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#51
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The lone 26er in a forest full of 29ers and 27.5ers
On Thursday, March 1, 2018 at 1:54:42 AM UTC+1, jbeattie wrote:
On Wednesday, February 28, 2018 at 2:38:07 PM UTC-8, Joerg wrote: On 2018-02-28 13:57, jbeattie wrote: On Wednesday, February 28, 2018 at 1:15:40 PM UTC-8, Joerg wrote: On 2018-02-28 12:56, jbeattie wrote: On Wednesday, February 28, 2018 at 12:10:44 PM UTC-8, AMuzi wrote: On 2/28/2018 1:58 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote: On 2/28/2018 1:44 PM, jbeattie wrote: As a society, we used to have a reasonable perspective on pets. We didn't have a neurotic attachment to dogs as some sort of furry Xanax. Or some sort of furry beast that needs Xanax. See http://dogaware.com/articles/wdjanxiety.html I know a guy who began dating a rather quirky woman. The woman sort of gradually moved into his house, something he should not have let happen. Among her many quirks, she loved dogs and felt it was her mission in life to rescue one from the local pound. She "rescued" a _large_ dog with many problems. Well: The guy was forced to build a large pen for the large dog, because it wasn't really controllable, despite being on Xanax or Prosac or some such thing. And eventually, despite the pills, the dog attacked the guys dear granddaughters. Soon after that, the dog was gone. And not much later, the woman was gone too. Oh, women then. I met an old friend, an active cyclist in her late-70s, for breakfast in January. She walked into the diner with a yapping little demon and I gave her The Stare, asking, 'A dog in a restaurant?' as the clientele and my beloved waitresses quietly tried not to overreact. She very loudly exclaimed that she had paid a doctor $100 for a certificate so she can go just anywhere with it. Needless to say I'll miss her company. Play your cards right, and you can make a pretty penny. http://gorgenewscenter.com/2018/02/2...-service-dogs/ How do people say with a straight face that a dog can perform "a chest compression maneuver." Mo http://www.oregonlive.com/pacific-no...ned_woman.html Well, MY dog can give injections and perform a routine prostate exam with its nose. Even if you won't believe it, trained dogs can predict an oncoming epileptic seizure. Before something really bad happens, not when it's too late. Now who else can do that? Can you? ... It is also proficient with Turbo Tax. Nah, the tax reform through them a curve. I've had two plane flights sitting next to someone with a supposed therapy dog. I saw no therapies administered. Not so much as a back rub. The dog could have relieved the pilots, flown the aircraft and defended against the enemy at the same time: http://art.cafimg.com/images/Categor...47061gpadd.jpg I had that picture in max size on the driver side door of my old Citroen. The reaction inside passing cars with kids in the back was priceless. -- Regards, Joerg http://www.analogconsultants.com/ This post came over sans response :-) Appropriately so, because now we're meandering into other hypothetical situations involving seizure alert dogs (SADs). The science there is equivocal at best. The highest success rates have been with puppies who had no training at all, and those were based on anecdotal reports. As for adults and trained dogs, its looking like pocket-lining voodoo: http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/next/bo...re-alert-dogs/ I did a medical journal article search that produced a number of articles concluding that there was no reliable evidence that dogs can be trained to predict seizures. Dogs CAN be trained to do a lot of useful things. That's fine, but don't make dogs more magical than they are as a rationale for owning two as pets. I'm not seeing a lot of police dogs, drug sniffing dogs, sheep herding dogs or other working dogs on the MUPs. Just herds of pet dogs. -- Jay Beattie. A dog is just a dog and IMO there are too many people who have dogs who shouldn't. Not for that dog and not for the other people. My brother is a 'dog man'. He enjoys them, takes good care of them and trains them. Everytime I'm over there it a joy to see them and one could think 'I want that too'. I have no time to spend as much time with a dog as my brother does so I have no dog. A lot of people don't either but they just buy a dog anyway. Shall we start a discussion about the long almost invisible leashes? Boy the really **** me off. Lou |
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#52
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The lone 26er in a forest full of 29ers and 27.5ers
On Wednesday, February 28, 2018 at 11:40:06 PM UTC-8, wrote:
On Thursday, March 1, 2018 at 1:54:42 AM UTC+1, jbeattie wrote: On Wednesday, February 28, 2018 at 2:38:07 PM UTC-8, Joerg wrote: On 2018-02-28 13:57, jbeattie wrote: On Wednesday, February 28, 2018 at 1:15:40 PM UTC-8, Joerg wrote: On 2018-02-28 12:56, jbeattie wrote: On Wednesday, February 28, 2018 at 12:10:44 PM UTC-8, AMuzi wrote: On 2/28/2018 1:58 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote: On 2/28/2018 1:44 PM, jbeattie wrote: As a society, we used to have a reasonable perspective on pets.. We didn't have a neurotic attachment to dogs as some sort of furry Xanax. Or some sort of furry beast that needs Xanax. See http://dogaware.com/articles/wdjanxiety.html I know a guy who began dating a rather quirky woman. The woman sort of gradually moved into his house, something he should not have let happen. Among her many quirks, she loved dogs and felt it was her mission in life to rescue one from the local pound. She "rescued" a _large_ dog with many problems. Well: The guy was forced to build a large pen for the large dog, because it wasn't really controllable, despite being on Xanax or Prosac or some such thing. And eventually, despite the pills, the dog attacked the guys dear granddaughters. Soon after that, the dog was gone. And not much later, the woman was gone too. Oh, women then. I met an old friend, an active cyclist in her late-70s, for breakfast in January. She walked into the diner with a yapping little demon and I gave her The Stare, asking, 'A dog in a restaurant?' as the clientele and my beloved waitresses quietly tried not to overreact. She very loudly exclaimed that she had paid a doctor $100 for a certificate so she can go just anywhere with it. Needless to say I'll miss her company. Play your cards right, and you can make a pretty penny. http://gorgenewscenter.com/2018/02/2...-service-dogs/ How do people say with a straight face that a dog can perform "a chest compression maneuver." Mo http://www.oregonlive.com/pacific-no...ned_woman.html Well, MY dog can give injections and perform a routine prostate exam with its nose. Even if you won't believe it, trained dogs can predict an oncoming epileptic seizure. Before something really bad happens, not when it's too late. Now who else can do that? Can you? ... It is also proficient with Turbo Tax. Nah, the tax reform through them a curve. I've had two plane flights sitting next to someone with a supposed therapy dog. I saw no therapies administered. Not so much as a back rub. The dog could have relieved the pilots, flown the aircraft and defended against the enemy at the same time: http://art.cafimg.com/images/Categor...47061gpadd.jpg I had that picture in max size on the driver side door of my old Citroen. The reaction inside passing cars with kids in the back was priceless. -- Regards, Joerg http://www.analogconsultants.com/ This post came over sans response :-) Appropriately so, because now we're meandering into other hypothetical situations involving seizure alert dogs (SADs). The science there is equivocal at best. The highest success rates have been with puppies who had no training at all, and those were based on anecdotal reports. As for adults and trained dogs, its looking like pocket-lining voodoo: http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/next/bo...re-alert-dogs/ I did a medical journal article search that produced a number of articles concluding that there was no reliable evidence that dogs can be trained to predict seizures. Dogs CAN be trained to do a lot of useful things. That's fine, but don't make dogs more magical than they are as a rationale for owning two as pets. I'm not seeing a lot of police dogs, drug sniffing dogs, sheep herding dogs or other working dogs on the MUPs. Just herds of pet dogs. -- Jay Beattie. A dog is just a dog and IMO there are too many people who have dogs who shouldn't. Not for that dog and not for the other people. My brother is a 'dog man'. He enjoys them, takes good care of them and trains them. Everytime I'm over there it a joy to see them and one could think 'I want that too'. I have no time to spend as much time with a dog as my brother does so I have no dog. A lot of people don't either but they just buy a dog anyway. Shall we start a discussion about the long almost invisible leashes? Boy the really **** me off. That is a serious hazard. I have many personal anecdotes, but the most memorable was defending a case where a guy broke his neck after getting a leash wrapped up in his wheel. The dog owner was a deadbeat, so he sued the maker of his CF forks -- which not surprisingly broke after getting a leash wrapped up in the wheel. More often, though, I encounter dogs that aren't on leashes and should be. I yell at the owners as I'm being charged while climbing or descending a forest road, and the owners just stare or blandly call for the dog. The dog just keeps doing what its doing. My wife got knocked over by a big dog, which is no small issue because of her physical condition, and the response was a lame "oh, he just wants to say hello," or "he likes you" or some utter idiocy. This is in places with giant signs saying dogs must be on leashes. And again, off leash dogs have a huge environmental impact on watershed and forest animals. -- Jay Beattie. |
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The lone 26er in a forest full of 29ers and 27.5ers
On 2018-02-28 17:45, John B. wrote:
On Wed, 28 Feb 2018 10:41:14 -0800, Joerg wrote: On 2018-02-27 18:20, John B. wrote: On Tue, 27 Feb 2018 10:22:08 -0800, Joerg wrote: On 2018-02-27 07:55, sms wrote: On 2/27/2018 1:11 AM, Ned Mantei wrote: On 26-02-18 21:34, Joerg wrote: My experience is the opposite. Horses leave their poop all over but that ain't so bad. I agree. Horse droppings dry quickly, leaving only something like hay fragments on the ground. I saw no horses all day on Saturday, but lots of nice moist horse droppings. Maybe it's the fog that comes in at the coast that keeps things messy. In any case, public parks should be for self-powered activities. Equestrians can ride on private land and mess that up as much as they want. Horses with riders on them were here well before any vehicles, back in the days when only Native Americans roamed the West. We shall not take their rights away just because it is now perceived as inconvenient. In fact, under Federal law, horses and burros have a right to use public lands. As they should. In practice that is sometimes curtailed although I don't know if it would hold in court. Though it often makes sense. For example, the western section of the singletrack from Lotus to Folsom has a sign "No horses" and the switchbacks could be dangerous for horse and rider. Even mountain bikers have gone over a cliff there. I was referring to the so wild horses that are managed by the Bureau of Land Management on 26.9 million acres of public lands across 10 western states. Though the goverment take the liberty to decide which ones they will kill and thus take away their right to roam. They don't yet do that with mountain bikers :-) -- Regards, Joerg http://www.analogconsultants.com/ |
#54
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The lone 26er in a forest full of 29ers and 27.5ers
On 2018-02-28 17:51, John B. wrote:
On Wed, 28 Feb 2018 10:44:31 -0800 (PST), jbeattie wrote: On Wednesday, February 28, 2018 at 8:00:12 AM UTC-8, Joerg wrote: On 2018-02-27 18:01, jbeattie wrote: On Tuesday, February 27, 2018 at 5:02:45 PM UTC-8, Joerg wrote: On 2018-02-27 13:56, Frank Krygowski wrote: On 2/27/2018 1:59 PM, jbeattie wrote: I don't see any place for horses on popular public forest trails or unleashed dogs -- one of which nearly tackled my wife, who is not as robust as she once was. There are far, far too many dogs in the world. "A well-trained dog is a joy and a delight. An untrained dog is a damned nuisance. Most dogs are untrained." - Stewart Brand Within the last two days: A) on my mountain bike, I thought I would get run into by a large dog running illegally off-leash in our local forest preserve. The owner didn't hear me coming because she was yakking on her cell phone. She apologized, but continued allowing her dogs to run. B) Our very nice neighbors' micro-dog has yapped loudly when it saw me outside. It also yapped loudly when it didn't see me outside, because it yaps incredibly loudly any time anything catches its attention. That's true even at 7 AM. C) I spent some time with a very sweet, intelligent Golden Retriever at a friend's house. But that young dog is still too excitable to be trusted not to jump on guests. Hopefully it will calm down as it matures. I've known a very few very nice dogs. I've known a few tolerable dogs. I've known or encountered hundreds of obnoxious dogs. Unless a person lives in the country and hunts, farms or runs a ranch, I don't see the attraction. Join us and our two Labradors who are trained therapy dogs on a visit to an Alzheimer's place. Dogs can open peoples minds there like no human ever can. On of our dogs was guiding a blind woman for a while. In San Francisco, not on a ranch. How do you suppose that should be done without a dog? I was in a surgery waiting room a few years ago and some candy-striper brought in a "therapy dog" to calm the anxious family members, and all the other dogs people had smuggled into the waiting room started barking. It was like a f****** dog pound. Not calming for me. Plus, it's like forced dog petting -- you are a monster unless you pet the f****** dog and remark to the handler about what a great dog it is. Again, not calming for me. As Frank said, "working dogs" are a different animal. Guide dogs, drug sniffing dogs, herding dogs, etc. can justify their often massive carbon footprints. As for "therapy" dogs, why not cats, lizards, fish, robots? I'd take a Swedish underwear model with a vodka tonic. "The studies based on robot substitutes yielded positive results. These studies suggest the possibility of using robot substitutes for patients with Dementia, but further studies are required to better define the technique. Shibata et al., 2001 The text of the note suggest that robot therapy has the same effects on people as animal therapy and are currently conducting an experiment in a dementia care centre in Denmark. Preliminary results obtained from the 7-month clinical trial showed positive effects on elderly patients' mental health, but a larger patient sample and control group were necessary to scientifically verify the study's effects." Review; Animal-assisted interventions for elderly patients affected by dementia or psychiatric disorders: A review; (2013) 47 EJPSYR 6 762-773 If you really care about the environment, you do not own two dogs just to own two dogs -- or three or five or ten. I see goddamned dog herds on some of the MUPs. Obviosly you have never been arond a lot of people with Alzheimer's. I have, for decades. I have. My sister-in-law died of Alzheimer's. My father-in-law was in a facility for 11 years before he died. My son spent the first four years of his life running around the place. I suspect he was more therapeutic to the occupants than a dog. As an ambulance driver in the '70s and '80s, I was transporting Alzheimers patients before there was even a diagnostic criteria for the disease. And before that, I was delivering pharmaceuticals to what we euphemistically called "rest homes" starting at age seven. My father was a pharmacist, and we owned a small-town drug store. I've been seeing people with senile dementia and Alzheimers in clinical and long-term care settings since I was a kid. And what does this have to do with the over-population of dogs? There is no proof of any long-term benefit to Alzheimer's patients from dog-therapy, and other therapies are equally effective -- like people and robots, even fish. Everybody claims their dog is a therapy, companion, assist dog, generally as a dodge to get the damned thing into a restaurant or movie theater or to prove its incredible importance to society. It's the new thing to do. It's right up there with "owning a dog is just like raising a child!" Right. A Friend, who had three very lively kids, once commented that "raising kids is just like raising hunting dogs. Except I believe that the dogs learn a bit quicker." :-) I think Doris Day said that: "Until the age of 14 men mature. After that they just grow". Regarding therapy dogs not being there when you grew up that's because people just did what needed to be done. They knew of the therapeutic effect of some animals, at least where I grew up. Just like there was no formal foster child system in the old days, when a kid lost the parents neighbors just took him or her in with theirs. People took care of each other. -- Regards, Joerg http://www.analogconsultants.com/ |
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The lone 26er in a forest full of 29ers and 27.5ers
On 3/1/2018 10:33 AM, jbeattie wrote:
On Wednesday, February 28, 2018 at 11:40:06 PM UTC-8, wrote: Shall we start a discussion about the long almost invisible leashes? Boy the really **** me off. That is a serious hazard. I have many personal anecdotes, but the most memorable was defending a case where a guy broke his neck after getting a leash wrapped up in his wheel. The dog owner was a deadbeat, so he sued the maker of his CF forks -- which not surprisingly broke after getting a leash wrapped up in the wheel. More often, though, I encounter dogs that aren't on leashes and should be. I yell at the owners as I'm being charged while climbing or descending a forest road, and the owners just stare or blandly call for the dog. The dog just keeps doing what its doing. My wife got knocked over by a big dog, which is no small issue because of her physical condition, and the response was a lame "oh, he just wants to say hello," or "he likes you" or some utter idiocy. This is in places with giant signs saying dogs must be on leashes. And again, off leash dogs have a huge environmental impact on watershed and forest animals. As I've mentioned, my family and I began avid adult cycling in the 1970s in a rural southern town. Loose dogs were everywhere, bike chasing was common, and owners would yell at us if we tried to defend ourselves. ("Don't you kick my dog!!") We moved north to a much more civilized area where loose dogs are rare (except in our local forest preserve, despite the signs). Anyway, because of our 1970s experiences, my wife is pretty afraid of dogs when she's riding. So each of our bikes has a can of Halt pepper spray clipped in easy reach. It's rarely used, but it's there. If the stream is aimed well, it's pretty effective. But if I miss, I'll usually turn around on the road and go back for another shot or two. I'm training the dogs not to attack bikes. It's a service I provide to the dog owners. They should pay me. -- - Frank Krygowski |
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The lone 26er in a forest full of 29ers and 27.5ers
On Thu, 01 Mar 2018 07:58:48 -0800, Joerg
wrote: On 2018-02-28 17:51, John B. wrote: On Wed, 28 Feb 2018 10:44:31 -0800 (PST), jbeattie wrote: On Wednesday, February 28, 2018 at 8:00:12 AM UTC-8, Joerg wrote: On 2018-02-27 18:01, jbeattie wrote: On Tuesday, February 27, 2018 at 5:02:45 PM UTC-8, Joerg wrote: On 2018-02-27 13:56, Frank Krygowski wrote: On 2/27/2018 1:59 PM, jbeattie wrote: I don't see any place for horses on popular public forest trails or unleashed dogs -- one of which nearly tackled my wife, who is not as robust as she once was. There are far, far too many dogs in the world. "A well-trained dog is a joy and a delight. An untrained dog is a damned nuisance. Most dogs are untrained." - Stewart Brand Within the last two days: A) on my mountain bike, I thought I would get run into by a large dog running illegally off-leash in our local forest preserve. The owner didn't hear me coming because she was yakking on her cell phone. She apologized, but continued allowing her dogs to run. B) Our very nice neighbors' micro-dog has yapped loudly when it saw me outside. It also yapped loudly when it didn't see me outside, because it yaps incredibly loudly any time anything catches its attention. That's true even at 7 AM. C) I spent some time with a very sweet, intelligent Golden Retriever at a friend's house. But that young dog is still too excitable to be trusted not to jump on guests. Hopefully it will calm down as it matures. I've known a very few very nice dogs. I've known a few tolerable dogs. I've known or encountered hundreds of obnoxious dogs. Unless a person lives in the country and hunts, farms or runs a ranch, I don't see the attraction. Join us and our two Labradors who are trained therapy dogs on a visit to an Alzheimer's place. Dogs can open peoples minds there like no human ever can. On of our dogs was guiding a blind woman for a while. In San Francisco, not on a ranch. How do you suppose that should be done without a dog? I was in a surgery waiting room a few years ago and some candy-striper brought in a "therapy dog" to calm the anxious family members, and all the other dogs people had smuggled into the waiting room started barking. It was like a f****** dog pound. Not calming for me. Plus, it's like forced dog petting -- you are a monster unless you pet the f****** dog and remark to the handler about what a great dog it is. Again, not calming for me. As Frank said, "working dogs" are a different animal. Guide dogs, drug sniffing dogs, herding dogs, etc. can justify their often massive carbon footprints. As for "therapy" dogs, why not cats, lizards, fish, robots? I'd take a Swedish underwear model with a vodka tonic. "The studies based on robot substitutes yielded positive results. These studies suggest the possibility of using robot substitutes for patients with Dementia, but further studies are required to better define the technique. Shibata et al., 2001 The text of the note suggest that robot therapy has the same effects on people as animal therapy and are currently conducting an experiment in a dementia care centre in Denmark. Preliminary results obtained from the 7-month clinical trial showed positive effects on elderly patients' mental health, but a larger patient sample and control group were necessary to scientifically verify the study's effects." Review; Animal-assisted interventions for elderly patients affected by dementia or psychiatric disorders: A review; (2013) 47 EJPSYR 6 762-773 If you really care about the environment, you do not own two dogs just to own two dogs -- or three or five or ten. I see goddamned dog herds on some of the MUPs. Obviosly you have never been arond a lot of people with Alzheimer's. I have, for decades. I have. My sister-in-law died of Alzheimer's. My father-in-law was in a facility for 11 years before he died. My son spent the first four years of his life running around the place. I suspect he was more therapeutic to the occupants than a dog. As an ambulance driver in the '70s and '80s, I was transporting Alzheimers patients before there was even a diagnostic criteria for the disease. And before that, I was delivering pharmaceuticals to what we euphemistically called "rest homes" starting at age seven. My father was a pharmacist, and we owned a small-town drug store. I've been seeing people with senile dementia and Alzheimers in clinical and long-term care settings since I was a kid. And what does this have to do with the over-population of dogs? There is no proof of any long-term benefit to Alzheimer's patients from dog-therapy, and other therapies are equally effective -- like people and robots, even fish. Everybody claims their dog is a therapy, companion, assist dog, generally as a dodge to get the damned thing into a restaurant or movie theater or to prove its incredible importance to society. It's the new thing to do. It's right up there with "owning a dog is just like raising a child!" Right. A Friend, who had three very lively kids, once commented that "raising kids is just like raising hunting dogs. Except I believe that the dogs learn a bit quicker." :-) I think Doris Day said that: "Until the age of 14 men mature. After that they just grow". Regarding therapy dogs not being there when you grew up that's because people just did what needed to be done. They knew of the therapeutic effect of some animals, at least where I grew up. I'm not sure about that. At least I can't remember anything regarding the "therapeutic effect of some animals". In fact, as I remember it, animals generally were kept because they "worked for a living". If you stored any sort of animal feed (other then hay) in the barn you probably had "barn cats", in other words cats that lived in the barn. Why barn cats? Well because if you store grain you have mice and rats and cats kill and eat mice and rats. If you wanted to drink milk you had a cow, and so on. But a critter kept just so you could pet it or it could lay it's head in your lap? I can't remember a single instance. Just like there was no formal foster child system in the old days, when a kid lost the parents neighbors just took him or her in with theirs. People took care of each other. -- Cheers, John B. |
#57
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The lone 26er in a forest full of 29ers and 27.5ers
On 2018-03-01 13:45, John B. wrote:
On Thu, 01 Mar 2018 07:58:48 -0800, Joerg wrote: On 2018-02-28 17:51, John B. wrote: On Wed, 28 Feb 2018 10:44:31 -0800 (PST), jbeattie wrote: On Wednesday, February 28, 2018 at 8:00:12 AM UTC-8, Joerg wrote: On 2018-02-27 18:01, jbeattie wrote: On Tuesday, February 27, 2018 at 5:02:45 PM UTC-8, Joerg wrote: On 2018-02-27 13:56, Frank Krygowski wrote: On 2/27/2018 1:59 PM, jbeattie wrote: I don't see any place for horses on popular public forest trails or unleashed dogs -- one of which nearly tackled my wife, who is not as robust as she once was. There are far, far too many dogs in the world. "A well-trained dog is a joy and a delight. An untrained dog is a damned nuisance. Most dogs are untrained." - Stewart Brand Within the last two days: A) on my mountain bike, I thought I would get run into by a large dog running illegally off-leash in our local forest preserve. The owner didn't hear me coming because she was yakking on her cell phone. She apologized, but continued allowing her dogs to run. B) Our very nice neighbors' micro-dog has yapped loudly when it saw me outside. It also yapped loudly when it didn't see me outside, because it yaps incredibly loudly any time anything catches its attention. That's true even at 7 AM. C) I spent some time with a very sweet, intelligent Golden Retriever at a friend's house. But that young dog is still too excitable to be trusted not to jump on guests. Hopefully it will calm down as it matures. I've known a very few very nice dogs. I've known a few tolerable dogs. I've known or encountered hundreds of obnoxious dogs. Unless a person lives in the country and hunts, farms or runs a ranch, I don't see the attraction. Join us and our two Labradors who are trained therapy dogs on a visit to an Alzheimer's place. Dogs can open peoples minds there like no human ever can. On of our dogs was guiding a blind woman for a while. In San Francisco, not on a ranch. How do you suppose that should be done without a dog? I was in a surgery waiting room a few years ago and some candy-striper brought in a "therapy dog" to calm the anxious family members, and all the other dogs people had smuggled into the waiting room started barking. It was like a f****** dog pound. Not calming for me. Plus, it's like forced dog petting -- you are a monster unless you pet the f****** dog and remark to the handler about what a great dog it is. Again, not calming for me. As Frank said, "working dogs" are a different animal. Guide dogs, drug sniffing dogs, herding dogs, etc. can justify their often massive carbon footprints. As for "therapy" dogs, why not cats, lizards, fish, robots? I'd take a Swedish underwear model with a vodka tonic. "The studies based on robot substitutes yielded positive results. These studies suggest the possibility of using robot substitutes for patients with Dementia, but further studies are required to better define the technique. Shibata et al., 2001 The text of the note suggest that robot therapy has the same effects on people as animal therapy and are currently conducting an experiment in a dementia care centre in Denmark. Preliminary results obtained from the 7-month clinical trial showed positive effects on elderly patients' mental health, but a larger patient sample and control group were necessary to scientifically verify the study's effects." Review; Animal-assisted interventions for elderly patients affected by dementia or psychiatric disorders: A review; (2013) 47 EJPSYR 6 762-773 If you really care about the environment, you do not own two dogs just to own two dogs -- or three or five or ten. I see goddamned dog herds on some of the MUPs. Obviosly you have never been arond a lot of people with Alzheimer's. I have, for decades. I have. My sister-in-law died of Alzheimer's. My father-in-law was in a facility for 11 years before he died. My son spent the first four years of his life running around the place. I suspect he was more therapeutic to the occupants than a dog. As an ambulance driver in the '70s and '80s, I was transporting Alzheimers patients before there was even a diagnostic criteria for the disease. And before that, I was delivering pharmaceuticals to what we euphemistically called "rest homes" starting at age seven. My father was a pharmacist, and we owned a small-town drug store. I've been seeing people with senile dementia and Alzheimers in clinical and long-term care settings since I was a kid. And what does this have to do with the over-population of dogs? There is no proof of any long-term benefit to Alzheimer's patients from dog-therapy, and other therapies are equally effective -- like people and robots, even fish. Everybody claims their dog is a therapy, companion, assist dog, generally as a dodge to get the damned thing into a restaurant or movie theater or to prove its incredible importance to society. It's the new thing to do. It's right up there with "owning a dog is just like raising a child!" Right. A Friend, who had three very lively kids, once commented that "raising kids is just like raising hunting dogs. Except I believe that the dogs learn a bit quicker." :-) I think Doris Day said that: "Until the age of 14 men mature. After that they just grow". Regarding therapy dogs not being there when you grew up that's because people just did what needed to be done. They knew of the therapeutic effect of some animals, at least where I grew up. I'm not sure about that. At least I can't remember anything regarding the "therapeutic effect of some animals". In fact, as I remember it, animals generally were kept because they "worked for a living". If you stored any sort of animal feed (other then hay) in the barn you probably had "barn cats", in other words cats that lived in the barn. Why barn cats? Well because if you store grain you have mice and rats and cats kill and eat mice and rats. If you wanted to drink milk you had a cow, and so on. Same where I grew up. ... But a critter kept just so you could pet it or it could lay it's head in your lap? I can't remember a single instance. Lots of older women back then had a cat in the kitchen that sat in their lap a lot. Sometimes for more than an hour when they were knitting something. The kitchen used to be the largest room in the house where everyone generally hung out. The dog usually also had its pillow there. Many farmers had a good personal relationship with some of their horses. They spent time with them outside work. Even if it was just to smoke a pipe and not be bothered by people. Horses tend not to nag and they are pleasant to be around. Wild animals can be fun as well once they trust you enough. [...] -- Regards, Joerg http://www.analogconsultants.com/ |
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The lone 26er in a forest full of 29ers and 27.5ers
On Thursday, March 1, 2018 at 2:10:46 PM UTC-8, Joerg wrote:
On 2018-03-01 13:45, John B. wrote: On Thu, 01 Mar 2018 07:58:48 -0800, Joerg wrote: On 2018-02-28 17:51, John B. wrote: On Wed, 28 Feb 2018 10:44:31 -0800 (PST), jbeattie wrote: On Wednesday, February 28, 2018 at 8:00:12 AM UTC-8, Joerg wrote: On 2018-02-27 18:01, jbeattie wrote: On Tuesday, February 27, 2018 at 5:02:45 PM UTC-8, Joerg wrote: On 2018-02-27 13:56, Frank Krygowski wrote: On 2/27/2018 1:59 PM, jbeattie wrote: I don't see any place for horses on popular public forest trails or unleashed dogs -- one of which nearly tackled my wife, who is not as robust as she once was. There are far, far too many dogs in the world. "A well-trained dog is a joy and a delight. An untrained dog is a damned nuisance. Most dogs are untrained." - Stewart Brand Within the last two days: A) on my mountain bike, I thought I would get run into by a large dog running illegally off-leash in our local forest preserve. The owner didn't hear me coming because she was yakking on her cell phone. She apologized, but continued allowing her dogs to run. B) Our very nice neighbors' micro-dog has yapped loudly when it saw me outside. It also yapped loudly when it didn't see me outside, because it yaps incredibly loudly any time anything catches its attention. That's true even at 7 AM. C) I spent some time with a very sweet, intelligent Golden Retriever at a friend's house. But that young dog is still too excitable to be trusted not to jump on guests. Hopefully it will calm down as it matures. I've known a very few very nice dogs. I've known a few tolerable dogs. I've known or encountered hundreds of obnoxious dogs. Unless a person lives in the country and hunts, farms or runs a ranch, I don't see the attraction. Join us and our two Labradors who are trained therapy dogs on a visit to an Alzheimer's place. Dogs can open peoples minds there like no human ever can. On of our dogs was guiding a blind woman for a while. In San Francisco, not on a ranch. How do you suppose that should be done without a dog? I was in a surgery waiting room a few years ago and some candy-striper brought in a "therapy dog" to calm the anxious family members, and all the other dogs people had smuggled into the waiting room started barking. It was like a f****** dog pound. Not calming for me. Plus, it's like forced dog petting -- you are a monster unless you pet the f****** dog and remark to the handler about what a great dog it is. Again, not calming for me. As Frank said, "working dogs" are a different animal. Guide dogs, drug sniffing dogs, herding dogs, etc. can justify their often massive carbon footprints. As for "therapy" dogs, why not cats, lizards, fish, robots? I'd take a Swedish underwear model with a vodka tonic. "The studies based on robot substitutes yielded positive results. These studies suggest the possibility of using robot substitutes for patients with Dementia, but further studies are required to better define the technique. Shibata et al., 2001 The text of the note suggest that robot therapy has the same effects on people as animal therapy and are currently conducting an experiment in a dementia care centre in Denmark. Preliminary results obtained from the 7-month clinical trial showed positive effects on elderly patients' mental health, but a larger patient sample and control group were necessary to scientifically verify the study's effects." Review; Animal-assisted interventions for elderly patients affected by dementia or psychiatric disorders: A review; (2013) 47 EJPSYR 6 762-773 If you really care about the environment, you do not own two dogs just to own two dogs -- or three or five or ten. I see goddamned dog herds on some of the MUPs. Obviosly you have never been arond a lot of people with Alzheimer's. I have, for decades. I have. My sister-in-law died of Alzheimer's. My father-in-law was in a facility for 11 years before he died. My son spent the first four years of his life running around the place. I suspect he was more therapeutic to the occupants than a dog. As an ambulance driver in the '70s and '80s, I was transporting Alzheimers patients before there was even a diagnostic criteria for the disease. And before that, I was delivering pharmaceuticals to what we euphemistically called "rest homes" starting at age seven. My father was a pharmacist, and we owned a small-town drug store. I've been seeing people with senile dementia and Alzheimers in clinical and long-term care settings since I was a kid. And what does this have to do with the over-population of dogs? There is no proof of any long-term benefit to Alzheimer's patients from dog-therapy, and other therapies are equally effective -- like people and robots, even fish. Everybody claims their dog is a therapy, companion, assist dog, generally as a dodge to get the damned thing into a restaurant or movie theater or to prove its incredible importance to society. It's the new thing to do. It's right up there with "owning a dog is just like raising a child!" Right. A Friend, who had three very lively kids, once commented that "raising kids is just like raising hunting dogs. Except I believe that the dogs learn a bit quicker." :-) I think Doris Day said that: "Until the age of 14 men mature. After that they just grow". Regarding therapy dogs not being there when you grew up that's because people just did what needed to be done. They knew of the therapeutic effect of some animals, at least where I grew up. I'm not sure about that. At least I can't remember anything regarding the "therapeutic effect of some animals". In fact, as I remember it, animals generally were kept because they "worked for a living". If you stored any sort of animal feed (other then hay) in the barn you probably had "barn cats", in other words cats that lived in the barn. Why barn cats? Well because if you store grain you have mice and rats and cats kill and eat mice and rats. If you wanted to drink milk you had a cow, and so on. Same where I grew up. ... But a critter kept just so you could pet it or it could lay it's head in your lap? I can't remember a single instance. Lots of older women back then had a cat in the kitchen that sat in their lap a lot. Sometimes for more than an hour when they were knitting something. The kitchen used to be the largest room in the house where everyone generally hung out. The dog usually also had its pillow there. One of my many jobs I had as a child was taking care of an old lady who had 20 cats. She lived in one room of a tiny house with all her cats -- a frightening looking woman with crazy gray hair who was arthritic and confined mostly to bed. It was like a Dickens novel but with lots of cats. The places stunk to high heaven. -- Jay Beattie. |
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The lone 26er in a forest full of 29ers and 27.5ers
On Thu, 1 Mar 2018 11:26:33 -0500, Frank Krygowski
wrote: If the stream is aimed well, it's pretty effective. But if I miss, I'll usually turn around on the road and go back for another shot or two. I'm training the dogs not to attack bikes. It's a service I provide to the dog owners. They should pay me. I used to live on a triangle of roads that would have been a very nice short ride if there hadn't been a dog who lived in a dip on the back leg, and always made me brake just when I wanted to conserve momentum for the next climb. So when I got my first can of Halt, I went dog-hunting. I sped down the hill, the dog rushed out to attack, I fired, I missed. So when I got to the top of the hill, I turned around for another pass. Missed again. Before I got enough target practice to hit something, the dog stopped coming into range. Finally I rode by and the dog feebly lifted his head from his forepaws and emitted a dutiful "woof". He never bothered me again. I often thought that if I had a dog that chased, I'd take him out to the Mohawk-Hudson Bikeway on a holiday afternoon, tie him to a tree, and let him bark himself into a coma. -- Joy Beeson joy beeson at comcast dot net http://wlweather.net/PAGEJOY/ |
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The lone 26er in a forest full of 29ers and 27.5ers
On Thu, 01 Mar 2018 14:10:49 -0800, Joerg
wrote: On 2018-03-01 13:45, John B. wrote: On Thu, 01 Mar 2018 07:58:48 -0800, Joerg wrote: On 2018-02-28 17:51, John B. wrote: On Wed, 28 Feb 2018 10:44:31 -0800 (PST), jbeattie wrote: On Wednesday, February 28, 2018 at 8:00:12 AM UTC-8, Joerg wrote: On 2018-02-27 18:01, jbeattie wrote: On Tuesday, February 27, 2018 at 5:02:45 PM UTC-8, Joerg wrote: On 2018-02-27 13:56, Frank Krygowski wrote: On 2/27/2018 1:59 PM, jbeattie wrote: I don't see any place for horses on popular public forest trails or unleashed dogs -- one of which nearly tackled my wife, who is not as robust as she once was. There are far, far too many dogs in the world. "A well-trained dog is a joy and a delight. An untrained dog is a damned nuisance. Most dogs are untrained." - Stewart Brand Within the last two days: A) on my mountain bike, I thought I would get run into by a large dog running illegally off-leash in our local forest preserve. The owner didn't hear me coming because she was yakking on her cell phone. She apologized, but continued allowing her dogs to run. B) Our very nice neighbors' micro-dog has yapped loudly when it saw me outside. It also yapped loudly when it didn't see me outside, because it yaps incredibly loudly any time anything catches its attention. That's true even at 7 AM. C) I spent some time with a very sweet, intelligent Golden Retriever at a friend's house. But that young dog is still too excitable to be trusted not to jump on guests. Hopefully it will calm down as it matures. I've known a very few very nice dogs. I've known a few tolerable dogs. I've known or encountered hundreds of obnoxious dogs. Unless a person lives in the country and hunts, farms or runs a ranch, I don't see the attraction. Join us and our two Labradors who are trained therapy dogs on a visit to an Alzheimer's place. Dogs can open peoples minds there like no human ever can. On of our dogs was guiding a blind woman for a while. In San Francisco, not on a ranch. How do you suppose that should be done without a dog? I was in a surgery waiting room a few years ago and some candy-striper brought in a "therapy dog" to calm the anxious family members, and all the other dogs people had smuggled into the waiting room started barking. It was like a f****** dog pound. Not calming for me. Plus, it's like forced dog petting -- you are a monster unless you pet the f****** dog and remark to the handler about what a great dog it is. Again, not calming for me. As Frank said, "working dogs" are a different animal. Guide dogs, drug sniffing dogs, herding dogs, etc. can justify their often massive carbon footprints. As for "therapy" dogs, why not cats, lizards, fish, robots? I'd take a Swedish underwear model with a vodka tonic. "The studies based on robot substitutes yielded positive results. These studies suggest the possibility of using robot substitutes for patients with Dementia, but further studies are required to better define the technique. Shibata et al., 2001 The text of the note suggest that robot therapy has the same effects on people as animal therapy and are currently conducting an experiment in a dementia care centre in Denmark. Preliminary results obtained from the 7-month clinical trial showed positive effects on elderly patients' mental health, but a larger patient sample and control group were necessary to scientifically verify the study's effects." Review; Animal-assisted interventions for elderly patients affected by dementia or psychiatric disorders: A review; (2013) 47 EJPSYR 6 762-773 If you really care about the environment, you do not own two dogs just to own two dogs -- or three or five or ten. I see goddamned dog herds on some of the MUPs. Obviosly you have never been arond a lot of people with Alzheimer's. I have, for decades. I have. My sister-in-law died of Alzheimer's. My father-in-law was in a facility for 11 years before he died. My son spent the first four years of his life running around the place. I suspect he was more therapeutic to the occupants than a dog. As an ambulance driver in the '70s and '80s, I was transporting Alzheimers patients before there was even a diagnostic criteria for the disease. And before that, I was delivering pharmaceuticals to what we euphemistically called "rest homes" starting at age seven. My father was a pharmacist, and we owned a small-town drug store. I've been seeing people with senile dementia and Alzheimers in clinical and long-term care settings since I was a kid. And what does this have to do with the over-population of dogs? There is no proof of any long-term benefit to Alzheimer's patients from dog-therapy, and other therapies are equally effective -- like people and robots, even fish. Everybody claims their dog is a therapy, companion, assist dog, generally as a dodge to get the damned thing into a restaurant or movie theater or to prove its incredible importance to society. It's the new thing to do. It's right up there with "owning a dog is just like raising a child!" Right. A Friend, who had three very lively kids, once commented that "raising kids is just like raising hunting dogs. Except I believe that the dogs learn a bit quicker." :-) I think Doris Day said that: "Until the age of 14 men mature. After that they just grow". Regarding therapy dogs not being there when you grew up that's because people just did what needed to be done. They knew of the therapeutic effect of some animals, at least where I grew up. I'm not sure about that. At least I can't remember anything regarding the "therapeutic effect of some animals". In fact, as I remember it, animals generally were kept because they "worked for a living". If you stored any sort of animal feed (other then hay) in the barn you probably had "barn cats", in other words cats that lived in the barn. Why barn cats? Well because if you store grain you have mice and rats and cats kill and eat mice and rats. If you wanted to drink milk you had a cow, and so on. Same where I grew up. ... But a critter kept just so you could pet it or it could lay it's head in your lap? I can't remember a single instance. Lots of older women back then had a cat in the kitchen that sat in their lap a lot. Sometimes for more than an hour when they were knitting something. The kitchen used to be the largest room in the house where everyone generally hung out. The dog usually also had its pillow there. When I think back I don't remember any farm wives, i.e., women that actually had to do things every day, that had a cat in the kitchen. If for not other reason then they "get under foot" when you are trying to do something and a woman that cooks for, oh say, a family of 4 or 5, does the washing, and has a few chickens out back, and maybe a small garden for the herbs and spices, doesn't have much time for sitting around knitting. And as for the dog having a bed in the kitchen, that would have been a no-no. Dogs stink. Maybe not a modern town dog that goes to the dog beautician for a wash and perm every month, but I can assure you that a "working" dog, whether a young lad's companion or one that herds sheep stinks. After all, the only bath they get is when they are caught out in the rain :-) Many farmers had a good personal relationship with some of their horses. They spent time with them outside work. Even if it was just to smoke a pipe and not be bothered by people. Horses tend not to nag and they are pleasant to be around. When I was a young fellow there were still a few farmers left that were farming with a team and my father owned a couple of Quarter Horses for some years and I'm not sure how "personal" a relationship existed between horses and men. If for no other reason then a horse can be almost unbelievably stupid. Or perhaps extremely self centered :-) You haul a manger full of hay down for the critter, dish out some oats, haul in a bucket of water and when you start you start to brush the mud out of his tail, he kicks you. Wild animals can be fun as well once they trust you enough. [...] -- Cheers, John B. |
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