Hazards of night cycling

At the risk of sounding obsessed with safety, I will describe an incident
this evening while riding downhill on a road I've only been on once before.
Please note; I'd rather this didn't turn into a discussion about me or my
obsessions, rather I'd prefer it if other night riders shared their tales of
near disaster and disaster not averted. This would be in the interest of
educating the night riding public in avoiding problems.

It was dark, clear night and I was using my Cateye EL 300 headlight with new
batteries. I was going downhill on the shoulder of a well maintened road.
Cars were few. All of a sudden I noticed something just ahead. It looked
like white rocks. I thought about ten rocks, each a half inch to an inch in
diameter. It was too late to do anything else. I ran right into them and to
my surprise I found my front wheel on my mountain bike sliding sideways
about six inches. Just as I was about to go down, I cleared the rocks. A
little shaken, I made note of a house with lights on either side of the
garage door lit so that I might drive back and look the thing over in better
light. The rider passing before me hadn't noticed anything. I noticed a
colorful barrel marking some recent work in the middle of the shoulder not
too much further along. There I swerved around the barrel into the traffic
lanes rather than hit the barrel.

I drove back and found the garage and it's lights. Drove along slowly and
found.... a graveled entrance to... who knows and who cares? The gravel
covered the whole shoulder for about the width of a driveway.

How is it that I didn't spot this sooner? Why didn't the previous rider have
trouble with this? My guess is a car had been coming and I kept my head down
to avoid being blinded. This cuts down my visibility to about 25 feet. Going
downhill at maybe 18 or 20mph that doesn't leave a lot of time to do evasive
manuvers, but also if the oncoming car was timed just right, he might have
gone by just before I got to the gravel when I was adjusting to my low light
LED.

Conclusion: I'm going to blame my crappy headlight. It's only good for roads
on which there are no cars and no gravel patches or surprises like pot holes
and large dead animals. Shoulders have a lot of crap on them. Much easier to
see in the day. I may have to get a much brighter light or face the effects
of crash at 20 mph which can break bones or get your run over.

The industry, if it had any scruples, shouldn't even sell a weak light. It
gives false confidence. It has surprising weaknesses that can lead to
disaster.

Have you had a near disaster while riding at night? Post your experience and
conclusion.

Buy the equipment you need for safe
night bike riding. The one time I had
to do some hospital time from a day time
bike crash cost me $1000, and the
insurance company $5000 more. So that's
the benchmark I use. So if you compare
it to that, batteries and lights and
some reflector gear is really quite
cheap. Buy a good handlebar light, a
helmet mounted light and you are
business. The el-300 doesn't cut it,
the el-500 is the best of the cheap
cateye lights. The helmet mounted
princeton tec EOS is pretty good for
road, and you point the beam right in
front, when blinded by car high beams.
Put a couple good rear lights on the
back, and put some ankle reflectors on,
and you'll be seen by cars. Most rear
lights, I've seen do a pretty good job,
even the cheap ones. But I use
rechargeable batteries in them, to make
them as bright as possible. The best
rear light you can buy is naturally
useless, with dead or dying batteries.
I prefer night riding to day riding, but
you have to have the right stuff.

On Sep 25, 8:05 am, "Greens" wrote:
At the risk of sounding obsessed with safety, I will describe an incident
this evening while riding downhill on a road I've only been on once before.
Please note; I'd rather this didn't turn into a discussion about me or my
obsessions, rather I'd prefer it if other night riders shared their tales of
near disaster and disaster not averted. This would be in the interest of
educating the night riding public in avoiding problems.

It was dark, clear night and I was using my Cateye EL 300 headlight with new
batteries. I was going downhill on the shoulder of a well maintened road.
Cars were few. All of a sudden I noticed something just ahead. It looked
like white rocks. I thought about ten rocks, each a half inch to an inch in
diameter. It was too late to do anything else. I ran right into them and to
my surprise I found my front wheel on my mountain bike sliding sideways
about six inches. Just as I was about to go down, I cleared the rocks. A
little shaken, I made note of a house with lights on either side of the
garage door lit so that I might drive back and look the thing over in better
light. The rider passing before me hadn't noticed anything. I noticed a
colorful barrel marking some recent work in the middle of the shoulder not
too much further along. There I swerved around the barrel into the traffic
lanes rather than hit the barrel.

I drove back and found the garage and it's lights. Drove along slowly and
found.... a graveled entrance to... who knows and who cares? The gravel
covered the whole shoulder for about the width of a driveway.

How is it that I didn't spot this sooner? Why didn't the previous rider have
trouble with this? My guess is a car had been coming and I kept my head down
to avoid being blinded. This cuts down my visibility to about 25 feet. Going
downhill at maybe 18 or 20mph that doesn't leave a lot of time to do evasive
manuvers, but also if the oncoming car was timed just right, he might have
gone by just before I got to the gravel when I was adjusting to my low light
LED.

Conclusion: I'm going to blame my crappy headlight. It's only good for roads
on which there are no cars and no gravel patches or surprises like pot holes
and large dead animals. Shoulders have a lot of crap on them. Much easier to
see in the day. I may have to get a much brighter light or face the effects
of crash at 20 mph which can break bones or get your run over.

The industry, if it had any scruples, shouldn't even sell a weak light. It
gives false confidence. It has surprising weaknesses that can lead to
disaster.

Have you had a near disaster while riding at night? Post your experience and
conclusion.

When I ride at night it is usually on my MTB with a helmet mounted
Silva halogen made for skiing. I like helmet mounted because I can see
what I'm looking at. I can also use it to blind oncoming cars should I
be on a stretch of road so I KNOW they saw me. But it does give some
tunnel vision, and I nearly punctured my varicose veins in my calf on
a sharp branch I didn't see as it fell outside the tunnel. That would
have been bad. Moral of the story: take it easy when you can't see!

Joseph

On Sep 25, 3:05 pm, "Greens" wrote:
At the risk of sounding obsessed with safety, I will describe an incident
this evening while riding downhill on a road I've only been on once before.
Please note; I'd rather this didn't turn into a discussion about me or my
obsessions, rather I'd prefer it if other night riders shared their tales of
near disaster and disaster not averted. This would be in the interest of
educating the night riding public in avoiding problems.

It was dark, clear night and I was using my Cateye EL 300 headlight with new
batteries. I was going downhill on the shoulder of a well maintened road.
Cars were few. All of a sudden I noticed something just ahead. It looked
like white rocks. I thought about ten rocks, each a half inch to an inch in
diameter. It was too late to do anything else. I ran right into them and to
my surprise I found my front wheel on my mountain bike sliding sideways
about six inches. Just as I was about to go down, I cleared the rocks. A
little shaken, I made note of a house with lights on either side of the
garage door lit so that I might drive back and look the thing over in better
light. The rider passing before me hadn't noticed anything. I noticed a
colorful barrel marking some recent work in the middle of the shoulder not
too much further along. There I swerved around the barrel into the traffic
lanes rather than hit the barrel.

I drove back and found the garage and it's lights. Drove along slowly and
found.... a graveled entrance to... who knows and who cares? The gravel
covered the whole shoulder for about the width of a driveway.

How is it that I didn't spot this sooner? Why didn't the previous rider have
trouble with this? My guess is a car had been coming and I kept my head down
to avoid being blinded. This cuts down my visibility to about 25 feet. Going
downhill at maybe 18 or 20mph that doesn't leave a lot of time to do evasive
manuvers, but also if the oncoming car was timed just right, he might have
gone by just before I got to the gravel when I was adjusting to my low light
LED.

Conclusion: I'm going to blame my crappy headlight. It's only good for roads
on which there are no cars and no gravel patches or surprises like pot holes
and large dead animals. Shoulders have a lot of crap on them. Much easier to
see in the day. I may have to get a much brighter light or face the effects
of crash at 20 mph which can break bones or get your run over.

The industry, if it had any scruples, shouldn't even sell a weak light. It
gives false confidence. It has surprising weaknesses that can lead to
disaster.

Have you had a near disaster while riding at night? Post your experience and
conclusion.

After buying an EL300, I bought another one the next day. Two mounted
on the bar let you focus one close and another just beyond, which
helps considerably. I've seen a dynamo powered version of the EL300
which might be better since it's mounted close to the ground. That
would reduce the distance the light needs to travel to illuminate road
debris.

Cateye's 1W LEDs are about as bright as 2 EL300s, so a couple 1Ws make
a good upgrade if you don't want to spend much money. Other people
have mentioned on this group non-cycling alternatives that are much
brighter than what Cateye makes (whatever happened to the Stadium3
HID?).

Greens wrote:
At the risk of sounding obsessed with safety, I will describe an incident
this evening while riding downhill on a road I've only been on once before.
Please note; I'd rather this didn't turn into a discussion about me or my
obsessions, rather I'd prefer it if other night riders shared their tales of
near disaster and disaster not averted. This would be in the interest of
educating the night riding public in avoiding problems.

It was dark, clear night and I was using my Cateye EL 300 headlight with new
batteries. I was going downhill on the shoulder of a well maintened road.
Cars were few. All of a sudden I noticed something just ahead. It looked
like white rocks. I thought about ten rocks, each a half inch to an inch in
diameter. It was too late to do anything else. I ran right into them and to
my surprise I found my front wheel on my mountain bike sliding sideways
about six inches. Just as I was about to go down, I cleared the rocks. A
little shaken, I made note of a house with lights on either side of the
garage door lit so that I might drive back and look the thing over in better
light. The rider passing before me hadn't noticed anything. I noticed a
colorful barrel marking some recent work in the middle of the shoulder not
too much further along. There I swerved around the barrel into the traffic
lanes rather than hit the barrel.

I drove back and found the garage and it's lights. Drove along slowly and
found.... a graveled entrance to... who knows and who cares? The gravel
covered the whole shoulder for about the width of a driveway.

How is it that I didn't spot this sooner? Why didn't the previous rider have
trouble with this? My guess is a car had been coming and I kept my head down
to avoid being blinded. This cuts down my visibility to about 25 feet. Going
downhill at maybe 18 or 20mph that doesn't leave a lot of time to do evasive
manuvers, but also if the oncoming car was timed just right, he might have
gone by just before I got to the gravel when I was adjusting to my low light
LED.

Conclusion: I'm going to blame my crappy headlight. It's only good for roads
on which there are no cars and no gravel patches or surprises like pot holes
and large dead animals. Shoulders have a lot of crap on them. Much easier to
see in the day. I may have to get a much brighter light or face the effects
of crash at 20 mph which can break bones or get your run over.

The industry, if it had any scruples, shouldn't even sell a weak light. It
gives false confidence. It has surprising weaknesses that can lead to
disaster.

Absolutely..take NO responsibility for yourself, blame Cateye-Huh???

Look at how bright the light is and ride accordingly...If you take a
road bike with 20mm tires onto a MTB trail and then crash, are ya
gonna blame the tire maker?

If you want a brighter light, buy a brighter light and be prepared to
pay more for it. No such thing as a free lunch.



Have you had a near disaster while riding at night? Post your experience and
conclusion.

Greens wrote:

Conclusion: I'm going to blame my crappy headlight. It's only good for roads
on which there are no cars and no gravel patches or surprises like pot holes
and large dead animals. Shoulders have a lot of crap on them. Much easier to
see in the day. I may have to get a much brighter light or face the effects
of crash at 20 mph which can break bones or get your run over.

The industry, if it had any scruples, shouldn't even sell a weak light. It
gives false confidence. It has surprising weaknesses that can lead to
disaster.


There are "seeing" lights and "be seen" lights. The best rule of thumb
is "never outride your lights". Sounds like you either had a "be seen"
light where you needed a "seeing" light, or you were riding 20mph with a
10mph light.

"Qui si parla Campagnolo-www.vecchios.com" wrote in
message ups.com...

Greens wrote:
At the risk of sounding obsessed with safety, I will describe an incident
this evening while riding downhill on a road I've only been on once
before.
Please note; I'd rather this didn't turn into a discussion about me or
my
obsessions, rather I'd prefer it if other night riders shared their tales
of
near disaster and disaster not averted. This would be in the interest of
educating the night riding public in avoiding problems.

It was dark, clear night and I was using my Cateye EL 300 headlight with
new
batteries. I was going downhill on the shoulder of a well maintened road.
Cars were few. All of a sudden I noticed something just ahead. It looked
like white rocks. I thought about ten rocks, each a half inch to an inch
in
diameter. It was too late to do anything else. I ran right into them and
to
my surprise I found my front wheel on my mountain bike sliding sideways
about six inches. Just as I was about to go down, I cleared the rocks. A
little shaken, I made note of a house with lights on either side of the
garage door lit so that I might drive back and look the thing over in
better
light. The rider passing before me hadn't noticed anything. I noticed a
colorful barrel marking some recent work in the middle of the shoulder
not
too much further along. There I swerved around the barrel into the
traffic
lanes rather than hit the barrel.

I drove back and found the garage and it's lights. Drove along slowly and
found.... a graveled entrance to... who knows and who cares? The gravel
covered the whole shoulder for about the width of a driveway.

How is it that I didn't spot this sooner? Why didn't the previous rider
have
trouble with this? My guess is a car had been coming and I kept my head
down
to avoid being blinded. This cuts down my visibility to about 25 feet.
Going
downhill at maybe 18 or 20mph that doesn't leave a lot of time to do
evasive
manuvers, but also if the oncoming car was timed just right, he might
have
gone by just before I got to the gravel when I was adjusting to my low
light
LED.

Conclusion: I'm going to blame my crappy headlight. It's only good for
roads
on which there are no cars and no gravel patches or surprises like pot
holes
and large dead animals. Shoulders have a lot of crap on them. Much easier
to
see in the day. I may have to get a much brighter light or face the
effects
of crash at 20 mph which can break bones or get your run over.

The industry, if it had any scruples, shouldn't even sell a weak light.
It
gives false confidence. It has surprising weaknesses that can lead to
disaster.

Absolutely..take NO responsibility for yourself, blame Cateye-Huh???

Look at how bright the light is and ride accordingly...If you take a
road bike with 20mm tires onto a MTB trail and then crash, are ya
gonna blame the tire maker?

If you want a brighter light, buy a brighter light and be prepared to
pay more for it. No such thing as a free lunch.



Have you had a near disaster while riding at night? Post your experience
and
conclusion.


Riding downhill at the speed I was going was a reasonable speed. The cars
were few and 99.999% of the road was smooth. Am I supposed to ride at 10mph
the whole 7 miles just in case there is a patch of gravel? Seems unlikely
anyone would be that cautious. That's why I blame the light and Cateye for
not testing the light extensively in actual use. A little night use of the
light by responsible evaluators would quickly turn up it's weaknesses and
dangers but cateye and the people selling them are only interested in
capturing the cheapskate market who wants to ride at night. They know that
most people won't buy a $400 light for a few nights of riding and they know
that those same people will spend $40 towards the same purpose if they're
adequately assured (bull****ted) that it is safe so they put the light on
the market even though they know the light is an inadequate piece of crap.
If someone gets hurt and actually has the ballls to go to court, they know
that cyclists have a reputation for being odd and that bicycles aren't seen
as legitimate road vehicles in court. The light won't be held to the same
standards of safety that a light on a licensed motor vehicle.

"Peter Cole" wrote in message
. ..
Greens wrote:

Conclusion: I'm going to blame my crappy headlight. It's only good for
roads on which there are no cars and no gravel patches or surprises like
pot holes and large dead animals. Shoulders have a lot of crap on them.
Much easier to see in the day. I may have to get a much brighter light or
face the effects of crash at 20 mph which can break bones or get your run
over.

The industry, if it had any scruples, shouldn't even sell a weak light.
It gives false confidence. It has surprising weaknesses that can lead to
disaster.


There are "seeing" lights and "be seen" lights. The best rule of thumb is
"never outride your lights". Sounds like you either had a "be seen" light
where you needed a "seeing" light, or you were riding 20mph with a 10mph
light.

Again, should it be left up to the individual cyclist to think of when a "be
seen" light or "seeing" light is necessary? Individuals don't have time to
test things extensively. They have to trust merchants and manufacturers.
Those parties are only interested in making profits. The solution is
regulation. Whether you ride or not, you're using a public road. Certain
safety requirements need to be met because everyone faces the same oncoming
vehicles and road hazards. It doesn't matter how cheap their vehicle is. Do
you think that pedestrians and cyclists should be exempt from safety
requirements? That's how it is now. You can walk, children can walk on the
side of high speed traffic without any lights or reflectors. Is that how you
want things to be?

On Sep 25, 6:11 pm, "Greens" wrote:

Riding downhill at the speed I was going was a reasonable speed. The cars
were few and 99.999% of the road was smooth. Am I supposed to ride at 10mph
the whole 7 miles just in case there is a patch of gravel?

Yes. If the light only lights up far enough to see stuff in time to
react at 10mph, that what you have to do.


Seems unlikely
anyone would be that cautious. That's why I blame the light and Cateye for
not testing the light extensively in actual use. A little night use of the
light by responsible evaluators would quickly turn up it's weaknesses and
dangers but cateye and the people selling them are only interested in
capturing the cheapskate market who wants to ride at night. They know that
most people won't buy a $400 light for a few nights of riding and they know
that those same people will spend $40 towards the same purpose if they're
adequately assured (bull****ted) that it is safe so they put the light on
the market even though they know the light is an inadequate piece of crap.
If someone gets hurt and actually has the ballls to go to court, they know
that cyclists have a reputation for being odd and that bicycles aren't seen
as legitimate road vehicles in court. The light won't be held to the same
standards of safety that a light on a licensed motor vehicle.

I think yuo a reading WAY more into this than there is. Products of
all sorts come in a variety of quality and utlity levels. You can buy
cheap-o screwdrivers that barely work one time, or you can get top-
notch stuff. Sometimes the cheap one is all you need, sometimes it's
not. Same with everything else.

Joseph

On Sep 25, 11:19 am, "Greens" wrote:
"Peter Cole" wrote in message

. ..



Greens wrote:

Conclusion: I'm going to blame my crappy headlight. It's only good for
roads on which there are no cars and no gravel patches or surprises like
pot holes and large dead animals. Shoulders have a lot of crap on them.
Much easier to see in the day. I may have to get a much brighter light or
face the effects of crash at 20 mph which can break bones or get your run
over.

The industry, if it had any scruples, shouldn't even sell a weak light.
It gives false confidence. It has surprising weaknesses that can lead to
disaster.

There are "seeing" lights and "be seen" lights. The best rule of thumb is
"never outride your lights". Sounds like you either had a "be seen" light
where you needed a "seeing" light, or you were riding 20mph with a 10mph
light.

Again, should it be left up to the individual cyclist to think of when a "be
seen" light or "seeing" light is necessary? Individuals don't have time to
test things extensively. They have to trust merchants and manufacturers.
Those parties are only interested in making profits. The solution is
regulation. Whether you ride or not, you're using a public road. Certain
safety requirements need to be met because everyone faces the same oncoming
vehicles and road hazards. It doesn't matter how cheap their vehicle is. Do
you think that pedestrians and cyclists should be exempt from safety
requirements? That's how it is now. You can walk, children can walk on the
side of high speed traffic without any lights or reflectors. Is that how you
want things to be?


I pass a commuter on his bike to a fast food place each morning. He
travels slowly down a well lit road and he rides an inexpensive old
cruiser. He uses one of those cheap battery lights and it serves the
vital purpose of making him highly visible. If your proposed
regulation permitted only the sale of powerful lights that would cost
him about a weeks pay, this guy just would probably just ride without
one. Cheap lights are better than no lights.

Wayne