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#1
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Crochet vs hook-bead rims
So I learned (?) something new (?) today reading Lennard Zinn's column
at Velonews: https://www.velonews.com/2020/01/tec...blowoff_503717 What I learned was the term "crochet-type rim". Looking it up, some sources say this is just another name for hook-bead, BUT: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ISO_5775#Rims says: Both crochet (C) and hooked-bead (HB) rims have inner profiles that curve inwards near the outside diameter of the rim to provide a hook that helps retain the tire bead under high pressure. On modern bikes crochet rims are most common and hooked bead rims are rare. The distinction is primarily that hooked-bead rims lack the defined bead seat of straight side and hooked bead rims. The tire is held in position radially by the hook without a bead seat playing a role. Without a bead seat, the primary designation of the diameter in terms of the bead seat is not applicable, and the governing diameter is the OD. Sentence #3 pretty clearly has a typo, but I can't figure out the correction, and I cannot find any images on google that directly compare hooked-bead and crocheted (also sometimes mis-named "crotched"). I suspect the "HB" in the quoted passage above is really referring to an obsolete design, and that the quoted writer would even call the 70's Mavic Mod E "crocheted" rather than "hooked-bead," even though we all called them hooked-bead. Can anyone clear this up with an authoritative source? Mark J. |
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#2
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Crochet vs hook-bead rims
On Tuesday, January 14, 2020 at 9:10:48 AM UTC-8, Mark J. wrote:
So I learned (?) something new (?) today reading Lennard Zinn's column at Velonews: https://www.velonews.com/2020/01/tec...blowoff_503717 What I learned was the term "crochet-type rim". Looking it up, some sources say this is just another name for hook-bead, BUT: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ISO_5775#Rims says: Both crochet (C) and hooked-bead (HB) rims have inner profiles that curve inwards near the outside diameter of the rim to provide a hook that helps retain the tire bead under high pressure. On modern bikes crochet rims are most common and hooked bead rims are rare. The distinction is primarily that hooked-bead rims lack the defined bead seat of straight side and hooked bead rims. The tire is held in position radially by the hook without a bead seat playing a role. Without a bead seat, the primary designation of the diameter in terms of the bead seat is not applicable, and the governing diameter is the OD. Sentence #3 pretty clearly has a typo, but I can't figure out the correction, and I cannot find any images on google that directly compare hooked-bead and crocheted (also sometimes mis-named "crotched"). I suspect the "HB" in the quoted passage above is really referring to an obsolete design, and that the quoted writer would even call the 70's Mavic Mod E "crocheted" rather than "hooked-bead," even though we all called them hooked-bead. Can anyone clear this up with an authoritative source? Mark J. I'm sure there must be an ISO drawing somewhere. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ISO_5775 My sense is that we've been calling ISO "crochet" rims "hook bead" rims but that a true "hook bead" looks like an open hook ala the old steel rim design. http://www.asia.ru/images/target/pho...Steel_Rim..jpg -- Jay Beattie. -- Jay Beattie. |
#3
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Crochet vs hook-bead rims
On 1/14/2020 11:51 AM, jbeattie wrote:
On Tuesday, January 14, 2020 at 9:10:48 AM UTC-8, Mark J. wrote: So I learned (?) something new (?) today reading Lennard Zinn's column at Velonews: https://www.velonews.com/2020/01/tec...blowoff_503717 What I learned was the term "crochet-type rim". Looking it up, some sources say this is just another name for hook-bead, BUT: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ISO_5775#Rims says: Both crochet (C) and hooked-bead (HB) rims have inner profiles that curve inwards near the outside diameter of the rim to provide a hook that helps retain the tire bead under high pressure. On modern bikes crochet rims are most common and hooked bead rims are rare. The distinction is primarily that hooked-bead rims lack the defined bead seat of straight side and hooked bead rims. The tire is held in position radially by the hook without a bead seat playing a role. Without a bead seat, the primary designation of the diameter in terms of the bead seat is not applicable, and the governing diameter is the OD. Sentence #3 pretty clearly has a typo, but I can't figure out the correction, and I cannot find any images on google that directly compare hooked-bead and crocheted (also sometimes mis-named "crotched"). I suspect the "HB" in the quoted passage above is really referring to an obsolete design, and that the quoted writer would even call the 70's Mavic Mod E "crocheted" rather than "hooked-bead," even though we all called them hooked-bead. Can anyone clear this up with an authoritative source? Mark J. I'm sure there must be an ISO drawing somewhere. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ISO_5775 My sense is that we've been calling ISO "crochet" rims "hook bead" rims but that a true "hook bead" looks like an open hook ala the old steel rim design. http://www.asia.ru/images/target/pho.../Steel_Rim.jpg Yes, that's correct. Rims with a lip and also a bead seat, such as items #571 and #A125 he http://www.yellowjersey.org/photosfr...t/WEINRIMS.JPG are the modern standard design. -- Andrew Muzi www.yellowjersey.org/ Open every day since 1 April, 1971 |
#4
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Crochet vs hook-bead rims
On 1/14/2020 10:34 AM, AMuzi wrote:
On 1/14/2020 11:51 AM, jbeattie wrote: On Tuesday, January 14, 2020 at 9:10:48 AM UTC-8, Mark J. wrote: So I learned (?) something new (?) today reading Lennard Zinn's column at Velonews: https://www.velonews.com/2020/01/tec...blowoff_503717 What I learned was the term "crochet-type rim". Looking it up, some sources say this is just another name for hook-bead, BUT: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ISO_5775#RimsÂ*Â*Â* says: Â*Â*Â*Â*Both crochet (C) and hooked-bead (HB) rims have inner profiles Â*Â*Â*Â*that curve inwards near the outside diameter of the rim to Â*Â*Â*Â*provide a hook that helps retain the tire bead under high Â*Â*Â*Â*pressure. On modern bikes crochet rims are most common and Â*Â*Â*Â*hooked bead rims are rare. The distinction is primarily that Â*Â*Â*Â*hooked-bead rims lack the defined bead seat of straight side and Â*Â*Â*Â*hooked bead rims. The tire is held in position radially by the Â*Â*Â*Â*hook without a bead seat playing a role. Without a bead seat, Â*Â*Â*Â*the primary designation of the diameter in terms of the bead Â*Â*Â*Â*seat is not applicable, and the governing diameter is the OD. Sentence #3 pretty clearly has a typo, but I can't figure out the correction, and I cannot find any images on google that directly compare hooked-bead and crocheted (also sometimes mis-named "crotched"). I suspect the "HB" in the quoted passage above is really referring to an obsolete design, and that the quoted writer would even call the 70's Mavic Mod E "crocheted" rather than "hooked-bead," even though we all called them hooked-bead. Can anyone clear this up with an authoritative source? Mark J. I'm sure there must be an ISO drawing somewhere. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ISO_5775Â* My sense is that we've been calling ISO "crochet" rims "hook bead" rims but that a true "hook bead" looks like an open hook ala the old steel rim design. http://www.asia.ru/images/target/pho.../Steel_Rim.jpg Yes, that's correct. Rims with a lip and also a bead seat, such as items #571 and #A125 he http://www.yellowjersey.org/photosfr...t/WEINRIMS.JPG are the modern standard design. Thanks, Jay & Andrew. SO I gather that in the quotation above the author intended to say: The distinction is primarily that hooked-bead rims lack the defined bead seat of straight side and /crochet/ rims. Somehow, I think I'm just gonna keep calling them "hooked-bead." It's worked for me for forty years. Mark J. |
#5
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Crochet vs hook-bead rims
On Tuesday, January 14, 2020 at 3:58:27 PM UTC-8, Mark J. wrote:
On 1/14/2020 10:34 AM, AMuzi wrote: On 1/14/2020 11:51 AM, jbeattie wrote: On Tuesday, January 14, 2020 at 9:10:48 AM UTC-8, Mark J. wrote: So I learned (?) something new (?) today reading Lennard Zinn's column at Velonews: https://www.velonews.com/2020/01/tec...blowoff_503717 What I learned was the term "crochet-type rim". Looking it up, some sources say this is just another name for hook-bead, BUT: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ISO_5775#RimsÂ*Â*Â* says: Â*Â*Â*Â*Both crochet (C) and hooked-bead (HB) rims have inner profiles Â*Â*Â*Â*that curve inwards near the outside diameter of the rim to Â*Â*Â*Â*provide a hook that helps retain the tire bead under high Â*Â*Â*Â*pressure. On modern bikes crochet rims are most common and Â*Â*Â*Â*hooked bead rims are rare. The distinction is primarily that Â*Â*Â*Â*hooked-bead rims lack the defined bead seat of straight side and Â*Â*Â*Â*hooked bead rims. The tire is held in position radially by the Â*Â*Â*Â*hook without a bead seat playing a role. Without a bead seat, Â*Â*Â*Â*the primary designation of the diameter in terms of the bead Â*Â*Â*Â*seat is not applicable, and the governing diameter is the OD. Sentence #3 pretty clearly has a typo, but I can't figure out the correction, and I cannot find any images on google that directly compare hooked-bead and crocheted (also sometimes mis-named "crotched"). I suspect the "HB" in the quoted passage above is really referring to an obsolete design, and that the quoted writer would even call the 70's Mavic Mod E "crocheted" rather than "hooked-bead," even though we all called them hooked-bead. Can anyone clear this up with an authoritative source? Mark J. I'm sure there must be an ISO drawing somewhere. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ISO_5775Â* My sense is that we've been calling ISO "crochet" rims "hook bead" rims but that a true "hook bead" looks like an open hook ala the old steel rim design. http://www.asia.ru/images/target/pho.../Steel_Rim.jpg Yes, that's correct. Rims with a lip and also a bead seat, such as items #571 and #A125 he http://www.yellowjersey.org/photosfr...t/WEINRIMS.JPG are the modern standard design. Thanks, Jay & Andrew. SO I gather that in the quotation above the author intended to say: The distinction is primarily that hooked-bead rims lack the defined bead seat of straight side and /crochet/ rims. Somehow, I think I'm just gonna keep calling them "hooked-bead." It's worked for me for forty years. Mark J. Until today, I had never heard the term crochet rim. I always called them hook bead rims as distinguished from straight sided rims -- like the Wolber concaves Andrew linked. I built a set of those 4X 27" (I think). Anyway, they were 310mm spokes, and I still have a bunch of them. Totally useless unless I get a $zillion Phil spoke cutter-threader. I don't even remember what I did with the wheels. They weighed a ton, and I hated them. I think I replaced the rims with Mod 58s -- my standard crochet bead touring rim. -- Jay Beattie. |
#6
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Crochet vs hook-bead rims
On 1/14/2020 6:54 PM, jbeattie wrote:
On Tuesday, January 14, 2020 at 3:58:27 PM UTC-8, Mark J. wrote: On 1/14/2020 10:34 AM, AMuzi wrote: On 1/14/2020 11:51 AM, jbeattie wrote: On Tuesday, January 14, 2020 at 9:10:48 AM UTC-8, Mark J. wrote: So I learned (?) something new (?) today reading Lennard Zinn's column at Velonews: https://www.velonews.com/2020/01/tec...blowoff_503717 What I learned was the term "crochet-type rim". Looking it up, some sources say this is just another name for hook-bead, BUT: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ISO_5775#Rims   says:     Both crochet (C) and hooked-bead (HB) rims have inner profiles     that curve inwards near the outside diameter of the rim to     provide a hook that helps retain the tire bead under high     pressure. On modern bikes crochet rims are most common and     hooked bead rims are rare. The distinction is primarily that     hooked-bead rims lack the defined bead seat of straight side and     hooked bead rims. The tire is held in position radially by the     hook without a bead seat playing a role. Without a bead seat,     the primary designation of the diameter in terms of the bead     seat is not applicable, and the governing diameter is the OD. Sentence #3 pretty clearly has a typo, but I can't figure out the correction, and I cannot find any images on google that directly compare hooked-bead and crocheted (also sometimes mis-named "crotched"). I suspect the "HB" in the quoted passage above is really referring to an obsolete design, and that the quoted writer would even call the 70's Mavic Mod E "crocheted" rather than "hooked-bead," even though we all called them hooked-bead. Can anyone clear this up with an authoritative source? Mark J. I'm sure there must be an ISO drawing somewhere. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ISO_5775 My sense is that we've been calling ISO "crochet" rims "hook bead" rims but that a true "hook bead" looks like an open hook ala the old steel rim design. http://www.asia.ru/images/target/pho.../Steel_Rim.jpg Yes, that's correct. Rims with a lip and also a bead seat, such as items #571 and #A125 he http://www.yellowjersey.org/photosfr...t/WEINRIMS.JPG are the modern standard design. Thanks, Jay & Andrew. SO I gather that in the quotation above the author intended to say: The distinction is primarily that hooked-bead rims lack the defined bead seat of straight side and /crochet/ rims. Somehow, I think I'm just gonna keep calling them "hooked-bead." It's worked for me for forty years. Mark J. Until today, I had never heard the term crochet rim. I always called them hook bead rims as distinguished from straight sided rims -- like the Wolber concaves Andrew linked. I built a set of those 4X 27" (I think). Anyway, they were 310mm spokes, and I still have a bunch of them. Totally useless unless I get a $zillion Phil spoke cutter-threader. I don't even remember what I did with the wheels. They weighed a ton, and I hated them. I think I replaced the rims with Mod 58s -- my standard crochet bead touring rim. -- Jay Beattie. Yeah Weinmann A124/A129 were real pigs. But we sold tons of them, used to buy them in case-of-50 700C, 27", 36 and 48 drill. For people who eat rims, those were nearly indigestible. -- Andrew Muzi www.yellowjersey.org/ Open every day since 1 April, 1971 |
#7
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Crochet vs hook-bead rims
"Mark J." writes:
On 1/14/2020 10:34 AM, AMuzi wrote: On 1/14/2020 11:51 AM, jbeattie wrote: On Tuesday, January 14, 2020 at 9:10:48 AM UTC-8, Mark J. wrote: So I learned (?) something new (?) today reading Lennard Zinn's column at Velonews: https://www.velonews.com/2020/01/tec...blowoff_503717 What I learned was the term "crochet-type rim". Looking it up, some sources say this is just another name for hook-bead, BUT: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ISO_5775#RimsÂ*Â*Â* says: Â*Â*Â*Â*Both crochet (C) and hooked-bead (HB) rims have inner profiles Â*Â*Â*Â*that curve inwards near the outside diameter of the rim to Â*Â*Â*Â*provide a hook that helps retain the tire bead under high Â*Â*Â*Â*pressure. On modern bikes crochet rims are most common and Â*Â*Â*Â*hooked bead rims are rare. The distinction is primarily that Â*Â*Â*Â*hooked-bead rims lack the defined bead seat of straight side and Â*Â*Â*Â*hooked bead rims. The tire is held in position radially by the Â*Â*Â*Â*hook without a bead seat playing a role. Without a bead seat, Â*Â*Â*Â*the primary designation of the diameter in terms of the bead Â*Â*Â*Â*seat is not applicable, and the governing diameter is the OD. Sentence #3 pretty clearly has a typo, but I can't figure out the correction, and I cannot find any images on google that directly compare hooked-bead and crocheted (also sometimes mis-named "crotched"). I suspect the "HB" in the quoted passage above is really referring to an obsolete design, and that the quoted writer would even call the 70's Mavic Mod E "crocheted" rather than "hooked-bead," even though we all called them hooked-bead. Can anyone clear this up with an authoritative source? Mark J. I'm sure there must be an ISO drawing somewhere. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ISO_5775Â* My sense is that we've been calling ISO "crochet" rims "hook bead" rims but that a true "hook bead" looks like an open hook ala the old steel rim design. http://www.asia.ru/images/target/pho.../Steel_Rim.jpg Yes, that's correct. Rims with a lip and also a bead seat, such as items #571 and #A125 he http://www.yellowjersey.org/photosfr...t/WEINRIMS.JPG are the modern standard design. Thanks, Jay & Andrew. SO I gather that in the quotation above the author intended to say: The distinction is primarily that hooked-bead rims lack the defined bead seat of straight side and /crochet/ rims. Somehow, I think I'm just gonna keep calling them "hooked-bead." It's worked for me for forty years. Not that it makes a difference, but doesn't "crochet" just mean "hook" in French? |
#8
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Crochet vs hook-bead rims
On 1/14/2020 8:02 PM, Radey Shouman wrote:
"Mark J." writes: On 1/14/2020 10:34 AM, AMuzi wrote: On 1/14/2020 11:51 AM, jbeattie wrote: On Tuesday, January 14, 2020 at 9:10:48 AM UTC-8, Mark J. wrote: So I learned (?) something new (?) today reading Lennard Zinn's column at Velonews: https://www.velonews.com/2020/01/tec...blowoff_503717 What I learned was the term "crochet-type rim". Looking it up, some sources say this is just another name for hook-bead, BUT: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ISO_5775#Rims   says:     Both crochet (C) and hooked-bead (HB) rims have inner profiles     that curve inwards near the outside diameter of the rim to     provide a hook that helps retain the tire bead under high     pressure. On modern bikes crochet rims are most common and     hooked bead rims are rare. The distinction is primarily that     hooked-bead rims lack the defined bead seat of straight side and     hooked bead rims. The tire is held in position radially by the     hook without a bead seat playing a role. Without a bead seat,     the primary designation of the diameter in terms of the bead     seat is not applicable, and the governing diameter is the OD. Sentence #3 pretty clearly has a typo, but I can't figure out the correction, and I cannot find any images on google that directly compare hooked-bead and crocheted (also sometimes mis-named "crotched"). I suspect the "HB" in the quoted passage above is really referring to an obsolete design, and that the quoted writer would even call the 70's Mavic Mod E "crocheted" rather than "hooked-bead," even though we all called them hooked-bead. Can anyone clear this up with an authoritative source? Mark J. I'm sure there must be an ISO drawing somewhere. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ISO_5775 My sense is that we've been calling ISO "crochet" rims "hook bead" rims but that a true "hook bead" looks like an open hook ala the old steel rim design. http://www.asia.ru/images/target/pho.../Steel_Rim.jpg Yes, that's correct. Rims with a lip and also a bead seat, such as items #571 and #A125 he http://www.yellowjersey.org/photosfr...t/WEINRIMS.JPG are the modern standard design. Thanks, Jay & Andrew. SO I gather that in the quotation above the author intended to say: The distinction is primarily that hooked-bead rims lack the defined bead seat of straight side and /crochet/ rims. Somehow, I think I'm just gonna keep calling them "hooked-bead." It's worked for me for forty years. Not that it makes a difference, but doesn't "crochet" just mean "hook" in French? Mais oui! From 'crochet' rims to christening -584 tires as '27.5' to calling a semi an 'assault weapon' to every statement ever released by the Federal Reserve, an avoidance of clear language (or actual obfuscation) is itself a telling point about the message. And the messenger. -- Andrew Muzi www.yellowjersey.org/ Open every day since 1 April, 1971 |
#9
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Crochet vs hook-bead rims
On 1/14/2020 9:16 PM, AMuzi wrote:
On 1/14/2020 8:02 PM, Radey Shouman wrote: "Mark J." writes: On 1/14/2020 10:34 AM, AMuzi wrote: On 1/14/2020 11:51 AM, jbeattie wrote: On Tuesday, January 14, 2020 at 9:10:48 AM UTC-8, Mark J. wrote: So I learned (?) something new (?) today reading Lennard Zinn's column at Velonews: https://www.velonews.com/2020/01/tec...blowoff_503717 What I learned was the term "crochet-type rim". Looking it up, some sources say this is just another name for hook-bead, BUT: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ISO_5775#Rims  ÂÂ* says:     Both crochet (C) and hooked-bead (HB) rims have inner profiles     that curve inwards near the outside diameter of the rim to     provide a hook that helps retain the tire bead under high     pressure. On modern bikes crochet rims are most common and     hooked bead rims are rare. The distinction is primarily that     hooked-bead rims lack the defined bead seat of straight side and     hooked bead rims. The tire is held in position radially by the     hook without a bead seat playing a role. Without a bead seat,     the primary designation of the diameter in terms of the bead     seat is not applicable, and the governing diameter is the OD. Sentence #3 pretty clearly has a typo, but I can't figure out the correction, and I cannot find any images on google that directly compare hooked-bead and crocheted (also sometimes mis-named "crotched"). I suspect the "HB" in the quoted passage above is really referring to an obsolete design, and that the quoted writer would even call the 70's Mavic Mod E "crocheted" rather than "hooked-bead," even though we all called them hooked-bead. Can anyone clear this up with an authoritative source? Mark J. I'm sure there must be an ISO drawing somewhere. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ISO_5775ÂÂ* My sense is that we've been calling ISO "crochet" rims "hook bead" rims but that a true "hook bead" looks like an open hook ala the old steel rim design. http://www.asia.ru/images/target/pho.../Steel_Rim.jpg Yes, that's correct. Rims with a lip and also a bead seat, such as items #571 and #A125 he http://www.yellowjersey.org/photosfr...t/WEINRIMS.JPG are the modern standard design. Thanks, Jay & Andrew.Â* SO I gather that in the quotation above the author intended to say: Â*Â*Â*Â*The distinction is primarily that Â*Â*Â*Â* hooked-bead rims lack the defined bead seat of straight side and Â*Â*Â*Â* /crochet/ rims. Somehow, I think I'm just gonna keep calling them "hooked-bead." It's worked for me for forty years. Not that it makes a difference, but doesn't "crochet" just mean "hook" in French? Mais oui! From 'crochet' rims to christening -584 tires as '27.5' to calling a semi an 'assault weapon' to every statement ever released by the Federal Reserve, an avoidance of clear language (or actual obfuscation) is itself a telling point about the message. And the messenger. Clipless pedals? (That one clips into?) Clincher? (What does it clinch?) Gears? (Aren't they really sprockets?) Mountain bike? (Hardly ever used on actual mountains.) Road bike? (When almost all bikes are almost always ridden on roads?) -- - Frank Krygowski |
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