in the PBP would be phenomenal, and would give a
finishing time in the order of 26 hrs 27 min. Google translate is
unclear on whether he used a fairing in the PBP (although he clearly
didn't in the race at Monza), although it gives his time for that as
80hr3min (which averages 15.3654km/h), so not particularly fast for a
serious sporting rider on a recumbent in the PBP. They give the
distance as 1260km (maybe that's what he measured). The official PBP
website states 1230km, which splits the difference between the 1200
quoted above (which corresponds with the original distance) and that
given for the rider in that article, so is probably the most accurate.
But the speed you have to achieve to finish in under the 90 hour limit
is only 13.667 km/h, so nobody averaged over 40km/h - even that would
have them finishing in 30h45m.


Hmm, considering it's not in the Alps that should be easy.

You don't need mountains to have a large total climb and descent - a
lot of short hills will have the same overall effect. According to
some riders who've ridden such events, the constant undulations are
actually worse, as you can't establish a rhythm. Of course, that may
depend on what you've trained for.


Not at all the same effect. For example, there is an MTB trail out to
the west that has serious undulations. But short enough so you can
"bomb" down and then let it roll up the other side. IOW those
undulations have hardly any effect on the average speed. This is also
what my Cateye Padrone says. On longer roads in this same area that
isn't possible for the simple reason that even if you didn't mind
exceeding 50mph (I do mind) you would smack into cross traffic at the
bottom of the hill. That wouldn't only be not smart, it would be
potentially lethal. Same with a front tire blowout at 50mph.


I suspect that the interpretation of "undulations" is the essence
here. Undulations that don't require down shifting more then one cog
probably don't cause problems but the "many short hills" that was
mentioned might very well have an effect on average speed.


It's well
below my usual average speed where I only stop because I reached a
destination. This would allow the occasional stop at a nice pub,

But the time INCLUDES those stops for food, drink, sleep, (if any),
toilet needs, and running repairs (to either rider or bike).


Hey, you didn't mention that :-)

In that case I'm out, at least without a ton of training.


preferably one with Belgian ales. But France is too far away.

Excuses, excuses. People go to ride in that event from all over the
world, and it's only once every 4 years, so you have plenty of time to
plan and do the qualifying rides to get a place for 2019.
If you reckon it's so easy, why not go along to set a record and gain
some fame.


With the above new information you just made it not so easy.


Even the 42h26 of the winning rider is just under 28.99 km/h average,
and that's the amateur record (the pro record is 38h55m, but over an
easier course, in 1951 - the last time it was accredited as a pro
race).


I could not hold that speed for such a long time.

Exactly.
The distance is great enough that it's not possible to do it on the
energy you can store in your body in a form that can be released fast
enough. The limit is rather how fast you can convert what you eat
into usable energy in the muscles. You can only convert fat at less
than half the rate of energy consumption needed to ride at that speed.


To me riding is supposed to be fun. I do not enjoy hammering up hills
with a pain-contorted face such as I often see with the Lycra-clad folks
out here.



1230/90 isn't that complicated, nor is 1230/30.


Not sure what those numbers mean.

1230 is the distance in kilometers, 90 is the time limit in hours, 30
is one of the speeds (in km/h) that was being discussed.
I thought you understood science?


Good scientists place units behind their numbers. I always do. Thought
you'd know that, stating to have studied at Cambridge.


Although that's a day and night average, including all stops, on
country lanes, with mostly dynamo headlights.
So it seems that a 30km/h average over 1230km of real, varied roads,
is not actually possible.


It would certainly be impossible for me. One needs to know one's limits.

Well, that's the point I'm making - it seems to be impossible for
ANYONE, at least so far - and it would take a considerable gain over
the current record to achieve it. A very suspiciously large gain, in
fact, unless by some freak of meteorology a weather system passing at
exactly the right time gave you good tailwinds both ways, but without
dropping much, if any, rain.

... Knocking over 1h26m off last year's winning
time (the amateur record) would be a pretty amazing feat though, even
if there was a major difference in weather), never mind achieving
30mph (which would need more than twice the sustained power). Maybe
possible with motor pacing, I suppose - if you can avoid falling
asleep and running into your pace vehicle. 25h37.5m staring at the
back of a pace vehicle is going to be more than a little hypnotic. And
it would be cheating anyway.


I don't even like following another cyclist closer than the usual
two-second safety distance.

As for falling asleep while cycling that has happened to me as a kid. On
the way to school, was a long night before, sleep deprivation. I woke up
when the bike shook on the turf and by that time I was way off the bike
path. Got it back on without crashing, barely.

Apparently, hallucinating on the 3rd night is regarded as "normal" in
that event. The mental challenge is probably even greater than the
physical one, which is saying a lot.
It starts in the afternoon, so only the very fastest riders manage to
experience only two nights of riding - by 60 hours, dawn is breaking
after the third night.

The UK equivalent, London-Edinburgh-London, is even further (1392km on
the 2013 route) but you get an additional 10 hours to complete it
(another 10 hours of suffering - oh joy!).


Those races are certainly not for me. Several days of pain, major travel
expense and time, only to have a trophy to show for it or most often not
even that? Nah.


Anyone who achieves a timed finish in either event has my deepest
admiration, even if I do think they are masochistic lunatics
Post event depression is also apparently commonplace, as enormous
preparation and training needs to be undertaken before being ready for
such an event (PBP insist on qualification by completing events of
200, 300, 400 and 600km in the year of the PBP being entered, although
LEL simply recommend that riders be accustomed to long distance
riding). You'd have to be crazy not to treat that as an absolute
minimum requirement though. But once you've done it - what next? Even
if you ride both events, that's a two year wait, so you can hardly (in
the weeks after completion) regard either as training for the next.

Both are explicitly endurance challenges not races, although in both
events there is a certain amount of competitiveness to achieve a fast
time, as can be expected.
In particular, results are not published by the organisers in
finishing or completion time order, but by entry number or name
(alphabetical), to avoid any problems or challenges over how the event
is classified for all sorts of legal, insurance, or competition
regulation reasons.


That's a fair handling of the scores because all finishers shall be
admired. I still do not see much sense in performing such a torture
ride. At least not for me.

Randonneuring, or Audax, seems to be more common then most think. the
Boston - Montreal - Boston is a 1200 km. randonnée on the East Coast
and there are others. The Gold Rush Randonnée is from Davis, CA to
Goose Lake near to the Oregon border.

From what I read these people ride from 10,000 - 14,000 miles a year
and one of them, Pamela Blalock, posted in her blog that she "rode
every day except one, where I did get out for a walk. I logged 2924
kms with 41,219 meters of climbing!" while undergoing chemotherapy for
breast cancer.
--
cheers,

John B.

On 3/14/2016 9:26 PM, Phil W Lee wrote:


As you say, anyone who completes one of the 1200k+ rides is worthy of
admiration and respect, so hats off to Russel Seaton.

I agree. I have a friend who has done the PBP ride, and I admire the
feat. I did my only 200 mile day riding with him, and I decided that
was challenge enough for me!

--
- Frank Krygowski