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THE CASE FOR A MANDATORY CYCLE HELMET LAW 
(IN THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA)



 
 
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  #11  
Old September 6th 18, 07:35 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Sir Ridesalot
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 3,724
Default THE CASE FOR A MANDATORY CYCLE HELMET LAW 
(IN THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA)

On Thursday, September 6, 2018 at 12:54:44 AM UTC-4, Tim McNamara wrote:
On Wed, 5 Sep 2018 12:41:29 -0700 (PDT), Sir Ridesalot
wrote:

Where I am there's virtually no talk about MANDATORY helmet laws.
However many motorists and BICYCLISTS would like to see bicyclists
licensed so t hat they can fined or charged whenever they hit someone
or do something stupid and illegal that causes or nearly causes a
vehicular accident involving a motor vehicle or other bicyclist. The


Bicyclists can already be charged for violating the law in all 50 states
in the US. No licensing necessary. Bicyclists (and others) may not be
charged for stupidity, on the other hand, because being stupid is not
against the law- unless said stupidity leads to breaking the law.

Also, many here want to see electric scooters/pedal bikes licensed too
since so many people using them totally disregard rules of the road
and city bylawas as to where such things can be ridden.


And yet a plurality if not majority of motor vehicle operators that I
see every day violate some law or other while I am watching- speeding,
changing lanes without signaling, driving while distracted, driving out
of the designated lane, speeding, failing to stop for stop signs and
traffic signals, speeding, nonfunctioning head/taillights, speeding,
etc., etc., etc. Licensing clearly does not result in compliance with
the law and, at least in my state, no actual competence to operate a
motor vehicle in traffic is required to get a license. All licensing
seems to do is create a false notion of accountability. Take people's
licenses away and they just drive without one.


What people here want is a means to identify bicyclists/bicycle who/that leave the scene. Thus the wish for bicycle licenses.

Cheers
Ads
  #12  
Old September 6th 18, 01:14 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Duane[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 183
Default THE CASE FOR A MANDATORY CYCLE HELMET LAW 
(IN THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA)

On 06/09/2018 2:35 AM, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
On Thursday, September 6, 2018 at 12:54:44 AM UTC-4, Tim McNamara wrote:
On Wed, 5 Sep 2018 12:41:29 -0700 (PDT), Sir Ridesalot
wrote:

Where I am there's virtually no talk about MANDATORY helmet laws.
However many motorists and BICYCLISTS would like to see bicyclists
licensed so t hat they can fined or charged whenever they hit someone
or do something stupid and illegal that causes or nearly causes a
vehicular accident involving a motor vehicle or other bicyclist. The


Bicyclists can already be charged for violating the law in all 50 states
in the US. No licensing necessary. Bicyclists (and others) may not be
charged for stupidity, on the other hand, because being stupid is not
against the law- unless said stupidity leads to breaking the law.

Also, many here want to see electric scooters/pedal bikes licensed too
since so many people using them totally disregard rules of the road
and city bylawas as to where such things can be ridden.


And yet a plurality if not majority of motor vehicle operators that I
see every day violate some law or other while I am watching- speeding,
changing lanes without signaling, driving while distracted, driving out
of the designated lane, speeding, failing to stop for stop signs and
traffic signals, speeding, nonfunctioning head/taillights, speeding,
etc., etc., etc. Licensing clearly does not result in compliance with
the law and, at least in my state, no actual competence to operate a
motor vehicle in traffic is required to get a license. All licensing
seems to do is create a false notion of accountability. Take people's
licenses away and they just drive without one.


What people here want is a means to identify bicyclists/bicycle who/that leave the scene. Thus the wish for bicycle licenses.

Cheers


Here in Quebec they want that but there are also those that want
licensing as a fee for cyclists. They seem to think that since they
drive cars, they own the road and resent cyclists using THEIR roads.

Of course they're wrong since property tax pays for most of the roads
that cyclists use here and not licensing fees. And anyway, most of us
also drive cars and pay the same taxes and fees that they do but use
THEIR road less than they do. It's difficult to explain that to stupid
though.
  #13  
Old September 6th 18, 04:31 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Frank Krygowski[_4_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 6,271
Default THE CASE FOR A MANDATORY CYCLE HELMET LAW 
(IN THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA)

On 9/6/2018 2:35 AM, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
On Thursday, September 6, 2018 at 12:54:44 AM UTC-4, Tim McNamara wrote:
On Wed, 5 Sep 2018 12:41:29 -0700 (PDT), Sir Ridesalot
wrote:

Where I am there's virtually no talk about MANDATORY helmet laws.
However many motorists and BICYCLISTS would like to see bicyclists
licensed so t hat they can fined or charged whenever they hit someone
or do something stupid and illegal that causes or nearly causes a
vehicular accident involving a motor vehicle or other bicyclist. The


Bicyclists can already be charged for violating the law in all 50 states
in the US. No licensing necessary. Bicyclists (and others) may not be
charged for stupidity, on the other hand, because being stupid is not
against the law- unless said stupidity leads to breaking the law.

Also, many here want to see electric scooters/pedal bikes licensed too
since so many people using them totally disregard rules of the road
and city bylawas as to where such things can be ridden.


And yet a plurality if not majority of motor vehicle operators that I
see every day violate some law or other while I am watching- speeding,
changing lanes without signaling, driving while distracted, driving out
of the designated lane, speeding, failing to stop for stop signs and
traffic signals, speeding, nonfunctioning head/taillights, speeding,
etc., etc., etc. Licensing clearly does not result in compliance with
the law and, at least in my state, no actual competence to operate a
motor vehicle in traffic is required to get a license. All licensing
seems to do is create a false notion of accountability. Take people's
licenses away and they just drive without one.


What people here want is a means to identify bicyclists/bicycle who/that leave the scene. Thus the wish for bicycle licenses.


There are countless cases of motorists leaving the scene of an accident,
usually followed by reports like "The driver was in a black SUV. It may
have some front end damage. Anyone with information should call the
local police..." There's almost never mention of a license plate
number, probably because they're so difficult to read quickly and not
easy to remember.

Now extrapolate to a license plate on a bicycle. How easily would it be
seen? How often would it make a difference?

Bike registration has been tried many times. Most such schemes have
abandoned within a year or two because the cost of running them greatly
exceed the revenues and the benefits.

But there are always true believers, just as with perpetual motion machines.

--
- Frank Krygowski
  #14  
Old September 6th 18, 05:03 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Radey Shouman
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,071
Default THE CASE FOR A MANDATORY CYCLE HELMET LAW 
(IN THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA)

Frank Krygowski writes:

On 9/6/2018 2:35 AM, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
On Thursday, September 6, 2018 at 12:54:44 AM UTC-4, Tim McNamara wrote:
On Wed, 5 Sep 2018 12:41:29 -0700 (PDT), Sir Ridesalot
wrote:

Where I am there's virtually no talk about MANDATORY helmet laws.
However many motorists and BICYCLISTS would like to see bicyclists
licensed so t hat they can fined or charged whenever they hit someone
or do something stupid and illegal that causes or nearly causes a
vehicular accident involving a motor vehicle or other bicyclist. The

Bicyclists can already be charged for violating the law in all 50 states
in the US. No licensing necessary. Bicyclists (and others) may not be
charged for stupidity, on the other hand, because being stupid is not
against the law- unless said stupidity leads to breaking the law.

Also, many here want to see electric scooters/pedal bikes licensed too
since so many people using them totally disregard rules of the road
and city bylawas as to where such things can be ridden.

And yet a plurality if not majority of motor vehicle operators that I
see every day violate some law or other while I am watching- speeding,
changing lanes without signaling, driving while distracted, driving out
of the designated lane, speeding, failing to stop for stop signs and
traffic signals, speeding, nonfunctioning head/taillights, speeding,
etc., etc., etc. Licensing clearly does not result in compliance with
the law and, at least in my state, no actual competence to operate a
motor vehicle in traffic is required to get a license. All licensing
seems to do is create a false notion of accountability. Take people's
licenses away and they just drive without one.


What people here want is a means to identify bicyclists/bicycle
who/that leave the scene. Thus the wish for bicycle licenses.


There are countless cases of motorists leaving the scene of an
accident, usually followed by reports like "The driver was in a black
SUV. It may have some front end damage. Anyone with information should
call the local police..." There's almost never mention of a license
plate number, probably because they're so difficult to read quickly
and not easy to remember.

Now extrapolate to a license plate on a bicycle. How easily would it
be seen? How often would it make a difference?


We live in a brave new world, in which cameras that can read and
recognize license plates are sprinkled all over the landscape. This
allows governments to keep track of our movements in way that would have
been impossible not even a few years ago. Bicycle license plates would
allow the same benevolent oversight for cyclists as it does for
motorists.

Once facial recognition software is ready for prime time
pedestrians will enjoy the same benefits.



--
  #15  
Old September 7th 18, 12:34 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
[email protected]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 254
Default THE CASE FOR A MANDATORY CYCLE HELMET LAW (IN THE UNITED STATESOF AMERICA)

On Thursday, September 6, 2018 at 9:03:22 AM UTC-7, Radey Shouman wrote:
Frank Krygowski writes:

On 9/6/2018 2:35 AM, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
On Thursday, September 6, 2018 at 12:54:44 AM UTC-4, Tim McNamara wrote:
On Wed, 5 Sep 2018 12:41:29 -0700 (PDT), Sir Ridesalot
wrote:

Where I am there's virtually no talk about MANDATORY helmet laws.
However many motorists and BICYCLISTS would like to see bicyclists
licensed so t hat they can fined or charged whenever they hit someone
or do something stupid and illegal that causes or nearly causes a
vehicular accident involving a motor vehicle or other bicyclist. The

Bicyclists can already be charged for violating the law in all 50 states
in the US. No licensing necessary. Bicyclists (and others) may not be
charged for stupidity, on the other hand, because being stupid is not
against the law- unless said stupidity leads to breaking the law.

Also, many here want to see electric scooters/pedal bikes licensed too
since so many people using them totally disregard rules of the road
and city bylawas as to where such things can be ridden.

And yet a plurality if not majority of motor vehicle operators that I
see every day violate some law or other while I am watching- speeding,
changing lanes without signaling, driving while distracted, driving out
of the designated lane, speeding, failing to stop for stop signs and
traffic signals, speeding, nonfunctioning head/taillights, speeding,
etc., etc., etc. Licensing clearly does not result in compliance with
the law and, at least in my state, no actual competence to operate a
motor vehicle in traffic is required to get a license. All licensing
seems to do is create a false notion of accountability. Take people's
licenses away and they just drive without one.

What people here want is a means to identify bicyclists/bicycle
who/that leave the scene. Thus the wish for bicycle licenses.


There are countless cases of motorists leaving the scene of an
accident, usually followed by reports like "The driver was in a black
SUV. It may have some front end damage. Anyone with information should
call the local police..." There's almost never mention of a license
plate number, probably because they're so difficult to read quickly
and not easy to remember.

Now extrapolate to a license plate on a bicycle. How easily would it
be seen? How often would it make a difference?


We live in a brave new world, in which cameras that can read and
recognize license plates are sprinkled all over the landscape. This
allows governments to keep track of our movements in way that would have
been impossible not even a few years ago. Bicycle license plates would
allow the same benevolent oversight for cyclists as it does for
motorists.

Once facial recognition software is ready for prime time
pedestrians will enjoy the same benefits.


License plate readers are both rare and not very effective. There is virtually NO WAY that facial recognition would work. This is the real world and not NCIS.
  #16  
Old September 7th 18, 12:43 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
[email protected]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 254
Default THE CASE FOR A MANDATORY CYCLE HELMET LAW (IN THE UNITED STATESOF AMERICA)

On Thursday, September 6, 2018 at 9:03:22 AM UTC-7, Radey Shouman wrote:
Frank Krygowski writes:

On 9/6/2018 2:35 AM, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
On Thursday, September 6, 2018 at 12:54:44 AM UTC-4, Tim McNamara wrote:
On Wed, 5 Sep 2018 12:41:29 -0700 (PDT), Sir Ridesalot
wrote:

Where I am there's virtually no talk about MANDATORY helmet laws.
However many motorists and BICYCLISTS would like to see bicyclists
licensed so t hat they can fined or charged whenever they hit someone
or do something stupid and illegal that causes or nearly causes a
vehicular accident involving a motor vehicle or other bicyclist. The

Bicyclists can already be charged for violating the law in all 50 states
in the US. No licensing necessary. Bicyclists (and others) may not be
charged for stupidity, on the other hand, because being stupid is not
against the law- unless said stupidity leads to breaking the law.

Also, many here want to see electric scooters/pedal bikes licensed too
since so many people using them totally disregard rules of the road
and city bylawas as to where such things can be ridden.

And yet a plurality if not majority of motor vehicle operators that I
see every day violate some law or other while I am watching- speeding,
changing lanes without signaling, driving while distracted, driving out
of the designated lane, speeding, failing to stop for stop signs and
traffic signals, speeding, nonfunctioning head/taillights, speeding,
etc., etc., etc. Licensing clearly does not result in compliance with
the law and, at least in my state, no actual competence to operate a
motor vehicle in traffic is required to get a license. All licensing
seems to do is create a false notion of accountability. Take people's
licenses away and they just drive without one.

What people here want is a means to identify bicyclists/bicycle
who/that leave the scene. Thus the wish for bicycle licenses.


There are countless cases of motorists leaving the scene of an
accident, usually followed by reports like "The driver was in a black
SUV. It may have some front end damage. Anyone with information should
call the local police..." There's almost never mention of a license
plate number, probably because they're so difficult to read quickly
and not easy to remember.

Now extrapolate to a license plate on a bicycle. How easily would it
be seen? How often would it make a difference?


We live in a brave new world, in which cameras that can read and
recognize license plates are sprinkled all over the landscape. This
allows governments to keep track of our movements in way that would have
been impossible not even a few years ago. Bicycle license plates would
allow the same benevolent oversight for cyclists as it does for
motorists.

Once facial recognition software is ready for prime time
pedestrians will enjoy the same benefits.


But since you brought this up, we have the 4th Amendment that protects us from unusual searches and/or seizures. That means that they have to have a COURT ORDER to search you or anything that you own. It also means that the basis of the Trump Tower "collusion" charges HAD TO HAVE A COURT ORDER TO TAPE THE COMMUJNICATIONS IN TRUMP TOWER. This of necessity would have had to be issued by the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Court. There is no record of the FICA issuing a FISA warrant. The FBI took it entirely in their hands to illegally tap Trump Tower. This so outraged at least one FBI agent that he passed a warning off to Trump.

The illegality of this is so overwhelming in what is expected to be the nations foremost law enforcement agency that heads absolutely MUST roll. So where is the present Director of the FBI, Christopher Wray?
  #17  
Old September 7th 18, 01:25 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
AMuzi
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 9,723
Default THE CASE FOR A MANDATORY CYCLE HELMET LAW (IN THE UNITED STATESOF AMERICA)

On 9/6/2018 6:34 PM, wrote:
On Thursday, September 6, 2018 at 9:03:22 AM UTC-7, Radey Shouman wrote:
Frank Krygowski writes:

On 9/6/2018 2:35 AM, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
On Thursday, September 6, 2018 at 12:54:44 AM UTC-4, Tim McNamara wrote:
On Wed, 5 Sep 2018 12:41:29 -0700 (PDT), Sir Ridesalot
wrote:

Where I am there's virtually no talk about MANDATORY helmet laws.
However many motorists and BICYCLISTS would like to see bicyclists
licensed so t hat they can fined or charged whenever they hit someone
or do something stupid and illegal that causes or nearly causes a
vehicular accident involving a motor vehicle or other bicyclist. The

Bicyclists can already be charged for violating the law in all 50 states
in the US. No licensing necessary. Bicyclists (and others) may not be
charged for stupidity, on the other hand, because being stupid is not
against the law- unless said stupidity leads to breaking the law.

Also, many here want to see electric scooters/pedal bikes licensed too
since so many people using them totally disregard rules of the road
and city bylawas as to where such things can be ridden.

And yet a plurality if not majority of motor vehicle operators that I
see every day violate some law or other while I am watching- speeding,
changing lanes without signaling, driving while distracted, driving out
of the designated lane, speeding, failing to stop for stop signs and
traffic signals, speeding, nonfunctioning head/taillights, speeding,
etc., etc., etc. Licensing clearly does not result in compliance with
the law and, at least in my state, no actual competence to operate a
motor vehicle in traffic is required to get a license. All licensing
seems to do is create a false notion of accountability. Take people's
licenses away and they just drive without one.

What people here want is a means to identify bicyclists/bicycle
who/that leave the scene. Thus the wish for bicycle licenses.

There are countless cases of motorists leaving the scene of an
accident, usually followed by reports like "The driver was in a black
SUV. It may have some front end damage. Anyone with information should
call the local police..." There's almost never mention of a license
plate number, probably because they're so difficult to read quickly
and not easy to remember.

Now extrapolate to a license plate on a bicycle. How easily would it
be seen? How often would it make a difference?


We live in a brave new world, in which cameras that can read and
recognize license plates are sprinkled all over the landscape. This
allows governments to keep track of our movements in way that would have
been impossible not even a few years ago. Bicycle license plates would
allow the same benevolent oversight for cyclists as it does for
motorists.

Once facial recognition software is ready for prime time
pedestrians will enjoy the same benefits.


License plate readers are both rare and not very effective. There is virtually NO WAY that facial recognition would work. This is the real world and not NCIS.


Earth to Tom! Hello - ?? It's 2018 here.

Local automated license readers spot stolen cars here
regularly and facial recognition has gone mainstream:
https://www.iheart.com/content/2018-...gal-immigrant/



--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971


  #18  
Old September 7th 18, 02:28 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Radey Shouman
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,071
Default THE CASE FOR A MANDATORY CYCLE HELMET LAW (IN THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA)

writes:

On Thursday, September 6, 2018 at 9:03:22 AM UTC-7, Radey Shouman wrote:
Frank Krygowski writes:

On 9/6/2018 2:35 AM, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
On Thursday, September 6, 2018 at 12:54:44 AM UTC-4, Tim McNamara wrote:
On Wed, 5 Sep 2018 12:41:29 -0700 (PDT), Sir Ridesalot
wrote:

Where I am there's virtually no talk about MANDATORY helmet laws.
However many motorists and BICYCLISTS would like to see bicyclists
licensed so t hat they can fined or charged whenever they hit someone
or do something stupid and illegal that causes or nearly causes a
vehicular accident involving a motor vehicle or other bicyclist. The

Bicyclists can already be charged for violating the law in all 50 states
in the US. No licensing necessary. Bicyclists (and others) may not be
charged for stupidity, on the other hand, because being stupid is not
against the law- unless said stupidity leads to breaking the law.

Also, many here want to see electric scooters/pedal bikes licensed too
since so many people using them totally disregard rules of the road
and city bylawas as to where such things can be ridden.

And yet a plurality if not majority of motor vehicle operators that I
see every day violate some law or other while I am watching- speeding,
changing lanes without signaling, driving while distracted, driving out
of the designated lane, speeding, failing to stop for stop signs and
traffic signals, speeding, nonfunctioning head/taillights, speeding,
etc., etc., etc. Licensing clearly does not result in compliance with
the law and, at least in my state, no actual competence to operate a
motor vehicle in traffic is required to get a license. All licensing
seems to do is create a false notion of accountability. Take people's
licenses away and they just drive without one.

What people here want is a means to identify bicyclists/bicycle
who/that leave the scene. Thus the wish for bicycle licenses.

There are countless cases of motorists leaving the scene of an
accident, usually followed by reports like "The driver was in a black
SUV. It may have some front end damage. Anyone with information should
call the local police..." There's almost never mention of a license
plate number, probably because they're so difficult to read quickly
and not easy to remember.

Now extrapolate to a license plate on a bicycle. How easily would it
be seen? How often would it make a difference?


We live in a brave new world, in which cameras that can read and
recognize license plates are sprinkled all over the landscape. This
allows governments to keep track of our movements in way that would have
been impossible not even a few years ago. Bicycle license plates would
allow the same benevolent oversight for cyclists as it does for
motorists.

Once facial recognition software is ready for prime time
pedestrians will enjoy the same benefits.


License plate readers are both rare and not very effective. There is
virtually NO WAY that facial recognition would work. This is the real
world and not NCIS.


Not too long ago I drove across a few bridges in NYC, there were no toll
booths, only cameras. They sent me a bill, based on my license plate
number. In my state (Massachusetts), they recently eliminated toll
booths, and explicitly tied the electronic toll dongles to a particular
car. The only way to enforce that is by using license plate readers.

Down on near the southern border all of the border patrol checkpoints
now have cameras with license plate readers. I'm fairly sure they work,
and that they're ubiquitous.

Facial recognition is a lot dodgier, but I wouldn't be surprised if it
eventually worked quite well, in the sense of doing what its users want.

--
  #19  
Old September 7th 18, 02:42 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Frank Krygowski[_4_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 6,271
Default THE CASE FOR A MANDATORY CYCLE HELMET LAW 
(IN THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA)

On 9/5/2018 3:41 PM, Sir Ridesalot wrote:


Where I am there's virtually no talk about MANDATORY helmet laws.


IIRC, you're somewhere in Ontario. There's virtually no talk about
mandatory helmet laws there specifically because a group of cyclists -
including one who used to post here - successfully argued against them.
You should thank those cyclists for your freedom of choice.

BTW, a few years ago my wife and I did a driving and camping trip to
Cape Breton. While in a tiny town in New Brunswick, on a zero-traffic
Sunday evening, we rode our bikes a few blocks to a restaurant and back.
We were stopped on a residential street by a local cop and told that
helmets were mandatory for all ages everywhere in Canada. She was wrong,
of course. Yes, they are mandatory for all ages in NB and we knew that;
but we didn't even bring them along.

You'd be subject to the same nonsense if not for people you've argued
against.

--
- Frank Krygowski
  #20  
Old September 7th 18, 02:26 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
AMuzi
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 9,723
Default THE CASE FOR A MANDATORY CYCLE HELMET LAW 
(IN THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA)

On 9/6/2018 8:42 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 9/5/2018 3:41 PM, Sir Ridesalot wrote:


Where I am there's virtually no talk about MANDATORY
helmet laws.


IIRC, you're somewhere in Ontario. There's virtually no talk
about mandatory helmet laws there specifically because a
group of cyclists - including one who used to post here -
successfully argued against them. You should thank those
cyclists for your freedom of choice.

BTW, a few years ago my wife and I did a driving and camping
trip to Cape Breton. While in a tiny town in New Brunswick,
on a zero-traffic Sunday evening, we rode our bikes a few
blocks to a restaurant and back. We were stopped on a
residential street by a local cop and told that helmets were
mandatory for all ages everywhere in Canada. She was wrong,
of course. Yes, they are mandatory for all ages in NB and we
knew that; but we didn't even bring them along.

You'd be subject to the same nonsense if not for people
you've argued against.


Indeed, in a related issue the winning phrase was, "Let
those who ride decide."

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0sd-XHD_GuM


--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971


 




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