Should I go clipless?

Peter Cole wrote:
psycholist wrote:
"Peter Cole" wrote in message
...

psycholist wrote:

Just so you know ... it's not about pushing down and/or pulling
up. It's about spinning circles (or as close to it as possible).
That's the most efficient way to pedal. Remember the old
locomotive engines that had a large wheel turned by the steam
engine and the large wheel was attached by steel rods that drove
smaller wheels out in front of it. Well, think of your hip as the
large driving wheel. A good, efficient spin comes from the hip.

This seems a logical theory but it isn't supported by science.


It's not a theory. It's an analogy.


I was referring to "pedaling in circles", not locomotives. I didn't
follow the analogy, either.


Except for those intermittent "Chooo, choooo!" whistles, Bob's a fun riding
partner.

HTH, BS

Thu, 26 May 2005 07:25:54 -0400, ,
Peter Cole wrote:


Those are PowerGrips. I used them for a while. I think they are very
dangerous. I wouldn't recommend them.

How so? What would make them more dangerous than clipless pedals?

The release action is the same twisting motion as clipless pedals. So,
even switching back and forth between PowerGrips and clipless isn't as
potentially dangerous as switching between clips & straps and
clipless.

I got into trouble with PowerGrips while I was using clips & straps on
all the other bikes. I was still trying to twist out when I hit the
ground badly straining my leg. After that I had to switch back to
clips & straps because I couldn't twist my leg for at least a month.
For that, I wouldn't fault the PowerGrips as being dangerous.
--
zk

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----

In article ,
dgk wrote:
On 25 May 2005 10:25:49 -0700, "Will"
wrote:


I understand the notion. I went to clipless years ago and would feel
odd being "unattached" to the bike these days. I put old fashioned toe
clip pedals on in the winter so I can ride without freezing my feet but
they come off as soon as the temperature gets back into the 40's.

I think the question really is a stop and go issue. If you are stopping
in traffic frequently, the comfort and efficiency is diminished quite a
bit.


I have a bike that had the cages once. I couldn't get my foot out when
I had to and by the time I did get it out it was just in time to break
my ankle.

_ There is a learning curve, but once you get to the point where
getting out of the pedals becomes an unconcious reaction,
frequent stopping and starting is not an issue. Pedals with
a bit more platform help with this as well. In an emergency
clipless are much better than cages, if you've practiced to
the point where it's automatic.

_ I think lightly treaded MTB shoes and SPD type pedals are the
way to go. I like the various Crank Brothers pedals a lot, and
Shimano makes some relatively cheap MTB shoes ( M-20 and M-30 )
that are great for commuting.

_ Booker C. Bense

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: 2.6.2

iQCVAwUBQpYE7GTWTAjn5N/lAQFA3wP/Wh2XNj8Gi1p0yZylXSIPfnTRdeFpuVG9
4LlJo8ZHb0kKwIs4jhzJDJaCeW+q9Ynm2AFtwQ+8D6FYmLGHGB efBXAMPdkpJ0XE
z0Ks98CFReqJN6/9LMt0MAJKYqS0LAL3odJTlv+6PqLy4iwMvqJ7BSCVeNp1D3eR
oDkTqGvAB2g=
=JGW8
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

Zoot Katz wrote:
Thu, 26 May 2005 07:25:54 -0400, ,
Peter Cole wrote:


Those are PowerGrips. I used them for a while. I think they are very
dangerous. I wouldn't recommend them.


How so? What would make them more dangerous than clipless pedals?

The release action is the same twisting motion as clipless pedals. So,
even switching back and forth between PowerGrips and clipless isn't as
potentially dangerous as switching between clips & straps and
clipless.

Yes, except twisting heel to the outside tightens Powergrips, unlike
clipless which release either way. I'm very wary of pedals that can trap
your foot in a twisting fall, a friend just had a plate and several
screws installed, his leg will never be the same.

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----

In article ,
Zoot Katz wrote:
Thu, 26 May 2005 07:25:54 -0400, ,
Peter Cole wrote:


Those are PowerGrips. I used them for a while. I think they are very
dangerous. I wouldn't recommend them.

How so? What would make them more dangerous than clipless pedals?

_ Peter says that every time they come up. I really don't
understand why either. I think they fall somewhere in between
clips and straps and clipless pedals. Getting out can be more
complicated than clipless due interactions between pedal and
shoe tred, however it's much simpler than clips and straps.


The release action is the same twisting motion as clipless pedals. So,
even switching back and forth between PowerGrips and clipless isn't as
potentially dangerous as switching between clips & straps and
clipless.

_ Well, you can release by twisting in the other direction, like
with clipless, but I'm not sure how much that matters.


I got into trouble with PowerGrips while I was using clips & straps on
all the other bikes. I was still trying to twist out when I hit the
ground badly straining my leg. After that I had to switch back to
clips & straps because I couldn't twist my leg for at least a month.
For that, I wouldn't fault the PowerGrips as being dangerous.

_ In my experience, they work pretty well and are very easy to
get in / out of if you're used to clipless already. The do take
a bit of adjusting every time you change shoes.

_ Booker C. Bense

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: 2.6.2

iQCVAwUBQpYHpWTWTAjn5N/lAQHGIgP/S3ubJS77tqc7ZL6YCpNek5ZiEth+r0P2
DJsNqZCkcv7KIy58YSrCJ8FCZ9OROn8NFwl1LczeBX4zmQOtNE RGxgjSRA7Rzyc/
Cwk/Dsb71Bo8iCXkVwlT8AkdqI1Jn5NhTqK/5yUV2ealkrKpVJfukKPUSLzxqCLs
qDutpwObUls=
=5oms
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----

In article ,
Peter Cole wrote:
Zoot Katz wrote:
Thu, 26 May 2005 07:25:54 -0400, ,
Peter Cole wrote:


Those are PowerGrips. I used them for a while. I think they are very
dangerous. I wouldn't recommend them.


How so? What would make them more dangerous than clipless pedals?

The release action is the same twisting motion as clipless pedals. So,
even switching back and forth between PowerGrips and clipless isn't as
potentially dangerous as switching between clips & straps and
clipless.

Yes, except twisting heel to the outside tightens Powergrips, unlike
clipless which release either way. I'm very wary of pedals that can trap
your foot in a twisting fall, a friend just had a plate and several
screws installed, his leg will never be the same.

_ Don't you mean inside? If twisting outwards tightens the
Powergrips, you have them installed incorrectly.

_ Booker C. Bense


-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: 2.6.2

iQCVAwUBQpYINmTWTAjn5N/lAQHi8AP+JJFu8fhkrFZARMGWrqYRjZ2OlQBZiMqz
9xCqb+zBGeBXNPabs2ijZwZUZbAxSOnm08emaOUPdOTJ69oPKn +Lj6FvolpYh6fM
2h1QN1QGf178QiW/mV+viANQrhg6iiY0Awt2z8NRii3/W3JPCQtW1Czg1CLQu+OD
LG0SDXWTJ3c=
=kEab
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

Thu, 26 May 2005 13:25:18 -0400, ,
Peter Cole wrote:

Zoot Katz wrote:
Peter Cole wrote:

Those are PowerGrips. I used them for a while. I think they are very
dangerous. I wouldn't recommend them.

How so? What would make them more dangerous than clipless pedals?

The release action is the same twisting motion as clipless pedals. So,
even switching back and forth between PowerGrips and clipless isn't as
potentially dangerous as switching between clips & straps and
clipless.

Yes, except twisting heel to the outside tightens Powergrips, unlike
clipless which release either way.

Vice-versa. Outside releases.

Discovering that my clipless pedals released by twisting either way
was a fortuitously timed pleasant surprise. . . Maybe, since my leg
broke while fully disengaged from the pedal.

I'm very wary of pedals that can trap
your foot in a twisting fall, a friend just had a plate and several
screws installed, his leg will never be the same.

I'm already thinking that one of the screws in my leg is going to have
to be removed. Now that I'm putting partial weight on that leg I can
feel the screws and one of them feels wrong.
--
zk

The "rivendell-way" is to use these pedals without any type of
retention. Grant Petersen argues that restraining the foot is
"overblown" and not necessary as it may actually be detrimental as you
don't get to use all of your muscles when say, climbing. He believes
that he is just as fast climbing without retention as with. If you
must be restrainted, he recommends normal toe clips and straps or use
"power grips":

http://www.rivbike.com/webalog/pedal...aps/14046.html

Grant and the rivendell-way is definitely retro. For commuting and
street use, I use the MKS pedals without any restraints. It works well.
However, for longer distances, centuries and any type of long climbs,
give me my clipless pedals (Speedplays!)

Zoot Katz wrote:
Thu, 26 May 2005 13:25:18 -0400, ,
Peter Cole wrote:


Zoot Katz wrote:

Peter Cole wrote:


Those are PowerGrips. I used them for a while. I think they are very
dangerous. I wouldn't recommend them.

How so? What would make them more dangerous than clipless pedals?

The release action is the same twisting motion as clipless pedals. So,
even switching back and forth between PowerGrips and clipless isn't as
potentially dangerous as switching between clips & straps and
clipless.

Yes, except twisting heel to the outside tightens Powergrips, unlike
clipless which release either way.


Vice-versa. Outside releases.

Discovering that my clipless pedals released by twisting either way
was a fortuitously timed pleasant surprise. . . Maybe, since my leg
broke while fully disengaged from the pedal.


I'm very wary of pedals that can trap
your foot in a twisting fall, a friend just had a plate and several
screws installed, his leg will never be the same.


I'm already thinking that one of the screws in my leg is going to have
to be removed. Now that I'm putting partial weight on that leg I can
feel the screws and one of them feels wrong.

I hope you rehab better than my friend. He had significant nerve damage
and is a long way from full strength in that leg after many months of PT.

Booker C. Bense wrote:
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----

In article ,
Zoot Katz wrote:

Thu, 26 May 2005 07:25:54 -0400, ,
Peter Cole wrote:


Those are PowerGrips. I used them for a while. I think they are very
dangerous. I wouldn't recommend them.

How so? What would make them more dangerous than clipless pedals?


_ Peter says that every time they come up. I really don't
understand why either.

I do a lot of off-road riding. I've taken dozens of hard falls in every
conceivable way: over the bars, backwards, high side, front washout,
etc. I've broken ribs twice, had many bad contusions, but I've never
trapped a foot. I'm really conservative about that. I don't like using
any foot attachment method that won't release reliably. With good
products available so cheaply I don't see any reason to take chances,
either. People who ride exclusively on the road probably don't fall
enough to appreciate the dangers. I would never use straps or Powergrips
again for off-road riding, so I can't see the justification for using
them on the road, either.