A Cycling & bikes forum. CycleBanter.com

Go Back   Home » CycleBanter.com forum » Regional Cycling » Australia
Site Map Home Register Authors List Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read Web Partners

My latest whinge...



 
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #11  
Old May 11th 06, 07:07 AM posted to aus.bicycle
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default My latest whinge...

Bleve wrote:

Sure, but does that benefit "us" by getting more ordinary people out
playing sport?
Does it even affect grass-roots sport? My suggestion would be (no
facts to back this up, it's a belief ) that focussing on elite sport
may reduce grass-roots participation levels, but as above, that's just
a belief, I don't know if it's the case.


I've been participating in a program for the past couple of months
called "Hook in 2 Hockey". There are about 250 to 300 kids here in
Mackay participating, mostly ones who haven't played before. They learn
the basics of the game and hopefully will go on to play for many years.
It's funded by Hockey Australia, presumably from a government grant.

There's also an "active after school program" where kids can go and
learn about various sports. It's funded through an Australian Sports
Commission program. Coaches are paid $25 per hour to run hour long
sessions once per week with groups of kids.

I'm sure that Cycling Australia could develop something along the lines
of Hook in 2 Hockey and get more kids into cycling as a sport. That's if
they think that having a lot of people who will only ever ride at a D
grade or C grade level are of any benefit to the sport. I think they
are, but a lot of sports administrators and senior coaches aren't really
interested in people at that level.

Last year Mackay Hockey Assn organised an "adult beginners" course. We
ended up with far more participants than we expected, some have started
playing, others have taken up coaching. It's great for the sport but
mostly I'm happy that a few more people are comfortable with their
ability to be active on the weekend.

Peter


--
Peter McCallum
Mackay Qld AUSTRALIA
Ads
  #12  
Old May 11th 06, 07:08 AM posted to aus.bicycle
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default My latest whinge...

In aus.bicycle on Thu, 11 May 2006 15:52:17 +1000
Peter McCallum wrote:

While a lot of young players do get some sponsorship in the form of
equipment, there isn't a lot of actual cash money available from private
enterprise. When the money is available, the corporates want a clear
understanding of exactly what they are getting in return for their
contribution. It's not easy even if you are a skilled marketing guru to
get that money, let alone a parent/coach whose real interest is sport.


especially as only some sport sells.

If it's big on TV, it sells. Rules or Rugby football (although the
money's given to teams not individuals till they are seriously big),
tennis. Or if the success will feed back into sales of gear, such as
surfing or motocross. In the latter though, it's kit they get, not
assistance with travelling or other expenses.

I don't think most national level sportspeople get much sponsorship
unless they are in a TV friendly sport and are already at the top.

BUt I also don't think their success encourages more activity. What
gets people playing is the local scene, their mates, word of mouth,
schools, and so on. Plenty of friends of mine kept up hockey after
school because they liked it at school. (I didn't....) Plenty of
kids play soccer with kids clubs because their parents got them into
it or the school did. They might have fantasies of being Discovered,
but most of them know that's all it is. I know bods who play cricket
on weekends, but it's not because of the Australian team, it's because
they like cricket

I suppose a big name athlete might get people curious enough to try
that sport, but I don't think the effect is huge. I know that after
having watched a top class freestyle cyclist I'd have trouble even
thinking about bunny hopping a curb, never mind jumping on and off
walls....

Zebee
  #13  
Old May 11th 06, 07:14 AM posted to aus.bicycle
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default My latest whinge...


Bleve Wrote:
Peter McCallum wrote:
Bleve wrote:
Is there any relationship between participation rates in non-elite
levels compared to elite level success? Any good studies you know

of?
Correlation is not causation, of course
ie: Is there some connection between the amazing success of US

elite
sportspeople and the overall participation rate in sports in the US

(or
here, or anywhere?), or does Lance armstrong just get more people
watching him on TV rather than going out and racing their bikes?


I don't know about cycling but in hockey there are countries like

China
with very few players but high level elite success. They look for
athletic children who have the ability to be coached and put them

into
training to become world champions.


I think maybe the more government-controlled societies may be a bit of
a special case?
(or maybe we're the special case, being a lot more free to do what we
want? )

I think Australian sports organisations do much the same. They don't
care so much about whether you are a champion school level player at

a
particular sport but whether you have right the physical and mental
attributes. Wasn't their an Australian in the winter olympics who

came
from Bundaberg or somewhere distinctly non-snowy who was selected

for
the toboggan (or whatever) because she could run quickly over ten
metres?


Sure, but does that benefit "us" by getting more ordinary people out
playing sport?
Does it even affect grass-roots sport? My suggestion would be (no
facts to back this up, it's a belief ) that focussing on elite
sport
may reduce grass-roots participation levels, but as above, that's just
a belief, I don't know if it's the case.



This is similar to a question I keep asking myself (and hence getting
dumb answers to):

How does investment in elite sport actually benefit Australia? Apart
from the ego factor of "ooh, we won so many medals, etc."... Now, I
know that all funding doesn't have to go to things that will 'pay back'
financially, and am happy to see money go to the arts 'n such. But does
the exorbitant amount of money poured into relatively few athletes
actually benefit the country in any significant way? Are we healthier?
Are we wiser? Are we smarter? Do we get more tourists just because
we're good swimmers?

Or does my cynical side spy a touch of the Colosseum in govt's choices
of funding - "ooh... look... glorious sports to watch... let's not
worry about all the crippling social/environmental/economic issues and
watch people run around instead..."


--
eddiec

  #14  
Old May 11th 06, 07:21 AM posted to aus.bicycle
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default My latest whinge...


Peter McCallum wrote:
Bleve wrote:

Sure, but does that benefit "us" by getting more ordinary people out
playing sport?
Does it even affect grass-roots sport? My suggestion would be (no
facts to back this up, it's a belief ) that focussing on elite sport
may reduce grass-roots participation levels, but as above, that's just
a belief, I don't know if it's the case.


I've been participating in a program for the past couple of months
called "Hook in 2 Hockey". There are about 250 to 300 kids here in
Mackay participating, mostly ones who haven't played before. They learn
the basics of the game and hopefully will go on to play for many years.
It's funded by Hockey Australia, presumably from a government grant.

There's also an "active after school program" where kids can go and
learn about various sports. It's funded through an Australian Sports
Commission program. Coaches are paid $25 per hour to run hour long
sessions once per week with groups of kids.

I'm sure that Cycling Australia could develop something along the lines
of Hook in 2 Hockey and get more kids into cycling as a sport. That's if
they think that having a lot of people who will only ever ride at a D
grade or C grade level are of any benefit to the sport. I think they
are, but a lot of sports administrators and senior coaches aren't really
interested in people at that level.


We have a J-cycle program designed to do this with kids, but much less
so with adults.
I decided to do it on my own with my coaching stuff (I'm not touting
for business!) to provide support and coaching for grass-roots riders,
as you point out, senior coaches and the clubs etc pay little attention
to non junior, non elite riders. It's their loss, working with D grade
riders and seeing them improve is immensely satisfying, and a healthy D
grade bunch is great for the sport across the board. Maybe the next
Phil Anderson or Robbie McEwen will come out of it, probably not, but
they're racing, training, being involved and getting fit, which beats
posing at cafe ****** any day!

Last year Mackay Hockey Assn organised an "adult beginners" course. We
ended up with far more participants than we expected, some have started
playing, others have taken up coaching. It's great for the sport but
mostly I'm happy that a few more people are comfortable with their
ability to be active on the weekend.


This is the sort of thing that all sporting associations should be
doing, IMO.

  #15  
Old May 11th 06, 07:25 AM posted to aus.bicycle
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default My latest whinge...

Bleve wrote:
or does Lance armstrong just get more people
watching him on TV rather than going out and racing their bikes?


Yes, it is all about entertainment.

  #16  
Old May 11th 06, 07:32 AM posted to aus.bicycle
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default My latest whinge...


Tamyka Bell wrote:
Peter McCallum wrote:
snip
While a lot of young players do get some sponsorship in the form of
equipment, there isn't a lot of actual cash money available from private
enterprise. When the money is available, the corporates want a clear
understanding of exactly what they are getting in return for their
contribution. It's not easy even if you are a skilled marketing guru to
get that money, let alone a parent/coach whose real interest is sport.


True.

However if they were provided with a sponsorship proposal package on
which they could base their sponsorship requests, it'd be a lot easier
for them to get the sponsorship. Easier than doing it on their own,
anyway, and probably cheaper than implementing a massive strategy to
provide funding for this and that...


All that does is raise the bar for everyone. It's like the first home
owners grant, it just makes everything $grant more expensive. I've
seen the sponsor's side of the fence, and sponsors treat sponsorship as
advertsing (as you'd expect) except for a few (rare!) enthusiasts.

It's no suprise the hockey team gets little. It's not on TV (hockey
sucks as a spectator sport). Most small sports "suffer" from this,
mainly because they don't understand what sport is. The cure is not
begging for handouts, it's to remember that elite sport is
entertainment, and that elite sportspeople are entertainers, and if you
want someone to pay your way, you have (or should have!) to give them
something back in some form.

The rest of us play sports because we love it, need it, whatever, and
while it's nice to get a helping hand every now and then, and the
benefits for society in general are good (better overall health, people
live longer, then they burn more oil, consume more resources, and take
longer to die .. hrmmm ... ), we shouldn't rely on it.

  #17  
Old May 11th 06, 07:33 AM posted to aus.bicycle
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default My latest whinge...

Tam writes -

Given that obesity levels in Australia are pretty appalling, and getting
worse, does anyone else think that, instead of the govt spending money
so much money on elite athletes, we should probably focus on encouraging
EVERYONE to play sport?


I suspect the next big policy push will be to get individuals to take some
preventitive measures for the good of their own health and the collective
public benefit - and there may even be some tax or financial incentives
given to encourage that. I devined that from a paper presented to the Sydney
Institute a few weeks ago by Julia Gillard - and it matters not which
political party proffers it - if it has sufficient public/taxpayer appeal it
has a good chance of being adopted by whichever o.

The simple economics are that recognising those that do significantly change
their health risk profile by exercise are doing the public health system (as
well as themselves) a big favour, and recognising that is smart politics.

If you don't believe me, think about how many tv clips you have seen
recently of Howard walking, Abbott cycling, Beasley publicly losing weight
and so on. Hardly elite athletes any of them, but they see their perceived
images improving by being filmed thus.

The whole bloody country is sports mad - properly orchestrated, how many
votes would there be in pitching to that receptive audience in a country
with a climate that (mostly) is well suited to outdoor activities?

I pretty much sucked at all other sports.


Respectfully disagree Tam - you just had not found the ones you love or had
bad introductions to - its amazing if you go back to some sports later in
life, in good company and now with competant instruction, just how much the
dynamic changes for the better.

These were sports that I was never going to be brilliant at, but I
enjoyed them. Improving myself was enough. I felt no need to judge
myself against others.


This is absolutely the key point - getting dissapointed at a competitive
result is a real downer - but having a great time and doing something for
your self esteem (not to mention getting a big dose of the good old
endorphins) is what gets us out there on a regular basis - and to be of
value the activity has to be consistently undertaken at least at an aerobic
level. This is what will do really good things for the community.

So I guess I feel like there is a serious lack of funding into promoting
sport participation for everyone, and that's bad enough. But it seems
even worse that there is a continual push for elite funding, spreading
the message that sport is only for people who are really good at it.


Again respectfully disagree Tam - the AIS trained cyclists who didn't quite
make it into pro teams make great cycling coaches for us hubbards at club
level, who in turn encourage recreational cyclists, our kids and others we
come into contact with to get off the couch for a bit. IMHO its not a direct
funding thing, its an enthusiasm and encouragement thing - get competant
people showing the general population how to something safely and well will
have a big impact.

Countries that get mean about encouraging elite athletes suffer
significantly in their public sports participation - England in recent years
comes to mind - and from which country are the poms currently recruiting
their high perfomance coaches from in cricket athletics swimming et al?

And by way of further example, that recent 24hr mtb race effort of yours
will have inspired a fair bit of uplifted activity among the readers here -
so keep going well you!

best, Andrew



  #18  
Old May 11th 06, 07:34 AM posted to aus.bicycle
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default My latest whinge...

Peter McCallum wrote:

There's also an "active after school program" where kids can go and
learn about various sports. It's funded through an Australian Sports
Commission program.


And that is what is wrong with that program; it is sports orientated.
They will get far more kids if it is general, active fun orientated.
  #19  
Old May 11th 06, 07:45 AM posted to aus.bicycle
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default My latest whinge...

Andrew Price wrote:

I suspect the next big policy push will be to get individuals to take some
preventitive measures for the good of their own health and the collective
public benefit


You mispelt punative!
- and there may even be some tax or financial incentives given to encourage that.


lol. Maybe your grandkids might.

Here is a practical problem; deskjobs; are you supposed to spend two
hours each evening working out at the gym to keep fit?


I devined that from a paper presented to the Sydney
Institute a few weeks ago by Julia Gillard - and it matters not which
political party proffers it - if it has sufficient public/taxpayer appeal it
has a good chance of being adopted by whichever o.


If this sort of stuff was ever likely, then we'd have a serious bicyel
commuting network everywhere and not the share bike/pedestrian deathtraps.

Yep, I'm cynical, but when there are more bicycles sold each year than
motor vehicles and we have zip facilities, it makes it clear what is
really going to happen.




And by way of further example, that recent 24hr mtb race effort of yours
will have inspired a fair bit of uplifted activity among the readers here -
so keep going well you!


Actually, 24hr races are not encouraging people to get off their butt.
they all seem headed for elite idiots who make great TV. If these sort
of events want to encourage "active involvement" they need to cater more
for the fun rider, e.g no single track, multiple bridges, different
grades, etc.
  #20  
Old May 11th 06, 08:04 AM posted to aus.bicycle
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default My latest whinge...

On Thu, 11 May 2006 16:45:11 +1000, Terry Collins wrote:

You mispelt punative!


Did you mean punitive?

Here is a practical problem; deskjobs; are you supposed to spend two
hours each evening working out at the gym to keep fit?


I had a desk job. It was the fittest I've ever been, thanks to riding an
hour each way to get there. (uphill in the snow of course...)

Actually, 24hr races are not encouraging people to get off their butt.
they all seem headed for elite idiots who make great TV. If these sort
of events want to encourage "active involvement" they need to cater more
for the fun rider, e.g no single track, multiple bridges, different
grades, etc.


Um, no singletrack? That's the fun bit! Terry, I suggest you try one of
these events before you pass judgement. Some of the courses are quite
challenging, but most of them are only tricky if you're going fast.

If you want participation events that are easier, look at the Woodford to
Glenbrook classic, the Sydney to the Gong, and the RTA Cycle Sydney and
Big Ride. For real beginner cyclists offroad events mightn't be
appropriate. I know some who've loved it, but on road is easier to find
your cycling legs (In Centennial Park or similar, not on Parramatta Rd!).

--
Dave Hughes |
"One of the main causes of the fall of the Roman Empire was that,
lacking zero, they had no way to indicate successful termination of
their C programs." -- Robert Firth

 




Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Technical Analysis of stocks/commodities/futures markets Latest Software futa Unicycling 1 February 1st 06 01:01 PM
Armstrong's latest challenge [email protected] Racing 0 October 5th 05 02:07 PM
CSV's Latest 'decree' Hitchy Australia 21 April 29th 05 05:37 PM
Just to follow up with my latest thought Rik Van Diesel Racing 0 February 16th 05 11:17 PM
Latest Homemade Light Gags Australia 30 January 5th 05 08:43 PM


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 10:32 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ©2004-2024 CycleBanter.com.
The comments are property of their posters.