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Ouch. This happened to me once
On 2/21/2018 9:36 AM, Joerg wrote:
On 2018-02-20 19:00, AMuzi wrote: On 2/20/2018 8:30 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote: On 2/20/2018 2:54 PM, Joerg wrote: It's not that American bike facility planners never mess up but after having lived long enough in Germany, the Netherland and the US I can rightfully say that the German bike facility planners are the worst of the three groups. By far. We've just been looking at examples of American facilities that did not work and British facilities that did not work. Jay has talked at length about the faults with many of Portland's bike facilities. (Their bike boxes, installed to reduce right hooks, instead increased right hooks greatly.) We've talked at length about Stevenage and Milton Keynes in England, towns purpose-built with state of the art separate bike facilities that don't work. I recall reading about an Ottowa, Canada cycle track that scored three car-bike crashes in its first three weeks. A Columbus, Ohio cycle track (on Summit Street) had 11 car-bike crashes in its first year of operation. The same stretch of road had only 6 car-bike crashes in the four years prior to the beginning of construction. The "bicycle highways" through London generated a cluster of crossing conflict fatalities a few years ago. Joerg, don't pretend it's just incompetent designers in America, or Germany, or Canada, or England. There are too many examples. Basic physics and fundamental principles of traffic movement argue against many of the designs you tout. And green paint or copious warning signs can't prevent crashes caused by illogical traffic interactions. +1 Andrew, you are in the perfect position because you run a bike shop and undoubtedly 95% of people coming through the door are cyclists (discount the grandparents buying a tricycle for li'l Joey). What if you'd ask every one of them for a week or so whether they prefer riding on bike paths or on roads? As with the apologists for communism who turn hands up and say, "Well, you can't make an omelette without breaking eggs" I note that there's never an omelette. Oh there is but it's always being eaten by the politically connected. Regular people must stand in line to get one, only one per family, and when it's their turn all omelettes are already gone. What if you'd ask every one of them for a week or so whether they prefer riding on bike paths or riding on bike paths or on roads? I quote Pauli, "That's so bad it's not even wrong." Joerg, you have no argument and you ought to know better. I, for one, would rather NOT ride on kiddy paths, a significant reason among many being I'm hardly ever going where one exists. "Hey Ms Customer! How about ditzing around on the kiddie path over near Mugger's Lane instead of going to work today?" pffft. I admit to absolutely hating the stupid boondoggles; I go out of my way to find another route on principle. I also avoid door-zone painted lanes and other crap of their ilk. -- Andrew Muzi www.yellowjersey.org/ Open every day since 1 April, 1971 |
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