Characteristics and/or Technical Specifications for an IdealCentury Bike

Chalo Colina wrote:
Tom Sherman wrote:
Frank Krygowski wrote:
...
Assuming a person's not considering a faired recumbent...
Why make that assumption?

Same reason one would assume he's not considering a pedal-powered
airplane or blimp. That is, it would be expensive, fragile,
impractical, heavy, uncomfortable, ungainly to ride, inconvenient to
park, hard to store, inviting to vandalism and/or ridicule, and goofy-
looking.

Mine was less than $1500, has not had any mechanical problems that could
not be cured with minor adjustments, could be ridden in traffic, was
much more comfortable than an upright bicycle, easy to ride.

Heavy, yes.

Parking was not a problem in the places it would be safe to park an
expensive bicycle.

Storage - do not have so much other crap if that is a problem.

Ridicule - is your self confidence lacking?

Goofy looking - eye of the beholder:
http://www.ransbikes.com/Gallery/Archive/images/Sherman1.jpg.

Out of ten (10) points, Chalo is definitely wrong on five (5), correct
on one (1), possible correct on two (2) depending on the situation, and
the remaining two (2) are unimportant.

--
Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
"Localized intense suction such as tornadoes is created when temperature
differences are high enough between meeting air masses, and can impart
excessive energy onto a cyclist." - Randy Schlitter

On Dec 2, 8:36 pm, Tom "hope his Mama loves him" Sherman wrote:



Goofy looking - eye of the beholder:
http://www.ransbikes.com/Gallery/Archive/images/Sherman1.jpg.


Hard to say which is uglier: the "bicycle" pictured, or the pencil-
necked nerd sitting on it! :-(

Tom Sherman wrote:

Chalo Colina wrote:

Tom Sherman wrote:

Frank Krygowski wrote:
...
Assuming a person's not considering a faired recumbent...

Why make that assumption?

Same reason one would assume he's not considering a pedal-powered
airplane or blimp. That is, it would be expensive, fragile,
impractical, heavy, uncomfortable, ungainly to ride, inconvenient to
park, hard to store, inviting to vandalism and/or ridicule, and goofy-
looking.

Mine was less than $1500,

I'm guessing that you could have gotten an equal or better normal bike
for less than 1/3 that at the time.

has not had any mechanical problems that could
not be cured with minor adjustments,

I meant fragile as in "can't lock the thing to a parking sign or let
it blow over in the wind without fuxoring the plastic bubble". And it
_is_ fragile in that way.

could be ridden in traffic,

Not the only criterion for practicality for most of us. A Wal-Schwinn
Stingray chopper can be ridden in traffic, but it's not a practical
ride. And it's a bike you don't even have to wear like a sandwich
board.

was much more comfortable than an upright bicycle,

You stay cool in the summer under that plastic wrap, mister? I
wouldn't. Half of being comfortable on a bike is being able to shed
heat as necessary.

easy to ride.

I'm guessing 9+ out of 10 would agree with my assessment of "ungainly
to ride" even if they also thought it was easy.

Heavy, yes.

Parking was not a problem in the places it would be safe to park an
expensive bicycle.

Like a bike rack? I don't think so. I have bikes up to $4k value and
I rack all of them. Heck, I find my 29er and my bike with rack-
mounted boxes inconvenient to park, and they're a piece of cake
compared to your parade float.

Storage - do not have so much other crap if that is a problem.

Carry that thing up a couple or flights and stash it in your office,
will you? If you have a garage or a roll-in shed, I'm sure it's
fine. But that's like saying a car is easy to store. I store some of
my bikes aboard my school bus, which would be much less feasible for a
faired 'bent. You could have a 5000 square foot loft with only a dorm
room's worth of stuff in it, but if you need to use the freight
elevator to bring your bike in, then it's still a pain to store the
thing.

Ridicule - is your self confidence lacking?

No, I already get plenty of attention just for being bigger than
Batman and Robin put together. But who wants to leave the house
riding the equivalent of a full-body balloon hat? I also said
"vulnerable to vandalism", which has little to do with self-
confidence. The conspicuousness of a 'bent in its own blister pack
means that it attracts all kinds of attention, welcome and unwelcome.
A regular bike, not so much.

Goofy looking - eye of the beholder:
http://www.ransbikes.com/Gallery/Archive/images/Sherman1.jpg.

I withhold comment. I ride some silly-looking bikes myself.

Chalo

Ozark Bicycle wrote:
On Dec 2, 8:36 pm, Tom "hope his Mama loves him" Sherman wrote:


Goofy looking - eye of the beholder:
http://www.ransbikes.com/Gallery/Archive/images/Sherman1.jpg.


Hard to say which is uglier: the "bicycle" pictured, or the pencil-
necked nerd sitting on it! :-(

Gee Ozark, your personal inadequacy issues show through your posts.

--
Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
"Localized intense suction such as tornadoes is created when temperature
differences are high enough between meeting air masses, and can impart
excessive energy onto a cyclist." - Randy Schlitter

Chalo Colina wrote:
Tom Sherman wrote:
Chalo Colina wrote:
Tom Sherman wrote:
Frank Krygowski wrote:
...
Assuming a person's not considering a faired recumbent...
Why make that assumption?

Same reason one would assume he's not considering a pedal-powered
airplane or blimp. That is, it would be expensive, fragile,
impractical, heavy, uncomfortable, ungainly to ride, inconvenient to
park, hard to store, inviting to vandalism and/or ridicule, and goofy-
looking.
Mine was less than $1500,

I'm guessing that you could have gotten an equal or better normal bike
for less than 1/3 that at the time.

But faster over the conditions I ride? I think not.

has not had any mechanical problems that could
not be cured with minor adjustments,

I meant fragile as in "can't lock the thing to a parking sign or let
it blow over in the wind without fuxoring the plastic bubble". And it
_is_ fragile in that way.

Those are not issues for an "Ideal Century Bike".

could be ridden in traffic,

Not the only criterion for practicality for most of us. A Wal-Schwinn
Stingray chopper can be ridden in traffic, but it's not a practical
ride. And it's a bike you don't even have to wear like a sandwich
board.

Why are you judging by practicality criteria? Heck, a used trades
bicycles would be better than either a faired recumbent or drop bar road
bike, but it is not something anyone sensible would choose for an "Ideal
Century Bike".

was much more comfortable than an upright bicycle,

You stay cool in the summer under that plastic wrap, mister? I
wouldn't. Half of being comfortable on a bike is being able to shed
heat as necessary.

The sun screening effect of the FABRIC body sock more than compensates
for the decreased ventilation. I rode double metric centuries in the
summer in Illinois with no problems, and I do not deal with heat well.

easy to ride.

I'm guessing 9+ out of 10 would agree with my assessment of "ungainly
to ride" even if they also thought it was easy.

Not an issue of the open road, where most centuries are ridden.

Heavy, yes.

Parking was not a problem in the places it would be safe to park an
expensive bicycle.

Like a bike rack? I don't think so. I have bikes up to $4k value and
I rack all of them. Heck, I find my 29er and my bike with rack-
mounted boxes inconvenient to park, and they're a piece of cake
compared to your parade float.

How many people park in bicycle racks on centuries and club rides? I
have done many of both, without ever needing to use a bicycle parking rack.

Storage - do not have so much other crap if that is a problem.

Carry that thing up a couple or flights and stash it in your office,
will you? If you have a garage or a roll-in shed, I'm sure it's
fine. But that's like saying a car is easy to store. I store some of
my bikes aboard my school bus, which would be much less feasible for a
faired 'bent. You could have a 5000 square foot loft with only a dorm
room's worth of stuff in it, but if you need to use the freight
elevator to bring your bike in, then it's still a pain to store the
thing.

I used to carry said faired bicycle up four flights of stairs to my
apartment every time I rode it without any problems.

Again, why would an "Ideal Century Bike" need to be stored in an office?

Ridicule - is your self confidence lacking?

No, I already get plenty of attention just for being bigger than
Batman and Robin put together. But who wants to leave the house
riding the equivalent of a full-body balloon hat? I also said
"vulnerable to vandalism", which has little to do with self-
confidence. The conspicuousness of a 'bent in its own blister pack
means that it attracts all kinds of attention, welcome and unwelcome.
A regular bike, not so much.

Vandalism on century and club rides - not a problem I am aware of,
upright or recumbent. Yeah, there is unwelcome nasty comments from some
wannabe racers (the really good upright riders do not have the need to
denigrate others, since they are not unsuccessful racers), but those are
easily ignored by riding away from them.

Goofy looking - eye of the beholder:
http://www.ransbikes.com/Gallery/Archive/images/Sherman1.jpg.

I withhold comment. I ride some silly-looking bikes myself.

I thought that was the point of "Dead Baby Bikes"?

--
Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
"Localized intense suction such as tornadoes is created when temperature
differences are high enough between meeting air masses, and can impart
excessive energy onto a cyclist." - Randy Schlitter

On Sun, 2 Dec 2007 20:09:47 -0800 (PST), Chalo
wrote:

I store some of my bikes aboard my school bus . . .

Dear Chalo,

What could be more sensible than iwning a school bus to store and
transport bicycles?

However, posters who lead deprived lives (or are simply green with
envy) may wish to hear a few more details and perhaps even see some
pictures.

Cheers,

Carl Fogel

Carl Fogel wrote:

Chalo wrote:

I store some of my bikes aboard my school bus . . .

Dear Chalo,

What could be more sensible than owning a school bus to store and
transport bicycles?

"Sensible" is not the word I'd use for owning a school bus, especially
the comical-looking one I have. But it is very useful, economical in
its way, and festive.

However, posters who lead deprived lives (or are simply green with
envy) may wish to hear a few more details and perhaps even see some
pictures.

My bus is of this model, and I bought it in more or less the condition
you see he

http://busexplorer.com/PHP/MidPage.php?id=1943

Mine has the ever so slightly more stylish round headlights.

I had been lightly hassling my lovely wife to get a bus for doing her
musical tours. [Photos, audio samples and more at http://datribean.com
] Since she needs to bring along more equipment than conveniently
fits in her sedan, and since the extra fuel cost of a bus can be
partially offset by the reduced cost of lodging, I reckoned that a
smallish bus would make for comfortable travel for her and up to about
three bandmates. She was relatively ambivalent about it until we
decided to relocate form Seattle to Austin, and we calculated that it
would cost about the same to rent a U-Haul or buy a used school bus.

After a short but focused search, we found our bus, a 24 foot 1988
diesel GMC/Blue Bird Mini Bird at Harlow's Bus Sales of Auburn, WA.
It had been used as a special needs bus for the school district in
Bothell, WA. As such, it was fitted with only six bench seats but it
bore several mounting rails for wheelchairs. I appreciated the
relatively short wheelbase and eight-foot-wide body; my wife liked the
cheerful mottled green floor covering. We both liked the lower than
normal floor which contributed to a higher ceiling than most school
buses-- it's over 6'4" at the center aisle. The engine and
transmission were far newer than the rest of the bus. It had a
hydraulic wheelchair lift just aft of the regular bus door (I was
indifferent to this at first, but it has come in handy many times).
Best of all, it cost less than $2000.

Datri observed that other drivers were more accommodating on the road
to an apparent school bus than could otherwise be explained, so she
opted to retain the bus's color sceme. In order to meet the
requirements of the law, I masked and covered the school district
markings with "National School Bus Yellow" spray paint, removed the
flip-out STOP sign, and blacked out the lenses of the flashing
lights.

I removed all the bench seats and the driver's seat and replaced them
with just two tilt & swivel captain's chairs from a Nissan Quest
minivan. (With most of the seats gone, it was easy and relatively
cheap to register the bus as a household truck.) The passenger seat
was placed just behind the driver's seat, and behind that I built a
queen sized bed platform tall enough to accommodate a double layer of
moving boxes underneath. I replaced some of the large screws
retaining the window frames with forged eyebolts for tying down
cargo. Lastly, I lined most of the rear half of the bus with 2"
styrofoam board to keep the bus and its contents from gnawing on each
other.

In first went my Suzuki GSX1100G motorcycle, strapped firmly to one
side of the tail overhang. Next was my honey's Yamaha upright piano
on the other side. Forty boxes went under the bed, and everything
else packed tightly into the remaining spaces, with priority given to
bins of metal bars and other heavy objects in the spots nearest the
front of the bus (for acceptable weight distribution).

Only two bicycles made it onto the first bus ride out of Seattle (one
for me and one for my wife). The other ~16 bikes and all my loose
wheels and tires I was lucky to stash with a generous friend until I
could make it back from Austin to pick them up. Four months later, my
honey did a West Coast tour that brought us and our bus back to pick
up the bikes. I left the bus in its previous cargo/sleeper
configuration so we could use it as a camper but still fit in all the
bikes for the return trip.

The night we got back to Austin with the load of bikes, with the bus
sitting at the curb in front of my house, some neighborhood kid
decided to work out his resentment towards school by shooting out four
of my bus's side windows with a BB gun. Later, I replaced them with
high impact acrylic panes-- mostly because the material was easy for
me to cut and therefore much cheaper than glass panes for my
purposes.

Since then, we've used the bus for hauling large things and for a
couple more concert tours and music festivals. In its camper
configuration, it functioned for several weeks as an outlying bedroom
for one of my broke friends when he returned to the USA after a couple
of years in Eastern Europe. The remainder of the time it has been
sitting in my back driveway, it has served as a secure, dry shed for
storing a portion of my tribe of bikes.

I highly recommend a retired school bus for hauling, storage and
camping if you have the kind of premises, or the kind of neighbors,
that make it feasible to keep one at home. They don't cost much-- I
saw asking prices from $1500 to $3500 in Washington state while I was
looking, with specimens based on van chassis costing more than bigger
ones on truck chassis. Proximity to Mexico might inflate a bus's
market value. Used school buses are better maintained than most cast-
off vehicles, and they seem to be disposed of according to a schedule
rather than because they have already become a maintenance
liability.

For folks who can't keep a bus at home, it's a much less attractive
proposition. Paying for a remote parking space can get pretty
expensive and almost certainly reduces the versatility of the bus as
flexible storage and ready transportation. Another significant
tradeoff of any bus is that while the interior space is large, the
doors are only so big-- the regular passenger door is about two feet
wide and six feet high (with a constricted turn right behind it),
while the rear escape door is about three feet wide and four and a
half feet high. That limits the sorts of things that can be loaded
and unloaded, and it somewhat limits the range of camping appointments
(bunks, cabinets, etc.) that can be temporarily removed without
disassembling them first.

Keep on truckin',

Chalo

On Sun, 2 Dec 2007 23:04:11 -0800 (PST), Chalo
wrote:

Carl Fogel wrote:

Chalo wrote:

I store some of my bikes aboard my school bus . . .

Dear Chalo,

What could be more sensible than owning a school bus to store and
transport bicycles?

"Sensible" is not the word I'd use for owning a school bus, especially
the comical-looking one I have. But it is very useful, economical in
its way, and festive.

However, posters who lead deprived lives (or are simply green with
envy) may wish to hear a few more details and perhaps even see some
pictures.

My bus is of this model, and I bought it in more or less the condition
you see he

http://busexplorer.com/PHP/MidPage.php?id=1943

Mine has the ever so slightly more stylish round headlights.

I had been lightly hassling my lovely wife to get a bus for doing her
musical tours. [Photos, audio samples and more at http://datribean.com
] Since she needs to bring along more equipment than conveniently
fits in her sedan, and since the extra fuel cost of a bus can be
partially offset by the reduced cost of lodging, I reckoned that a
smallish bus would make for comfortable travel for her and up to about
three bandmates. She was relatively ambivalent about it until we
decided to relocate form Seattle to Austin, and we calculated that it
would cost about the same to rent a U-Haul or buy a used school bus.

After a short but focused search, we found our bus, a 24 foot 1988
diesel GMC/Blue Bird Mini Bird at Harlow's Bus Sales of Auburn, WA.
It had been used as a special needs bus for the school district in
Bothell, WA. As such, it was fitted with only six bench seats but it
bore several mounting rails for wheelchairs. I appreciated the
relatively short wheelbase and eight-foot-wide body; my wife liked the
cheerful mottled green floor covering. We both liked the lower than
normal floor which contributed to a higher ceiling than most school
buses-- it's over 6'4" at the center aisle. The engine and
transmission were far newer than the rest of the bus. It had a
hydraulic wheelchair lift just aft of the regular bus door (I was
indifferent to this at first, but it has come in handy many times).
Best of all, it cost less than $2000.

Datri observed that other drivers were more accommodating on the road
to an apparent school bus than could otherwise be explained, so she
opted to retain the bus's color sceme. In order to meet the
requirements of the law, I masked and covered the school district
markings with "National School Bus Yellow" spray paint, removed the
flip-out STOP sign, and blacked out the lenses of the flashing
lights.

I removed all the bench seats and the driver's seat and replaced them
with just two tilt & swivel captain's chairs from a Nissan Quest
minivan. (With most of the seats gone, it was easy and relatively
cheap to register the bus as a household truck.) The passenger seat
was placed just behind the driver's seat, and behind that I built a
queen sized bed platform tall enough to accommodate a double layer of
moving boxes underneath. I replaced some of the large screws
retaining the window frames with forged eyebolts for tying down
cargo. Lastly, I lined most of the rear half of the bus with 2"
styrofoam board to keep the bus and its contents from gnawing on each
other.

In first went my Suzuki GSX1100G motorcycle, strapped firmly to one
side of the tail overhang. Next was my honey's Yamaha upright piano
on the other side. Forty boxes went under the bed, and everything
else packed tightly into the remaining spaces, with priority given to
bins of metal bars and other heavy objects in the spots nearest the
front of the bus (for acceptable weight distribution).

Only two bicycles made it onto the first bus ride out of Seattle (one
for me and one for my wife). The other ~16 bikes and all my loose
wheels and tires I was lucky to stash with a generous friend until I
could make it back from Austin to pick them up. Four months later, my
honey did a West Coast tour that brought us and our bus back to pick
up the bikes. I left the bus in its previous cargo/sleeper
configuration so we could use it as a camper but still fit in all the
bikes for the return trip.

The night we got back to Austin with the load of bikes, with the bus
sitting at the curb in front of my house, some neighborhood kid
decided to work out his resentment towards school by shooting out four
of my bus's side windows with a BB gun. Later, I replaced them with
high impact acrylic panes-- mostly because the material was easy for
me to cut and therefore much cheaper than glass panes for my
purposes.

Since then, we've used the bus for hauling large things and for a
couple more concert tours and music festivals. In its camper
configuration, it functioned for several weeks as an outlying bedroom
for one of my broke friends when he returned to the USA after a couple
of years in Eastern Europe. The remainder of the time it has been
sitting in my back driveway, it has served as a secure, dry shed for
storing a portion of my tribe of bikes.

I highly recommend a retired school bus for hauling, storage and
camping if you have the kind of premises, or the kind of neighbors,
that make it feasible to keep one at home. They don't cost much-- I
saw asking prices from $1500 to $3500 in Washington state while I was
looking, with specimens based on van chassis costing more than bigger
ones on truck chassis. Proximity to Mexico might inflate a bus's
market value. Used school buses are better maintained than most cast-
off vehicles, and they seem to be disposed of according to a schedule
rather than because they have already become a maintenance
liability.

For folks who can't keep a bus at home, it's a much less attractive
proposition. Paying for a remote parking space can get pretty
expensive and almost certainly reduces the versatility of the bus as
flexible storage and ready transportation. Another significant
tradeoff of any bus is that while the interior space is large, the
doors are only so big-- the regular passenger door is about two feet
wide and six feet high (with a constricted turn right behind it),
while the rear escape door is about three feet wide and four and a
half feet high. That limits the sorts of things that can be loaded
and unloaded, and it somewhat limits the range of camping appointments
(bunks, cabinets, etc.) that can be temporarily removed without
disassembling them first.

Keep on truckin',

Chalo

Dear Chalo,

I have absolutely no use for such a bus and nowhere to park it.

I plan to send several friends a link to your post, so that they can
gnash their teeth in envy, too.

Cheers,

Carl Fogel

On 2007-12-03, Tom Sherman wrote:
[...]
Goofy looking - eye of the beholder:
http://www.ransbikes.com/Gallery/Archive/images/Sherman1.jpg.

Is that Batman tent thing an aerodynamic windshield, or just something
to keep the rain off?

If the former, how effective is it? It looks like it might flap around a
bit in the wind possibly creating drag.

Ben C??? wrote:
On 2007-12-03, Tom Sherman wrote:
[...]
Goofy looking - eye of the beholder:
http://www.ransbikes.com/Gallery/Archive/images/Sherman1.jpg.

Is that Batman tent thing an aerodynamic windshield, or just something
to keep the rain off?

The fabric is breathable, not waterproof. That said, the front fairing
and fenders keeps the rider relatively dry from the knees to the
shoulders, even in a heavy downpour.

If the former, how effective is it? It looks like it might flap around a
bit in the wind possibly creating drag.

Ever try drafting a long wheelbase recumbent with a bodysock? The lack
of much draft compared to the same bike without the sock indicates
considerable improvement.

There were a couple of riders who could easily drop me when I rode an
un-faired bicycle, but I could match their pace with the sock on the bike.

--
Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
"Localized intense suction such as tornadoes is created when temperature
differences are high enough between meeting air masses, and can impart
excessive energy onto a cyclist." - Randy Schlitter