#71
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visibility of DRL
Sir Ridesalot writes:
On Thursday, April 4, 2019 at 5:35:52 PM UTC-4, Frank Krygowski wrote: On 4/4/2019 3:15 PM, jbeattie wrote: On Thursday, April 4, 2019 at 11:15:40 AM UTC-7, Joerg wrote: On 2019-04-03 18:56, David Scheidt wrote: From time to time, we have discussed the visibility of daytime running lights. I commute on a bike with B&M Cyo, which I leave on all the time, because I can't tell the difference if it's on or off. I found myself on google street view on my ride home last fall. I got passed by the car, and then passed it, and got passed again. So I, and the bike, are in a bunch of pictures, from the front and behind, over several blocks. This one gives a good view of the headlight. It's more visible than I'd have expected. This was about an hour before dark, and overcast November day. https://goo.gl/maps/NQURJ9dps3p Not bad, for a StVZO light. However, I went virtually behind you in the street view and it seems you need a better rear light. And as a male toddler I wouldn't want to be seen sitting in that rose-colored baby seat :-) Really? https://tinyurl.com/y5v8pva3 He's more visible than the gray Hyundai ahead of him. I would have absolutely no problem seeing him if I were in a car or on a bike. For some "Danger! Danger!" people, it's not enough to be clearly visible. They're not satisfied unless they are absolutely the most noticeable people on the street, visible from a mile away. What's next? Several of these per bike, with lights fastened to the top? https://www.amazon.com/Safety-Flags-...=fsclp_pl_dp_2 -- - Frank Krygowski I see a fair number of pedestrians these days wearing high-visibility workmens' vests complete with the multiple reflective strips. It seems to me that the "DANGER! DANGER!" thing is getting into everything. I admit to owning one of those. I have worn it walking during snowstorms, to make it less likely to be run over by a plow guy low on sleep or some person making an emergency run to the packie*. I have also worn it, when cycling, over a nonreflective winter coat, when none of my cycling jackets was warm enough. If it's dark and wintry I want to be visible. On the other hand, I agree that wearing one on a quiet street, on a nice night (or broad day), is a bit over the top. -- |
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#72
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visibility of DRL
On 2019-04-04 18:18, jbeattie wrote:
On Thursday, April 4, 2019 at 3:01:46 PM UTC-7, Joerg wrote: On 2019-04-04 12:15, jbeattie wrote: On Thursday, April 4, 2019 at 11:15:40 AM UTC-7, Joerg wrote: On 2019-04-03 18:56, David Scheidt wrote: From time to time, we have discussed the visibility of daytime running lights. I commute on a bike with B&M Cyo, which I leave on all the time, because I can't tell the difference if it's on or off. I found myself on google street view on my ride home last fall. I got passed by the car, and then passed it, and got passed again. So I, and the bike, are in a bunch of pictures, from the front and behind, over several blocks. This one gives a good view of the headlight. It's more visible than I'd have expected. This was about an hour before dark, and overcast November day. https://goo.gl/maps/NQURJ9dps3p Not bad, for a StVZO light. However, I went virtually behind you in the street view and it seems you need a better rear light. And as a male toddler I wouldn't want to be seen sitting in that rose-colored baby seat :-) Really? https://tinyurl.com/y5v8pva3 He's more visible than the gray Hyundai ahead of him. I would have absolutely no problem seeing him if I were in a car or on a bike. Next to the red car behind it, less visible: https://goo.gl/maps/dNQBiRm4z672 I am not talking about you or me seeing him. I am talking about the slightly soused dude who is keeping an eye on his smart phone. What about the moth effect! https://www.poconorecord.com/article...NEWS/207150316 What if the soused dude who is keeping an eye on his smart phone has a seizure induced by the flasher! What if he is so distracted, he wouldn't notice the second coming -- let alone a retina burning blinky! Lions and tigers and bears, oh my! Especially at night I had neighbors who passed me later say "Man, from the distance I thought it was a cop so I tried to be on my best behavior". Objective accomplished. -- Regards, Joerg http://www.analogconsultants.com/ |
#73
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visibility of DRL
On 2019-04-04 17:18, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 4/4/2019 6:01 PM, Joerg wrote: On 2019-04-04 12:15, jbeattie wrote: On Thursday, April 4, 2019 at 11:15:40 AM UTC-7, Joerg wrote: On 2019-04-03 18:56, David Scheidt wrote: From time to time, we have discussed the visibility of daytime running lights. I commute on a bike with B&M Cyo, which I leave on all the time, because I can't tell the difference if it's on or off. I found myself on google street view on my ride home last fall. I got passed by the car, and then passed it, and got passed again. So I, and the bike, are in a bunch of pictures, from the front and behind, over several blocks. This one gives a good view of the headlight. It's more visible than I'd have expected. This was about an hour before dark, and overcast November day. https://goo.gl/maps/NQURJ9dps3p Not bad, for a StVZO light. However, I went virtually behind you in the street view and it seems you need a better rear light. And as a male toddler I wouldn't want to be seen sitting in that rose-colored baby seat :-) Really? https://tinyurl.com/y5v8pva3 He's more visible than the gray Hyundai ahead of him. I would have absolutely no problem seeing him if I were in a car or on a bike. Next to the red car behind it, less visible: https://goo.gl/maps/dNQBiRm4z672 Yes, because he chose a red jacket. If he chose yellow, he'd be better off with the red car as background. But then he might come upon a yellow car. Perhaps he should use green? The obvious solution is to carry a full wardrobe of various colors and quickly change jackets depending on traffic conditions. No, just lights of motorcycle-grade brightness. Good enough. Much more seriously: "less visible" than some theoretical maximum is not necessarily a problem. A cyclist needs to be visible _enough_. And despite the currently fashionable fear mongering, that does not require any technology that wasn't common 20 years ago. Good grief, Joerg, how did you survive riding 20 years ago?? Simple. Automotive technology is and was most of the time decades ahead of bicycle technology, and so was I. Even 30+ years ago my bicycles had a real electrical system including a rechargeable battery. At first a small lead-acid battery, kind of heavy. Then NiCd and now LiIon. I skipped the NiMH era. While my road bike still has the dynamo that used to keep batteries charged I no longer use that dynamo. The LiIon pack is good enough for 4h rides with the ship fully lit and I don't need DRL on bike paths which, of course, I prefer. Meaning I can ride all day and re-charge at home. A cop in Germany wanted to give me a ticket for "non-StVZO compliant lights". Unfortunately for him I was able to prove foreign residency so he had to let me _and_ the bright lights go. Next upgrade, some day, is a 8V - 5V switchmode converter so I can plug in USB stuff. Turns out my bike's MP3 player which has its own battery only lasts 2h and then it would last all day. If another rider's cell phone runs out of juice I could help them out as well. It may take another 10-20 years until the bicyle industry figures this out. Or maybe never. -- Regards, Joerg http://www.analogconsultants.com/ |
#74
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visibility of DRL
On 4/5/2019 2:50 PM, Joerg wrote:
Especially at night I had neighbors who passed me later say "Man, from the distance I thought it was a cop so I tried to be on my best behavior". Objective accomplished. Similarly, I've had multiple people comment on how good my lights were. On my nighttime route home from work, there were two different instances where a motorist and a motorcyclist spontaneously complimented my lights as we sat at a red light, saying they could see my lights "from way back there." I've had pedestrians shout "nice lights" when I rode by. I had a co-worker on a committee remark about seeing my "space-shipey" lights when I rode by her house. I had a colleague from work stop me after he drove by to ask "What's that super bright light down by your rear axle?" (It was a reflector.) I've had many motorists wait inordinately long for me to pass before either making left turns across my path, or pulling out from stop signs to my right. In all those cases, at least three cars would have had time to make the same maneuver before I got to the intersection. All the above is with lights that were powered by a 3 Watt dynamo, and/or very ordinary reflectors. In almost all cases, the lights weren't even LED. They were halogen bulbs. -- - Frank Krygowski |
#75
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visibility of DRL
On 4/5/2019 3:03 PM, Joerg wrote:
On 2019-04-04 17:18, Frank Krygowski wrote: Much more seriously: "less visible" than some theoretical maximum is not necessarily a problem. A cyclist needs to be visible _enough_. And despite the currently fashionable fear mongering, that does not require any technology that wasn't common 20 years ago. Good grief, Joerg, how did you survive riding 20 years ago?? Simple. Automotive technology is and was most of the time decades ahead of bicycle technology, and so was I. Even 30+ years ago my bicycles had a real electrical system including a rechargeable battery. At first a small lead-acid battery, kind of heavy. Then NiCd and now LiIon. And because of that, you're the only person who survived riding 20 years ago? Sorry. You may have your superstitions, but I've been riding at night, including home from work, since about 1977. I used perfectly normal equipment. I've had zero problems. If your mega lights were really necessary to keep cyclists safe, the government would have required them long ago. The fact that some countries actually outlaw what you use should be a clue. -- - Frank Krygowski |
#77
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visibility of DRL
On Friday, April 5, 2019 at 10:52:09 AM UTC-7, wrote:
On Thursday, April 4, 2019 at 3:14:39 PM UTC-7, jbeattie wrote: On Thursday, April 4, 2019 at 2:35:52 PM UTC-7, Frank Krygowski wrote: On 4/4/2019 3:15 PM, jbeattie wrote: On Thursday, April 4, 2019 at 11:15:40 AM UTC-7, Joerg wrote: On 2019-04-03 18:56, David Scheidt wrote: From time to time, we have discussed the visibility of daytime running lights. I commute on a bike with B&M Cyo, which I leave on all the time, because I can't tell the difference if it's on or off. I found myself on google street view on my ride home last fall. I got passed by the car, and then passed it, and got passed again. So I, and the bike, are in a bunch of pictures, from the front and behind, over several blocks. This one gives a good view of the headlight. It's more visible than I'd have expected. This was about an hour before dark, and overcast November day. https://goo.gl/maps/NQURJ9dps3p Not bad, for a StVZO light. However, I went virtually behind you in the street view and it seems you need a better rear light. And as a male toddler I wouldn't want to be seen sitting in that rose-colored baby seat :-) Really? https://tinyurl.com/y5v8pva3 He's more visible than the gray Hyundai ahead of him. I would have absolutely no problem seeing him if I were in a car or on a bike. For some "Danger! Danger!" people, it's not enough to be clearly visible. They're not satisfied unless they are absolutely the most noticeable people on the street, visible from a mile away. What's next? Several of these per bike, with lights fastened to the top? https://www.amazon.com/Safety-Flags-...=fsclp_pl_dp_2 The commuter scrum: https://bikeportland.org/2016/05/04/...o-essay-182506 Imagine if all those people had eye-popping, retina burning flashers and headlights. And why do you need mega-light DRLs anyway? The vaunted Odense study proved that a tiny, induction powered front light prevented bicycle accidents -- even one-bike accidents, which is pretty amazing. http://www.eltis.org/discover/case-s...odense-denmark https://www.reelight.com/collections...s/products/cph I'm fine with safety equipment that isn't annoying or unsafe. I'm not going to prescribe for others. Get your vest and flippy flag, clog the facility riding 8mph, but don't f****** blind me with your mega-light DRL! Consider this my very brief manifesto. Violators will be insulted with grammatically complex, late Victorian put-downs provided by Andre Jute. -- Jay Beattie. Systemic racism? So riding a bike on what should have been a residential thoroughfare represents systemic racism? Exactly how do the media get away with statements like that? It's not the media -- its a thing. North Portland used to be a black community, largely created during the war years with mass migration of black workers to the Kaiser shipyards. The demographics changed post-war, gentrification and urban renewal occurred, and now we're trying to recreate the magical past. The right-minded white folk are attempting to "reintroduce" blacks into the area with paternalistic (if not racist) programs, including the so-called "Right to Return" program, which has been an expensive flop. https://www.theguardian.com/cities/2...e-right-return https://www.oregonlive.com/portland/...ht_gentri.html It's a twisted approach to race relations, economics, demographics and reality. There is no returning to the past unless you're building a Disneyland ride. If I were black, related to a prior resident and a beneficiary of the program, I'd certainly appreciate the low rent, but at the same time, I'd feel like the plastic hippo. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_o1n4Yrhi2Y I'd also tire of all the traffic and all the white hipsters packed into the former rib shack which is now a Thai fusion restaurant with $15 drinks and a waiting line around the block. -- Jay Beattie. |
#78
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visibility of DRL
On Friday, April 5, 2019 at 2:03:23 PM UTC-5, Joerg wrote:
Next upgrade, some day, is a 8V - 5V switchmode converter so I can plug in USB stuff. Turns out my bike's MP3 player which has its own battery only lasts 2h and then it would last all day. If another rider's cell phone runs out of juice I could help them out as well. It may take another 10-20 years until the bicycle industry figures this out. Or maybe never. -- Regards, Joerg Your bike has an MP3 player? Oh Boy. |
#79
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visibility of DRL
On 2019-04-05 13:05, wrote:
On Friday, April 5, 2019 at 2:03:23 PM UTC-5, Joerg wrote: Next upgrade, some day, is a 8V - 5V switchmode converter so I can plug in USB stuff. Turns out my bike's MP3 player which has its own battery only lasts 2h and then it would last all day. If another rider's cell phone runs out of juice I could help them out as well. It may take another 10-20 years until the bicycle industry figures this out. Or maybe never. -- Regards, Joerg Your bike has an MP3 player? Oh Boy. Yeah, even on the MTB. However, that is only used when riding alone on boring long stretches or uphill slogs. Like here, a long and mostly straight bike path that drones on for 10mi and has little traffic outside rush hour or lunchtime (and no speed limit!): https://www.laidbackcycles.com/wp-co...ail-400247.jpg On the MTB I even carry a small ham radio transceiver but that is only for emergency situations. -- Regards, Joerg http://www.analogconsultants.com/ |
#80
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visibility of DRL
On Friday, April 5, 2019 at 11:50:22 AM UTC-7, Joerg wrote:
On 2019-04-04 18:18, jbeattie wrote: On Thursday, April 4, 2019 at 3:01:46 PM UTC-7, Joerg wrote: On 2019-04-04 12:15, jbeattie wrote: On Thursday, April 4, 2019 at 11:15:40 AM UTC-7, Joerg wrote: On 2019-04-03 18:56, David Scheidt wrote: From time to time, we have discussed the visibility of daytime running lights. I commute on a bike with B&M Cyo, which I leave on all the time, because I can't tell the difference if it's on or off. I found myself on google street view on my ride home last fall. I got passed by the car, and then passed it, and got passed again. So I, and the bike, are in a bunch of pictures, from the front and behind, over several blocks. This one gives a good view of the headlight. It's more visible than I'd have expected. This was about an hour before dark, and overcast November day. https://goo.gl/maps/NQURJ9dps3p Not bad, for a StVZO light. However, I went virtually behind you in the street view and it seems you need a better rear light. And as a male toddler I wouldn't want to be seen sitting in that rose-colored baby seat :-) Really? https://tinyurl.com/y5v8pva3 He's more visible than the gray Hyundai ahead of him. I would have absolutely no problem seeing him if I were in a car or on a bike. Next to the red car behind it, less visible: https://goo.gl/maps/dNQBiRm4z672 I am not talking about you or me seeing him. I am talking about the slightly soused dude who is keeping an eye on his smart phone. What about the moth effect! https://www.poconorecord.com/article...NEWS/207150316 What if the soused dude who is keeping an eye on his smart phone has a seizure induced by the flasher! What if he is so distracted, he wouldn't notice the second coming -- let alone a retina burning blinky! Lions and tigers and bears, oh my! Especially at night I had neighbors who passed me later say "Man, from the distance I thought it was a cop so I tried to be on my best behavior". Objective accomplished. That's night. We're talking day. And if motorists think you're a cop, they're blind idiots and should have their licenses pulled -- unless you're riding with a blue light bar. I have never mistaken a bicycle with a red flasher for the police, and I ride around hundreds cyclists with flashers every day. I think my observed record is five rear flashers, including the helmet arrow. https://lumoshelmet..co/ All that dope needed was a calliope and a stuffed monkey with cymbals and chattering teeth. He probably attracted cars, transfixed like moths. This is my safety get-up: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-ojn3Lgg1mI -- Jay Beattie. |
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