click in pedals, and grease vs. anti-sieze

On Sat, 19 Apr 2014 07:34:44 -0500, AMuzi wrote:

On 4/18/2014 10:45 PM, John B. wrote:
On Fri, 18 Apr 2014 21:31:54 +0200, Ned Mantei
wrote:

Last fall I replaced the cranks and pedals on my everyday bike (with LX
cranks and bottom bracket, and pedals like
these:http://www.veloplus.ch/AlleProdukte/...vonWellgo.aspx
). The pedals are obviously not the most expensive, but I still expected
them to be O.K. for everyday use. I have always used regular grease when
assembling such things, but this time, at the suggestion of the
salesman, used anti-sieze paste. Recently the pedals began to "click"
when pedaling hard. Loosening and retightening them didn't help. Finally
I applied grease to the threads, and now the clicking has stopped.

This leads me to wonder how much play there could have been in the
connection between crank and pedal axle. There was nothing detectable
"by hand", there was no damage to the threads, and the axle threads
engaged perfectly fine when screwing the pedals onto the cranks. Is it
reasonable that undamaged threads could still have enough play to give a
slight movement (and click)? Is the difference between grease vs.
anti-sieze paste just a matter of how much was applied?

I am reminded of Jobst Brandt's argument that the basic design of the
pedal-crank connection is faulty. He argued for a conical depression on
the crank, and a corresponding conical outcropping on the pedal nut,
similar to what is used for bolting on wheels of cars and trucks.

Ned

Firstly, look at the surface of the crank around the hole that the
pedals screw into. If there is a fretted circle showing actual wear on
the crank, then it is probably that the pedal axle did move.
But if only a discolored circle showing that the pedal was tightened
well, then not.

By the way, the most frequent problem with the one piece steel
"Ashtabula" crank is the pedal axle rusts solidly into the crank and
resisting nobly any efforts to remove it :-)



Heat the very end of the crank (thinnest section) which will
expand faster than the spindle. Unscrew while red hot, works
every time.

Good God! There's one bloke telling me that I'm not smart enough to
drill a hole in a bicycle tube to install a rev-nut and now here's
another telling me to play with fire :-)
--
Cheers,

John B.

On Sunday, April 20, 2014 1:12:39 AM UTC-4, John B. wrote:
On Sat, 19 Apr 2014 07:34:44 -0500, AMuzi wrote:



On 4/18/2014 10:45 PM, John B. wrote:

On Fri, 18 Apr 2014 21:31:54 +0200, Ned Mantei

wrote:



Last fall I replaced the cranks and pedals on my everyday bike (with LX

cranks and bottom bracket, and pedals like

these:http://www.veloplus.ch/AlleProdukte/...vonWellgo.aspx

). The pedals are obviously not the most expensive, but I still expected

them to be O.K. for everyday use. I have always used regular grease when

assembling such things, but this time, at the suggestion of the

salesman, used anti-sieze paste. Recently the pedals began to "click"

when pedaling hard. Loosening and retightening them didn't help. Finally

I applied grease to the threads, and now the clicking has stopped.



This leads me to wonder how much play there could have been in the

connection between crank and pedal axle. There was nothing detectable

"by hand", there was no damage to the threads, and the axle threads

engaged perfectly fine when screwing the pedals onto the cranks. Is it

reasonable that undamaged threads could still have enough play to give a

slight movement (and click)? Is the difference between grease vs.

anti-sieze paste just a matter of how much was applied?



I am reminded of Jobst Brandt's argument that the basic design of the

pedal-crank connection is faulty. He argued for a conical depression on

the crank, and a corresponding conical outcropping on the pedal nut,

similar to what is used for bolting on wheels of cars and trucks.



Ned



Firstly, look at the surface of the crank around the hole that the

pedals screw into. If there is a fretted circle showing actual wear on

the crank, then it is probably that the pedal axle did move.

But if only a discolored circle showing that the pedal was tightened

well, then not.



By the way, the most frequent problem with the one piece steel

"Ashtabula" crank is the pedal axle rusts solidly into the crank and

resisting nobly any efforts to remove it :-)







Heat the very end of the crank (thinnest section) which will

expand faster than the spindle. Unscrew while red hot, works

every time.



Good God! There's one bloke telling me that I'm not smart enough to

drill a hole in a bicycle tube to install a rev-nut and now here's

another telling me to play with fire :-)

--

Cheers,



John B.

HHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH

Why is ham for He Stir ?
Or research team fanned out finding ham is it because pigs doahn sweat.
NO ! YES ! Pigs wander down to the desert waterhole to cool off n **** in the water. YACH. Annoying all desert peoples eg Arabs n Jews.
Ban pigs. Like Love Canal.
Lacking Xbox, religious organizations needed gear for the Easter/Pagan Spring celebration of rebirth so naturally they gathered to eat lunch.
Inviting new participants, Christian bureaucracy allowed people to eat pork or whatever.
Ham was the basic available meat during spring unless you went for fish but you now fish right...no lemons until Fall.
The hams were....assuming your upper middle class...sitting in the chimney all winter absorbing creosote...there for Easter.
Ham was the only available meat.
Pigs doahn sweat.

On Sunday, April 20, 2014 5:31:15 AM UTC-7, x wrote:
On Sunday, April 20, 2014 1:12:39 AM UTC-4, John B. wrote:
On Sat, 19 Apr 2014 07:34:44 -0500, AMuzi wrote:
On 4/18/2014 10:45 PM, John B. wrote:


By the way, the most frequent problem with the one piece steel
"Ashtabula" crank is the pedal axle rusts solidly into the crank and
resisting nobly any efforts to remove it :-)

Heat the very end of the crank (thinnest section) which will
expand faster than the spindle. Unscrew while red hot, works
every time.

Good God! There's one bloke telling me that I'm not smart enough to
drill a hole in a bicycle tube to install a rev-nut and now here's
another telling me to play with fire :-)

Why is ham for He Stir ?

Or research team fanned out finding ham is it because pigs doahn sweat.

NO ! YES ! Pigs wander down to the desert waterhole to cool off n **** in the water. YACH. Annoying all desert peoples eg Arabs n Jews.

Ban pigs. Like Love Canal.

Lacking Xbox, religious organizations needed gear for the Easter/Pagan Spring celebration of rebirth so naturally they gathered to eat lunch.

Inviting new participants, Christian bureaucracy allowed people to eat pork or whatever.

Ham was the basic available meat during spring unless you went for fish but you now fish right...no lemons until Fall.

The hams were....assuming your upper middle class...sitting in the chimney all winter absorbing creosote...there for Easter.

Ham was the only available meat.

Pigs doahn sweat.

I started reading The New Testament out of curiosity. Got to
the part early on about how Jesus rescued a herd of pigs that
were "possessed by demons" by driving them into the lake to
drown.

Our hero. (I suppose he meant well.)

Four legs good.

Was reading the Gideons just the other day out of curiosity.
(All that about the firmament and He saw it was good, etc.)
Got a little past the part about us being special (in His
image) and our "Dominion" and all that. Yeah, right.

(Had no idea Noah's ark figured so early in the story. I
thought sure that came after the dinosaurs and stuff.)

Ants just *love* those little sugar-coated marshmallow bunnies.

I get a kick out of how Easter occurs on the first Sunday after
the first full moon after the Vernal Equinox - *except*... maybe
not - if the old time Ecclesiastes calendar got that wrong, then
hang Galileo and pass the ham.

Dilbert and Pastis comment on Easter in the 21C both Digital West Coasters


http://news.yahoo.com/comics/pearls-...ine-slideshow/


the driving out never ends...remember the 'sin eater' shtick ?

everyone dies for your sins.

unless that's inconvenient.

On Sun, 20 Apr 2014 10:16:28 -0700 (PDT), Dan O
wrote:

On Sunday, April 20, 2014 5:31:15 AM UTC-7, x wrote:
On Sunday, April 20, 2014 1:12:39 AM UTC-4, John B. wrote:
On Sat, 19 Apr 2014 07:34:44 -0500, AMuzi wrote:
On 4/18/2014 10:45 PM, John B. wrote:


By the way, the most frequent problem with the one piece steel
"Ashtabula" crank is the pedal axle rusts solidly into the crank and
resisting nobly any efforts to remove it :-)

Heat the very end of the crank (thinnest section) which will
expand faster than the spindle. Unscrew while red hot, works
every time.

Good God! There's one bloke telling me that I'm not smart enough to
drill a hole in a bicycle tube to install a rev-nut and now here's
another telling me to play with fire :-)

Why is ham for He Stir ?

Or research team fanned out finding ham is it because pigs doahn sweat.

NO ! YES ! Pigs wander down to the desert waterhole to cool off n **** in the water. YACH. Annoying all desert peoples eg Arabs n Jews.

Ban pigs. Like Love Canal.

Lacking Xbox, religious organizations needed gear for the Easter/Pagan Spring celebration of rebirth so naturally they gathered to eat lunch.

Inviting new participants, Christian bureaucracy allowed people to eat pork or whatever.

Ham was the basic available meat during spring unless you went for fish but you now fish right...no lemons until Fall.

The hams were....assuming your upper middle class...sitting in the chimney all winter absorbing creosote...there for Easter.

Ham was the only available meat.

Pigs doahn sweat.

I started reading The New Testament out of curiosity. Got to
the part early on about how Jesus rescued a herd of pigs that
were "possessed by demons" by driving them into the lake to
drown.

Our hero. (I suppose he meant well.)

Four legs good.

That is sort of strange as pigs were specified as unclean in
the Book of Leviticus which was written between 1440 and 1400 B.C so
certainly by Jesus' time there wouldn't have been herds of pigs in a
Jewish area, one wouldn't think.

Perhaps the pigs belonged to the Goyim and that's why the demons were
turned lose on them :-)

--
Cheers,

John B.

On 4/21/2014 8:11 AM, John B. wrote:
On Sun, 20 Apr 2014 10:16:28 -0700 (PDT), Dan O
wrote:

On Sunday, April 20, 2014 5:31:15 AM UTC-7, x wrote:
On Sunday, April 20, 2014 1:12:39 AM UTC-4, John B. wrote:
On Sat, 19 Apr 2014 07:34:44 -0500, AMuzi wrote:
On 4/18/2014 10:45 PM, John B. wrote:


By the way, the most frequent problem with the one piece steel
"Ashtabula" crank is the pedal axle rusts solidly into the crank and
resisting nobly any efforts to remove it :-)

Heat the very end of the crank (thinnest section) which will
expand faster than the spindle. Unscrew while red hot, works
every time.

Good God! There's one bloke telling me that I'm not smart enough to
drill a hole in a bicycle tube to install a rev-nut and now here's
another telling me to play with fire :-)

Why is ham for He Stir ?

Or research team fanned out finding ham is it because pigs doahn sweat.

NO ! YES ! Pigs wander down to the desert waterhole to cool off n **** in the water. YACH. Annoying all desert peoples eg Arabs n Jews.

Ban pigs. Like Love Canal.

Lacking Xbox, religious organizations needed gear for the Easter/Pagan Spring celebration of rebirth so naturally they gathered to eat lunch.

Inviting new participants, Christian bureaucracy allowed people to eat pork or whatever.

Ham was the basic available meat during spring unless you went for fish but you now fish right...no lemons until Fall.

The hams were....assuming your upper middle class...sitting in the chimney all winter absorbing creosote...there for Easter.

Ham was the only available meat.

Pigs doahn sweat.

I started reading The New Testament out of curiosity. Got to
the part early on about how Jesus rescued a herd of pigs that
were "possessed by demons" by driving them into the lake to
drown.

Our hero. (I suppose he meant well.)

Four legs good.

That is sort of strange as pigs were specified as unclean in
the Book of Leviticus which was written between 1440 and 1400 B.C so
certainly by Jesus' time there wouldn't have been herds of pigs in a
Jewish area, one wouldn't think.

Perhaps the pigs belonged to the Goyim and that's why the demons were
turned lose on them :-)


Jewish area? Not so much after Pompey.

Ever read Cicero's paean to pork? One might imagine he was
snacking on bacon while scribbling. Romans ate mostly pork,
not much beef.

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

On Mon, 21 Apr 2014 08:40:05 -0500, AMuzi wrote:

On 4/21/2014 8:11 AM, John B. wrote:
On Sun, 20 Apr 2014 10:16:28 -0700 (PDT), Dan O
wrote:

On Sunday, April 20, 2014 5:31:15 AM UTC-7, x wrote:
On Sunday, April 20, 2014 1:12:39 AM UTC-4, John B. wrote:
On Sat, 19 Apr 2014 07:34:44 -0500, AMuzi wrote:
On 4/18/2014 10:45 PM, John B. wrote:


By the way, the most frequent problem with the one piece steel
"Ashtabula" crank is the pedal axle rusts solidly into the crank and
resisting nobly any efforts to remove it :-)

Heat the very end of the crank (thinnest section) which will
expand faster than the spindle. Unscrew while red hot, works
every time.

Good God! There's one bloke telling me that I'm not smart enough to
drill a hole in a bicycle tube to install a rev-nut and now here's
another telling me to play with fire :-)

Why is ham for He Stir ?

Or research team fanned out finding ham is it because pigs doahn sweat.

NO ! YES ! Pigs wander down to the desert waterhole to cool off n **** in the water. YACH. Annoying all desert peoples eg Arabs n Jews.

Ban pigs. Like Love Canal.

Lacking Xbox, religious organizations needed gear for the Easter/Pagan Spring celebration of rebirth so naturally they gathered to eat lunch.

Inviting new participants, Christian bureaucracy allowed people to eat pork or whatever.

Ham was the basic available meat during spring unless you went for fish but you now fish right...no lemons until Fall.

The hams were....assuming your upper middle class...sitting in the chimney all winter absorbing creosote...there for Easter.

Ham was the only available meat.

Pigs doahn sweat.

I started reading The New Testament out of curiosity. Got to
the part early on about how Jesus rescued a herd of pigs that
were "possessed by demons" by driving them into the lake to
drown.

Our hero. (I suppose he meant well.)

Four legs good.

That is sort of strange as pigs were specified as unclean in
the Book of Leviticus which was written between 1440 and 1400 B.C so
certainly by Jesus' time there wouldn't have been herds of pigs in a
Jewish area, one wouldn't think.

Perhaps the pigs belonged to the Goyim and that's why the demons were
turned lose on them :-)


Jewish area? Not so much after Pompey.

Ever read Cicero's paean to pork? One might imagine he was
snacking on bacon while scribbling. Romans ate mostly pork,
not much beef.

Ah yes, the Romans. But apparently the Jews were able to coerce the
Romans into doing what the Jews wanted in many cases. Getting rid of a
bothersome prophet, for example.

But I've read somewhere, Caesar's writings perhaps, that the Roman
soldiers ate little meat. If memory serves, I remember something about
"they were unhappy to eat meat due to the lack of supplies". and, of
course we also have the theme of "Bread and Circus" :-)
--
Cheers,

John B.

On Friday, April 18, 2014 9:31:54 PM UTC+2, Ned Mantei wrote:
Last fall I replaced the cranks and pedals on my everyday bike (with LX

cranks and bottom bracket, and pedals like

these:http://www.veloplus.ch/AlleProdukte/...vonWellgo.aspx

). The pedals are obviously not the most expensive, but I still expected

them to be O.K. for everyday use. I have always used regular grease when

assembling such things, but this time, at the suggestion of the

salesman, used anti-sieze paste. Recently the pedals began to "click"

when pedaling hard. Loosening and retightening them didn't help. Finally

I applied grease to the threads, and now the clicking has stopped.



This leads me to wonder how much play there could have been in the

connection between crank and pedal axle. There was nothing detectable

"by hand", there was no damage to the threads, and the axle threads

engaged perfectly fine when screwing the pedals onto the cranks. Is it

reasonable that undamaged threads could still have enough play to give a

slight movement (and click)? Is the difference between grease vs.

anti-sieze paste just a matter of how much was applied?



I am reminded of Jobst Brandt's argument that the basic design of the

pedal-crank connection is faulty. He argued for a conical depression on

the crank, and a corresponding conical outcropping on the pedal nut,

similar to what is used for bolting on wheels of cars and trucks.



Ned

Not only grease the threads but also make sure there is grease on the surface of the axle that rests against the crank. Anti seize or grease doesn't matter.

Lou

On 4/22/2014 2:55 AM, John B. wrote:
On Mon, 21 Apr 2014 08:40:05 -0500, AMuzi wrote:

On 4/21/2014 8:11 AM, John B. wrote:
On Sun, 20 Apr 2014 10:16:28 -0700 (PDT), Dan O
wrote:

On Sunday, April 20, 2014 5:31:15 AM UTC-7, x wrote:
On Sunday, April 20, 2014 1:12:39 AM UTC-4, John B. wrote:
On Sat, 19 Apr 2014 07:34:44 -0500, AMuzi wrote:
On 4/18/2014 10:45 PM, John B. wrote:


By the way, the most frequent problem with the one piece steel
"Ashtabula" crank is the pedal axle rusts solidly into the crank and
resisting nobly any efforts to remove it :-)

Heat the very end of the crank (thinnest section) which will
expand faster than the spindle. Unscrew while red hot, works
every time.

Good God! There's one bloke telling me that I'm not smart enough to
drill a hole in a bicycle tube to install a rev-nut and now here's
another telling me to play with fire :-)

Why is ham for He Stir ?

Or research team fanned out finding ham is it because pigs doahn sweat.

NO ! YES ! Pigs wander down to the desert waterhole to cool off n **** in the water. YACH. Annoying all desert peoples eg Arabs n Jews.

Ban pigs. Like Love Canal.

Lacking Xbox, religious organizations needed gear for the Easter/Pagan Spring celebration of rebirth so naturally they gathered to eat lunch.

Inviting new participants, Christian bureaucracy allowed people to eat pork or whatever.

Ham was the basic available meat during spring unless you went for fish but you now fish right...no lemons until Fall.

The hams were....assuming your upper middle class...sitting in the chimney all winter absorbing creosote...there for Easter.

Ham was the only available meat.

Pigs doahn sweat.

I started reading The New Testament out of curiosity. Got to
the part early on about how Jesus rescued a herd of pigs that
were "possessed by demons" by driving them into the lake to
drown.

Our hero. (I suppose he meant well.)

Four legs good.

That is sort of strange as pigs were specified as unclean in
the Book of Leviticus which was written between 1440 and 1400 B.C so
certainly by Jesus' time there wouldn't have been herds of pigs in a
Jewish area, one wouldn't think.

Perhaps the pigs belonged to the Goyim and that's why the demons were
turned lose on them :-)


Jewish area? Not so much after Pompey.

Ever read Cicero's paean to pork? One might imagine he was
snacking on bacon while scribbling. Romans ate mostly pork,
not much beef.

Ah yes, the Romans. But apparently the Jews were able to coerce the
Romans into doing what the Jews wanted in many cases. Getting rid of a
bothersome prophet, for example.

But I've read somewhere, Caesar's writings perhaps, that the Roman
soldiers ate little meat. If memory serves, I remember something about
"they were unhappy to eat meat due to the lack of supplies". and, of
course we also have the theme of "Bread and Circus" :-)


Yes, a balanced diet is best. See also the Fremont
Expedition who were snowbound with pack mules the only food
resulting in malnutrition deaths despite ample meat.

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

On Monday, April 21, 2014 9:11:35 AM UTC-4, John B. wrote:
On Sun, 20 Apr 2014 10:16:28 -0700 (PDT), Dan O

wrote:



On Sunday, April 20, 2014 5:31:15 AM UTC-7, x wrote:

On Sunday, April 20, 2014 1:12:39 AM UTC-4, John B. wrote:

On Sat, 19 Apr 2014 07:34:44 -0500, AMuzi wrote:

On 4/18/2014 10:45 PM, John B. wrote:





By the way, the most frequent problem with the one piece steel

"Ashtabula" crank is the pedal axle rusts solidly into the crank and

resisting nobly any efforts to remove it :-)



Heat the very end of the crank (thinnest section) which will

expand faster than the spindle. Unscrew while red hot, works

every time.



Good God! There's one bloke telling me that I'm not smart enough to

drill a hole in a bicycle tube to install a rev-nut and now here's

another telling me to play with fire :-)



Why is ham for He Stir ?



Or research team fanned out finding ham is it because pigs doahn sweat.



NO ! YES ! Pigs wander down to the desert waterhole to cool off n **** in the water. YACH. Annoying all desert peoples eg Arabs n Jews.



Ban pigs. Like Love Canal.



Lacking Xbox, religious organizations needed gear for the Easter/Pagan Spring celebration of rebirth so naturally they gathered to eat lunch.



Inviting new participants, Christian bureaucracy allowed people to eat pork or whatever.



Ham was the basic available meat during spring unless you went for fish but you now fish right...no lemons until Fall.



The hams were....assuming your upper middle class...sitting in the chimney all winter absorbing creosote...there for Easter.



Ham was the only available meat.



Pigs doahn sweat.



I started reading The New Testament out of curiosity. Got to

the part early on about how Jesus rescued a herd of pigs that

were "possessed by demons" by driving them into the lake to

drown.



Our hero. (I suppose he meant well.)



Four legs good.



That is sort of strange as pigs were specified as unclean in

the Book of Leviticus which was written between 1440 and 1400 B.C so

certainly by Jesus' time there wouldn't have been herds of pigs in a

Jewish area, one wouldn't think.



Perhaps the pigs belonged to the Goyim and that's why the demons were

turned lose on them :-)



--

Cheers,



John B.

NNNNNNNNNNNNNNN

GNAW SAME THINKING supporting grease use for pedal shafts not LOCKTITE thus solving all (most) shafting probs. You leave out data. negative.

What Jews or Arabs or Romans were doing or not with pork....memory was they were doing A with pork so if we not gonna be Arab or Jewish then we're gonna do the opposite.

Romans structured to success then ossified. Sendum to Germany for the winter.

or Wisconsin

Holtman using grease is incroyable. Sendum to Modena