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#11
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Old Bicycle re-hab
On 9/7/2015 9:32 AM, AMuzi wrote:
On 9/6/2015 8:16 PM, John B. wrote: On Sun, 06 Sep 2015 09:35:56 -0500, AMuzi wrote: On 9/6/2015 7:46 AM, John B. wrote: I finally bought the second (3rd? 4th?) hand bike I mentioned a week or so ago and it appears that it is probably a high end Japanese road bike from the 1970's. In any event I plan to make a few modifications , convert to 10 speed, and repaint. The frame will take a bit of work - adding braze-ons for a second bottle bracket, fender eyelets on the fork and rear drop outs, and some cable stops for the rear brake cable. I really like the looks of some of the classic Italian bikes that had chrome ends on the forks and rear triangle and have been thinking of chroming part of the frame before I paint it. I've got a pretty good relationship with a chrome shop and he has, over the years, done considerable work for me and is willing to undertake fussy little jobs like polishing and chroming the hardware for a banjo - thirty or forty fiddly little bits some of them hardly as big as a match stick - so the chroming of only part of the forks and rear triangle is not a problem. However, there are two things I am a bit concerned about. Firstly this frame is certainly double butted chromoly which makes it likely that the fork and chain stays are a bit thinner than usual and I'm wondering whether to just let the guy polish away or to instruct him to do a less that 1st class job with the idea of retaining as much tube thickness as possible, and secondly there might be a problem with hydrogen embitterment, depending on the composition and hardness of the tubes. Question, Has anyone chromed a high end frame and what was the results? Did you have the polisher do a slap-dash polishing job to avoid thinning the tubes or just let them do "their thing"? Question. Has anyone chromed a high end, light weight, frame and later had it break in a manner that might indicate embitterment? -- cheers, John B. We have a regular customer in Thailand who reports excellent chroming service, at giveaway rates compared to USA, including a pair of classic Cinellis. A business with high voltage, vats of acid, cotton dust and humans holding odd shaped objects against big buff wheels is a regulator's dream and so a large number have been eliminated. The remaining ones are mostly tumble platers of small parts. Everything is "giveaway rates" compared to USA" :-} But yes, trying to explain OSHA to a Thai is like trying to describe the Sahara to a fish. But having said that years ago I worked in a Gunsmith shop in Shreveport LA, where we did a considerable amount of hot tank blueing and plating and the old fellow - probably 60+, who had been a plater all his life and who managed the plating and blueing end of the business, had no septum in his nose. Apparently it is a known result of working with acids and hot solutions of corrosive "stuff". He was, and had been, aware, since being an apprentice boy, of what caused the problem and had simply made the decision to ignore it. Had there been such a thing as OSHA in those days the shop owner would have had to abandoned that portion of the business and the old fellow would have been out of a job. As it was he set all prices and estimates for the blueing/plating side of things and literally paid the Shop a commission on each job that he did and apparently was doing right well. He drove a new car, his wife drove a new car, he lived a bit out in the country on a very nice, and well kept farm. Far better than having your business shut down or priced out of the market by the Government :-) As with any plater, I would take some time to explain that the lug edges and bottle bosses need not be completely removed on the buff wheel. Also try to impress him that your tubes are only 0.6mm in the thin parts. A local hobby builder showed us a fork which was cut right through on both blades just below the crown by a plater whose usual work is furniture and classic car bumpers. Yes, in any event I will explain exactly what I want and how and as I mentioned he did all the hardware for a banjo that I rebuilt and did it exactly as I requested. Another shop had looked at the bag of bits and pieces I had immediately said that they were so busy at the moment that it might be "next month". "But yes, trying to explain OSHA to a Thai is like trying to describe the Sahara to a fish." Examples abound. Stalin accused the landed farmers of not producing enough wheat so he killed nearly all of them. The more they killed, the less wheat was produced. The net effect was to strengthen the Party and the NKVD. Several millions in Russia and Ukraine starved to death but from the Party viewpoint that's minor collateral damage. Regulators care about regulation and the power of the martinets, not jobs, not GDP, not actual citizens' lives. You get that in a lot of situations, not just regulations. There are "Danger! Danger!" proponents, who say that if [sorry, folks] mandating helmets dissuades people from cycling, that's just fine, because then fewer people will get bicycle injuries. There are bicycle facility advocates who say it's perfectly fine to have mandatory sidepath laws, i.e. to put in bike paths and forbid cyclists to use the road. For our own good, you see. Humans seem prone to adopting ideologies, and committing to them beyond logic. It's just the way we are. -- - Frank Krygowski |
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#12
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Old Bicycle re-hab
On 9/7/2015 9:21 AM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 9/7/2015 9:32 AM, AMuzi wrote: On 9/6/2015 8:16 PM, John B. wrote: On Sun, 06 Sep 2015 09:35:56 -0500, AMuzi wrote: On 9/6/2015 7:46 AM, John B. wrote: I finally bought the second (3rd? 4th?) hand bike I mentioned a week or so ago and it appears that it is probably a high end Japanese road bike from the 1970's. In any event I plan to make a few modifications , convert to 10 speed, and repaint. The frame will take a bit of work - adding braze-ons for a second bottle bracket, fender eyelets on the fork and rear drop outs, and some cable stops for the rear brake cable. I really like the looks of some of the classic Italian bikes that had chrome ends on the forks and rear triangle and have been thinking of chroming part of the frame before I paint it. I've got a pretty good relationship with a chrome shop and he has, over the years, done considerable work for me and is willing to undertake fussy little jobs like polishing and chroming the hardware for a banjo - thirty or forty fiddly little bits some of them hardly as big as a match stick - so the chroming of only part of the forks and rear triangle is not a problem. However, there are two things I am a bit concerned about. Firstly this frame is certainly double butted chromoly which makes it likely that the fork and chain stays are a bit thinner than usual and I'm wondering whether to just let the guy polish away or to instruct him to do a less that 1st class job with the idea of retaining as much tube thickness as possible, and secondly there might be a problem with hydrogen embitterment, depending on the composition and hardness of the tubes. Question, Has anyone chromed a high end frame and what was the results? Did you have the polisher do a slap-dash polishing job to avoid thinning the tubes or just let them do "their thing"? Question. Has anyone chromed a high end, light weight, frame and later had it break in a manner that might indicate embitterment? -- cheers, John B. We have a regular customer in Thailand who reports excellent chroming service, at giveaway rates compared to USA, including a pair of classic Cinellis. A business with high voltage, vats of acid, cotton dust and humans holding odd shaped objects against big buff wheels is a regulator's dream and so a large number have been eliminated. The remaining ones are mostly tumble platers of small parts. Everything is "giveaway rates" compared to USA" :-} But yes, trying to explain OSHA to a Thai is like trying to describe the Sahara to a fish. But having said that years ago I worked in a Gunsmith shop in Shreveport LA, where we did a considerable amount of hot tank blueing and plating and the old fellow - probably 60+, who had been a plater all his life and who managed the plating and blueing end of the business, had no septum in his nose. Apparently it is a known result of working with acids and hot solutions of corrosive "stuff". He was, and had been, aware, since being an apprentice boy, of what caused the problem and had simply made the decision to ignore it. Had there been such a thing as OSHA in those days the shop owner would have had to abandoned that portion of the business and the old fellow would have been out of a job. As it was he set all prices and estimates for the blueing/plating side of things and literally paid the Shop a commission on each job that he did and apparently was doing right well. He drove a new car, his wife drove a new car, he lived a bit out in the country on a very nice, and well kept farm. Far better than having your business shut down or priced out of the market by the Government :-) As with any plater, I would take some time to explain that the lug edges and bottle bosses need not be completely removed on the buff wheel. Also try to impress him that your tubes are only 0.6mm in the thin parts. A local hobby builder showed us a fork which was cut right through on both blades just below the crown by a plater whose usual work is furniture and classic car bumpers. Yes, in any event I will explain exactly what I want and how and as I mentioned he did all the hardware for a banjo that I rebuilt and did it exactly as I requested. Another shop had looked at the bag of bits and pieces I had immediately said that they were so busy at the moment that it might be "next month". "But yes, trying to explain OSHA to a Thai is like trying to describe the Sahara to a fish." Examples abound. Stalin accused the landed farmers of not producing enough wheat so he killed nearly all of them. The more they killed, the less wheat was produced. The net effect was to strengthen the Party and the NKVD. Several millions in Russia and Ukraine starved to death but from the Party viewpoint that's minor collateral damage. Regulators care about regulation and the power of the martinets, not jobs, not GDP, not actual citizens' lives. You get that in a lot of situations, not just regulations. There are "Danger! Danger!" proponents, who say that if [sorry, folks] mandating helmets dissuades people from cycling, that's just fine, because then fewer people will get bicycle injuries. There are bicycle facility advocates who say it's perfectly fine to have mandatory sidepath laws, i.e. to put in bike paths and forbid cyclists to use the road. For our own good, you see. Humans seem prone to adopting ideologies, and committing to them beyond logic. It's just the way we are. If there's some big difference between traffic 'engineers' and the NKVD, I missed it. -- Andrew Muzi www.yellowjersey.org/ Open every day since 1 April, 1971 |
#13
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Old Bicycle re-hab
On Monday, September 7, 2015 at 11:05:33 AM UTC-4, AMuzi wrote:
On 9/7/2015 9:21 AM, Frank Krygowski wrote: On 9/7/2015 9:32 AM, AMuzi wrote: On 9/6/2015 8:16 PM, John B. wrote: On Sun, 06 Sep 2015 09:35:56 -0500, AMuzi wrote: On 9/6/2015 7:46 AM, John B. wrote: I finally bought the second (3rd? 4th?) hand bike I mentioned a week or so ago and it appears that it is probably a high end Japanese road bike from the 1970's. In any event I plan to make a few modifications , convert to 10 speed, and repaint. The frame will take a bit of work - adding braze-ons for a second bottle bracket, fender eyelets on the fork and rear drop outs, and some cable stops for the rear brake cable. I really like the looks of some of the classic Italian bikes that had chrome ends on the forks and rear triangle and have been thinking of chroming part of the frame before I paint it. I've got a pretty good relationship with a chrome shop and he has, over the years, done considerable work for me and is willing to undertake fussy little jobs like polishing and chroming the hardware for a banjo - thirty or forty fiddly little bits some of them hardly as big as a match stick - so the chroming of only part of the forks and rear triangle is not a problem. However, there are two things I am a bit concerned about. Firstly this frame is certainly double butted chromoly which makes it likely that the fork and chain stays are a bit thinner than usual and I'm wondering whether to just let the guy polish away or to instruct him to do a less that 1st class job with the idea of retaining as much tube thickness as possible, and secondly there might be a problem with hydrogen embitterment, depending on the composition and hardness of the tubes. Question, Has anyone chromed a high end frame and what was the results? Did you have the polisher do a slap-dash polishing job to avoid thinning the tubes or just let them do "their thing"? Question. Has anyone chromed a high end, light weight, frame and later had it break in a manner that might indicate embitterment? -- cheers, John B. We have a regular customer in Thailand who reports excellent chroming service, at giveaway rates compared to USA, including a pair of classic Cinellis. A business with high voltage, vats of acid, cotton dust and humans holding odd shaped objects against big buff wheels is a regulator's dream and so a large number have been eliminated. The remaining ones are mostly tumble platers of small parts. Everything is "giveaway rates" compared to USA" :-} But yes, trying to explain OSHA to a Thai is like trying to describe the Sahara to a fish. But having said that years ago I worked in a Gunsmith shop in Shreveport LA, where we did a considerable amount of hot tank blueing and plating and the old fellow - probably 60+, who had been a plater all his life and who managed the plating and blueing end of the business, had no septum in his nose. Apparently it is a known result of working with acids and hot solutions of corrosive "stuff". He was, and had been, aware, since being an apprentice boy, of what caused the problem and had simply made the decision to ignore it. Had there been such a thing as OSHA in those days the shop owner would have had to abandoned that portion of the business and the old fellow would have been out of a job. As it was he set all prices and estimates for the blueing/plating side of things and literally paid the Shop a commission on each job that he did and apparently was doing right well. He drove a new car, his wife drove a new car, he lived a bit out in the country on a very nice, and well kept farm. Far better than having your business shut down or priced out of the market by the Government :-) As with any plater, I would take some time to explain that the lug edges and bottle bosses need not be completely removed on the buff wheel. Also try to impress him that your tubes are only 0.6mm in the thin parts. A local hobby builder showed us a fork which was cut right through on both blades just below the crown by a plater whose usual work is furniture and classic car bumpers. Yes, in any event I will explain exactly what I want and how and as I mentioned he did all the hardware for a banjo that I rebuilt and did it exactly as I requested. Another shop had looked at the bag of bits and pieces I had immediately said that they were so busy at the moment that it might be "next month". "But yes, trying to explain OSHA to a Thai is like trying to describe the Sahara to a fish." Examples abound. Stalin accused the landed farmers of not producing enough wheat so he killed nearly all of them. The more they killed, the less wheat was produced. The net effect was to strengthen the Party and the NKVD. Several millions in Russia and Ukraine starved to death but from the Party viewpoint that's minor collateral damage. Regulators care about regulation and the power of the martinets, not jobs, not GDP, not actual citizens' lives. You get that in a lot of situations, not just regulations. There are "Danger! Danger!" proponents, who say that if [sorry, folks] mandating helmets dissuades people from cycling, that's just fine, because then fewer people will get bicycle injuries. There are bicycle facility advocates who say it's perfectly fine to have mandatory sidepath laws, i.e. to put in bike paths and forbid cyclists to use the road. For our own good, you see. Humans seem prone to adopting ideologies, and committing to them beyond logic. It's just the way we are. If there's some big difference between traffic 'engineers' and the NKVD, I missed it. -- Andrew Muzi www.yellowjersey.org/ Open every day since 1 April, 1971 if yawl wanna carry this a step further, the difference tween Midland Daniels and the FIVE YEAR PLAN forcing family farmers into 'truck farming' is Russia's inhospitable climate and extremely thin 'topsoil' |
#14
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Old Bicycle re-hab
On Monday, September 7, 2015 at 6:33:01 AM UTC-7, AMuzi wrote:
On 9/6/2015 8:16 PM, John B. wrote: snip "But yes, trying to explain OSHA to a Thai is like trying to describe the Sahara to a fish." Examples abound. Stalin accused the landed farmers of not producing enough wheat so he killed nearly all of them. The more they killed, the less wheat was produced. The net effect was to strengthen the Party and the NKVD. Several millions in Russia and Ukraine starved to death but from the Party viewpoint that's minor collateral damage. Regulators care about regulation and the power of the martinets, not jobs, not GDP, not actual citizens' lives. Yikes. We could go back to the good old days before the FDA. A few regulators prevented a lot of US kids from being born with flippers for arms. The first workers compensation statutes were adopted just after the turn of the 20th century. Before then, an employee was precluded from suing his employer by a couple of common law doctrines including the fellow-servant rule, assumption of the risk and contributory negligence. So what happened is that injured employees became wards of the state or churches or families. Business expenses were being foisted on to the society at large. OSHA came into existence for much the same reason -- to protect workers and to reduce the societal impact of work injuries. Compliance is a cost of doing business. Some of the more arcane rules have little utility, though, and should be removed. Safety committees are pretty useless in office buildings. I have nothing but good things to say about the EPA because it is putting my son through college. I hardly know a lawyer who is not involved in the Portland Harbor Superfund mess. The Clean Water Act -- and the stormwater permitting process -- is an endless source of extortion for some environmental groups. That pinko Richard Nixon and his damned CWA! Thank you for the defense work, Dick. He could play piano, too. -- Jay Beattie. |
#15
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Old Bicycle re-hab
Beattie's a SOCIALIST nyah nyah.....
yeah I have incipient emphysema within ne lung from a house fire. So wandering up the coast Thanksgiving weekend uh '91 ? drove into wonderful damp cool clean air Oregon. aaaaaaahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh..... off course the crackers were shut down for the weekend..... had the same deal in Armstrongville with a big time Texas snowstorm driving me off the barefoot coast into a warm motel......ahhhhhhhhhhh wonderful air fit for a TdF champion...off course the epoxy refineries went down before the snow storm and after I asked a parkee over at the reservoir WTH the poisonous fog was comin from n he said its the cedar trees....these cedar trees...pointing at one abt 40' away, he said, give off the foulest toxic odor imaginable. Like the town on the west side going up the hill where the Feds are removing creosote soaked soil underneath the town then lowering the buildings back into a deephole the scene on Portland is immediately recognizable in Google Ert or maps http://yosemite.epa.gov/R10/CLEANUP....Superfund+Site they are everywhere....roundem up an shootem. |
#16
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Old Bicycle re-hab
On 9/7/2015 2:40 PM, jbeattie wrote:
The first workers compensation statutes were adopted just after the turn of the 20th century. Before then, an employee was precluded from suing his employer by a couple of common law doctrines including the fellow-servant rule, assumption of the risk and contributory negligence. So what happened is that injured employees became wards of the state or churches or families. Business expenses were being foisted on to the society at large. OSHA came into existence for much the same reason -- to protect workers and to reduce the societal impact of work injuries. Compliance is a cost of doing business. I do wish OSHA had been in effect during the 1930s and 1940s. It would probably have let at least one of my grandfathers survive long enough to meet me. -- - Frank Krygowski |
#17
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Old Bicycle re-hab
On Mon, 07 Sep 2015 08:32:51 -0500, AMuzi wrote:
On 9/6/2015 8:16 PM, John B. wrote: On Sun, 06 Sep 2015 09:35:56 -0500, AMuzi wrote: On 9/6/2015 7:46 AM, John B. wrote: I finally bought the second (3rd? 4th?) hand bike I mentioned a week or so ago and it appears that it is probably a high end Japanese road bike from the 1970's. In any event I plan to make a few modifications , convert to 10 speed, and repaint. The frame will take a bit of work - adding braze-ons for a second bottle bracket, fender eyelets on the fork and rear drop outs, and some cable stops for the rear brake cable. I really like the looks of some of the classic Italian bikes that had chrome ends on the forks and rear triangle and have been thinking of chroming part of the frame before I paint it. I've got a pretty good relationship with a chrome shop and he has, over the years, done considerable work for me and is willing to undertake fussy little jobs like polishing and chroming the hardware for a banjo - thirty or forty fiddly little bits some of them hardly as big as a match stick - so the chroming of only part of the forks and rear triangle is not a problem. However, there are two things I am a bit concerned about. Firstly this frame is certainly double butted chromoly which makes it likely that the fork and chain stays are a bit thinner than usual and I'm wondering whether to just let the guy polish away or to instruct him to do a less that 1st class job with the idea of retaining as much tube thickness as possible, and secondly there might be a problem with hydrogen embitterment, depending on the composition and hardness of the tubes. Question, Has anyone chromed a high end frame and what was the results? Did you have the polisher do a slap-dash polishing job to avoid thinning the tubes or just let them do "their thing"? Question. Has anyone chromed a high end, light weight, frame and later had it break in a manner that might indicate embitterment? -- cheers, John B. We have a regular customer in Thailand who reports excellent chroming service, at giveaway rates compared to USA, including a pair of classic Cinellis. A business with high voltage, vats of acid, cotton dust and humans holding odd shaped objects against big buff wheels is a regulator's dream and so a large number have been eliminated. The remaining ones are mostly tumble platers of small parts. Everything is "giveaway rates" compared to USA" :-} But yes, trying to explain OSHA to a Thai is like trying to describe the Sahara to a fish. But having said that years ago I worked in a Gunsmith shop in Shreveport LA, where we did a considerable amount of hot tank blueing and plating and the old fellow - probably 60+, who had been a plater all his life and who managed the plating and blueing end of the business, had no septum in his nose. Apparently it is a known result of working with acids and hot solutions of corrosive "stuff". He was, and had been, aware, since being an apprentice boy, of what caused the problem and had simply made the decision to ignore it. Had there been such a thing as OSHA in those days the shop owner would have had to abandoned that portion of the business and the old fellow would have been out of a job. As it was he set all prices and estimates for the blueing/plating side of things and literally paid the Shop a commission on each job that he did and apparently was doing right well. He drove a new car, his wife drove a new car, he lived a bit out in the country on a very nice, and well kept farm. Far better than having your business shut down or priced out of the market by the Government :-) As with any plater, I would take some time to explain that the lug edges and bottle bosses need not be completely removed on the buff wheel. Also try to impress him that your tubes are only 0.6mm in the thin parts. A local hobby builder showed us a fork which was cut right through on both blades just below the crown by a plater whose usual work is furniture and classic car bumpers. Yes, in any event I will explain exactly what I want and how and as I mentioned he did all the hardware for a banjo that I rebuilt and did it exactly as I requested. Another shop had looked at the bag of bits and pieces I had immediately said that they were so busy at the moment that it might be "next month". "But yes, trying to explain OSHA to a Thai is like trying to describe the Sahara to a fish." Examples abound. Stalin accused the landed farmers of not producing enough wheat so he killed nearly all of them. The more they killed, the less wheat was produced. Not to quibble, but I thought that the problem with the landed farmers was that they were landed. Far better to have the masses be without property and dependent solely on "Big Brother's" largess. The Chinese, a pragmatic people, did exactly that and so did the N. Koreans. The Chinese, however, have discovered the advantages of a managed capitalistic system over the government managed socialistic system. Strangely. the Western nations seem to be headed in the opposite direction. The net effect was to strengthen the Party and the NKVD. The NKVD, of course, being the sword and the shield of the party. Several millions in Russia and Ukraine starved to death but from the Party viewpoint that's minor collateral damage. Regulators care about regulation and the power of the martinets, not jobs, not GDP, not actual citizens' lives. One of the great advantages of the Democratic system is that it preserves the advantages of the proletariat, right up to the day after the election. -- cheers, John B. |
#18
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Old Bicycle re-hab
On Mon, 7 Sep 2015 11:40:05 -0700 (PDT), jbeattie
wrote: On Monday, September 7, 2015 at 6:33:01 AM UTC-7, AMuzi wrote: On 9/6/2015 8:16 PM, John B. wrote: snip "But yes, trying to explain OSHA to a Thai is like trying to describe the Sahara to a fish." Examples abound. Stalin accused the landed farmers of not producing enough wheat so he killed nearly all of them. The more they killed, the less wheat was produced. The net effect was to strengthen the Party and the NKVD. Several millions in Russia and Ukraine starved to death but from the Party viewpoint that's minor collateral damage. Regulators care about regulation and the power of the martinets, not jobs, not GDP, not actual citizens' lives. Yikes. We could go back to the good old days before the FDA. A few regulators prevented a lot of US kids from being born with flippers for arms. I think that you are talking about Thalidomide kids. Which was a tragedy. But apparently it was, in a sense, more a matter of improper use, as it is still manufactured and still prescribed. The first workers compensation statutes were adopted just after the turn of the 20th century. Before then, an employee was precluded from suing his employer by a couple of common law doctrines including the fellow-servant rule, assumption of the risk and contributory negligence. So what happened is that injured employees became wards of the state or churches or families. Business expenses were being foisted on to the society at large. OSHA came into existence for much the same reason -- to protect workers and to reduce the societal impact of work injuries. Compliance is a cost of doing business. Some of the more arcane rules have little utility, though, and should be removed. Safety committees are pretty useless in office buildings. While I certainly agree with the concept of protecting the worker I have difficulty equating that with the common traits of the OSHA people themselves. I was once written up by an Air Force Safety Inspector for being in a machine shop without my safety glasses on. When I asked him why it was a safe act for him to enter a machine shop without wearing safety glasses in order to write me up for not wearing safety glasses, he didn't seem to have an answer. Or, in another case, a bloke in the rec.crafts.metalworking group wrote a message commenting on his being written up by OSHA for having the wrong shade of yellow denoting walkways in his small factory. When he researched the question it appeared that the term used in the OSHA regs is "yellow". I could go on and on but why bother. I have nothing but good things to say about the EPA because it is putting my son through college. I hardly know a lawyer who is not involved in the Portland Harbor Superfund mess. The Clean Water Act -- and the stormwater permitting process -- is an endless source of extortion for some environmental groups. That pinko Richard Nixon and his damned CWA! Thank you for the defense work, Dick. He could play piano, too. Yup, that certainly is realistic - Never look a gift horse in the mouth. -- Jay Beattie. -- cheers, John B. |
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