should i or shouldn't i...

In article ,
andy gee wrote:
"Rich Clark" wrote in
:

I run into this on a frequent basis. I don't want people holding doors
for me. They don't know where to stand, they get in the way, I can't
get through the door with my bike without bumping them or bumping
myself or my bike in an effort not to bump them. It's awkward.

On the other hand, I know how to go through doors with my bike. I know
how to do it effortlessly and without help.

So when someone tries to hold a door for me I just say "thanks, but
it'll be easier if you just go ahead."


Here in New York, apartment buildings have _double_ doors. It's tough
to get to the inner door before the outer door thwacks the rear wheel.
Tough, but doable. So I can do it myself, but I appreciate anyone who
holds the door. Especially when I'm coming in with the 'bent.


Airlock-style doors[1] get annoyingly complicated anytime you have to
get anything more than a small group of unladen people going in the same
direction through them. Usually it's simplest to just let anybody who's
carrying something or going the other way clear the airlock part before
you enter it (holding the outer door for them often helps if you're on
the outside side and can do that without getting in their way), but any
general rule you try to use will have cases where it makes things worse
instead of better.

The building I live in has an airlock that's just deep enough to get the
bike fully inside without turning it sideways, so I can just bring the
bike inside the airlock and let the outer door close while I'm fiddling
with the key to open the inner (locked) door. This is Rather Convenient,
as it makes it a lot easier to get through than it would be if I had to
get it through both doors at once or worry about getting it in the way
of the outer door closing.
(Going out is rather easier; just give the door a good push and I'm
through the next one before it closes enough to potentially be a problem.)

It's also wide enough for somebody to stand behind the door (either one)
and hold it, which is quite helpful when you're trying to get a bike
(or anything else) in or out, because you have a clear path through
the doorway (nobody in the way) and you don't need to worry about the
door yourself.
*
_/ _
| | (person at * holding door)
|* |
|_/ _|
It's rare that anybody actually does this, though. Usually they'll
stand *inside* the door you're trying to go through and try to hold it
open from the
_/ _
| * |
| | (person at * holding door)
|_/ _|
*
This not only puts them in the doorway (and in your way), but it's also
harder to hold the door open this way, and it usually results in the
door being not quite as wide open. This has an annoying tendency to
make everybody's life harder instead of easier.

So the thing to do is hold the door from the *outside* whenever
positioning yourself to do so doesn't make life harder. If you're going
out and behind somebody (also going out) who's carrying something,
you can at least hold the door from behind them and not make things
worse by getting in their way, but it doesn't help all that much either.
(And, when you're the one carrying something, be ready to say "Thanks,
but it's easier if I get it myself".)



My point? I thought it was around here somewhere... yeah, that's it.
It's quite possible that the OP was making it harder for the other person
in a nonobvious way. It's also possible that the other person was so
used to people making it harder while trying to help that he declined
the assistance out of reflex. It's also possible that he was just being
oversensitive. And if you use your common sense and pay attention to
the nonobvious things (some of which I've pointed out above), you can
at least avoid the first of those next time.


dave

[1] Two doors (or two sets of double doors) arranged so that you have
to go through both of them to get in or out. Almost universally
both opening toward the outside (I think this is a fire code thing
- it's easier to get out in a hurry if you can open the doors by
pushing them).
("Double doors" is ambiguous for this - it can mean either two
single doors arranged airlock-style:

_/ _
| |
| |
|_/ _|

or two doors side-by-side:

__/ \__

while "airlock-style", while perhaps not a commonly used term,
is readily understood by most people and rather less ambiguous.)

--
Dave Vandervies
What should such a standard mandate for systems which don't use
directories, such as OS390? --Richard Heathfield and
A well-engineered fake. Chris Dollin in comp.lang.c

In article ,
Ravi wrote:
Hi,
ok, i was heading to an exit door. At the same time a cyclist
pushing his bike also was approaching for the same door, i walked a
little bit faster and reached the door quickly and held the door open
for the cyclist.

Which side of the door were you on? (It makes a difference. You can't
hold a door open from inside without blocking it. Go through, then hold
it open standing behind it on the outside. If there's not room behind
the door to stand behind it while it's wide open, Just Don't Bother.)

Instead, the cyclist insisted on i go thru the door
first, after two times going back and forth, i had to go thru the door
and he exited after me.

Easy way to avoid this sort of thing (in general, not just going through
doors with a bike): Never defer twice. If you let somebody else
go and they say "no, you go first", assume they have a good reason,
and you go first. (Unless you both try to defer at the same time,
then the easiest way to resolve it is to see who tries again first.
If you get another collision, offer to flip a coin.)


(As noted by several people already, often the offered assistance
actually makes it harder, which is a rather better reason for turning
it down than being offended at somebody thinking you need assistance.)


I am sure so many of you have been in such situations, how do you react?

If it's me who offered the assistance? If they say go ahead, I go ahead.

If I'm the one being offered assistance? "Thanks, but it's easier if
I get it myself", and expect them to take the cue and go ahead. If I'm
in a friendly mood, I may point out that standing somewhere else while
holding the door makes it easy, which makes everything go more smoothly
next time they try to help somebody getting a bike in or out.


may be, i should read some book on social effects of cycling

I think in this case it's not really cycling-related, but more "getting
unwieldy stuff through doors".


dave

--
Dave Vandervies
What should such a standard mandate for systems which don't use
directories, such as OS390? --Richard Heathfield and
A well-engineered fake. Chris Dollin in comp.lang.c

(Dave Vandervies) writes:

Airlock-style doors[1] get annoyingly complicated anytime you have to
get anything more than a small group of unladen people going in the same
direction through them.

In my experience these kinds of doors often have automatic
opening buttons, intended for use by wheelchair users. When I
have my bike with me, I use them. They're a great help.
--
Ben Pfaff
email:
web: http://benpfaff.org

It occurs to me that if I had to go through an awkward door very often, I
would add a small rubber doorstop to my cycling kit.

On 6 Nov 2005 21:12:08 -0800, "
wrote:

Once, when going up the hill unaccompanied I had someone so insistent
about helping me that I had to lock my wheels to keep her from being
able to push.

This is why you need a cellphone that can dial 911 in case of assaults
like that.

Jasper

Jasper Janssen wrote:
On 6 Nov 2005 21:12:08 -0800, "
wrote:

Once, when going up the hill unaccompanied I had someone so insistent
about helping me that I had to lock my wheels to keep her from being
able to push.

This is why you need a cellphone that can dial 911 in case of assaults
like that.

OK, that was funny. LOL even...

Jeff Starr wrote:
After following this thread through 15 posts, I've come to the
conclusion that we can complicate just about anything.

It used to be really simple. I was raised to be courteous to people.
All people, male and female, handicapped or able-bodied. I still hold
doors for people, and when someone holds the door for me, I accept it
and say thank you.

I am reminded of a book I read in my youth. When someone made an offer
such as a meal or a place to stay for the night, the receiver would say
something like "your offer of a gift honors me." When the gift was
accepted, the giver would say something like "by accepting the gift,
you bring me honor."

I think the author had it right. By accepting a small token of
courtesy, both the giver and receiver get something. Perhaps it is just
a good vibe for the rest of the day.

The crush of humanity is, perhaps, the biggest reason I dislike big
cities. There are just too many people for common courtesy to be
common. Holding the door for one becomes holding the door for a
hundred.

But when the scale is right, courtesy prevails, and we are all better
for it - whether we give or receive.

-Buck

Ravi wrote:
one more story for you: i witnessed even recently. Sometimes i ride a
train/trolley with my bike. Once inside the train/trolley, you gotto
lift the bike up and hang it on one wheel. Once, i had just entered and
saw this happening: one lady was trying to lift a heavy mtn bike and was
struggling to get the front wheel hooked - (its kinda tricky to lift the
bike and hook the front wheel) and she is probably new to it or haven't
mastered the art of doing it. One gentleman closer to her offered to
help, but she declined it vehemently and saying "I am an independant
woman!" and then he backed off and she couldn't hang the bike, continued
to hold the bike on the floor of the train/troller until her stop.

If my offer to help in that situation were rebuffed in that manner I'm
afraid I wouldn't back off silently. Instead I'd probably tell her,
"You're welcome to be as independent as you wish but you're blocking
the aisle. Either hang the bike or allow someone to hang it for you."

Regards,
Bob Hunt