too-long spokes

On Thursday, November 1, 2012 11:01:30 AM UTC-4, wrote:
On Wednesday, October 31, 2012 9:19:13 PM UTC-4, Jay Beattie wrote:



I ran it a bunch of times on this: http://www.prowheelbuilder.com/spokelengthcalculator/



It allows you to monkey with axle width and spacing. I'm getting



differences of like .1mm on the right, which seems intuitively wrong.



Let's say I respace to 135 and stack 5mm of washers on the left side.



Just visualizing it, I would think that my right side spoke length



would change by more than .1mm to center the rim. But then whadda I



know.



O.1mm doesn't sound unreasonable to me. The length is certainly not going to change much. Play with the trigonometry and see.



Or even easier, just sketch it out at your desk - a right triangle with a tall vertical and a short horizontal, so the hypotenuse representing the spoke is near vertical. Adding 5mm to the horizontal barely changes the hypotenuse.



- Frank Krygowski

SSSSSSSSSSSSHHHHHHHHH

ungwack ugha borno borno eeeeeeeiiiiiiiayayyayayayya

wu wu wu wu......trig....knuck knuck kncuk

On Thursday, November 1, 2012 12:24:24 PM UTC-4, Robert Cooper wrote:
On Thursday, November 1, 2012 11:01:30 AM UTC-4, wrote:



O.1mm doesn't sound unreasonable to me. The length is certainly not going to change much. Play with the trigonometry and see.



Or even easier, just sketch it out at your desk - a right triangle with a tall vertical and a short horizontal, so the hypotenuse representing the spoke is near vertical. Adding 5mm to the horizontal barely changes the hypotenuse.



Yes. What I meant was that the 135 axle plus Ultegra hub complicated the thinking even though it may not have changed the geometry of the wheel or the spoke length by any significant amount.



Red herring, I suppose it's called.



Bob

SSSSSSSSPPPPPPPo

ok say you grind the spokes...then wheel is bent or needs restressing then what ?

grind again ? belivee you me this gets tedious...

your explaination is typical: spoke clac does not reason for your problems only the authors'

On 11/1/2012 6:52 AM, datakoll wrote:
On Thursday, November 1, 2012 7:46:38 AM UTC-4, datakoll wrote:
spoke clac arrives at a theoretical spoke length not a real spoke length...before adding in unknown variable eg double wall rims.



The real spoke length is shorter than the theoretcial length by 2-3-4-5 mm.



eyeyehahhhahahhahahah then you guess at it.



eyeyehahahahahhahaha



I have witnessed LBS and Mail Odor warhouse personnel believing spake clac lengths are TRUE which obviously isnot the situation.

SSSSSSSSSHHHHHHHHH

and itsa bummer you know sit down for a sculpture artsy craftsy mechanical building experience only to wind up with the wrong length spokes.

we have asked spoke clac originators...HARRIS-SHELDON BROPWN spomsor one right ?
for truth in calculating up front on the instructions without redress.

frankly these guys suck pig assholes


Well, we may indeed but OTOH we do run spoke lengths correctly.

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

On 11/1/2012 8:09 AM, datakoll wrote:
On Thursday, November 1, 2012 7:52:24 AM UTC-4, datakoll wrote:
On Thursday, November 1, 2012 7:46:38 AM UTC-4, datakoll wrote:

spoke clac arrives at a theoretical spoke length not a real spoke length...before adding in unknown variable eg double wall rims.







The real spoke length is shorter than the theoretcial length by 2-3-4-5 mm.







eyeyehahhhahahhahahah then you guess at it.







eyeyehahahahahhahaha







I have witnessed LBS and Mail Odor warhouse personnel believing spake clac lengths are TRUE which obviously isnot the situation.



SSSSSSSSSHHHHHHHHH



and itsa bummer you know sit down for a sculpture artsy craftsy mechanical building experience only to wind up with the wrong length spokes.



we have asked spoke clac originators...HARRIS-SHELDON BROPWN spomsor one right ?

for truth in calculating up front on the instructions without redress.



frankly these guys suck pig assholes

lllllllllllllllll

think about it...how does spoke clac stack against the evils of USPOSTAL ?







Paul Erdos, " I don't want kids who are thinking about going
into mathematics to think that they have to take drugs to
succeed."

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

On Thursday, November 1, 2012 7:37:36 PM UTC-4, AMuzi wrote:
On 11/1/2012 6:52 AM, datakoll wrote:

On Thursday, November 1, 2012 7:46:38 AM UTC-4, datakoll wrote:

spoke clac arrives at a theoretical spoke length not a real spoke length...before adding in unknown variable eg double wall rims.







The real spoke length is shorter than the theoretcial length by 2-3-4-5 mm.







eyeyehahhhahahhahahah then you guess at it.







eyeyehahahahahhahaha







I have witnessed LBS and Mail Odor warhouse personnel believing spake clac lengths are TRUE which obviously isnot the situation.



SSSSSSSSSHHHHHHHHH



and itsa bummer you know sit down for a sculpture artsy craftsy mechanical building experience only to wind up with the wrong length spokes.



we have asked spoke clac originators...HARRIS-SHELDON BROPWN spomsor one right ?

for truth in calculating up front on the instructions without redress.



frankly these guys suck pig assholes





Well, we may indeed but OTOH we do run spoke lengths correctly.



--

Andrew Muzi

www.yellowjersey.org/

Open every day since 1 April, 1971

DDDDDDDDDDDD

Muzi supports a 'no true advice' position for spoke clac instructions ?

one answer on 'no alteration to the clac gospel' was 'he's (the software author) DEAD

well sheeeet DIG HIM UP !

On 11/1/2012 7:04 PM, datakoll wrote:
On Thursday, November 1, 2012 7:37:36 PM UTC-4, AMuzi wrote:
On 11/1/2012 6:52 AM, datakoll wrote:

On Thursday, November 1, 2012 7:46:38 AM UTC-4, datakoll wrote:

spoke clac arrives at a theoretical spoke length not a real spoke length...before adding in unknown variable eg double wall rims.







The real spoke length is shorter than the theoretcial length by 2-3-4-5 mm.







eyeyehahhhahahhahahah then you guess at it.







eyeyehahahahahhahaha







I have witnessed LBS and Mail Odor warhouse personnel believing spake clac lengths are TRUE which obviously isnot the situation.



SSSSSSSSSHHHHHHHHH



and itsa bummer you know sit down for a sculpture artsy craftsy mechanical building experience only to wind up with the wrong length spokes.



we have asked spoke clac originators...HARRIS-SHELDON BROPWN spomsor one right ?

for truth in calculating up front on the instructions without redress.



frankly these guys suck pig assholes





Well, we may indeed but OTOH we do run spoke lengths correctly.



--

Andrew Muzi

www.yellowjersey.org/

Open every day since 1 April, 1971

DDDDDDDDDDDD

Muzi supports a 'no true advice' position for spoke clac instructions ?

one answer on 'no alteration to the clac gospel' was 'he's (the software author) DEAD

well sheeeet DIG HIM UP !


Oh, I don't worship at the shrine of trigonometry, it's just
a handy way to calc an unknown spoke length quickly.

For some common builds I will advise my employee 'eleven and
19/32 inches' or something I learned years before I was
conversant in metric spoke lengths, i.e., if you actually
know it with meatware, you don't need software.

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

On Nov 1, 7:05*pm, AMuzi wrote:
On 11/1/2012 7:04 PM, datakoll wrote:









On Thursday, November 1, 2012 7:37:36 PM UTC-4, AMuzi wrote:
On 11/1/2012 6:52 AM, datakoll wrote:

On Thursday, November 1, 2012 7:46:38 AM UTC-4, datakoll wrote:

spoke clac arrives at a theoretical spoke length not a real spoke length...before adding in unknown variable eg double wall rims.

The real spoke length is shorter than the theoretcial length by 2-3-4-5 mm.

eyeyehahhhahahhahahah then you guess at it.

eyeyehahahahahhahaha

I have witnessed LBS and Mail Odor warhouse personnel believing spake clac lengths are TRUE which obviously isnot the situation.

SSSSSSSSSHHHHHHHHH

and itsa bummer you know sit down for a sculpture artsy craftsy mechanical building experience only to wind up with the wrong length spokes.

we have asked spoke clac originators...HARRIS-SHELDON BROPWN spomsor one right ?

for truth in calculating up front on the instructions without redress..

frankly these guys suck pig assholes

Well, we may indeed but OTOH we do run spoke lengths correctly.

--

Andrew Muzi

* *www.yellowjersey.org/

* *Open every day since 1 April, 1971

DDDDDDDDDDDD

Muzi supports a 'no true advice' position for spoke clac instructions ?

one answer on 'no alteration to the clac gospel' was 'he's (the software author) DEAD

well sheeeet DIG HIM UP !

Oh, I don't worship at the shrine of trigonometry, it's just
a handy way to calc an unknown spoke length quickly.

For some common builds I will advise my employee 'eleven and
19/32 inches' or something I learned years before I was
conversant in metric spoke lengths, i.e., if you actually
know it with meatware, you don't need software.

--
Andrew Muzi
* www.yellowjersey.org/
* Open every day since 1 April, 1971

"Meatware"
Never heard the term before, but I like it.
I'm afraid it is disappearing from this group.
DR

WELL COOP YAWL SEE THE PROB NO ?

but wait ? does spoke clac give spoke lengths shorter than reality or only lengths longer than reality ?

is that software important ?

to grind or not to grind

0-1-0-1-0-0-0-0 ?

et tu Sapim ?

Andrew Muzi

www.yellowjersey.org/

Open every day since 1 April, 1971

BBBBBBBBBBBBZZZZZZZ

in a court of authority.
...
if all spoke clac lengths were too long , never too short

this would be an admission of liability !

On 2 Nov, 13:00, datakoll wrote:
Andrew Muzi

* www.yellowjersey.org/

* Open every day since 1 April, 1971

BBBBBBBBBBBBZZZZZZZ

in a court of authority.
..
if all spoke clac lengths were too long , never too short

this would be an admission of liability !

The normal calculation does not allow for the bedding-in of the end of
the spoke with the hub-flange, or that of the nipple to the rim, or
the stretch that a spoke incurs when tensioned. Possibly the biggest
difficulty is obtaining the correct across the rim dimension. Do a
rim rollout and measure the depth to a spoke nipple, do some jiggery
pokery with the figures, invoke PI and Bob's your mother's brother.
Expected final tension, x-sect A and elasticty of steel can be stirred
in the hat and we can pull out a rubber chicken. With a spoke inside
the flange, the bedding in is minor and I feel it well to take it that
1mm will be the average that is taken up when one considers both sides
if the flange and both ends.

If you use two lengths on the same side, make the longer the trailing
spokes on a back wheel. They should also be inside the flange when
typically using interlaced spokes (you MUST).