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Paris bike shops
Well, I wanted to share with everyone the joy of being a cyclist in
Paris, and one of the highlights are the absolutely awful bike shops. I had previously thought the worst of the lot was Cycle Laurent. The last time I went there in September, they told me that there was no point repainting a steel frame, because it cost around 600 Euros (I later called up a local frame builder, Levacon, who said he could do it for 200 including disassembly and assembly), and the time before that, they couldn't replace a broken spoke, at least, not with what I had because "they" didn't make double butted spokes anymore. However, I found a new candidate for the absolutely worst bike shop in Paris, which is the Bouticycle St. Honore, which is just across from the Louvre. This shop is new, as the owner replaced his former auto parts store with a bike shop two years ago, so it combines Parisian arrogance with newbie ignorance. The first time I went there, I was looking for a 17 degree stem, and the owner assured me that he didn't know of any such thing, and that if I needed one for a new bicycle, then I would surely have to get a custom frame. Interestingly, he is a Look retailer, and yet he was unaware of the adjustable Look ergostem. Which leads me to my visit there today, as I was interested in checking out details of the new Look KG595 frame, as I was unable to figure out everything from the Look website. In particular, I wanted to know how their new seatpost works, that is, how it is adjusted. The owner explained that you did not adjust the post by moving it on a seat collar, but that the integrated seatpost was cut to your approximate size, and then elastometers were used to obtain the desired height. When I questioned him on the size of the elastometers, he said that the smallest size was 5mm. I was quite surprised at this because it seems to me that it is well known that saddle height is rarely adjusted by more than 2mm increments. He explained that to buy this frame, one needed an in depth postural study, and after this was accomplished, the saddle height would never be changed. I was equally shocked at this, because it seemed obvious to me that you might want to vary your saddle height (especially after I had seen the seemingly unadjustable Project 96 track bikes). No, he and his assistant assured me, once you reach your adult size, you never change saddle height ever. I brought up different saddle heights for climbing versus cobbles, and also change of pedals, and he told me that since this was such a concern to me, it wasn't the bike for me. I was quite puzzled by this, and after I left the store, I realised that it was very common to change saddle height because of the different types of saddles on the market which have different thicknesses, so what he said couldn't be true, you don't invent a new technology which is worse than the old one (the new integrated saddle has many advantages, for example, the seatpost cannot slip down into the frame). So I called up the Look company directly and talked to one of their representatives. He was quite shocked at what I told him, in particular, he explained that the adjustement was made with carbon fiber spacers, not elastometers, and that the smallest spacer was 1.25mm (I found this information later on their website). He then asked me to name the bike shop, and wasn't surprised that it was in Paris. In fact, he said that they had a lot of trouble finding dealers inside big cities, they had none in Milan or Berlin, and that the Paris shops were indeed quite bad, especially compared to the ones in the near suburbs. It was funny, because he immediately gave the example of changing saddle height due to changing from an Arione saddle to an SLR saddle which was thinner, so he confirmed everything I suspected in even more detail. I think it upset him that the company went to so much trouble to have a new seatpost system that worked well, and that his dealers gave the exact opposite impression of the technology. Apart from that, he was the most knowledgeable and helpful company rep I've ever spoken to in France. As he said, it is also true that bike shops improve as soon as you get out of the city of Paris. If and when I get this frame, I will go to one of the excellent bike shops in the Vallee de Chevreuse. -ilan |
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#2
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Paris bike shops
ilan wrote: Well, I wanted to share with everyone the joy of being a cyclist in Paris, and one of the highlights are the absolutely awful bike shops. I had previously thought the worst of the lot was Cycle Laurent. The last time I went there in September, they told me that there was no point repainting a steel frame, because it cost around 600 Euros (I later called up a local frame builder, Levacon, who said he could do it for 200 including disassembly and assembly), and the time before that, they couldn't replace a broken spoke, at least, not with what I had because "they" didn't make double butted spokes anymore. However, I found a new candidate for the absolutely worst bike shop in Paris, which is the Bouticycle St. Honore, which is just across from the Louvre. This shop is new, as the owner replaced his former auto parts store with a bike shop two years ago, so it combines Parisian arrogance with newbie ignorance. The first time I went there, I was looking for a 17 degree stem, and the owner assured me that he didn't know of any such thing, and that if I needed one for a new bicycle, then I would surely have to get a custom frame. Interestingly, he is a Look retailer, and yet he was unaware of the adjustable Look ergostem. Which leads me to my visit there today, as I was interested in checking out details of the new Look KG595 frame, as I was unable to figure out everything from the Look website. In particular, I wanted to know how their new seatpost works, that is, how it is adjusted. The owner explained that you did not adjust the post by moving it on a seat collar, but that the integrated seatpost was cut to your approximate size, and then elastometers were used to obtain the desired height. When I questioned him on the size of the elastometers, he said that the smallest size was 5mm. I was quite surprised at this because it seems to me that it is well known that saddle height is rarely adjusted by more than 2mm increments. He explained that to buy this frame, one needed an in depth postural study, and after this was accomplished, the saddle height would never be changed. I was equally shocked at this, because it seemed obvious to me that you might want to vary your saddle height (especially after I had seen the seemingly unadjustable Project 96 track bikes). No, he and his assistant assured me, once you reach your adult size, you never change saddle height ever. I brought up different saddle heights for climbing versus cobbles, and also change of pedals, and he told me that since this was such a concern to me, it wasn't the bike for me. I was quite puzzled by this, and after I left the store, I realised that it was very common to change saddle height because of the different types of saddles on the market which have different thicknesses, so what he said couldn't be true, you don't invent a new technology which is worse than the old one (the new integrated saddle has many advantages, for example, the seatpost cannot slip down into the frame). So I called up the Look company directly and talked to one of their representatives. He was quite shocked at what I told him, in particular, he explained that the adjustement was made with carbon fiber spacers, not elastometers, and that the smallest spacer was 1.25mm (I found this information later on their website). He then asked me to name the bike shop, and wasn't surprised that it was in Paris. In fact, he said that they had a lot of trouble finding dealers inside big cities, they had none in Milan or Berlin, and that the Paris shops were indeed quite bad, especially compared to the ones in the near suburbs. It was funny, because he immediately gave the example of changing saddle height due to changing from an Arione saddle to an SLR saddle which was thinner, so he confirmed everything I suspected in even more detail. I think it upset him that the company went to so much trouble to have a new seatpost system that worked well, and that his dealers gave the exact opposite impression of the technology. Apart from that, he was the most knowledgeable and helpful company rep I've ever spoken to in France. As he said, it is also true that bike shops improve as soon as you get out of the city of Paris. If and when I get this frame, I will go to one of the excellent bike shops in the Vallee de Chevreuse. That type of experience has to occupy one of the levels of Hell all by itself. Having a know-it-all clerk tell you that what you're looking for doesn't exist (even though you have one at home, need another, and the manufacturer seems to think that they make them), or have the idiot give explicit advice on how to quickly damage the mechanism. There has to be a school for that sort of thing. I'd imagine it was just down the street from The Ministry of Silly Walks. That Paris LBS must have stood for Lazy ******* Sales. You should find and cherish an XLBS (excellent local bike shop). R |
#3
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Paris bike shops
RicodJour wrote: That Paris LBS must have stood for Lazy ******* Sales. You should find and cherish an XLBS (excellent local bike shop). The Bouticycle St. Honore was actually named "Bike shop of the month" in one of the French magazines last month. The owner organises group rides from the shop and in the suburbs on weekends. In fact, a couple of the riders were there when I asked my questions and they all seemed a little annoyed by my intrusion. As soon as I closed the door, I heard mirthful laughter, which was at my expense, no doubt. The only missing element was them asking for my current bike, and me answering Ritchey and then being told that Ritchey only makes components, not bicycles. Speaking of which, yet another typical "big city" interaction last week (the last one of this type occured in New York City). I was out walking when I saw an older (so old) guy on the sidewalk with a pristine all carbon Lapierre. I asked him whether the carbon Elite water bottle cages were any good, and he interrupted me by asking whether I was a bike rider, and then what bike I had. I told him Ritchey and he asked "what's that?" I pointed to his fork, saying, same company as that. "Oh, so you have a nice bike", he told me, somewhat annoyed. I then pointed to his seatpost, of which only about 5cm was exposed, on a 54cm frame, and said, "not really, but at least mine fits me." His angry response was: "This is a custom frame, and I got it from Fignon's mechanic!" OK, so I basically said that I doubted that Lapierre made custom frames, and that Fignon's mechanic gave him a frame which was way too big for him, so he did the only sensible thing and rode away... As for good bike shops in the Paris area, the farther from Paris the better, usually. There is a bike shop not too far from the Eiffel Tower on the rue de Grenelle, (about 1km inside the city limits) and which used to be called Carnac Sport. When I went there in October to try on Carnac shoes, the salesman got very annoyed when I described them as "his shoes" since, according to him, I had failed to read the name on the store window, which made no reference to Carnac. I later did a Yellow Pages search for "Carnac Sport" and that address came up immediately, as in my recollection. However, the salesman never said anything incorrect, and was competent, if unfriendly. A little further out is a bike shop at the Porte Maillot, about 200m inside the city limits. They aren't rude or annoying, they just ignore you, which is just fine if you want to try on shoes, because they leave you alone with their whole inventory. One day, I'm going to go in there and tell them that the first ever Paris-Roubaix started across the street from their store and see what reaction I get. I'll probably need a loud speaker to get any kind of reaction. Once you leave Paris, the congeniality improves makedly. For example, the bike shop La Gazelle in Boulogne, about 1km from the Paris city limits. They were quite nice and let me try on shoes, and even gave me some used pairs to see how they stretched out. However, they told me that Shimano road shoes were incompatible with two hole cleats (e.g., Shimano old style SPD), which I had a hard time believing and I found the adapter plate online after a 1 minute internet search, and they also didn't know that Shimano shoes came in half sizes. However, the two I used to go to in the Vallee de Chevreuse, about 25km from Paris, where I used to live, are very good. The first is Espace Bellouis, in Gif-sur-Yvette, which is at the bottom of the Cote de Gif, which is on the last stage of the Tour about once every two years. The owner was Lanterne Rouge of the 1972 Tour, and he is a very good mechanic. He is a little shy, as opposed to his rather imposing wife, who runs the store. When I mentioned this place to the Look rep, he said: "Oh, Mme. Bellouis..." The other store is Cycle Jacky in Villebon-sur-Yvette http://www.cyclesjacky.fr/ They are much more modern, and seem to be going more towards mountain biking. I went there last Friday when there was a Cannondale event. I met the French Cannondale rep, who was very nice. He talked about his trip to the Cannondale factory, which was evidently on his only trip to North America. He said it was near Altoona, and he had some interesting interactions with the locals, one person asked him if the roads in France were paved, so now at least he knows more about the US than they do about France. Anyway, if you're in the Paris area and need to go to a bike shop, I recommend those places, and they probably speak English at Cycles Jacky, if that is necessary.... Oh, and the riding there is also very good (which makes sense). I should mention that since local bike shops in Paris are overwhelmingly unpleasant, there is an acceptable alternative, the two big sports chains Go Sport and Decathlon. They carry some good equipment, e.g., all the best Michelin tires, and their clothing is very good and very inexpensive. Decathlon has sponsored pro teams, so you can even get discount pro level equipment on occasion. -ilan -ilan |
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Paris bike shops
On 20 Dec 2006 10:37:47 -0800, "ilan" wrote:
Ilan, I miss your cynicism. Come back to the group more often ;-) -- JT **************************** Remove "remove" to reply Visit http://www.jt10000.com **************************** |
#5
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Paris bike shops
Thanks, JT! By the way, do you really live in New York City? Basically,
the only thing that keeps me going here in Paris, is that it's better than NYC, at least for bike riding. -ilan John Forrest Tomlinson wrote: On 20 Dec 2006 10:37:47 -0800, "ilan" wrote: Ilan, I miss your cynicism. Come back to the group more often ;-) -- JT **************************** Remove "remove" to reply Visit http://www.jt10000.com **************************** |
#6
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Paris bike shops
On 20 Dec 2006 15:58:00 -0800, "ilan" wrote:
Thanks, JT! By the way, do you really live in New York City? Basically, the only thing that keeps me going here in Paris, is that it's better than NYC, at least for bike riding. Yeah, I'm in NYC. Here's a recent bike shop discussion on our racing discussion site http://www.nyvelocity.com/content.php?id=1160 -- JT **************************** Remove "remove" to reply Visit http://www.jt10000.com **************************** |
#7
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Paris bike shops
John Forrest Tomlinson wrote: On 20 Dec 2006 15:58:00 -0800, "ilan" wrote: Thanks, JT! By the way, do you really live in New York City? Basically, the only thing that keeps me going here in Paris, is that it's better than NYC, at least for bike riding. Yeah, I'm in NYC. Here's a recent bike shop discussion on our racing discussion site http://www.nyvelocity.com/content.php?id=1160 -- JT **************************** Remove "remove" to reply Visit http://www.jt10000.com **************************** Well, I feel for you, though it seems the intellectual level of NYC riders seems way higher than anything over here. I once went to a NYC bike shop, which was near 14th street. I don't know about the bikes, but that's where I got my first pair of Vans, before I saw Sean Penn wearing them in Fast Times at Ridgemont High, so a looong time ago... Just to give you some more insight into the nature of French bike shops, I had to go to California to replace my broken Zefal HP Frame pump (which is French!!!), since pretty much every bike shop carries it over there. I have never seen it stocked here (though I did see another person riding with one last week), and the stores where I inquired about it all told me that I should really get a mini pump. To seal my popularity with the locals, the French rec.sport.cyclisme guys totally flamed me when I declared that I refuse to lend my frame pump to mini-pump people who flat. Speaking of California, things have gotten so bad, I've even started dreaming of going to Palo Alto BIcycles. In my dream, I go there after being annoyed by Wheelsmith, which is a fairly realistic recreation of times past. -ilan |
#8
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Paris bike shops
In article . com,
"RicodJour" wrote: That type of experience has to occupy one of the levels of Hell all by itself. Having a know-it-all clerk tell you that what you're looking for doesn't exist (even though you have one at home, need another, and the manufacturer seems to think that they make them), My best experience with that was going to a Chevrolet dealer's parts department, asking to order a door latch mechanism for a 1964 Chevelle and being told that "they didn't use those then." Oh, so back in the caveman days of '64, you tied the doors shut with rope (or a belt if you were classy), huh? -- tanx, Howard Never take a tenant with a monkey. remove YOUR SHOES to reply, ok? |
#9
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Paris bike shops
In article . com,
"ilan" wrote: I once went to a NYC bike shop, which was near 14th street. I don't know about the bikes, but that's where I got my first pair of Vans, before I saw Sean Penn wearing them in Fast Times at Ridgemont High, so a looong time ago... Hmm, first set of Vans in '75. Speaking of California, things have gotten so bad, I've even started dreaming of going to Palo Alto BIcycles. In my dream, I go there after being annoyed by Wheelsmith, which is a fairly realistic recreation of times past. Well, Wheelsmith is gone. I never really went to PAB much in the past, so I can't relate to what you're saying. But they're a pretty good shop at the moment. Friendly, knowledgeable people, good mechanics (if you need that) and generally a lot of good product. Ask for Adam or Rudy... -- tanx, Howard Never take a tenant with a monkey. remove YOUR SHOES to reply, ok? |
#10
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Paris bike shops
Howard Kveck wrote: Well, Wheelsmith is gone. I never really went to PAB much in the past, so I can't relate to what you're saying. But they're a pretty good shop at the moment. Friendly, knowledgeable people, good mechanics (if you need that) and generally a lot of good product. Ask for Adam or Rudy... My favourite Wheelsmith moment: One of my dropouts got bent and was unusable, so I went to Wheelsmith to get it fixed. They told me that it would only be ready the following week, and maintained that position even when I told them that I had a race that weekend and they were a sponsor for my club (I had all the relevant documentation). I went to PAB and they fixed it in 15 minutes, while I waited. -ilan |
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