taking the lane No. 3674b

On 4/22/2014 10:47 AM, Clive George wrote:
On 21/04/2014 16:24, Frank Krygowski wrote:
Let's temporarily ignore those factors and consider only climate. Much
of the U.S. has just come through a winter so brutal that even the most
dedicated utility cyclists had their bikes parked for weeks or months.
They used cars to get around. And that happens for at least a week or
two almost every winter.

So what should a typical cyclist in (say) Buffalo NY do in winter? He
can't take public transportation while there's a foot of snow on the
ground, because the public transportation barely exists; it can require
over an hour to get across town. So what a cyclist does is drive his
car. That means he has to own a car at _least_ for winter use.

What you're describing is a ****ty scenario, and that exists because
people will take the car option first. You need to work on improving
other means of transport.

1) Get public transport in place.
2) Prepare the bike paths and have a winter bike

It's not easy, and will take long term effort, but it's something you
should be aiming towards rather than simply saying "No, it's
impossible". In this case what you see as Dan's deluded optimism is
actually what is needed, rather than what I see as you pretty much
giving up on improving things for anything but cars. (you oppose most
infrastructure, but the car infrastructure will carry on growing)

You're not in Copenhagen, but that doesn't mean you shouldn't try.

I can accept that really good public transportation is a prerequisite to
(eventually) getting a high bicycle modal share. That is, it's
necessary, although it's far from sufficient.

However, I'll point out that - in America, at least - nobody else seems
to be saying that. Those pushing for segregated bike infrastructure are
claiming or implying that the infra is all that's necessary. "Build it
and they will come" is sometimes used as a sort of motivational cheer
among that crowd, but it's only about building things like bike lanes or
bike paths or cycletracks.

Personally, I'd be greatly in favor of excellent public transport.
There are three or four places I must regularly go that are each an hour
away by car. I'd love to hop on a train to get there, taking my bike
along. But even getting decent bus service is difficult in most of the
U.S. I think the fundamental problem is that so much of the population
lives in low-density suburbs, which were designed assuming access to
cars. It's hard to economically serve them with public transit.

Still, if people choose to promote public transit as their mission in
life (and I know one guy who does), I say more power to them. Some day,
decades from now, they may make a real difference.

I'm concentrating on shorter term goals. I believe that by some
education and some publicity, it's possible to make things better almost
immediately for those who do choose to cycle in the present environment.
Which is why, as soon as I type this, I'm off to a local print shop to
run off some simple educational material our bike club is going to
distribute via local bike shops.

--
- Frank Krygowski

Per Frank Krygowski:
Personally, I'd be greatly in favor of excellent public transport.
There are three or four places I must regularly go that are each an hour
away by car. I'd love to hop on a train to get there, taking my bike
along.

Is there any place in the world where a significant percent of the
population carries a bike on public transit?

We have bike racks on the local buses (Philadelphia PA, USA) and I
cannot recall the last time I saw a bike in one of those racks.

When I have an appointment downtown, I'll take the train - which allows
bikes during off-hours - but I don't think I have ever been in a car
with more than one other bike rider, and usually I am alone.
--
Pete Cresswell

Return of Cresswell, Ford Owner...


Yo, when you take your bike for an apt the rack will heave to filled with $50MTB

On 4/22/2014 4:08 PM, (PeteCresswell) wrote:
Per Frank Krygowski:
Personally, I'd be greatly in favor of excellent public transport.
There are three or four places I must regularly go that are each an hour
away by car. I'd love to hop on a train to get there, taking my bike
along.

Is there any place in the world where a significant percent of the
population carries a bike on public transit?

We have bike racks on the local buses (Philadelphia PA, USA) and I
cannot recall the last time I saw a bike in one of those racks.

When I have an appointment downtown, I'll take the train - which allows
bikes during off-hours - but I don't think I have ever been in a car
with more than one other bike rider, and usually I am alone.

I don't know about a significant percentage, but I know I've ridden
Portland's light rail line many times and usually seen a few bikes on
board.

Back when a special ticket was required (it's not any more, AFAIK) I got
the ticket to permit me to put my bike on their bus racks. I never used
it, myself, but I saw others using those racks.

I don't get out to Portland nearly as often as I used to, and these
days, the bike I'd take would be a folder. That can work very well with
trains, buses, streetcars, etc.

But your right, bikes on public transit are hardly the norm.


--
- Frank Krygowski

Florida racks are filled, train or bus.

On Tuesday, April 22, 2014 7:08:09 PM UTC-4, DATAKOLL MARINE RESEARCH wrote:
Florida racks are filled, train or bus.

https://www.google.com/search?site=i...51.bekbvMqYFVk

https://www.google.com/search?site=i...ack &tbm=isch

https://www.google.com/search?site=i...ml%3B654%3B368

https://www.google.com/search?site=i...=isch&imgdii=_

http://goo.gl/t3eXyu

On Tue, 22 Apr 2014 16:02:04 -0400, Frank Krygowski
wrote:

On 4/22/2014 10:47 AM, Clive George wrote:
On 21/04/2014 16:24, Frank Krygowski wrote:
Let's temporarily ignore those factors and consider only climate. Much
of the U.S. has just come through a winter so brutal that even the most
dedicated utility cyclists had their bikes parked for weeks or months.
They used cars to get around. And that happens for at least a week or
two almost every winter.

So what should a typical cyclist in (say) Buffalo NY do in winter? He
can't take public transportation while there's a foot of snow on the
ground, because the public transportation barely exists; it can require
over an hour to get across town. So what a cyclist does is drive his
car. That means he has to own a car at _least_ for winter use.

What you're describing is a ****ty scenario, and that exists because
people will take the car option first. You need to work on improving
other means of transport.

1) Get public transport in place.
2) Prepare the bike paths and have a winter bike

It's not easy, and will take long term effort, but it's something you
should be aiming towards rather than simply saying "No, it's
impossible". In this case what you see as Dan's deluded optimism is
actually what is needed, rather than what I see as you pretty much
giving up on improving things for anything but cars. (you oppose most
infrastructure, but the car infrastructure will carry on growing)

You're not in Copenhagen, but that doesn't mean you shouldn't try.

I can accept that really good public transportation is a prerequisite to
(eventually) getting a high bicycle modal share. That is, it's
necessary, although it's far from sufficient.

However, I'll point out that - in America, at least - nobody else seems
to be saying that. Those pushing for segregated bike infrastructure are
claiming or implying that the infra is all that's necessary. "Build it
and they will come" is sometimes used as a sort of motivational cheer
among that crowd, but it's only about building things like bike lanes or
bike paths or cycletracks.

Personally, I'd be greatly in favor of excellent public transport.
There are three or four places I must regularly go that are each an hour
away by car. I'd love to hop on a train to get there, taking my bike
along. But even getting decent bus service is difficult in most of the
U.S. I think the fundamental problem is that so much of the population
lives in low-density suburbs, which were designed assuming access to
cars. It's hard to economically serve them with public transit.

Still, if people choose to promote public transit as their mission in
life (and I know one guy who does), I say more power to them. Some day,
decades from now, they may make a real difference.

I'm concentrating on shorter term goals. I believe that by some
education and some publicity, it's possible to make things better almost
immediately for those who do choose to cycle in the present environment.
Which is why, as soon as I type this, I'm off to a local print shop to
run off some simple educational material our bike club is going to
distribute via local bike shops.

The problem is people. They tend to multiply :-)

Years ago Bangkok built an elevated railway system, an elevated
highway system and then a subway system and the surface transport
became more difficult. Now they have embarked on parking buildings on
the outskirts of the city, at the "beginnings" of the public
transportation system and little has changed.

But, of course, the registered population of the Greater Bangkok Area
in 1970 was 3,110,000 while today is approaching 10 million.

--
Cheers,

John B.

On Tue, 22 Apr 2014 16:08:28 -0400, "(PeteCresswell)"
wrote:

Per Frank Krygowski:
Personally, I'd be greatly in favor of excellent public transport.
There are three or four places I must regularly go that are each an hour
away by car. I'd love to hop on a train to get there, taking my bike
along.

Is there any place in the world where a significant percent of the
population carries a bike on public transit?

We have bike racks on the local buses (Philadelphia PA, USA) and I
cannot recall the last time I saw a bike in one of those racks.

When I have an appointment downtown, I'll take the train - which allows
bikes during off-hours - but I don't think I have ever been in a car
with more than one other bike rider, and usually I am alone.

Bangkok has a rather well publicized "rent a bike" system and I've
seen the rent-a-bike stations with the green bicycles securely locked
ion place. But I've never seen one of the "green bikes" in use.
Folding bicycles are becoming more popular and most bike shops have at
least one or two for sale, and while I do see some in use on lanes and
around public markets, I've seen only one or two on public
transportation systems. I did once, about two years ago, see a group
of four or five "fixi" riders in the Sky-train station with their
bikes and they were waiting to board the train so it is apparently
possible to take a bike on the train, at least during low load
periods.

On the other hand, the weather is hot enough this month that sitting
on a chair, with a fan in the room, reading a book, you perspire. I
can't imagine going to a business meeting on a bicycle.
--
Cheers,

John B.

John B. wrote:
On Tue, 22 Apr 2014 16:08:28 -0400, "(PeteCresswell)"
wrote:

Per Frank Krygowski:
Personally, I'd be greatly in favor of excellent public transport.
There are three or four places I must regularly go that are each an hour
away by car. I'd love to hop on a train to get there, taking my bike
along.

Is there any place in the world where a significant percent of the
population carries a bike on public transit?

We have bike racks on the local buses (Philadelphia PA, USA) and I
cannot recall the last time I saw a bike in one of those racks.

When I have an appointment downtown, I'll take the train - which allows
bikes during off-hours - but I don't think I have ever been in a car
with more than one other bike rider, and usually I am alone.

Bangkok has a rather well publicized "rent a bike" system and I've
seen the rent-a-bike stations with the green bicycles securely locked
ion place. But I've never seen one of the "green bikes" in use.
Folding bicycles are becoming more popular and most bike shops have at
least one or two for sale, and while I do see some in use on lanes and
around public markets, I've seen only one or two on public
transportation systems. I did once, about two years ago, see a group
of four or five "fixi" riders in the Sky-train station with their
bikes and they were waiting to board the train so it is apparently
possible to take a bike on the train, at least during low load
periods.

On the other hand, the weather is hot enough this month that sitting
on a chair, with a fan in the room, reading a book, you perspire. I
can't imagine going to a business meeting on a bicycle.

Aside from the well publicized mismanagement Montreal's Bixi program is
doing pretty well. They have stations at nearly every metro and they get a
lot of use. You can take public transit into town then use the Bixi to get
around.

While I've taken my bike on buses, trains and metro I don't see a lot of
this yet. Even for me I prefer just to ride into the city if I'm bringing
my bike.
--
duane