Do cyclists make better motorcyclists?

Eric Lambi writes:

Do the 2-wheel skills go along when you use a metal motor?

If I'm any indication, the answer is no. And I've raced a couple
hundred crits in my lifetime.

I agree, although I think the opposite is true. A rider who corners
fast on a moto is fast and that skill is transferable to cornering on
a bicycle. That doesn't mean he'll be a strong bicyclist though.

Jobst Brandt

On Mon, 30 Aug 2004 14:10:33 -0700, "Tom Nakashima"
wrote:


wrote in message
.. .

Cornering isn't terribly important on bicycles, despite our
proud claims to the contrary. You don't hear much about
Lance Armstrong out-cornering the competition because
bicycling is mostly slow-motion drag-racing. We usually
pedal around at speeds so low that we wouldn't catch the eye
of a traffic cop running a speed trap in a school zone.
Carl Fogel

Cornering isn't terribly important on bicycles?
Have to disagree, and you may too if you've ever been in fast descents on a
bicycle, where picking your line is important. I'm not sure if you remember
the 1997 Tour de France when Richard Virenque was trying to put Jan Ullrich
at great risk in the corners on one of the mountain states. The roads were
wet and slick as Jan had pretty poor descending skills in the rain.
Virenque knew this and took advantage of his winter training in the French
alps. Ullrich nearly crashed and could have changed the outcome of the
finish of the Tour, but he played it safe and let Richard have his day.
Ulrich went on to win the Tour and the rest is history.

I ride both, motorcycles, and bicycles, and ride them fast in the corners if
I'm familiar with the road, or can visibly see the road ahead.
Cornering on a motorcycle and cornering on a bicycle are two different
things. Throttle plays an important role in corning on a motorcycle,
something you don't have on a bicycles. As far as picking lines, it's about
the same.
-tom


Dear Tom,

I agree that pros with races on the line may corner harder
than we do, or that some of you (I can't say us) corner
harder on descents.

But most bicycling does not involve the kind of braking and
cornering that's routine on motorcycles because most
bicycling takes place at only 10 to 20 mph.

Armstrong averages all of 25 mph for the whole Tour.

Here's another way to look at it. Cornering is crucial on
the annual Pikes Peak hill climb. No one talks about Lance's
fantastic cornering skill in his lightning ascent at 16 mph
of the Alp d'Huez.

And if Armstrong came back down the same road at speed, he
might be doing some impressive cornering, but he'd have
considerably less braking to do into each corner than a
racer on a motorcycle, whose engine would let it pass on the
straights.

Carl Fogel

On Mon, 30 Aug 2004 14:10:33 -0700, "Tom Nakashima"
wrote:


wrote in message
.. .

Cornering isn't terribly important on bicycles, despite our
proud claims to the contrary. You don't hear much about
Lance Armstrong out-cornering the competition because
bicycling is mostly slow-motion drag-racing. We usually
pedal around at speeds so low that we wouldn't catch the eye
of a traffic cop running a speed trap in a school zone.
Carl Fogel

Cornering isn't terribly important on bicycles?
Have to disagree, and you may too if you've ever been in fast descents on a
bicycle, where picking your line is important. I'm not sure if you remember
the 1997 Tour de France when Richard Virenque was trying to put Jan Ullrich
at great risk in the corners on one of the mountain states. The roads were
wet and slick as Jan had pretty poor descending skills in the rain.
Virenque knew this and took advantage of his winter training in the French
alps. Ullrich nearly crashed and could have changed the outcome of the
finish of the Tour, but he played it safe and let Richard have his day.
Ulrich went on to win the Tour and the rest is history.

I ride both, motorcycles, and bicycles, and ride them fast in the corners if
I'm familiar with the road, or can visibly see the road ahead.
Cornering on a motorcycle and cornering on a bicycle are two different
things. Throttle plays an important role in corning on a motorcycle,
something you don't have on a bicycles. As far as picking lines, it's about
the same.
-tom


Dear Tom,

I agree that pros with races on the line may corner harder
than we do, or that some of you (I can't say us) corner
harder on descents.

But most bicycling does not involve the kind of braking and
cornering that's routine on motorcycles because most
bicycling takes place at only 10 to 20 mph.

Armstrong averages all of 25 mph for the whole Tour.

Here's another way to look at it. Cornering is crucial on
the annual Pikes Peak hill climb. No one talks about Lance's
fantastic cornering skill in his lightning ascent at 16 mph
of the Alp d'Huez.

And if Armstrong came back down the same road at speed, he
might be doing some impressive cornering, but he'd have
considerably less braking to do into each corner than a
racer on a motorcycle, whose engine would let it pass on the
straights.

Carl Fogel

wrote:

I agree that pros with races on the line may corner harder
than we do, or that some of you (I can't say us) corner
harder on descents.

But most bicycling does not involve the kind of braking and
cornering that's routine on motorcycles because most
bicycling takes place at only 10 to 20 mph.

That just means that "hard cornering" occurs at a smaller turning radius,
so this is only true if you're talking about bicycles and motorcycles
riding on the same or similar course (and perhaps you are; I'm just jumping
in at random )

--
Benjamin Lewis

Don't stop to stomp ants when the elephants are stampeding.

wrote:

I agree that pros with races on the line may corner harder
than we do, or that some of you (I can't say us) corner
harder on descents.

But most bicycling does not involve the kind of braking and
cornering that's routine on motorcycles because most
bicycling takes place at only 10 to 20 mph.

That just means that "hard cornering" occurs at a smaller turning radius,
so this is only true if you're talking about bicycles and motorcycles
riding on the same or similar course (and perhaps you are; I'm just jumping
in at random )

--
Benjamin Lewis

Don't stop to stomp ants when the elephants are stampeding.

dw said...

Do the 2-wheel skills go along when you use a metal motor?

I've logged over 60,000 miles on motorcycles and logged more than most
people on bikes. There are some similarities and some skills that
transfer, but there are some important differences and some habits that
you may have on a bicycle could be disaster on a motorcycle. The most
likely time to have an accident on a motorcycle is when moving at slow
speeds. True, you won't get splattered at very low speeds, but damage to
the bike and less than life threatening injuries to you are no fun
either. Motorcycles are extremely clumsy at slow speeds. You must
balance them perfectly, and use all of your skills and attention to keep
them perpendicular. You can't slouch around like you can on a bike at
slow speeds, because it is bigger than you are and if it starts going
over, you may not be able to stop it. All of this is related to the
weight of motorcycles, which is profoundly different than bicycles.

Another big difference is power. Motorcycles are amazingly quick and
powerful, even the supposedly slow big hogs. You can't compare the
interplay of power and two-wheels to anything else. That is what makes
motorcycles motorcycles. It is a whole new skill set that must be
learned. Motorcycles also have a control set that is unique, and even
different motorcycles may have slightly different control
configurations. The rider must become very skillful in the use of these
controls in a very short time. I recommend going out onto the lowest
traffic road you can find and practice starting, stopping, shifting,
downshifting and emergency stops. Do it until you are sick of it. It may
very well save your life.

Having said all that, if the fledgling rider survives the learning
curve, motorcycles are an enjoyable and reasonably safe way to travel.
Last but not least beware of the fact that what seems like a warm
temperature may be too cold to comfortably ride a motorcycle. When the
sun sets on a summer day, it may be almost unbearably cold traveling at
speed on a motorcycle without a jacket and long pants.

dw said...

Do the 2-wheel skills go along when you use a metal motor?

I've logged over 60,000 miles on motorcycles and logged more than most
people on bikes. There are some similarities and some skills that
transfer, but there are some important differences and some habits that
you may have on a bicycle could be disaster on a motorcycle. The most
likely time to have an accident on a motorcycle is when moving at slow
speeds. True, you won't get splattered at very low speeds, but damage to
the bike and less than life threatening injuries to you are no fun
either. Motorcycles are extremely clumsy at slow speeds. You must
balance them perfectly, and use all of your skills and attention to keep
them perpendicular. You can't slouch around like you can on a bike at
slow speeds, because it is bigger than you are and if it starts going
over, you may not be able to stop it. All of this is related to the
weight of motorcycles, which is profoundly different than bicycles.

Another big difference is power. Motorcycles are amazingly quick and
powerful, even the supposedly slow big hogs. You can't compare the
interplay of power and two-wheels to anything else. That is what makes
motorcycles motorcycles. It is a whole new skill set that must be
learned. Motorcycles also have a control set that is unique, and even
different motorcycles may have slightly different control
configurations. The rider must become very skillful in the use of these
controls in a very short time. I recommend going out onto the lowest
traffic road you can find and practice starting, stopping, shifting,
downshifting and emergency stops. Do it until you are sick of it. It may
very well save your life.

Having said all that, if the fledgling rider survives the learning
curve, motorcycles are an enjoyable and reasonably safe way to travel.
Last but not least beware of the fact that what seems like a warm
temperature may be too cold to comfortably ride a motorcycle. When the
sun sets on a summer day, it may be almost unbearably cold traveling at
speed on a motorcycle without a jacket and long pants.

On 30 Aug 2004 15:33:05 -0700, (Eric Lambi) wrote:

Do the 2-wheel skills go along when you use a metal motor?

If I'm any indication, the answer is no. And I've raced a couple
hundred crits in my lifetime.

Check me if I'm wrong here, but cycling our main priority through a corner is to
maintain momentum. We've got these feeble 1/2 HP motors. With any motorsport the
idea is more often to get through the corner in the way that best sets you up to
power out of it.

Ron

On 30 Aug 2004 15:33:05 -0700, (Eric Lambi) wrote:

Do the 2-wheel skills go along when you use a metal motor?

If I'm any indication, the answer is no. And I've raced a couple
hundred crits in my lifetime.

Check me if I'm wrong here, but cycling our main priority through a corner is to
maintain momentum. We've got these feeble 1/2 HP motors. With any motorsport the
idea is more often to get through the corner in the way that best sets you up to
power out of it.

Ron

On Mon, 30 Aug 2004 16:13:46 -0700, Benjamin Lewis
wrote:

wrote:

I agree that pros with races on the line may corner harder
than we do, or that some of you (I can't say us) corner
harder on descents.

But most bicycling does not involve the kind of braking and
cornering that's routine on motorcycles because most
bicycling takes place at only 10 to 20 mph.

That just means that "hard cornering" occurs at a smaller turning radius,
so this is only true if you're talking about bicycles and motorcycles
riding on the same or similar course (and perhaps you are; I'm just jumping
in at random )

Dear Benjamin,

True, I'm assuming similar courses.

But the speed of most bicycle riding is limited not by the
curves, but by the feeble motors. I doubt, for example, that
Armstrong got up the Alp d'Huez that fast because of his
cornering technique.

Apart from one-way downhills, are there any bicycle races in
which cornering is the deciding factor? That is, races in
which riders who are roughly as fast on the straights are
helpless to keep up because they corner too slowly?

I know little about bicycle racing, so I'm curious if I'm
missing something here. I certainly don't see much about
cornering here on rec.bicycles.tech.

Carl Fogel