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  #51  
Old May 16th 15, 05:08 AM posted to aus.legal,aus.bicycle
Zebee Johnstone
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Posts: 1,960
Default Talkback one eyed lunatics.

In aus.bicycle on Sat, 16 May 2015 10:30:27 +1000
F Murtz wrote:

To me, the reason for that (and I AM assuming here) is that
motorcycles can keep up with the flow of traffic whereas a bicycle
generally cannot.


I think that that it was not to do with speed but the practicable bit.
Zebee Johnstone touched on it in an earlier post where she said,


"The reason it doesn't apply to motorcyclists is due to some court
cases about safety and the meaning of the word practicable. (I was
involved in motorcycle lobbying in SA at the time the SA law was
changed before the national road rules came in and helped with the
defence of one of the riders.)

I expect that should a cyclist be prosecuted for it they'll be playng
the practical card.

I certainly take the lane when it is not safe to stay left such as in
a lane too narrow for safe passing and with no escape route for me if
a car does crowd me."



To add to that, see the British govt advice to cyclists at
http://think.direct.gov.uk/cycling.html which includes riding in the
centre of narrow lanes.

The poms have Bikeability which is a teaching setup for bicycle safety
at schools and elsewhere. (all Oz states should import it forthwith
and provide it in schools and regular classes for adults. Should be a
requirement for a driver's licence in my opinion. )

http://bikeability.org.uk/wp-content...very_Guide.pdf

The instruction for on road includes
"Where the road is narrow and two-way
traffic would make it hazardous for the
trainee to be overtaken by a following
vehicle they must be observed
to ride in the primary position"

where the primary position is in the middle of the lane.

They also note that riders should not ride in the gutter, that the
normal riding position is "secondary position" which is about 1m from
the curb. That's far enough left that a car can perform a proper
passing manouvere on a normal road if nothing is coming the other way,
and far enough right for the cyclist to have good vision, to be easy
to see, and for cars to be encouraged to wait until it is safe to pass
instead of thinking "I can squeeze past" and endangering the cyclist.

There's more on that in
https://www.britishcycling.org.uk/in...iding-part-1-0

Basically the Brits have done more thinking on this than the Oz mob
have. Eventually the rules will catch up with proper road safety
although given the mess the pollies (and the money grabbers at certain
privately owned standards organisations) have made of motorcycle
helmets, I wouldn't bet on it till the courts make them.

So should a zealous policeperson nab a cyclist for not riding in the
gutter and the cyclist fights the ticket the courts will get to decide
on the word "practicable" and as there is scads and scads of
information about safe cycling from all over the world I have no doubt
what the result of that case would be.

Zebee

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  #52  
Old May 16th 15, 12:21 PM posted to aus.legal,aus.bicycle
Rod Speed
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Posts: 1,488
Default Talkback one eyed lunatics.

Stuart Longland wrote
Rod Speed wrote


Mate, there's no freaking 'bicycle lanes' in the country/bush.


Wrong, we have a few.


Not many though.


Irrelevant to his absolute claim.

I've been investigating routes that would take me
out of Brisbane and into NSW. So far it's a 50-50
toss between Spring Creek Road or The Lions Road.


There's no inland cycle path that I know of, otherwise I'd gladly use it.


I didn’t say anything about cycle paths on that sort of route.

  #53  
Old May 16th 15, 04:33 PM posted to aus.legal,aus.bicycle
news13
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Posts: 28
Default Talkback one eyed lunatics.

On Sat, 16 May 2015 05:39:47 +1000, Stuart Longland wrote:

On 15/05/15 21:30, Rod Speed wrote:
Mate, there's no freaking 'bicycle lanes' in the country/bush.


Wrong, we have a few.


Not many though. I've been investigating routes that would take me out
of Brisbane and into NSW. So far it's a 50-50 toss between Spring Creek
Road or The Lions Road.


Where isx Spring Creek Road?

There's no inland cycle path that I know of, otherwise I'd gladly use
it.


There is/was a documented guide Ipswich(Brisbane) to Windsor(Sydney) via
Lions Road.
The rest of the alternatives were never described in print that I know of.

  #54  
Old May 16th 15, 04:34 PM posted to aus.legal,aus.bicycle
news13
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Posts: 28
Default Talkback one eyed lunatics.

On Fri, 15 May 2015 21:30:44 +1000, Rod Speed wrote:



Mate, there's no freaking 'bicycle lanes' in the country/bush.


Wrong, we have a few.


Where are they?

  #55  
Old May 16th 15, 08:57 PM posted to aus.legal,aus.bicycle
Rod Speed
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Posts: 1,488
Default Talkback one eyed lunatics.



"news13" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 15 May 2015 21:30:44 +1000, Rod Speed wrote:



Mate, there's no freaking 'bicycle lanes' in the country/bush.


Wrong, we have a few.


Where are they?


Marked on the sides of some of the major roads
in town and we have a couple of dedicated cycle
paths too, concrete.

  #57  
Old May 17th 15, 03:36 AM posted to aus.legal,aus.bicycle
Jeßus[_3_]
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Posts: 12
Default Talkback one eyed lunatics.

On Sat, 16 May 2015 10:30:27 +1000, F Murtz
wrote:

Jeßus wrote:
On Fri, 15 May 2015 20:44:25 +1000, F Murtz
wrote:

Jeßus wrote:
On Fri, 15 May 2015 11:01:45 +1000, F Murtz
wrote:

F Murtz wrote:
Jeßus wrote:
On Thu, 14 May 2015 18:33:45 +1000, F Murtz
wrote:

Jeßus wrote:
On Thu, 14 May 2015 17:17:33 +1000, "Pelican"
wrote:



"Jeßus" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 14 May 2015 15:28:49 +1000, F Murtz
wrote:

I do not know If any one has heard 2UE afternoon talkback, think his
name is Justin smith,on the subject of bicycle rider
registration, he
seems manic on the subject and howls down anyone who has an opposite
view to his, he seems to have the opinion that it is a foregone
conclusion that we will have rider registration by the end of the
year.
He seems to have Duncan Gay (roads minister)on his side.
He also has the opinion that bicycle ordinations should not be
allowed
representation at the soon to be,round table group on the subject
with
Duncan Gay because "they are going to say no to everything".
His idea is registration of rider not bicycle with mandated fluoro
jackets with number on the back.

We would then be the only place in the world with it.
It would almost mean the death knell for cycle riding.

You might find a lot of people celebrating if that comes to pass.
I know I certainly would be. I recently fitted cameras to all my
vehicles, specifically because of lycra wearig cyclists who think
theyre entitled to do whatever they please on country roads.

The next rider who makes me choose between hitting him/her, or
another
innocent vehicle, or the roadside verge, is going to have a very bad
day.

Even if every rider was a suicidal ****wit, you should not be in a
situation
of making such a choice.

I shouldn't be, as you say. The last incident that compelled me to
install cameras was extremely dangerous and almost caused a head on
collision with an oncoming car. Not only was the rider unapologetic,
he fully denied being dead centre of my lane (even though he was,
hence the cameras now)... this was on a tight bend, on a country road
with barriers/rails on the LHS and a cutting to the right (oncoming
car anyway so that wasn't an option either). That rider is very lucky
to still be here.

After 10 years living in the Sunshine Coast hinterland and now N.E Tas
- both places very popular with riders - I've lost pretty much all
tolerance for them. Too many incidents and far too consistently for my
liking.


You have me puzzled, why would a rider being dead centre of a lane cause
a problem? was he coming toward you on the wrong side of the road?

He was in my lane, going in my direction. The problem was he was in
the middle of my lane and I couldn't veer into the oncoming lane
because of an oncoming vehicle. I was *going* to veer into the other
lane but thankfully I didn't (blind corner).
I dunno, you've lost me a bit here if you can't see the problem?


The problem is, regardless of the inconvenience of it a cyclist has
every right to cycle in the middle of the lane and unless the law is
changed it is one of the things up with which we must put, like wombats,
tractors,and any other slow moving things,that is why emphasis is put on
the dangers of blind curves.


OOPS,Apparently some jurisdictions state that you must keep to the left
when practicable on a bicycle.

Naturally. Why in the blue **** would some juridictions allow cyclists
to sit in the middle of the lane?


Most jurisdictions have a rider, "if practicable"which would cover many
things.
They are allowed if they have a reason.which may be a number of things
including bad surface at the edge etc,If there are two bicycles side by
side at least one would be at the centre.


Side by side?


I think you will find that the law allows that.


I saw that a lot in QLD but not Tasmania, thankfully. I guess cyclists
here aren't *that* suicidal, most of our roads are clearly unsuited to
riding two abreast. I know of a couple of freeways here (near
Launceston) where cyclists do, and it is safe to do so on those roads
IMO. but most roads here - no way.


It would also seem strange that it seem that motor cycles do not have to
keep to the left when cars and bicycles are supposed to.


To me, the reason for that (and I AM assuming here) is that
motorcycles can keep up with the flow of traffic whereas a bicycle
generally cannot.


I think that that it was not to do with speed but the practicable bit.
Zebee Johnstone touched on it in an earlier post where she said,


"The reason it doesn't apply to motorcyclists is due to some court
cases about safety and the meaning of the word practicable. (I was
involved in motorcycle lobbying in SA at the time the SA law was
changed before the national road rules came in and helped with the
defence of one of the riders.)

I expect that should a cyclist be prosecuted for it they'll be playng
the practical card.

I certainly take the lane when it is not safe to stay left such as in
a lane too narrow for safe passing and with no escape route for me if
a car does crowd me."


To be honest, I'll stick with my original comment on this one.
  #58  
Old May 17th 15, 03:37 AM posted to aus.legal,aus.bicycle
Jeßus[_3_]
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Posts: 12
Default Talkback one eyed lunatics.

On Sat, 16 May 2015 15:34:11 +0000 (UTC), news13
wrote:

On Fri, 15 May 2015 21:30:44 +1000, Rod Speed wrote:

Mate, there's no freaking 'bicycle lanes' in the country/bush.


Wrong, we have a few.


Where are they?


I suspect his definition of 'country' is significantly different to
mine.
  #59  
Old May 17th 15, 05:25 AM posted to aus.legal,aus.bicycle
Rod Speed
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,488
Default Talkback one eyed lunatics.

Jeßus wrote
news13 wrote
Rod Speed wrote


Mate, there's no freaking 'bicycle lanes' in the country/bush.


Wrong, we have a few.


Where are they?


I suspect his definition of 'country' is significantly different to mine.


You're wrong, as always.

  #60  
Old May 21st 15, 04:10 PM posted to aus.legal,aus.bicycle
news13
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 28
Default Talkback one eyed lunatics.

On Sun, 17 May 2015 05:57:22 +1000, Rod Speed wrote:

"news13" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 15 May 2015 21:30:44 +1000, Rod Speed wrote:



Mate, there's no freaking 'bicycle lanes' in the country/bush.

Wrong, we have a few.


Where are they?


Marked on the sides of some of the major roads in town and we have a
couple of dedicated cycle paths too, concrete.


Urban bike paths, whooppeee do!!!!!
Woops, urban terrorist paths shared by the walking dead.


 




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