California's Fires

On 10/26/2017 2:27 PM, AMuzi wrote:
On 10/26/2017 1:36 PM, Radey Shouman wrote:
writes:

On Thursday, October 26, 2017 at 10:07:39 AM UTC-7, Radey
Shouman wrote:
writes:

On Wednesday, October 25, 2017 at 8:21:12 PM UTC-7,
John B. wrote:

P.S. I just came across this on you tube
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoQajOum6wA

Isn't the epipen nothing more than a convenience? Most
people that are
going into antiphalactic shock are perfectly able to
load a needle and
use it. This is not an instantaneous reaction. And if
you are so
severely allergic to something that you need to carry
medication with
you all the time wouldn't you be sure that the people
around you would
know what to do?

So it is sort of confusing to me that people that had
to do these
things for decades suddenly can't do them because there
is a more
convenient method available.

Convenience in an emergency translates to survival
rate. Most people
subject to anaphylactic shock are not trained nor used
to injecting
themselves, much less locating the drug, figuring and
measuring a dose,
and then injecting, all while rapidly deteriorating
physically and
mentally.

The epipen provides a pre-measured dose, a convenient
and easily
recognized method of storage, and a simple mode of
operation -- you just
stab it in, through clothing, no fine control needed.
It's usable by a
person in a medical emergency, or by a family member
without special
training. EMTs and emergency room physicians use them
too, I watched
the process when my wife went into anaphylactic shock
last summer.

The big problem seems to be that it's too difficult to
get competing
products approved, and too easy to milk government
protected
intellectual rent. The epipen or equivalent is hardly
rocket surgery.
--

Radey - if you do not understand that you have allergies
of a nature
that would set off anaphylactic shock why would you be
carrying an
epipen? And if you do surely you understand that these
people would be
trained in instantly recognizing the symptoms and would
always carry
medication and hypos.

Training that is used seldom or never is difficult.
Anyone regularly
going into anaphylactic shock is probably not long for the
world. Most
of those carrying epipens rarely have to use them, almost
all are
probably replaced unused, when they pass their expiration
date.

Should we all stock fire extinguishers that have to be
loaded just before
they're used?

Or do you carry an epipen around with you on the off
chance that
someone is going to require emergency medical treatment
after eating
some of John's Thai food?

I don't, but medical or quasi-medical offices, eg dental
offices, do
keep epipens on the off chance that a patient will require
them. A nice
market to abuse. Would you rather a dental hygienist had
to try to
look up or remember the right dosage of epinephrine,
locate it, put it
in a syringe, and inject, or just stab a ready-made device
into some
patient going into shock?


By the way do you know if the recommended dose is
weight-adjusted? I'm thinking your standard issue 8 year old
with peanut allergy versus a 350lb adult USAian. I don't know.


Apologies for replying to myself but is is indeed complex:
https://www.drugs.com/dosage/epinephrine.html



--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

On Thursday, October 26, 2017 at 9:36:06 AM UTC-7, AMuzi wrote:
On 10/25/2017 7:51 AM, wrote:
On Tuesday, October 24, 2017 at 3:55:34 PM UTC-7, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 10/24/2017 5:31 PM, wrote:
On Tuesday, October 24, 2017 at 8:42:44 AM UTC-7, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 10/24/2017 10:44 AM, AMuzi wrote:


an old observation but still true:
Under capitalism, it's man against man.
Under enlightened communism, it's the other way around.

I'd say that under modern American capitalism, it's billion dollar
corporation against man.

I find your comments to be a major reason that this country has had so many problems. I bet you made these sorts of comments in front of the children you were teaching because the leftist mutter these same sort of ignorances.

I taught things like statics, dynamics, strength of materials, robotics,
etc. For example, things like stress = M*c/I or like the following*:
D = (64*N*Pa*(K*L)^2/pi^3/E)^.25

But you're right that what I taught was sort of leftist. That's because,
as we've seen, reality has a bias against the right wing. ;-)

(*I admit, I had to look that one up. I no longer have things like that
memorized.)

--
- Frank Krygowski


The current Fed tilts into a very tenuous bridge between A and B often non existent. For example, throwing chicken guts,coal debris and proven toxics into clean backwater increases national production ? It does satisfy the local yokel vote of 5.

DemoProp writes this is basic mental deficiency that their smarts are all in industry as per throwing toxics into clean DemO water.


The effective policy is to tax poor working people to
subsidize electric cars and solar panels for rich people.
Makes the environmental degradation magically move 8000
miles to China so we can pretend it's gone.

You're welcome.

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

the so called tax reform is a wait n see....wht the bad guy can get away with ..the future results of Rump Boasting clearly understood and clearly ignored.

On Thursday, October 26, 2017 at 10:20:21 AM UTC-7, wrote:
On Thursday, October 26, 2017 at 10:10:01 AM UTC-7, Radey Shouman wrote:
writes:

[...]

And MANY of the drugs that are
sold by competing foreign firms were developed in the US and were
immediately copied the second that the patents ran out.

You say that like it's a bad thing. I thought it was the very reason we
have patents.

Huh? I am responding to comments about the cost of drugs. We had Jay not understanding that the cost of developing drugs is gigantic.

I understand better than you know. My father was a pharmacist who started out as a research chemist at Eli Lilly. My uncle was president/CEO of Pfizer. I read the 10Ks and annual reports just to get jaw-dropped by his compensation package. R&D was a big part of the presentation because having a new drug in the pipeline jacks up share value, particularly when its Viagra.

The fact that a product is the result of expensive R&D does not mean the federal government should be prohibited from negotiating over the purchase price of that product -- whether it's a drug or a computer. Imagine if the USAF was prohibited from negotiating with Boeing or Lockheed over the price of bomber.

-- Jay Beattie.

AMuzi writes:

On 10/26/2017 1:36 PM, Radey Shouman wrote:
writes:

On Thursday, October 26, 2017 at 10:07:39 AM UTC-7, Radey Shouman wrote:
writes:

On Wednesday, October 25, 2017 at 8:21:12 PM UTC-7, John B. wrote:

P.S. I just came across this on you tube
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoQajOum6wA

Isn't the epipen nothing more than a convenience? Most people that are
going into antiphalactic shock are perfectly able to load a needle and
use it. This is not an instantaneous reaction. And if you are so
severely allergic to something that you need to carry medication with
you all the time wouldn't you be sure that the people around you would
know what to do?

So it is sort of confusing to me that people that had to do these
things for decades suddenly can't do them because there is a more
convenient method available.

Convenience in an emergency translates to survival rate. Most people
subject to anaphylactic shock are not trained nor used to injecting
themselves, much less locating the drug, figuring and measuring a dose,
and then injecting, all while rapidly deteriorating physically and
mentally.

The epipen provides a pre-measured dose, a convenient and easily
recognized method of storage, and a simple mode of operation -- you just
stab it in, through clothing, no fine control needed. It's usable by a
person in a medical emergency, or by a family member without special
training. EMTs and emergency room physicians use them too, I watched
the process when my wife went into anaphylactic shock last summer.

The big problem seems to be that it's too difficult to get competing
products approved, and too easy to milk government protected
intellectual rent. The epipen or equivalent is hardly rocket surgery.
--

Radey - if you do not understand that you have allergies of a nature
that would set off anaphylactic shock why would you be carrying an
epipen? And if you do surely you understand that these people would be
trained in instantly recognizing the symptoms and would always carry
medication and hypos.

Training that is used seldom or never is difficult. Anyone regularly
going into anaphylactic shock is probably not long for the world. Most
of those carrying epipens rarely have to use them, almost all are
probably replaced unused, when they pass their expiration date.

Should we all stock fire extinguishers that have to be loaded just before
they're used?

Or do you carry an epipen around with you on the off chance that
someone is going to require emergency medical treatment after eating
some of John's Thai food?

I don't, but medical or quasi-medical offices, eg dental offices, do
keep epipens on the off chance that a patient will require them. A nice
market to abuse. Would you rather a dental hygienist had to try to
look up or remember the right dosage of epinephrine, locate it, put it
in a syringe, and inject, or just stab a ready-made device into some
patient going into shock?


By the way do you know if the recommended dose is weight-adjusted? I'm
thinking your standard issue 8 year old with peanut allergy versus a
350lb adult USAian. I don't know.

I don't know. I do know that one is not always enough, the EMTs gave my
wife two on the spot, and she got two more and an epinephrine drip in
the ER. Too much excitement.


--

jbeattie writes:

On Thursday, October 26, 2017 at 10:20:21 AM UTC-7, wrote:
On Thursday, October 26, 2017 at 10:10:01 AM UTC-7, Radey Shouman wrote:
writes:

[...]

And MANY of the drugs that are
sold by competing foreign firms were developed in the US and were
immediately copied the second that the patents ran out.

You say that like it's a bad thing. I thought it was the very reason we
have patents.

Huh? I am responding to comments about the cost of drugs. We had Jay
not understanding that the cost of developing drugs is gigantic.

I understand better than you know. My father was a pharmacist who
started out as a research chemist at Eli Lilly. My uncle was
president/CEO of Pfizer. I read the 10Ks and annual reports just to
get jaw-dropped by his compensation package. R&D was a big part of the
presentation because having a new drug in the pipeline jacks up share
value, particularly when its Viagra.

The fact that a product is the result of expensive R&D does not mean
the federal government should be prohibited from negotiating over the
purchase price of that product -- whether it's a drug or a
computer. Imagine if the USAF was prohibited from negotiating with
Boeing or Lockheed over the price of bomber.

Are you sure that would be noticeably worse? Follow the F35?

On Thursday, October 26, 2017 at 11:36:48 AM UTC-7, Radey Shouman wrote:
writes:

On Thursday, October 26, 2017 at 10:07:39 AM UTC-7, Radey Shouman wrote:
writes:

On Wednesday, October 25, 2017 at 8:21:12 PM UTC-7, John B. wrote:

P.S. I just came across this on you tube
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoQajOum6wA

Isn't the epipen nothing more than a convenience? Most people that are
going into antiphalactic shock are perfectly able to load a needle and
use it. This is not an instantaneous reaction. And if you are so
severely allergic to something that you need to carry medication with
you all the time wouldn't you be sure that the people around you would
know what to do?

So it is sort of confusing to me that people that had to do these
things for decades suddenly can't do them because there is a more
convenient method available.

Convenience in an emergency translates to survival rate. Most people
subject to anaphylactic shock are not trained nor used to injecting
themselves, much less locating the drug, figuring and measuring a dose,
and then injecting, all while rapidly deteriorating physically and
mentally.

The epipen provides a pre-measured dose, a convenient and easily
recognized method of storage, and a simple mode of operation -- you just
stab it in, through clothing, no fine control needed. It's usable by a
person in a medical emergency, or by a family member without special
training. EMTs and emergency room physicians use them too, I watched
the process when my wife went into anaphylactic shock last summer.

The big problem seems to be that it's too difficult to get competing
products approved, and too easy to milk government protected
intellectual rent. The epipen or equivalent is hardly rocket surgery.
--

Radey - if you do not understand that you have allergies of a nature
that would set off anaphylactic shock why would you be carrying an
epipen? And if you do surely you understand that these people would be
trained in instantly recognizing the symptoms and would always carry
medication and hypos.

Training that is used seldom or never is difficult. Anyone regularly
going into anaphylactic shock is probably not long for the world. Most
of those carrying epipens rarely have to use them, almost all are
probably replaced unused, when they pass their expiration date.

Should we all stock fire extinguishers that have to be loaded just before
they're used?

Or do you carry an epipen around with you on the off chance that
someone is going to require emergency medical treatment after eating
some of John's Thai food?

I don't, but medical or quasi-medical offices, eg dental offices, do
keep epipens on the off chance that a patient will require them. A nice
market to abuse. Would you rather a dental hygienist had to try to
look up or remember the right dosage of epinephrine, locate it, put it
in a syringe, and inject, or just stab a ready-made device into some
patient going into shock?

In my small experience with seeing people go into shock it was a food allergy and took 20 minutes to get full blown and the victim was already in the hospital and treated.

On Thursday, October 26, 2017 at 1:24:05 PM UTC-7, jbeattie wrote:
On Thursday, October 26, 2017 at 10:20:21 AM UTC-7, wrote:
On Thursday, October 26, 2017 at 10:10:01 AM UTC-7, Radey Shouman wrote:
writes:

[...]

And MANY of the drugs that are
sold by competing foreign firms were developed in the US and were
immediately copied the second that the patents ran out.

You say that like it's a bad thing. I thought it was the very reason we
have patents.

Huh? I am responding to comments about the cost of drugs. We had Jay not understanding that the cost of developing drugs is gigantic.

I understand better than you know. My father was a pharmacist who started out as a research chemist at Eli Lilly. My uncle was president/CEO of Pfizer. I read the 10Ks and annual reports just to get jaw-dropped by his compensation package. R&D was a big part of the presentation because having a new drug in the pipeline jacks up share value, particularly when its Viagra..

The fact that a product is the result of expensive R&D does not mean the federal government should be prohibited from negotiating over the purchase price of that product -- whether it's a drug or a computer. Imagine if the USAF was prohibited from negotiating with Boeing or Lockheed over the price of bomber.

What does the government have to do with the price of drugs on the market?

You talk about Viagra (which was originally developed as a heart drug and turned out to have a happy side effect) and I'm sure you realize that all of the easy drugs are on the market and the new stuff can require a decade or even twice that long to get approvals.

On 10/26/2017 5:04 PM, Radey Shouman wrote:
jbeattie writes:

On Thursday, October 26, 2017 at 10:20:21 AM UTC-7, wrote:
On Thursday, October 26, 2017 at 10:10:01 AM UTC-7, Radey Shouman wrote:
writes:

[...]

And MANY of the drugs that are
sold by competing foreign firms were developed in the US and were
immediately copied the second that the patents ran out.

You say that like it's a bad thing. I thought it was the very reason we
have patents.

Huh? I am responding to comments about the cost of drugs. We had Jay
not understanding that the cost of developing drugs is gigantic.

I understand better than you know. My father was a pharmacist who
started out as a research chemist at Eli Lilly. My uncle was
president/CEO of Pfizer. I read the 10Ks and annual reports just to
get jaw-dropped by his compensation package. R&D was a big part of the
presentation because having a new drug in the pipeline jacks up share
value, particularly when its Viagra.

The fact that a product is the result of expensive R&D does not mean
the federal government should be prohibited from negotiating over the
purchase price of that product -- whether it's a drug or a
computer. Imagine if the USAF was prohibited from negotiating with
Boeing or Lockheed over the price of bomber.

Are you sure that would be noticeably worse? Follow the F35?

I think Tom means that this stuff is all just fine:
https://www.thenation.com/article/on...a-toilet-seat/


--
- Frank Krygowski

On 10/26/2017 6:26 PM, wrote:
On Thursday, October 26, 2017 at 11:36:48 AM UTC-7, Radey Shouman wrote:
writes:

On Thursday, October 26, 2017 at 10:07:39 AM UTC-7, Radey Shouman wrote:
writes:

On Wednesday, October 25, 2017 at 8:21:12 PM UTC-7, John B. wrote:

P.S. I just came across this on you tube
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoQajOum6wA

Isn't the epipen nothing more than a convenience? Most people that are
going into antiphalactic shock are perfectly able to load a needle and
use it. This is not an instantaneous reaction. And if you are so
severely allergic to something that you need to carry medication with
you all the time wouldn't you be sure that the people around you would
know what to do?

So it is sort of confusing to me that people that had to do these
things for decades suddenly can't do them because there is a more
convenient method available.

Convenience in an emergency translates to survival rate. Most people
subject to anaphylactic shock are not trained nor used to injecting
themselves, much less locating the drug, figuring and measuring a dose,
and then injecting, all while rapidly deteriorating physically and
mentally.

The epipen provides a pre-measured dose, a convenient and easily
recognized method of storage, and a simple mode of operation -- you just
stab it in, through clothing, no fine control needed. It's usable by a
person in a medical emergency, or by a family member without special
training. EMTs and emergency room physicians use them too, I watched
the process when my wife went into anaphylactic shock last summer.

The big problem seems to be that it's too difficult to get competing
products approved, and too easy to milk government protected
intellectual rent. The epipen or equivalent is hardly rocket surgery.
--

Radey - if you do not understand that you have allergies of a nature
that would set off anaphylactic shock why would you be carrying an
epipen? And if you do surely you understand that these people would be
trained in instantly recognizing the symptoms and would always carry
medication and hypos.

Training that is used seldom or never is difficult. Anyone regularly
going into anaphylactic shock is probably not long for the world. Most
of those carrying epipens rarely have to use them, almost all are
probably replaced unused, when they pass their expiration date.

Should we all stock fire extinguishers that have to be loaded just before
they're used?

Or do you carry an epipen around with you on the off chance that
someone is going to require emergency medical treatment after eating
some of John's Thai food?

I don't, but medical or quasi-medical offices, eg dental offices, do
keep epipens on the off chance that a patient will require them. A nice
market to abuse. Would you rather a dental hygienist had to try to
look up or remember the right dosage of epinephrine, locate it, put it
in a syringe, and inject, or just stab a ready-made device into some
patient going into shock?

In my small experience with seeing people go into shock it was a food allergy and took 20 minutes to get full blown and the victim was already in the hospital and treated.

Our former next-door-neighbor always carried an epi-pen in the back
yard. Supposedly, he had almost died once from a bee sting. I got the
impression that for him, the reaction was quite quick.

The really odd part of the story is, he loved bees and had a beehive in
the far back corner. But he had a friend do the major tending chores.

--
- Frank Krygowski

On 10/26/2017 6:31 PM, wrote:

What does the government have to do with the price of drugs on the market?

Oh, nothing at all, Tom, nothing at all! The fact that U.S. drug prices
are so much higher than any other developed country is due entirely to
cosmic rays. Or something.

--
- Frank Krygowski