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#21
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Last Child in the Woods -- Saving Our Children from Nature-Deficit Disorder
On Sun, 19 Nov 2006 11:15:25 -0500, "S Curtiss"
wrote: "Mike Vandeman" wrote in message .. . On Sat, 18 Nov 2006 08:56:37 -0800, "Jeff Strickland" wrote: Mike also ignores (completely) that there is a huge difference in a human that passes by and one that builds a house or a freeway (where "house" and "freeway" are euphanisms for development that represent a permanent presence as opposed to a transitory presence). When humans pass by on a Saturday excursion into the wilderness then go home, wildlife is not impacted as Mike repeatedly purports, The research proves otherwise: http://home.pacbell.net/mjvande/scb7. Referencing your own writings with references only to materials carefully chosen to support your opinions That's a LIE. hardly counts as a reference. Provide INDEPENDANT review of YOUR statements and opinions. Until you do, you are only making a "because I say so" statement. === I am working on creating wildlife habitat that is off-limits to humans ("pure habitat"). Want to help? (I spent the previous 8 years fighting auto dependence and road construction.) Please don't put a cell phone next to any part of your body that you are fond of! http://home.pacbell.net/mjvande |
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#22
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Last Child in the Woods -- Saving Our Children from Nature-Deficit Disorder
On 19 Nov 2006 11:16:06 -0800, "Ed Pirrero"
wrote: S Curtiss wrote: "Mike Vandeman" wrote in message WHY? I have yet to hear even ONE good reason for allowing bikes off of pavement. You have yet to ACKNOWLEDGE good reasons. Ding! We have a winner. Really, only one reason need be espoused: because I want to, and am able to. You didn't read the question. I was asking for " ONE good reason for allowing bikes off of pavement." NOT why YOU should ride. Why someone else should LET you ride off-road. NOW answer the question. "Because YOU like it" is not a good reason for a LAND MANAGER to allow you to do it. Otherwise. that same reason would allow people to grow marijuana on public lands. This encompasses both the personal inlination which is not subject to the MJV scale of acknowledgement, and the legality of any particular locale for riding. Obviously, I would not be able (legally) to ride in a wilderness area. But on private timber company land, when that company explicitly welcomes MTBers to use the human-powered-only trails (no horses/motos), then all conditions are met. Even the MJV "habitat damage" criteria - since it's harvest-forest land, my biking activities are nothing in comparison to what's going to happen in 10-20 years - clear cut, then re-plant. Ooops, did I say something? E.P. === I am working on creating wildlife habitat that is off-limits to humans ("pure habitat"). Want to help? (I spent the previous 8 years fighting auto dependence and road construction.) Please don't put a cell phone next to any part of your body that you are fond of! http://home.pacbell.net/mjvande |
#23
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Last Child in the Woods -- Saving Our Children from Nature-Deficit Disorder
On Mon, 20 Nov 2006 09:06:51 GMT, "Roberto Baggio"
wrote: "S Curtiss" wrote in message news You have yet to ACKNOWLEDGE good reasons. You have chosen to ignore the facts, the evidence, and the real experiences and abilities of cyclists to continue with a focus on your opinions. In doing so, your attempts only cause friction which hampers real efforts of preservation. The last sentence is crucial; too bad it is only exacerbated by what is stated in the first two sentences. I'm still waiting to hear even ONE good reason for someone to permit mountain biking on public lands. === I am working on creating wildlife habitat that is off-limits to humans ("pure habitat"). Want to help? (I spent the previous 8 years fighting auto dependence and road construction.) Please don't put a cell phone next to any part of your body that you are fond of! http://home.pacbell.net/mjvande |
#24
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Last Child in the Woods -- Saving Our Children from Nature-Deficit Disorder
"Mike Vandeman" wrote in message ... On 19 Nov 2006 11:16:06 -0800, "Ed Pirrero" wrote: S Curtiss wrote: "Mike Vandeman" wrote in message WHY? I have yet to hear even ONE good reason for allowing bikes off of pavement. You have yet to ACKNOWLEDGE good reasons. Ding! We have a winner. Really, only one reason need be espoused: because I want to, and am able to. You didn't read the question. I was asking for " ONE good reason for allowing bikes off of pavement." NOT why YOU should ride. Why someone else should LET you ride off-road. NOW answer the question. "Because YOU like it" is not a good reason for a LAND MANAGER to allow you to do it. Otherwise. that same reason would allow people to grow marijuana on public lands. Your failure to grasp reality is at the center of the issue. As long as you continue to insist your views and definitions are the only acceptable options, you will continue to be looked at as on a fool's errand. |
#25
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Last Child in the Woods -- Saving Our Children from Nature-Deficit Disorder
"Mike Vandeman" wrote in message ... On Mon, 20 Nov 2006 09:06:51 GMT, "Roberto Baggio" wrote: "S Curtiss" wrote in message news You have yet to ACKNOWLEDGE good reasons. You have chosen to ignore the facts, the evidence, and the real experiences and abilities of cyclists to continue with a focus on your opinions. In doing so, your attempts only cause friction which hampers real efforts of preservation. The last sentence is crucial; too bad it is only exacerbated by what is stated in the first two sentences. I'm still waiting to hear even ONE good reason for someone to permit mountain biking on public lands. === Your choice not to acknowledge the several valid answers to this question over the years continues to leave you in a corner of your own making. Beyond that, you have NO power to make the request as you have NO power to wield in making decisions. Fortunately, your own lack of substance in dealing with the reality of the benefits put forth has left your credibility in a shambles and your voice empty in the actual discussions that continue to move forward. The expansion of access, the actual rules of access and the growth of cooperation between all groups continues to leave you and your phony "research" behind. |
#26
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Last Child in the Woods -- Saving Our Children from Nature-Deficit Disorder
"Mike Vandeman" wrote in message news On Sun, 19 Nov 2006 11:01:14 -0500, "S Curtiss" wrote: Despite the human interaction and close proximity of humans and wildlife for thousands of years leading up to "civilization". Despite the human populations that still live within wildlife boundaries (many African tribes, for instance) Despite the many deer and other wildlife that live in close proximity to humans in many areas. Canaan Valley, WV., for instance. Deer there give little concern for human presence. MV maintains that "wildlife" is inherently afraid of human contact yet ignores the fact that wildlife grows accustomed to human presence when that presence presents no danger. That a few species are forced to approach us doesn't prove that we aren't harming them. While much research shows human presence may cause avoidance, most prevalent in the initial contact, other studies show wildlife adaptation to human presence over time is much improved. That doesn't constitute proof that they haven't been harmed! DUH! Crawl back under your rock. True to form. You split the context in a meeger attempt at changing direction. You are pathetic in the extreme in your manner of discussion and your lack of honesty in the recognition of real information. How about recognizing the complete context for a change? How about exhibiting some integrity of the title (PhD) you constantly flaunt? How about actually recognizing the complete pool of scientific evidence rather than pulling only the pieces you like? "You also ignore in your judgements against cycling and other recreation, that it is the urban expansion that reduces and fragments these areas of habitat onto an ever decreasing footprint causing surviving wildlife to be more sensitive to human presence." When you acknowledge it is the urban growth that is reducing numbers, rather than the mere presence of a person (bike or no bike), you will have taken a big leap of integrity and honesty. Until then, you have no platform on which to present your "opinions". Even today, the AP issued a story on the loss of species and global warming featuring comments by University of Texas biologist Camille Parmesan. Nothing indicates the existence or use of mountain bikes is exacting changes of climate. Perhaps you should have stayed focused on the old mission stated in your sig (I spent the previous 8 years fighting auto dependence and road construction.) Maybe then you could have saved some lives. |
#27
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Last Child in the Woods -- Saving Our Children from Nature-Deficit Disorder
S Curtiss wrote: "Mike Vandeman" wrote in message ... On 19 Nov 2006 11:16:06 -0800, "Ed Pirrero" wrote: S Curtiss wrote: "Mike Vandeman" wrote in message WHY? I have yet to hear even ONE good reason for allowing bikes off of pavement. You have yet to ACKNOWLEDGE good reasons. Ding! We have a winner. Really, only one reason need be espoused: because I want to, and am able to. You didn't read the question. I was asking for " ONE good reason for allowing bikes off of pavement." NOT why YOU should ride. Why someone else should LET you ride off-road. NOW answer the question. "Because YOU like it" is not a good reason for a LAND MANAGER to allow you to do it. Otherwise. that same reason would allow people to grow marijuana on public lands. Your failure to grasp reality is at the center of the issue. As long as you continue to insist your views and definitions are the only acceptable options, you will continue to be looked at as on a fool's errand. And he fails to grasp that the reality is that the good reasons are that MTBers, by real, verifiable research, don't leave any bigger footprint in nature than hikers. And since the reality is that nobody is going to ban hikers, bikers (and their bikes) will continue to have access. The activity is growing, and reality matches that growth - more access to more places. Including National Parks! I don't think MJV would allow any sort of recreation in any area, if it were up to him. On foot, on bike, on horseback - none of it. So his opinion of what constitutes a "good reason" for allowing any of these things is essentially singular, and of no importance. E.P. |
#28
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Last Child in the Woods -- Saving Our Children from Nature-Deficit Disorder
Because the public allows it, just like they allow the paving of roads so
you can ride your bike on them, or they allow the trees and fossil fuels so that you can have tires on your bike. "Mike Vandeman" wrote in message ... On Mon, 20 Nov 2006 09:06:51 GMT, "Roberto Baggio" wrote: "S Curtiss" wrote in message news You have yet to ACKNOWLEDGE good reasons. You have chosen to ignore the facts, the evidence, and the real experiences and abilities of cyclists to continue with a focus on your opinions. In doing so, your attempts only cause friction which hampers real efforts of preservation. The last sentence is crucial; too bad it is only exacerbated by what is stated in the first two sentences. I'm still waiting to hear even ONE good reason for someone to permit mountain biking on public lands. === I am working on creating wildlife habitat that is off-limits to humans ("pure habitat"). Want to help? (I spent the previous 8 years fighting auto dependence and road construction.) Please don't put a cell phone next to any part of your body that you are fond of! http://home.pacbell.net/mjvande |
#29
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Last Child in the Woods -- Saving Our Children from Nature-Deficit Disorder
"Mike Vandeman" wrote in message ... On Sun, 19 Nov 2006 11:15:25 -0500, "S Curtiss" wrote: "Mike Vandeman" wrote in message . .. On Sat, 18 Nov 2006 08:56:37 -0800, "Jeff Strickland" wrote: Mike also ignores (completely) that there is a huge difference in a human that passes by and one that builds a house or a freeway (where "house" and "freeway" are euphanisms for development that represent a permanent presence as opposed to a transitory presence). When humans pass by on a Saturday excursion into the wilderness then go home, wildlife is not impacted as Mike repeatedly purports, The research proves otherwise: http://home.pacbell.net/mjvande/scb7. Referencing your own writings with references only to materials carefully chosen to support your opinions That's a LIE. Precisely HOW is it a lie? Aren't you referencing your own publication? Don't your publications contain material chosen to support your opinion? I'm not sure I know what the lie is here, except it is pretty clear to me that the assertion that there is a lie is itself a lie. |
#30
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Last Child in the Woods -- Saving Our Children from Nature-Deficit Disorder
"S Curtiss" wrote in message ... True to form. You split the context in a meeger attempt at changing direction. You are pathetic in the extreme in your manner of discussion and your lack of honesty in the recognition of real information. How about recognizing the complete context for a change? How about exhibiting some integrity of the title (PhD) you constantly flaunt? How about actually recognizing the complete pool of scientific evidence rather than pulling only the pieces you like? "You also ignore in your judgements against cycling and other recreation, that it is the urban expansion that reduces and fragments these areas of habitat onto an ever decreasing footprint causing surviving wildlife to be more sensitive to human presence." When you acknowledge it is the urban growth that is reducing numbers, rather than the mere presence of a person (bike or no bike), you will have taken a big leap of integrity and honesty. Until then, you have no platform on which to present your "opinions". Even today, the AP issued a story on the loss of species and global warming featuring comments by University of Texas biologist Camille Parmesan. Nothing indicates the existence or use of mountain bikes is exacting changes of climate. Perhaps you should have stayed focused on the old mission stated in your sig (I spent the previous 8 years fighting auto dependence and road construction.) Maybe then you could have saved some lives. He's not interested in a constructive result, he's a troll and he's playing you for a reaction like a kid poking a bug. He doesn't give a crap for the environment or wildlife or he would direct his considerable efforts in a direction where they might actually accomplish something. Instead he gets his jollys from annoying and namecalling. If you visit the groups he crossposts to that are concerned with the environment you will find that his posts are completely ignored. As you've already seen a reasoned response, logical, annotated, factual is a waste of time. He's like a child making prank calls when Mommy and Daddy aren't home. He's only interested in getting a response so he can start calling names. His PhD is in a field wholly unrelated to nature, biology and environment. His job is in a cubicle for a telecommunications company. He's an impotent nobody crying out for attention and he gets it only here. He loses when his posts get ZERO response and sit alone and ignored between other threads. That's the only way to defeat a troll. Like Tinkerbelle, when no one believes in him anymore he will wither and die. If you must repond to him, please delete his stupid diatribe. It's criminal to consider how many servers are necessary for Google to preserve his nonsense because people duplicate his entire post to respond. |
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