Torygraph argues that driving crime is not real crime...

Melanie wrote:

How thick are you. Do you only slow down because of the speed limit.

Not the only reason, though a posted limit often warns me there may well
be a good reason to slow down.

No it doesn't. It is usually in towns which is **why** people slow down.

But your theory has been that people break limits to be macho. So if
they do that in towns with lots of people to watch it'll be more macho,
so they'd do it more.

Say that again so we know what you mean.

You see limits which don't mean exactly what they say, but that is
/not/ the same thing at all as limits which mean /nothing/. i.e., a 30
limit is often construed as "about 40", but if it meant nothing then it
would be taken as "as fast as I feel like going".

Whats all this N + n stuff. If there are houses and shops and schools
drivers should go slower unless they are really stupid. If its a 30 limit
they'll go faster to show off.

Which would be really stupid, by your own definition. So people are
really stupid, so why will the presence of houses make them stop?

None of them had cars 20 years ago.

That's not answering the question. I didn't have a car 100 years ago,
but I think the car I drive is safer in most respects than those that
are. Not having had a car 100 years ago does not prevent me from having
an educated opinion on its relative safety.

They dont want to hit anyone. The limits only there because it is a village
I think.

Of course that's why they're there. But that observation in no way
underscores anything else you've said or undermines anything I've said.

Pete.
--
Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/

Gawnsoft wrote:
On Tue, 24 Aug 2004 12:53:51 +0100, "Melanie" wrote (more or less):

Gawnsoft wrote:
...
you seem to think limits are what invoke macho displays.

Not "think", "know". You see it everywhere. I was at the seaside
at the weekend. Out of the numerous places that the local kids
could dive from they chose an area signed "diving prohibited".

And you don't think that they put the sign there because that's where
folk used to dive from anyway?

If they put it somewhere safe it would be better to stop the kids diving at
the dangerous place. Like with smoking if they banned kids buying carrots
or something that was good for them and made it OK to buy cigs.

--
Melanie xxx

"Melanie" writes:

Just zis Guy, you know? wrote:
Melanie wrote:

Would you rather a limit that ensured 90% drove above it, or no
limit, therefore no incentive to drive faster than your comfort
level?

*Whoop!* *Whoop!* Bogus Assumption Alert!

You big prat.

Ah, ad-hominem. So now we know where we stand.

*whoop!* *whoop!* ad-hominem.

*whoop!* *whoop!* ad-hominem.

Wow, it's fun this game. I wonder what ad-hominem means.

A

On Tue, 24 Aug 2004 14:03:56 +0100, "Melanie" wrote
(more or less):

Peter Clinch wrote:
Melanie wrote:
Just zis Guy, you know? wrote:

*Whoop!* *Whoop!* Bogus Assumption Alert!

You big prat.

"I can't refute that, so I'll just be rude".

"What evidence have I got" Blah de blah de blah. I'm not the
police. I say what I see. I see limits which mean nothing.

Not true, or people would be speeding at the same speed in a 30 zone
as in a 60 zone,

How thick are you. Do you only slow down because of the speed limit.

According to you, people only drive fast because of the speed limit.

I don't think you're in a position to call people names.

....

....
--
Cheers,
Euan
Gawnsoft: http://www.gawnsoft.co.sr
Symbian/Epoc wiki: http://html.dnsalias.net:1122
Smalltalk links (harvested from comp.lang.smalltalk) http://html.dnsalias.net/gawnsoft/smalltalk

Peter Clinch wrote:
Melanie wrote:

How thick are you. Do you only slow down because of the speed limit.

Not the only reason, though a posted limit often warns me there may
well be a good reason to slow down.

You need a sign to say HOUSES if you cant see them so you know if they are
there.

No it doesn't. It is usually in towns which is **why** people slow
down.

But your theory has been that people break limits to be macho.

They do I think.

So if
they do that in towns with lots of people to watch it'll be more
macho, so they'd do it more.

Not if there is no limit to break. They'll have to do something else.

Say that again so we know what you mean.

You see limits which don't mean exactly what they say, but that is
/not/ the same thing at all as limits which mean /nothing/. i.e., a
30 limit is often construed as "about 40", but if it meant nothing
then it would be taken as "as fast as I feel like going".

So you think that a 30 sign really means 40.

Whats all this N + n stuff. If there are houses and shops and
schools drivers should go slower unless they are really stupid. If
its a 30 limit they'll go faster to show off.

Which would be really stupid, by your own definition.

People do stupid things when they are told not to.

So people are
really stupid, so why will the presence of houses make them stop?

So they dont hit anybody.

None of them had cars 20 years ago.

That's not answering the question. I didn't have a car 100 years ago,

You sound like you did :-)

but I think the car I drive is safer in most respects than those that
are. Not having had a car 100 years ago does not prevent me from
having an educated opinion on its relative safety.

The badge doesn't make it safer it is the driver.

They dont want to hit anyone. The limits only there because it is a
village I think.

Of course that's why they're there. But that observation in no way
underscores anything else you've said or undermines anything I've
said.

Do you only do things that it says on signs? If you saw a wall with no sign
to say stop would you ride your bike in to it and complain when it hurt?

--
Melanie xxx

On Tue, 24 Aug 2004 14:15:54 +0100, "Melanie" wrote
(more or less):
....
If the limit was 150 mph would everyone still go faster than it?

Well, you've been arguing that people only drive fast because they
feel a need to go faster than the limit.

So, by your own reaoning, yes.

But you seem to be posing this question now to argue that people don't
go fast because of limits.

Maybe you'd best just decide which side of the argument you're on, and
then let us know.


--
Cheers,
Euan
Gawnsoft: http://www.gawnsoft.co.sr
Symbian/Epoc wiki: http://html.dnsalias.net:1122
Smalltalk links (harvested from comp.lang.smalltalk) http://html.dnsalias.net/gawnsoft/smalltalk

Melanie wrote:

You think everyone obeys the limits.

He doesn't, and never said they did. A limit which reduces speed
towards it, even if not /to/ it, is still having an effect.

It is a coincidence.

"If the facts do not conform to the theory, they should be ignored".
How do you know it's coincidence?

Looks like a biology lesson to me. Does it mean I can tell my dad that I
don't have to wear my helmet on my bike?

That's a separate issue. Look at www.cyclehelmets.org, or perhaps more
to the point get your dad to look at it.

If the limit was 150 mph would everyone still go faster than it?

And this question is relevant how?
There is an effective limit to every car's speed which is how fast it
can physically go. If you have no arbitrary limits then the idiots will
just try to get up to as close to that one as they can. As some try to
do anyway, in fact, but some isn't the same as all.

Pete.
--
Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/

Peter Clinch wrote:
Melanie wrote:

You think everyone obeys the limits.

He doesn't, and never said they did. A limit which reduces speed
towards it, even if not /to/ it, is still having an effect.

If more people would slow down without being told to it would be safer. Put
signs with children and houses and things on and everyone will know to be
safe.

It is a coincidence.

"If the facts do not conform to the theory, they should be ignored".
How do you know it's coincidence?

If your wife put a sign in your dinner saying EAT and you did would it be
because of the sign or because you were hungry?

Looks like a biology lesson to me. Does it mean I can tell my dad
that I don't have to wear my helmet on my bike?

That's a separate issue. Look at www.cyclehelmets.org, or perhaps
more to the point get your dad to look at it.

He hasn't got a computer

If the limit was 150 mph would everyone still go faster than it?

And this question is relevant how?

If with a 30 people go at 40 and with a 40 at 50 I wondered.

There is an effective limit to every car's speed which is how fast it
can physically go. If you have no arbitrary limits then the idiots
will just try to get up to as close to that one as they can.

Is that how you ride your bike?

As some
try to do anyway, in fact, but some isn't the same as all.

Is the speed sign better for those that like to obey them or for those that
dont?

--
Melanie xxx

"Melanie" writes:

Is that how you ride your bike?


More to the point, how do you ride your bike?

A

Ambrose Nankivell wrote:
"Melanie" writes:

Is that how you ride your bike?


More to the point, how do you ride your bike?

Do you think I sound dangerous?

--
Melanie xxx