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The Bottom Bracket Question
I know this has been hashed a zillion times but this group has personalities
so I ask. All the press-fit stuff to mean is basically garbage for stability and ease of maintenance, much less the creaks. Are BSA threaded BB done and over with and do I just need to get use to, figuring out how to work on and be comfortable with press fit frames? I just see this as a way to cheapen the process. To just give a bit of background I repair and play guitars. I myself work and play some of the most classic jazz guitars around and I see the newer makers of jazz guitars cutting corners to make things easier. Just quite using inlay, layers of binding, and certain designs because frankly.............it makes it easier to build. Oh sure you drop and few ounces of weight but I made up for it by simply taking less stuff on the bike. Deacon Mark Cleary Epiphany Roman Catholic Church |
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#2
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The Bottom Bracket Question
Begone !
all the chromed knurling special washers exotic threads....are fine for your nabs Blower Bentley https://goo.gl/3AzAvm but suck air on a bicycle IMHO yeah I have a $30 Shimano vinylester BB in my Redline Trekking Cyclocrosser perfecto ! God bless the star nut |
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The Bottom Bracket Question
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#4
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The Bottom Bracket Question
On 10/08/15 07:09, mark cleary wrote:
I know this has been hashed a zillion times but this group has personalities so I ask. All the press-fit stuff to mean is basically garbage for stability and ease of maintenance, much less the creaks. Are BSA threaded BB done and over with and do I just need to get use to, figuring out how to work on and be comfortable with press fit frames? I just see this as a way to cheapen the process. To just give a bit of background I repair and play guitars. I myself work and play some of the most classic jazz guitars around and I see the newer makers of jazz guitars cutting corners to make things easier. Just quite using inlay, layers of binding, and certain designs because frankly.............it makes it easier to build. Oh sure you drop and few ounces of weight but I made up for it by simply taking less stuff on the bike. Stability? Of what? Headset bearing cups have been press fit to the head tube for donkeys years. They seem stable enough to me. Ease of maintenance? Well, yes you might need a tool to remove and install the pressed in bits. Creaks? Nothing press fitted on my bike creaks. All these things depend greatly on the particular design, and not the fact that something is "press fit". -- JS |
#5
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The Bottom Bracket Question
On 8/9/2015 4:09 PM, mark cleary wrote:
I know this has been hashed a zillion times but this group has personalities so I ask. All the press-fit stuff to mean is basically garbage for stability and ease of maintenance, much less the creaks. Are BSA threaded BB done and over with and do I just need to get use to, figuring out how to work on and be comfortable with press fit frames? I just see this as a way to cheapen the process. To just give a bit of background I repair and play guitars. I myself work and play some of the most classic jazz guitars around and I see the newer makers of jazz guitars cutting corners to make things easier. Just quite using inlay, layers of binding, and certain designs because frankly.............it makes it easier to build. Oh sure you drop and few ounces of weight but I made up for it by simply taking less stuff on the bike. Deacon Mark Cleary Epiphany Roman Catholic Church It's complex, probably not nefarious. Yes carbon lends itself to a non-threaded format. Yes, there are plenty of builders still producing threaded frames. Both formats exist across an incredible range of quality and price. Although one might assume a non threaded frame is cheaper it's not at all clear that it's a significant expense. Then we have the crank makers, whose business is getting their part on new bikes, a couple days of which are bigger volume than a year's worth of aftermarket. Assembly time is a big factor in adoption of press systems. And although one does hear of noises and assembly issues with press type frames, there's a hundred years of threading troubles too. The load, torque and precession around a BB is non-trivial and neither system is perfect. -- Andrew Muzi www.yellowjersey.org/ Open every day since 1 April, 1971 |
#6
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The Bottom Bracket Question
The load, torque and precession around a BB is non-trivial and neither system is perfect. ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ approach to first time (or second as it is) plastic BB cup install is with a long stick.... |
#7
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The Bottom Bracket Question
On Sunday, August 9, 2015 at 10:10:09 PM UTC+1, mark cleary wrote:
I know this has been hashed a zillion times but this group has personalities so I ask. All the press-fit stuff to mean is basically garbage for stability and ease of maintenance, much less the creaks. Are BSA threaded BB done and over with and do I just need to get use to, figuring out how to work on and be comfortable with press fit frames? I just see this as a way to cheapen the process. To just give a bit of background I repair and play guitars. I myself work and play some of the most classic jazz guitars around and I see the newer makers of jazz guitars cutting corners to make things easier. Just quite using inlay, layers of binding, and certain designs because frankly.............it makes it easier to build. Oh sure you drop and few ounces of weight but I made up for it by simply taking less stuff on the bike. Deacon Mark Cleary Epiphany Roman Catholic Church A proper pressfit can be a matter of engineering prestige, as in the days of the fitters and turners, the time-served men with the emory rag hanging from their rear pocket, the pride of craftsmen. You'd be amazed how much that could have been threaded if more cheaply made was instead a pressfit on an early Rolls-Royce or a Bentley from the W.O. days: those days of cheap unskilled labour it was the press-fitting that was expensive, because it was done slowly to perfection by highly skilled labour, not the threading, which could be done quickly by less skilled labour. There's much else on a modern bicycle that is despicably built down to a price. To name one example, the sickening obsession with making one size fit all in not scaling bicycle frame parts, for instance chain stay lengths to wheelbase. For an even more obvious example, supplying only one length of steerer tube, so that the cyclist needs to buy aftermarket parts to get a proper fit on his bike. Andre Jute |
#8
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The Bottom Bracket Question
On Monday, 10 August 2015 22:23:38 UTC+10, AMuzi wrote:
On 8/9/2015 4:09 PM, mark cleary wrote: I know this has been hashed a zillion times but this group has personalities so I ask. All the press-fit stuff to mean is basically garbage for stability and ease of maintenance, much less the creaks. Are BSA threaded BB done and over with and do I just need to get use to, figuring out how to work on and be comfortable with press fit frames? I just see this as a way to cheapen the process. To just give a bit of background I repair and play guitars. I myself work and play some of the most classic jazz guitars around and I see the newer makers of jazz guitars cutting corners to make things easier. Just quite using inlay, layers of binding, and certain designs because frankly.............it makes it easier to build. Oh sure you drop and few ounces of weight but I made up for it by simply taking less stuff on the bike. Deacon Mark Cleary Epiphany Roman Catholic Church It's complex, probably not nefarious. Yes carbon lends itself to a non-threaded format. Yes, there are plenty of builders still producing threaded frames. Both formats exist across an incredible range of quality and price. Although one might assume a non threaded frame is cheaper it's not at all clear that it's a significant expense. Then we have the crank makers, whose business is getting their part on new bikes, a couple days of which are bigger volume than a year's worth of aftermarket. Assembly time is a big factor in adoption of press systems. And although one does hear of noises and assembly issues with press type frames, there's a hundred years of threading troubles too. The load, torque and precession around a BB is non-trivial and neither system is perfect. -- Andrew Muzi www.yellowjersey.org/ Open every day since 1 April, 1971 Thing is, you can remove and replace threaded systems til the cows arrive back for milking: no significant damage if done correctly. Press fit: even if replaced correctly, by iteration about 3-6 you will reaching for the bearing retaining compound, due to the ripping of a very thin layer of bearing seat material off the ID of the frame. Pressfit on bikes = designer (engineer reluctantly following) admitting that their frames are throwaways. Not for this little black duck. |
#9
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The Bottom Bracket Question
On Tuesday, 11 August 2015 04:03:46 UTC+10, Andre Jute wrote:
On Sunday, August 9, 2015 at 10:10:09 PM UTC+1, mark cleary wrote: I know this has been hashed a zillion times but this group has personalities so I ask. All the press-fit stuff to mean is basically garbage for stability and ease of maintenance, much less the creaks. Are BSA threaded BB done and over with and do I just need to get use to, figuring out how to work on and be comfortable with press fit frames? I just see this as a way to cheapen the process. To just give a bit of background I repair and play guitars.. I myself work and play some of the most classic jazz guitars around and I see the newer makers of jazz guitars cutting corners to make things easier. Just quite using inlay, layers of binding, and certain designs because frankly.............it makes it easier to build. Oh sure you drop and few ounces of weight but I made up for it by simply taking less stuff on the bike. Deacon Mark Cleary Epiphany Roman Catholic Church A proper pressfit can be a matter of engineering prestige, as in the days of the fitters and turners, the time-served men with the emory rag hanging from their rear pocket, the pride of craftsmen. You'd be amazed how much that could have been threaded if more cheaply made was instead a pressfit on an early Rolls-Royce or a Bentley from the W.O. days: those days of cheap unskilled labour it was the press-fitting that was expensive, because it was done slowly to perfection by highly skilled labour, not the threading, which could be done quickly by less skilled labour. There's much else on a modern bicycle that is despicably built down to a price. To name one example, the sickening obsession with making one size fit all in not scaling bicycle frame parts, for instance chain stay lengths to wheelbase. For an even more obvious example, supplying only one length of steerer tube, so that the cyclist needs to buy aftermarket parts to get a proper fit on his bike. Andre Jute You do wank on a lot (meant in the kindest possible way). |
#10
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The Bottom Bracket Question
On Tue, 1 Sep 2015 20:04:36 -0700 (PDT), Veloaficionado
wrote: On Monday, 10 August 2015 22:23:38 UTC+10, AMuzi wrote: On 8/9/2015 4:09 PM, mark cleary wrote: I know this has been hashed a zillion times but this group has personalities so I ask. All the press-fit stuff to mean is basically garbage for stability and ease of maintenance, much less the creaks. Are BSA threaded BB done and over with and do I just need to get use to, figuring out how to work on and be comfortable with press fit frames? I just see this as a way to cheapen the process. To just give a bit of background I repair and play guitars. I myself work and play some of the most classic jazz guitars around and I see the newer makers of jazz guitars cutting corners to make things easier. Just quite using inlay, layers of binding, and certain designs because frankly.............it makes it easier to build. Oh sure you drop and few ounces of weight but I made up for it by simply taking less stuff on the bike. Deacon Mark Cleary Epiphany Roman Catholic Church It's complex, probably not nefarious. Yes carbon lends itself to a non-threaded format. Yes, there are plenty of builders still producing threaded frames. Both formats exist across an incredible range of quality and price. Although one might assume a non threaded frame is cheaper it's not at all clear that it's a significant expense. Then we have the crank makers, whose business is getting their part on new bikes, a couple days of which are bigger volume than a year's worth of aftermarket. Assembly time is a big factor in adoption of press systems. And although one does hear of noises and assembly issues with press type frames, there's a hundred years of threading troubles too. The load, torque and precession around a BB is non-trivial and neither system is perfect. -- Andrew Muzi www.yellowjersey.org/ Open every day since 1 April, 1971 Thing is, you can remove and replace threaded systems til the cows arrive back for milking: no significant damage if done correctly. Press fit: even if replaced correctly, by iteration about 3-6 you will reaching for the bearing retaining compound, due to the ripping of a very thin layer of bearing seat material off the ID of the frame. Pressfit on bikes = designer (engineer reluctantly following) admitting that their frames are throwaways. Not for this little black duck. But I do believe that bicycles have become very much a disposable item. If one is looking for just basic transportation one you just go to Amazon - $99.44 used. If you are feeling sporty you can get a plastic bike, in Singapore, for S$ 500 for the complete frame set. That is about U.S. 350. (No telling why USian's pay more :-) For those kind of prices who cares how long they last. -- cheers, John B. |
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