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The Bottom Bracket Question



 
 
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  #1  
Old August 9th 15, 10:09 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
mark cleary
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Posts: 34
Default The Bottom Bracket Question

I know this has been hashed a zillion times but this group has personalities
so I ask. All the press-fit stuff to mean is basically garbage for stability
and ease of maintenance, much less the creaks. Are BSA threaded BB done and
over with and do I just need to get use to, figuring out how to work on and
be comfortable with press fit frames? I just see this as a way to cheapen
the process. To just give a bit of background I repair and play guitars. I
myself work and play some of the most classic jazz guitars around and I see
the newer makers of jazz guitars cutting corners to make things easier. Just
quite using inlay, layers of binding, and certain designs because
frankly.............it makes it easier to build. Oh sure you drop and few
ounces of weight but I made up for it by simply taking less stuff on the
bike.


Deacon Mark Cleary
Epiphany Roman Catholic Church

Ads
  #2  
Old August 9th 15, 11:38 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
[email protected]
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Posts: 6,374
Default The Bottom Bracket Question

Begone !

all the chromed knurling special washers exotic threads....are fine for your nabs Blower Bentley https://goo.gl/3AzAvm

but suck air on a bicycle IMHO

yeah I have a $30 Shimano vinylester BB in my Redline Trekking Cyclocrosser

perfecto ! God bless the star nut

  #3  
Old August 10th 15, 12:53 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
[email protected]
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Default The Bottom Bracket Question

HIJACK

http://www.craftsmanshipmuseum.com/wingrove.htm

  #4  
Old August 10th 15, 01:11 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
James[_8_]
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Posts: 6,153
Default The Bottom Bracket Question

On 10/08/15 07:09, mark cleary wrote:
I know this has been hashed a zillion times but this group has
personalities so I ask. All the press-fit stuff to mean is basically
garbage for stability and ease of maintenance, much less the creaks. Are
BSA threaded BB done and over with and do I just need to get use to,
figuring out how to work on and be comfortable with press fit frames? I
just see this as a way to cheapen the process. To just give a bit of
background I repair and play guitars. I myself work and play some of the
most classic jazz guitars around and I see the newer makers of jazz
guitars cutting corners to make things easier. Just quite using inlay,
layers of binding, and certain designs because frankly.............it
makes it easier to build. Oh sure you drop and few ounces of weight but
I made up for it by simply taking less stuff on the bike.


Stability? Of what? Headset bearing cups have been press fit to the
head tube for donkeys years. They seem stable enough to me.

Ease of maintenance? Well, yes you might need a tool to remove and
install the pressed in bits.

Creaks? Nothing press fitted on my bike creaks.

All these things depend greatly on the particular design, and not the
fact that something is "press fit".

--
JS

  #5  
Old August 10th 15, 01:23 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
AMuzi
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Posts: 13,447
Default The Bottom Bracket Question

On 8/9/2015 4:09 PM, mark cleary wrote:
I know this has been hashed a zillion times but this group
has personalities so I ask. All the press-fit stuff to mean
is basically garbage for stability and ease of maintenance,
much less the creaks. Are BSA threaded BB done and over with
and do I just need to get use to, figuring out how to work
on and be comfortable with press fit frames? I just see this
as a way to cheapen the process. To just give a bit of
background I repair and play guitars. I myself work and play
some of the most classic jazz guitars around and I see the
newer makers of jazz guitars cutting corners to make things
easier. Just quite using inlay, layers of binding, and
certain designs because frankly.............it makes it
easier to build. Oh sure you drop and few ounces of weight
but I made up for it by simply taking less stuff on the bike.


Deacon Mark Cleary
Epiphany Roman Catholic Church


It's complex, probably not nefarious.

Yes carbon lends itself to a non-threaded format. Yes, there
are plenty of builders still producing threaded frames. Both
formats exist across an incredible range of quality and
price. Although one might assume a non threaded frame is
cheaper it's not at all clear that it's a significant expense.

Then we have the crank makers, whose business is getting
their part on new bikes, a couple days of which are bigger
volume than a year's worth of aftermarket. Assembly time is
a big factor in adoption of press systems.

And although one does hear of noises and assembly issues
with press type frames, there's a hundred years of threading
troubles too. The load, torque and precession around a BB is
non-trivial and neither system is perfect.

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971


  #6  
Old August 10th 15, 01:42 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
[email protected]
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Posts: 6,374
Default The Bottom Bracket Question



The load, torque and precession around a BB is
non-trivial and neither system is perfect.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

approach to first time (or second as it is) plastic BB cup install is with a long stick....
  #7  
Old August 10th 15, 07:03 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Andre Jute[_2_]
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Posts: 10,422
Default The Bottom Bracket Question

On Sunday, August 9, 2015 at 10:10:09 PM UTC+1, mark cleary wrote:
I know this has been hashed a zillion times but this group has personalities
so I ask. All the press-fit stuff to mean is basically garbage for stability
and ease of maintenance, much less the creaks. Are BSA threaded BB done and
over with and do I just need to get use to, figuring out how to work on and
be comfortable with press fit frames? I just see this as a way to cheapen
the process. To just give a bit of background I repair and play guitars. I
myself work and play some of the most classic jazz guitars around and I see
the newer makers of jazz guitars cutting corners to make things easier. Just
quite using inlay, layers of binding, and certain designs because
frankly.............it makes it easier to build. Oh sure you drop and few
ounces of weight but I made up for it by simply taking less stuff on the
bike.


Deacon Mark Cleary
Epiphany Roman Catholic Church


A proper pressfit can be a matter of engineering prestige, as in the days of the fitters and turners, the time-served men with the emory rag hanging from their rear pocket, the pride of craftsmen. You'd be amazed how much that could have been threaded if more cheaply made was instead a pressfit on an early Rolls-Royce or a Bentley from the W.O. days: those days of cheap unskilled labour it was the press-fitting that was expensive, because it was done slowly to perfection by highly skilled labour, not the threading, which could be done quickly by less skilled labour.

There's much else on a modern bicycle that is despicably built down to a price. To name one example, the sickening obsession with making one size fit all in not scaling bicycle frame parts, for instance chain stay lengths to wheelbase. For an even more obvious example, supplying only one length of steerer tube, so that the cyclist needs to buy aftermarket parts to get a proper fit on his bike.

Andre Jute
  #8  
Old September 2nd 15, 04:04 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Veloaficionado
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Posts: 3
Default The Bottom Bracket Question

On Monday, 10 August 2015 22:23:38 UTC+10, AMuzi wrote:
On 8/9/2015 4:09 PM, mark cleary wrote:
I know this has been hashed a zillion times but this group
has personalities so I ask. All the press-fit stuff to mean
is basically garbage for stability and ease of maintenance,
much less the creaks. Are BSA threaded BB done and over with
and do I just need to get use to, figuring out how to work
on and be comfortable with press fit frames? I just see this
as a way to cheapen the process. To just give a bit of
background I repair and play guitars. I myself work and play
some of the most classic jazz guitars around and I see the
newer makers of jazz guitars cutting corners to make things
easier. Just quite using inlay, layers of binding, and
certain designs because frankly.............it makes it
easier to build. Oh sure you drop and few ounces of weight
but I made up for it by simply taking less stuff on the bike.


Deacon Mark Cleary
Epiphany Roman Catholic Church


It's complex, probably not nefarious.

Yes carbon lends itself to a non-threaded format. Yes, there
are plenty of builders still producing threaded frames. Both
formats exist across an incredible range of quality and
price. Although one might assume a non threaded frame is
cheaper it's not at all clear that it's a significant expense.

Then we have the crank makers, whose business is getting
their part on new bikes, a couple days of which are bigger
volume than a year's worth of aftermarket. Assembly time is
a big factor in adoption of press systems.

And although one does hear of noises and assembly issues
with press type frames, there's a hundred years of threading
troubles too. The load, torque and precession around a BB is
non-trivial and neither system is perfect.

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971


Thing is, you can remove and replace threaded systems til the cows arrive back for milking: no significant damage if done correctly. Press fit: even if replaced correctly, by iteration about 3-6 you will reaching for the bearing retaining compound, due to the ripping of a very thin layer of bearing seat material off the ID of the frame. Pressfit on bikes = designer (engineer reluctantly following) admitting that their frames are throwaways. Not for this little black duck.
  #9  
Old September 2nd 15, 04:06 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Veloaficionado
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 3
Default The Bottom Bracket Question

On Tuesday, 11 August 2015 04:03:46 UTC+10, Andre Jute wrote:
On Sunday, August 9, 2015 at 10:10:09 PM UTC+1, mark cleary wrote:
I know this has been hashed a zillion times but this group has personalities
so I ask. All the press-fit stuff to mean is basically garbage for stability
and ease of maintenance, much less the creaks. Are BSA threaded BB done and
over with and do I just need to get use to, figuring out how to work on and
be comfortable with press fit frames? I just see this as a way to cheapen
the process. To just give a bit of background I repair and play guitars.. I
myself work and play some of the most classic jazz guitars around and I see
the newer makers of jazz guitars cutting corners to make things easier. Just
quite using inlay, layers of binding, and certain designs because
frankly.............it makes it easier to build. Oh sure you drop and few
ounces of weight but I made up for it by simply taking less stuff on the
bike.


Deacon Mark Cleary
Epiphany Roman Catholic Church


A proper pressfit can be a matter of engineering prestige, as in the days of the fitters and turners, the time-served men with the emory rag hanging from their rear pocket, the pride of craftsmen. You'd be amazed how much that could have been threaded if more cheaply made was instead a pressfit on an early Rolls-Royce or a Bentley from the W.O. days: those days of cheap unskilled labour it was the press-fitting that was expensive, because it was done slowly to perfection by highly skilled labour, not the threading, which could be done quickly by less skilled labour.

There's much else on a modern bicycle that is despicably built down to a price. To name one example, the sickening obsession with making one size fit all in not scaling bicycle frame parts, for instance chain stay lengths to wheelbase. For an even more obvious example, supplying only one length of steerer tube, so that the cyclist needs to buy aftermarket parts to get a proper fit on his bike.

Andre Jute


You do wank on a lot (meant in the kindest possible way).
  #10  
Old September 2nd 15, 12:24 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
john B.
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,603
Default The Bottom Bracket Question

On Tue, 1 Sep 2015 20:04:36 -0700 (PDT), Veloaficionado
wrote:

On Monday, 10 August 2015 22:23:38 UTC+10, AMuzi wrote:
On 8/9/2015 4:09 PM, mark cleary wrote:
I know this has been hashed a zillion times but this group
has personalities so I ask. All the press-fit stuff to mean
is basically garbage for stability and ease of maintenance,
much less the creaks. Are BSA threaded BB done and over with
and do I just need to get use to, figuring out how to work
on and be comfortable with press fit frames? I just see this
as a way to cheapen the process. To just give a bit of
background I repair and play guitars. I myself work and play
some of the most classic jazz guitars around and I see the
newer makers of jazz guitars cutting corners to make things
easier. Just quite using inlay, layers of binding, and
certain designs because frankly.............it makes it
easier to build. Oh sure you drop and few ounces of weight
but I made up for it by simply taking less stuff on the bike.


Deacon Mark Cleary
Epiphany Roman Catholic Church


It's complex, probably not nefarious.

Yes carbon lends itself to a non-threaded format. Yes, there
are plenty of builders still producing threaded frames. Both
formats exist across an incredible range of quality and
price. Although one might assume a non threaded frame is
cheaper it's not at all clear that it's a significant expense.

Then we have the crank makers, whose business is getting
their part on new bikes, a couple days of which are bigger
volume than a year's worth of aftermarket. Assembly time is
a big factor in adoption of press systems.

And although one does hear of noises and assembly issues
with press type frames, there's a hundred years of threading
troubles too. The load, torque and precession around a BB is
non-trivial and neither system is perfect.

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971


Thing is, you can remove and replace threaded systems til the cows arrive back for milking: no significant damage if done correctly. Press fit: even if replaced correctly, by iteration about 3-6 you will reaching for the bearing retaining compound, due to the ripping of a very thin layer of bearing seat material off the ID of the frame. Pressfit on bikes = designer (engineer reluctantly following) admitting that their frames are throwaways. Not for this little black duck.



But I do believe that bicycles have become very much a disposable
item. If one is looking for just basic transportation one you just go
to Amazon - $99.44 used. If you are feeling sporty you can get a
plastic bike, in Singapore, for S$ 500 for the complete frame set.
That is about U.S. 350. (No telling why USian's pay more :-)

For those kind of prices who cares how long they last.

--
cheers,

John B.

 




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