dome nuts and more

On Fri, 03 Jun 2016 16:36:18 +0100, Phil W Lee
wrote:

David Scheidt considered Fri, 3 Jun 2016 12:57:50
+0000 (UTC) the perfect time to write:

Phil W Lee wrote:
:AMuzi considered Thu, 02 Jun 2016 10:25:51 -0500
:the perfect time to write:

:On 6/2/2016 10:02 AM, Emanuel Berg wrote:
: The other day I visited the Biltema store
: (= "car theme"). Some people people ridicule
: such stores and call them daycare for adults,
: some of which indeed visit it every day to buy
: stuff. Personally, I absolutely do not enjoy
: visiting such stores, but I do it once a month
: because I do see the benefit of having some of
: the equipment they market...
:
: This month saw two minor setbacks. I asked for
: a truing stand - and they didn't have one!
: Even I do. But it is old, and I think there are
: better ones today. I asked in yet another store
: - Sportson - which specializes in bikes, and
: this time, the bloke said "we don't sell them
: and if we did they would be several thousands"
: (i.e., 3000 SEK which is ~($361, £249, or
: €323)) - anyway I told this story to a friend
: and he said he'd get one from the UK,
: Park Tool, for ~1000 SEK shipping included -
: that would be ~($120, £83, or €108) - I suppose
: it is even less, in the US! I always thought
: Sweden to be ahead of the UK in terms of bikes,
: but being the home of the industrial
: revolution, I suppose getting gear from them
: isn't an unbearable loss of prestige...
:
: Here is a photo that includes my truing stand -
: to the left of the Cuban cigars [1]
:
: Anyway the second issue was I thought I'd buy
: several boxes of every conceivable screw, nut,
: and washer so I'd never have to look for one
: again but to have it all Prussian and available
: in zero time. This worked well until I got to
: the dome nuts. There was a box of those.
: The smaller ones will work well on hand brakes,
: and sometimes to hold the fender bars on
: certain bikes (e.g., DBSs) - personally tho,
: I prefer non-protruding hex screws on the
: outside and then ordinary hex bolts and split
: washers on the inside... But when I got to the
: most important part, namely the wheel axes, the
: nuts didn't fit! Are those "imperial" or yet of
: some other pitch and/or thread angle?
: Externally, the nuts are 14 mm or most often
: 15 mm, at least that's what I always used
:
: The best thing I got was an adapter from the
: 1/4" ratchet one (the square one with a loose
: ball) to the bit socket (also 1/4"?) - so now,
: I can use the ratchet with the bits!
: Most often, an Allen key to do the kick stand
: when it gets loose.
:
: [1] http://user.it.uu.se/~embe8573/bike/3.jpg
:
:
:Nice looking wheel truing stand. It's a cast VAR model
:right? What would or could improve on that?
:
:Axles for derailleur system hubs are mostly m10x1 (yes,
:there are exceptions to everything but few modern variants).
:A hardware or auto shop will probably have 10mm nuts with a
:coarser thread, m10x1.5 or m10x1.25. You need to specify
:thread advancement besides the diameter.

:To make matters more interesting, M10x1.0 does not correspond to any
:ISO standard - Metric coarse standard for 10mm diameter is M10x1.5mm
:and metric fine ISO standard is M10x1.25mm.
:So M10x1.0 seems to be pretty much bicycle specific, unless anyone
:knows of any other common application.

Small engine spark plugs.

Well, I imagine that dome nuts for spark plugs would be somewhat
unusual, not to say pointless, which may explain the difficulty in
obtaining them!

Probably so, but they used to make nuts for spark plugs with a knurled
surface so that they could be connected or disconnected with the
fingers :-)
--
cheers,

John B.

On Fri, 3 Jun 2016 09:24:12 -0700 (PDT), wrote:

On Thursday, June 2, 2016 at 1:02:06 PM UTC-7, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 6/2/2016 11:02 AM, Emanuel Berg wrote:

This month saw two minor setbacks. I asked for
a truing stand - and they didn't have one!
Even I do. But it is old, and I think there are
better ones today. I asked in yet another store
- Sportson - which specializes in bikes, and
this time, the bloke said "we don't sell them
and if we did they would be several thousands"
(i.e., 3000 SEK which is ~($361, £249, or
€323)) - anyway I told this story to a friend
and he said he'd get one from the UK,
Park Tool, for ~1000 SEK shipping included -
that would be ~($120, £83, or €108)

FWIW: When Bike Nashbar was brand new (then called Bike Warehouse) it
was a fairly small operation. Arni Nashbar, a member of our bike club,
sometimes hired club members to do sort of cottage industry work.

One of the most brilliant engineers I know enjoyed wheel building, so he
agreed to build wheels for Nashbar. Rather than buy a truing stand, he
built his own out of wood, and used it for years with complete satisfaction.

And BTW it wasn't because he had no metal skills. The guy also built
custom frames, still owns several machine tools, and had high enough
rank at work to probably have the company shop build what he would have
drawn up.

I also built my first truing stand. It was much less elaborate, but it
did the job until someone gave me a better one. They're pretty simple
devices, and I don't build enough wheels to require a top of the line
truing stand.


--
- Frank Krygowski

Though I have a double car garage I have so much junk that I can barely get my single car inside. Plus I have my carpenter tools, my car tools, my sailboat tools, my motorcycle tools, my telephone installation tools and my bicycle tools. So Manny's workbench looks large and heavenly.

But, of course. One parks one's car in the yard (or on the lawn) and
keeps "stuff" in the garage :-)


But a professional grade truing stand is one of the things that I absolutely demand. I know that the lower grade models work fine for truing but I can build wheels in minutes rather than hours using a stand that doesn't flex. Not that there's any demand for that anymore. And then I do need to get the camping gear out of the way. Or the power carpet steam cleaner.....
--
cheers,

John B.

John B. writes:

I suspect that few shops want to stock a truing
stand as they would sell very few.

But if they have a store that is the size of my
first school (which is big), all devoted to
bikes, it is still bad they don't have it!

And the bloke was wrong - the one I have on its
way, God willing, costs only 1 000 SEK which is
~($123, £85, or €108) and not "several
thousands" as he claimed.

No excuses!

You might look at nylok or fiber self
locking nuts.

Are those the same? I have several buckets of
nyloks but I heard they loose their property
with use, and as of now I don't know how to
determine if this has happened or not.

I do have new nyloks as well, but I don't want
to use them on the wheel axes, because isn't
the whole point of dome nuts that they should
protect the threads from dirt and impact? (As
in putting the bike in a stand.)

Besides, the new nyloks I have are most likely
the M6 etc. sizes and not the pitch/thread
angle/? of the wheel axis... (By the way,
I haven't been able to get any data because the
little sawblade thingy I have is inches!
Externally tho, the dome nuts are 14 mm, most
often 15 mm, and rarely 13 mm - I verified this
with a micrometer - phew! So I suppose they
are metric inside as well?)

Or do you mean the combination of nylon and
dome? Cool, only I don't have many of those...

--
underground experts united .... http://user.it.uu.se/~embe8573
Emacs Gnus Blogomatic ......... http://user.it.uu.se/~embe8573/blogomatic
- so far: 46 Blogomatic articles -

On Sat, 04 Jun 2016 04:09:15 +0200, Emanuel Berg
wrote:

John B. writes:

I suspect that few shops want to stock a truing
stand as they would sell very few.

But if they have a store that is the size of my
first school (which is big), all devoted to
bikes, it is still bad they don't have it!

And the bloke was wrong - the one I have on its
way, God willing, costs only 1 000 SEK which is
~($123, £85, or €108) and not "several
thousands" as he claimed.

No excuses!

You might look at nylok or fiber self
locking nuts.

Are those the same? I have several buckets of
nyloks but I heard they loose their property
with use, and as of now I don't know how to
determine if this has happened or not.

I do have new nyloks as well, but I don't want
to use them on the wheel axes, because isn't
the whole point of dome nuts that they should
protect the threads from dirt and impact? (As
in putting the bike in a stand.)

Most, if not all, lock nuts will eventually loose their self locking
capability. The rule of thumb is usually, "if you can screw them all
the way on with your fingers they aren't self locking any more"

Besides, the new nyloks I have are most likely
the M6 etc. sizes and not the pitch/thread
angle/? of the wheel axis... (By the way,
I haven't been able to get any data because the
little sawblade thingy I have is inches!
Externally tho, the dome nuts are 14 mm, most
often 15 mm, and rarely 13 mm - I verified this
with a micrometer - phew! So I suppose they
are metric inside as well?)

Usually when one says something like "5mm nut" it refers to the
diameter of the bolt it is used on :-)

They certainly make 5mm, fiber, or nylon, self locking nuts as I buy
them frequently. Although to be honest I seldom use self locking nuts
on a bicycle.

Or do you mean the combination of nylon and
dome? Cool, only I don't have many of those...
See:
http://www.lowes.com/Nuts/Lock-Nuts/.../N-1z0v0zz/pl#!

--
cheers,

John B.

John B. writes:

Most, if not all, lock nuts will eventually
loose their self locking capability. The rule
of thumb is usually, "if you can screw them
all the way on with your fingers they aren't
self locking any more"

Excellent, thank you!

Externally tho, the dome nuts are 14 mm,
most often 15 mm, and rarely 13 mm -
I verified this with a micrometer - phew!
So I suppose they are metric inside
as well?)

Usually when one says something like "5mm nut"
it refers to the diameter of the bolt it is
used on :-)

Yes, that is why I said "externally". Is there
a better way of saying it?

As for the axes they come is somewhat different
size. As of now, I can only give you the
diameter (today I had one 7 mm). I have
a whitworth pitch/thread gauge but only for
inches, not the metric stuff.

PS. In the other post: *wingnut*, not
spring nut.

--
underground experts united .... http://user.it.uu.se/~embe8573
Emacs Gnus Blogomatic ......... http://user.it.uu.se/~embe8573/blogomatic
- so far: 47 Blogomatic articles -

On Friday, June 3, 2016 at 10:09:18 PM UTC-4, Emanuel Berg wrote:
John B. writes:

I suspect that few shops want to stock a truing
stand as they would sell very few.

But if they have a store that is the size of my
first school (which is big), all devoted to
bikes, it is still bad they don't have it!

And the bloke was wrong - the one I have on its
way, God willing, costs only 1 000 SEK which is
~($123, £85, or €108) and not "several
thousands" as he claimed.

No excuses!

You might look at nylok or fiber self
locking nuts.

Are those the same? I have several buckets of
nyloks but I heard they loose their property
with use, and as of now I don't know how to
determine if this has happened or not.

I do have new nyloks as well, but I don't want
to use them on the wheel axes, because isn't
the whole point of dome nuts that they should
protect the threads from dirt and impact? (As
in putting the bike in a stand.)

Besides, the new nyloks I have are most likely
the M6 etc. sizes and not the pitch/thread
angle/? of the wheel axis... (By the way,
I haven't been able to get any data because the
little sawblade thingy I have is inches!
Externally tho, the dome nuts are 14 mm, most
often 15 mm, and rarely 13 mm - I verified this
with a micrometer - phew! So I suppose they
are metric inside as well?)

Or do you mean the combination of nylon and
dome? Cool, only I don't have many of those...

--
underground experts united .... http://user.it.uu.se/~embe8573
Emacs Gnus Blogomatic ......... http://user.it.uu.se/~embe8573/blogomatic
- so far: 46 Blogomatic articles -

https://www.google.com/#q=explain+nut+and+screw+sizes

only in extreme use eg the front end of your Indy Car is worry abt nylock lock loss thru use relevant

IF the nuts are repeatedly taken off and on the a nylock is not advised but Loctite fluid.

random thoughts abt garage space are usually resolved with a new and effective storage system.

On Sat, 04 Jun 2016 13:15:54 +0200, Emanuel Berg
wrote:

John B. writes:

Most, if not all, lock nuts will eventually
loose their self locking capability. The rule
of thumb is usually, "if you can screw them
all the way on with your fingers they aren't
self locking any more"

Excellent, thank you!

Externally tho, the dome nuts are 14 mm,
most often 15 mm, and rarely 13 mm -
I verified this with a micrometer - phew!
So I suppose they are metric inside
as well?)

Usually when one says something like "5mm nut"
it refers to the diameter of the bolt it is
used on :-)

Yes, that is why I said "externally". Is there
a better way of saying it?

I don't know, I don't think I ever gave it much thought. But the
outside dimension of a nut is usually not of much interest. Unless, of
course, you don't have the correct size wrench :-)

As for the axes they come is somewhat different
size. As of now, I can only give you the
diameter (today I had one 7 mm). I have
a whitworth pitch/thread gauge but only for
inches, not the metric stuff.

PS. In the other post: *wingnut*, not
spring nut.
--
cheers,

John B.

John B. writes:

I don't know, I don't think I ever gave it
much thought. But the outside dimension of
a nut is usually not of much interest.
Unless, of course, you don't have the correct
size wrench :-)

Here I mentioned it because if it is 13, 14 or
15 *mm* on the outside, I take it the inside is
metric as well (and not imperial).

If anyone cares to keep track of all the tools
I seek but cannot get, put a metric thread
gauge on that list. Ridiculous - I always
suspected these shops weren't "professional" as
they claim and as people, who aren't
professionals, say. And now I have the evidence
because basic tools and stands they don't have!

But it is all good - I'll be even more happy
when I finally get it

--
underground experts united .... http://user.it.uu.se/~embe8573
Emacs Gnus Blogomatic ......... http://user.it.uu.se/~embe8573/blogomatic
- so far: 48 Blogomatic articles -

On Sun, 05 Jun 2016 05:31:17 +0200, Emanuel Berg
wrote:

John B. writes:

I don't know, I don't think I ever gave it
much thought. But the outside dimension of
a nut is usually not of much interest.
Unless, of course, you don't have the correct
size wrench :-)

Here I mentioned it because if it is 13, 14 or
15 *mm* on the outside, I take it the inside is
metric as well (and not imperial).

If anyone cares to keep track of all the tools
I seek but cannot get, put a metric thread
gauge on that list. Ridiculous - I always
suspected these shops weren't "professional" as
they claim and as people, who aren't
professionals, say. And now I have the evidence
because basic tools and stands they don't have!

Just because someone doesn't have something it doesn't mean it is not
professional. It more likely indicates that the shop has no demand for
something.

I can't remember ever seeing a bike shop that stocked that old
Campagnolo Tool Set although I've seen them proudly displayed up on
the wall in a glass fronted case.



But it is all good - I'll be even more happy
when I finally get it

You quote prices in Swedish? money. I would assume that you could go
to any tool store and buy a "thread gauge" and it would be metric.
--
cheers,

John B.

On 6/2/2016 8:02 AM, Emanuel Berg wrote:

Anyway the second issue was I thought I'd buy
several boxes of every conceivable screw, nut,
and washer so I'd never have to look for one
again but to have it all Prussian and available
in zero time. This worked well until I got to
the dome nuts. There was a box of those.

snip

The last odd nut I needed was the axle nut for an SRAM DualDrive hub,
which is 10.5mm x 26TPI. One side is a dome nut, one side is a regular nut.

No bicycle shop in my area had any. The Trek tied shop, which is usually
good, had no idea what an SRAM Dual Drive was. Aaron's Bicycle Repair,
Inc., in Seattle, was selling a pair of them for $30 + $4 shipping. A
Muzi shipped me some for $4.95 each plus $8 shipping.

On Sheldon's site he said that 13/32 (10.32mm) x 26 TPI Sturmey-Archer
nut could be used in a pinch (I tried one and it does work, it’s just a
little tighter when you hand tighten it), and one shop in my area did
have some of those for $2 each.

The axles with the hole for the shifting mechanism needed to be a tad
greater diameter than 10mm. I guess they did not want to go to 12mm, the
next up in common sizes, so they did a custom size.