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Lithium Ion vs NiMh battery
A while back I asked about using an external NiMh battery instead of an external Lithium Ion battery on a light that came with a Lithium Ion battery. Due to a problem with the Lithium Ion battery pack of mine not holding a charge or for some other reason battery related for the light suddenly going out I put a Tamiya connector onto the light's wire and used my NiMh battery.. Guess what? It works perfectly and my battery run time is a LOT longer now than what it was. Seeing as I have a few of these 5000Mah NiMh batteries from my RC boats I can now ride VERY FAR at night with no worry about the light going out suddenly or dimming drastically at low speeds or when stopped.
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#2
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Lithium Ion vs NiMh battery
On Fri, 20 Oct 2017 21:40:42 -0700 (PDT), Sir Ridesalot
wrote: A while back I asked about using an external NiMh battery instead of an external Lithium Ion battery on a light that came with a Lithium Ion battery. Due to a problem with the Lithium Ion battery pack of mine not holding a charge or for some other reason battery related for the light suddenly going out I put a Tamiya connector onto the light's wire and used my NiMh battery. Guess what? It works perfectly and my battery run time is a LOT longer now than what it was. Seeing as I have a few of these 5000Mah NiMh batteries from my RC boats I can now ride VERY FAR at night with no worry about the light going out suddenly or dimming drastically at low speeds or when stopped. Cheers You got a fake battery. Chinese sellers frequenty relabel low-capacity batteries to show something much higher. Search youtube for fake li-ion battery - lots of stuff like this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KFJUPZ0pkog For me a Chinese li-ion cell is good if it measures 3/4 the label capacity. Resellers will ship good batteries until they have a decent number of good reviews and them start shipping the crap cells. So if you buy some measure capacity right away. Document the results with photos. Then go back to eBay or Aliexpress and go through the dispute process. Works for me. --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus |
#3
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Lithium Ion vs NiMh battery
On Fri, 20 Oct 2017 21:40:42 -0700 (PDT), Sir Ridesalot
wrote: A while back I asked about using an external NiMh battery instead of an external Lithium Ion battery on a light that came with a Lithium Ion battery. Due to a problem with the Lithium Ion battery pack of mine not holding a charge or for some other reason battery related for the light suddenly going out I put a Tamiya connector onto the light's wire and used my NiMh battery. Guess what? It works perfectly and my battery run time is a LOT longer now than what it was. Seeing as I have a few of these 5000Mah NiMh batteries from my RC boats I can now ride VERY FAR at night with no worry about the light going out suddenly or dimming drastically at low speeds or when stopped. My guess(tm) is that there is either something wrong with your LiIon battery pack, or the LiIon battery pack was assembled using cheap junk LiIon cells. I've seen both, mostly from 18650 cells. Identifying counterfeit cells is difficult: https://batterybro.com/blogs/18650-wholesale-battery-reviews/104619270-can-you-identify-the-fake-lg-hg2-18650-battery I used to weigh the cells and compare them with a known good cell, but that hasn't worked since the counterfeiters started adding waxes sand to the cell to increase the weight. You NiMH substitute should work as long as the battery voltage is roughly the same and you charge the NiMH battery with a charger made for NiMH, not for LiIon. Measure the operating voltage and current going to the unspecified light and make sure you're not exceeding its ratings. Another possible problem is that the NiMH battery pack may have a higher self-discharge rate than the LiIon. If you're going for rides that require long operating time, charging before riding might be necessary. It might be interesting if you do an autopsy on the defective LiIon battery pack. Without charging the pack first, break it open or peel off the wrapping, and measure each cell voltage. My guess(tm) is that you'll find most of the cells at around 3.5VDC, and one cell measuring zero volts. -- Jeff Liebermann 150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558 |
#4
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Lithium Ion vs NiMh battery
On 2017-10-21 09:52, somebody wrote:
On Fri, 20 Oct 2017 21:40:42 -0700 (PDT), Sir Ridesalot wrote: A while back I asked about using an external NiMh battery instead of an external Lithium Ion battery on a light that came with a Lithium Ion battery. Due to a problem with the Lithium Ion battery pack of mine not holding a charge or for some other reason battery related for the light suddenly going out I put a Tamiya connector onto the light's wire and used my NiMh battery. Guess what? It works perfectly and my battery run time is a LOT longer now than what it was. Seeing as I have a few of these 5000Mah NiMh batteries from my RC boats I can now ride VERY FAR at night with no worry about the light going out suddenly or dimming drastically at low speeds or when stopped. As others have said you got taken to the cleaners with the Li-Ion batteries. The energy density of NiMH is a far cry from that of Li-Ion. That goes for weight and size. Li-Ion is roughly a factor of two better in both domains. http://www.epectec.com/batteries/cell-comparison.html Therefore, I have now equipped both bikes with Li-Ion. The road bike has eight 18650 cells, the MTB has four because I need full brightness less often. The lights are the same and consume about 8W on highest power. On the road bike I can ride 4-5h with the ship fully lit. Cheers You got a fake battery. Chinese sellers frequenty relabel low-capacity batteries to show something much higher. Search youtube for fake li-ion battery - lots of stuff like this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KFJUPZ0pkog For me a Chinese li-ion cell is good if it measures 3/4 the label capacity. No kidding, sometimes way less than half. The topper so far was a four-cell Li-Ion pack from China that cut out after less than 1.5h on hi-beam. Opened it and two cells had no (!) connections. They seemed to have sand in them. I have heard that some Chinese vendors re-use 18650 cells plucked from recycled electronics shipped in from the US and other Western countries. They supposedly sell them in "new" shrink-wrap battery blocks. Resellers will ship good batteries until they have a decent number of good reviews and them start shipping the crap cells. So if you buy some measure capacity right away. Document the results with photos. Then go back to eBay or Aliexpress and go through the dispute process. Works for me. Except for that first one where I received a full refund I have to say that even Chinese Li-Ion batteries run circles around NiMH. My current ones are from a "brand" I believe is called "Tangsfire" and their capacity is close to what the labels read. -- Regards, Joerg http://www.analogconsultants.com/ |
#5
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Lithium Ion vs NiMh battery
On Saturday, October 21, 2017 at 12:12:59 PM UTC-7, Joerg wrote:
On 2017-10-21 09:52, somebody wrote: On Fri, 20 Oct 2017 21:40:42 -0700 (PDT), Sir Ridesalot wrote: A while back I asked about using an external NiMh battery instead of an external Lithium Ion battery on a light that came with a Lithium Ion battery. Due to a problem with the Lithium Ion battery pack of mine not holding a charge or for some other reason battery related for the light suddenly going out I put a Tamiya connector onto the light's wire and used my NiMh battery. Guess what? It works perfectly and my battery run time is a LOT longer now than what it was. Seeing as I have a few of these 5000Mah NiMh batteries from my RC boats I can now ride VERY FAR at night with no worry about the light going out suddenly or dimming drastically at low speeds or when stopped. As others have said you got taken to the cleaners with the Li-Ion batteries. The energy density of NiMH is a far cry from that of Li-Ion. That goes for weight and size. Li-Ion is roughly a factor of two better in both domains. http://www.epectec.com/batteries/cell-comparison.html Therefore, I have now equipped both bikes with Li-Ion. The road bike has eight 18650 cells, the MTB has four because I need full brightness less often. The lights are the same and consume about 8W on highest power. On the road bike I can ride 4-5h with the ship fully lit. Cheers You got a fake battery. Chinese sellers frequenty relabel low-capacity batteries to show something much higher. Search youtube for fake li-ion battery - lots of stuff like this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KFJUPZ0pkog For me a Chinese li-ion cell is good if it measures 3/4 the label capacity. No kidding, sometimes way less than half. The topper so far was a four-cell Li-Ion pack from China that cut out after less than 1.5h on hi-beam. Opened it and two cells had no (!) connections. They seemed to have sand in them. I have heard that some Chinese vendors re-use 18650 cells plucked from recycled electronics shipped in from the US and other Western countries. They supposedly sell them in "new" shrink-wrap battery blocks. Resellers will ship good batteries until they have a decent number of good reviews and them start shipping the crap cells. So if you buy some measure capacity right away. Document the results with photos. Then go back to eBay or Aliexpress and go through the dispute process. Works for me. Except for that first one where I received a full refund I have to say that even Chinese Li-Ion batteries run circles around NiMH. My current ones are from a "brand" I believe is called "Tangsfire" and their capacity is close to what the labels read. They're pretty close to having lithium metal cells now and they will have both a higher storage and little to no chance of exploding. |
#7
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Lithium Ion vs NiMh battery
Here's my source for Panasonic 18650 LI cells:
https://liionwholesale.com/?refer1=a...RoCFkgQAvD_BwE Support a good American distributor selling tested and verified batteries, at competitive prices even for small quantities. They also sell the 6 cell LUC brand charger and 4 bay Opus analyzer/charger. These test out in my Opus tester/charger at 3500+mAH in both charging and discharging. I test charging at 2A and drain at 1A,the Opus' limit. Burn time in the light is measured at each step from 9A max (in the 3000Extreme) down to 70mA. My 26650 come in large quantities through a direct rep from Heter, a humongous scale better maker in China who makes many cells for other big brand name electronic companies, who are considered to make their own, but don't. Minimum quantities in the 1000 lot size for the measured 5500mAH unbranded ones I get for the Oculus lights and sell competitively versus the Chinesium crap. Maybe ~1 in 100 might not be up to spec, and only two out of 1000 have been DOA. The blue Tenergy brand 26650, unchipped, sold in Fry's, with a black seal around the + end contact, are likely the same but at Fry's much higher retail price, but never know the true capacity without testing, draining, recharging, repeatedly for at least a hundred cycles. Another problem with Chinesium is that they tend not to last nearly as many charge cycles as authentic first quality batteries, regardless of the capacity when allegedly new. That versus one of the Heter's I've been charging and draining almost daily since February, that still test charges at 5500mAH. |
#8
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Lithium Ion vs NiMh battery
"Joerg" wrote in message ... On 2017-10-21 12:18, wrote: On Saturday, October 21, 2017 at 12:12:59 PM UTC-7, Joerg wrote: On 2017-10-21 09:52, somebody wrote: On Fri, 20 Oct 2017 21:40:42 -0700 (PDT), Sir Ridesalot wrote: A while back I asked about using an external NiMh battery instead of an external Lithium Ion battery on a light that came with a Lithium Ion battery. Due to a problem with the Lithium Ion battery pack of mine not holding a charge or for some other reason battery related for the light suddenly going out I put a Tamiya connector onto the light's wire and used my NiMh battery. Guess what? It works perfectly and my battery run time is a LOT longer now than what it was. Seeing as I have a few of these 5000Mah NiMh batteries from my RC boats I can now ride VERY FAR at night with no worry about the light going out suddenly or dimming drastically at low speeds or when stopped. As others have said you got taken to the cleaners with the Li-Ion batteries. The energy density of NiMH is a far cry from that of Li-Ion. That goes for weight and size. Li-Ion is roughly a factor of two better in both domains. http://www.epectec.com/batteries/cell-comparison.html Therefore, I have now equipped both bikes with Li-Ion. The road bike has eight 18650 cells, the MTB has four because I need full brightness less often. The lights are the same and consume about 8W on highest power. On the road bike I can ride 4-5h with the ship fully lit. Cheers You got a fake battery. Chinese sellers frequenty relabel low-capacity batteries to show something much higher. Search youtube for fake li-ion battery - lots of stuff like this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KFJUPZ0pkog For me a Chinese li-ion cell is good if it measures 3/4 the label capacity. No kidding, sometimes way less than half. The topper so far was a four-cell Li-Ion pack from China that cut out after less than 1.5h on hi-beam. Opened it and two cells had no (!) connections. They seemed to have sand in them. I have heard that some Chinese vendors re-use 18650 cells plucked from recycled electronics shipped in from the US and other Western countries. They supposedly sell them in "new" shrink-wrap battery blocks. Resellers will ship good batteries until they have a decent number of good reviews and them start shipping the crap cells. So if you buy some measure capacity right away. Document the results with photos. Then go back to eBay or Aliexpress and go through the dispute process. Works for me. Except for that first one where I received a full refund I have to say that even Chinese Li-Ion batteries run circles around NiMH. My current ones are from a "brand" I believe is called "Tangsfire" and their capacity is close to what the labels read. They're pretty close to having lithium metal cells now and they will have both a higher storage and little to no chance of exploding. That would be nice. I remember a story where a cyclist strained to catch up to another rider, to tell him that the little bag under his seat was on fire. You can't just use any old lithium battery with any old charger. Full terminal voltage is critical and its not a good idea to leave them float charging longer than the topping charge period. Early cells called for 4.1V, but most are 4.2V now - a while back I encountered a cell with 4.3V specified on the data sheet. |
#9
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Lithium Ion vs NiMh battery
"Jeff Liebermann" wrote in message ... On Fri, 20 Oct 2017 21:40:42 -0700 (PDT), Sir Ridesalot wrote: A while back I asked about using an external NiMh battery instead of an external Lithium Ion battery on a light that came with a Lithium Ion battery. Due to a problem with the Lithium Ion battery pack of mine not holding a charge or for some other reason battery related for the light suddenly going out I put a Tamiya connector onto the light's wire and used my NiMh battery. Guess what? It works perfectly and my battery run time is a LOT longer now than what it was. Seeing as I have a few of these 5000Mah NiMh batteries from my RC boats I can now ride VERY FAR at night with no worry about the light going out suddenly or dimming drastically at low speeds or when stopped. My guess(tm) is that there is either something wrong with your LiIon battery pack, or the LiIon battery pack was assembled using cheap junk LiIon cells. I've seen both, mostly from 18650 cells. Identifying counterfeit cells is difficult: https://batterybro.com/blogs/18650-wholesale-battery-reviews/104619270-can-you-identify-the-fake-lg-hg2-18650-battery I used to weigh the cells and compare them with a known good cell, but that hasn't worked since the counterfeiters started adding waxes sand to the cell to increase the weight. All my 18650s were rescued from discarded laptop packs - if I get any duds, there's no point complaining to anyone. The 3W Tesco headlamp uses one, but my biggest application is my e cigarette. That's been in service well over 5yrs and I've only had to swap out a couple of battery sets. The one that came with the Tesco unit is only 1800mAh - I get a lot more running time from salvaged cells. |
#10
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Lithium Ion vs NiMh battery
On 22/10/17 11:31, Oculus Lights wrote:
Here's my source for Panasonic 18650 LI cells: https://liionwholesale.com/?refer1=a...RoCFkgQAvD_BwE Support a good American distributor selling tested and verified batteries, at competitive prices even for small quantities. They also sell the 6 cell LUC brand charger and 4 bay Opus analyzer/charger. These test out in my Opus tester/charger at 3500+mAH in both charging and discharging. I test charging at 2A and drain at 1A,the Opus' limit. Burn time in the light is measured at each step from 9A max (in the 3000Extreme) down to 70mA. My 26650 come in large quantities through a direct rep from Heter, a humongous scale better maker in China who makes many cells for other big brand name electronic companies, who are considered to make their own, but don't. Minimum quantities in the 1000 lot size for the measured 5500mAH unbranded ones I get for the Oculus lights and sell competitively versus the Chinesium crap. Maybe ~1 in 100 might not be up to spec, and only two out of 1000 have been DOA. The blue Tenergy brand 26650, unchipped, sold in Fry's, with a black seal around the + end contact, are likely the same but at Fry's much higher retail price, but never know the true capacity without testing, draining, recharging, repeatedly for at least a hundred cycles. Another problem with Chinesium is that they tend not to last nearly as many charge cycles as authentic first quality batteries, regardless of the capacity when allegedly new. That versus one of the Heter's I've been charging and draining almost daily since February, that still test charges at 5500mAH. The battery for my light went flat the other day so I ate a banana, drank some water, and it was recharged. (Dynamo users humour) -- JS |
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