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Hazard on the roads and trails for bicyclists



 
 
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  #1  
Old July 16th 17, 04:21 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Sir Ridesalot
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Posts: 5,270
Default Hazard on the roads and trails for bicyclists

A number oftimes in the last couple of months I've noticed extremely dangerous riding by these newfangled electric scooter/bike riders. In our area these are NOT allowed on the park trails or multi-use paths yet many electric bike operators zoom along at quite a high speed compared to the average pedal powered bicycle rider. Add in the fact that these electric bikes are nearly silent and you have an increasingly hazaradous thing to try and avoid. what makes it really bad is that these things don't need to be licensed and it seems that most of the ones riding them have no idea what the rules of the road are for them and/or where they're allowedto ride them.

Be aware of these things lest one day they give you that run down feeling.

I wonder if eventually electric bikes and their rider will have to licensed?

Cheers
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  #2  
Old July 16th 17, 04:32 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Frank Krygowski[_4_]
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Posts: 10,538
Default Hazard on the roads and trails for bicyclists

On 7/15/2017 11:21 PM, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
A number oftimes in the last couple of months I've noticed extremely dangerous riding by these newfangled electric scooter/bike riders. In our area these are NOT allowed on the park trails or multi-use paths yet many electric bike operators zoom along at quite a high speed compared to the average pedal powered bicycle rider. Add in the fact that these electric bikes are nearly silent and you have an increasingly hazaradous thing to try and avoid. what makes it really bad is that these things don't need to be licensed and it seems that most of the ones riding them have no idea what the rules of the road are for them and/or where they're allowedto ride them.

Be aware of these things lest one day they give you that run down feeling.

I wonder if eventually electric bikes and their rider will have to licensed?


I agree that these things are going to be yet another difficult
complication on our road systems.

The cycling industry is lobbying hard to get favorable legislation for
electric assist bikes. They seem to see this as a huge potential market,
and I think they're correct. (The upscale bike shop I visited
yesterday, in a big city, had the electric bikes on the prominent "right
inside the door" display.) These things will let lazy people look
athletic and "green" without sweating much.

But I can envision lots of low skill riders cranking along at about 20
mph, riding facing traffic, passing cyclists without warning, speeding
on MUPs, sliding out on turns, etc.

Of course, they'll also be a boon to experienced and competent cyclists
who are suffering the ravages of age. I have a couple friends like that
who are definitely interested.

We'll see how it works out. But I'm not entirely optimistic.


--
- Frank Krygowski
  #3  
Old July 16th 17, 06:27 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Sir Ridesalot
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Posts: 5,270
Default Hazard on the roads and trails for bicyclists

On Saturday, July 15, 2017 at 11:32:18 PM UTC-4, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 7/15/2017 11:21 PM, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
A number oftimes in the last couple of months I've noticed extremely dangerous riding by these newfangled electric scooter/bike riders. In our area these are NOT allowed on the park trails or multi-use paths yet many electric bike operators zoom along at quite a high speed compared to the average pedal powered bicycle rider. Add in the fact that these electric bikes are nearly silent and you have an increasingly hazaradous thing to try and avoid. what makes it really bad is that these things don't need to be licensed and it seems that most of the ones riding them have no idea what the rules of the road are for them and/or where they're allowedto ride them.

Be aware of these things lest one day they give you that run down feeling.

I wonder if eventually electric bikes and their rider will have to licensed?


I agree that these things are going to be yet another difficult
complication on our road systems.

The cycling industry is lobbying hard to get favorable legislation for
electric assist bikes. They seem to see this as a huge potential market,
and I think they're correct. (The upscale bike shop I visited
yesterday, in a big city, had the electric bikes on the prominent "right
inside the door" display.) These things will let lazy people look
athletic and "green" without sweating much.

But I can envision lots of low skill riders cranking along at about 20
mph, riding facing traffic, passing cyclists without warning, speeding
on MUPs, sliding out on turns, etc.

Of course, they'll also be a boon to experienced and competent cyclists
who are suffering the ravages of age. I have a couple friends like that
who are definitely interested.

We'll see how it works out. But I'm not entirely optimistic.


--
- Frank Krygowski


What has me concerned are the electric bikes/scooters that do NOT have pedals; in other words they're NOT electric assisted bicycles but electric motorized bikes. Too many times the people I see riding them have no idea whatthe traffic laws are, they ride them on prohibited paths, and they ride at a high rate of speed where there are extremely poor sight lines. In the park I rode through yesterday a guy on a purely electric scooter (2-wheeler) was bombing through even though there are many signs posted stating no motorized vehicles allowed. that means electric bikes too. This guy had no consideration that there might be little children around the next bend that he could not see yet the was going at a high rate of speed. It seems to me that it's only a matter of timet before one of these reckless e-bike (no pedals) riders seriously hurts someone or gets themselves injured severely or killed in traffic because they fail to follow the rules of the road or exhibit plain old common sense when riding.

Cheers
  #4  
Old July 16th 17, 09:16 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
John B.[_3_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 5,697
Default Hazard on the roads and trails for bicyclists

On Sat, 15 Jul 2017 20:21:44 -0700 (PDT), Sir Ridesalot
wrote:

A number oftimes in the last couple of months I've noticed extremely dangerous riding by these newfangled electric scooter/bike riders. In our area these are NOT allowed on the park trails or multi-use paths yet many electric bike operators zoom along at quite a high speed compared to the average pedal powered bicycle rider. Add in the fact that these electric bikes are nearly silent and you have an increasingly hazaradous thing to try and avoid. what makes it really bad is that these things don't need to be licensed and it seems that most of the ones riding them have no idea what the rules of the road are for them and/or where they're allowedto ride them.

Be aware of these things lest one day they give you that run down feeling.

I wonder if eventually electric bikes and their rider will have to licensed?

Cheers


I believe that Singapore has recently promulgated rules for electric
powered bicycles.

1. Must be at least 16 years old, both rider and pillion passenger.
Helmet must be worn.

2. Electric bikes are allowed on roads, and cycling or shared paths,
but not on footpaths.

3. Maximum speed is 25kmh.

4. Maximum continuous power output must not exceed 250 watts
Note: First-time offenders who illegally modify e-bikes currently face
a fine of up to $2,000 or jail for up to three months, under the Road
Traffic Act.

5. Motor power should kick in only when rider starts to pedal
Note: LTA issued 1,433 summonses over the sale or use of non-compliant
e-bikes between January and September 2016.

6. Weight of e-bikes cannot exceed 20kg

7. All e-bikes must have an LTA approval seal
--
Cheers,

John B.

  #5  
Old July 16th 17, 09:28 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
John B.[_3_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 5,697
Default Hazard on the roads and trails for bicyclists

On Sat, 15 Jul 2017 23:32:11 -0400, Frank Krygowski
wrote:

On 7/15/2017 11:21 PM, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
A number oftimes in the last couple of months I've noticed extremely dangerous riding by these newfangled electric scooter/bike riders. In our area these are NOT allowed on the park trails or multi-use paths yet many electric bike operators zoom along at quite a high speed compared to the average pedal powered bicycle rider. Add in the fact that these electric bikes are nearly silent and you have an increasingly hazaradous thing to try and avoid. what makes it really bad is that these things don't need to be licensed and it seems that most of the ones riding them have no idea what the rules of the road are for them and/or where they're allowedto ride them.

Be aware of these things lest one day they give you that run down feeling.

I wonder if eventually electric bikes and their rider will have to licensed?


I agree that these things are going to be yet another difficult
complication on our road systems.

The cycling industry is lobbying hard to get favorable legislation for
electric assist bikes. They seem to see this as a huge potential market,
and I think they're correct. (The upscale bike shop I visited
yesterday, in a big city, had the electric bikes on the prominent "right
inside the door" display.) These things will let lazy people look
athletic and "green" without sweating much.

But I can envision lots of low skill riders cranking along at about 20
mph, riding facing traffic, passing cyclists without warning, speeding
on MUPs, sliding out on turns, etc.

Of course, they'll also be a boon to experienced and competent cyclists
who are suffering the ravages of age. I have a couple friends like that
who are definitely interested.

We'll see how it works out. But I'm not entirely optimistic.


Apparently e-bikes are becoming popular in Singapore (with a
population of ~5.5 million) as a means of transportation. They are
referred to as "personal mobility devices" there.

Singapore is super law abiding but as of the end of 2016,
The Land Transport Authority, in November 2016, said it had issued
more than 860 advisories to people found riding bicycles, e-bikes and
other PMDs dangerously on footpaths and cycling paths.

The LTA issued 1,433 summonses over the sale or use of non-compliant
e-bikes between January and September 2016.
--
Cheers,

John B.

  #6  
Old July 16th 17, 10:59 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Ned Mantei[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 81
Default Hazard on the roads and trails for bicyclists

On 16-07-17 05:21, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
A number oftimes in the last couple of months I've noticed extremely dangerous riding by these newfangled electric scooter/bike riders. In our area these are NOT allowed on the park trails or multi-use paths yet many electric bike operators zoom along at quite a high speed compared to the average pedal powered bicycle rider. Add in the fact that these electric bikes are nearly silent and you have an increasingly hazaradous thing to try and avoid. what makes it really bad is that these things don't need to be licensed and it seems that most of the ones riding them have no idea what the rules of the road are for them and/or where they're allowedto ride them.

Be aware of these things lest one day they give you that run down feeling.

I wonder if eventually electric bikes and their rider will have to licensed?

Cheers


Here in Switzerland the law recognizes two kinds of E-bikes. Those that
have a maximum speed of 25 km/hr (≈15 mph) are more or less just
bicycles, and are allowed on bike paths, etc. Those that can do 40 km/hr
(≈25 mph) are considered equivalent to a 50 cc motorbike ("Mofa" in
everyday German. See https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mofa for a few
pictures). The faster E-bikes need to have the same license plate as a
classical motorbike, and are subject to the same rules of the road.

A special driver's license is needed for riders of the faster E-bikes,
and the rider must be at least 16 years old. A license is also needed
for the slower bikes for riders between 14 and 16 years old.

A federal accident prevention program sponsors billboards asking, "Do
you have your E-bike under control?", but these are directed at old,
probably first-time riders. And then there are the people who just ride
at dangerous speeds and pass without warning on narrow trails. Maybe
they are the same ones who drive their cars at 60 km/hour in the 30
km/hr zone of a residential street.

Ned
  #7  
Old July 16th 17, 01:50 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Duane[_4_]
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Posts: 1,546
Default Hazard on the roads and trails for bicyclists

Sir Ridesalot wrote:
On Saturday, July 15, 2017 at 11:32:18 PM UTC-4, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 7/15/2017 11:21 PM, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
A number oftimes in the last couple of months I've noticed extremely
dangerous riding by these newfangled electric scooter/bike riders. In
our area these are NOT allowed on the park trails or multi-use paths
yet many electric bike operators zoom along at quite a high speed
compared to the average pedal powered bicycle rider. Add in the fact
that these electric bikes are nearly silent and you have an
increasingly hazaradous thing to try and avoid. what makes it really
bad is that these things don't need to be licensed and it seems that
most of the ones riding them have no idea what the rules of the road
are for them and/or where they're allowedto ride them.

Be aware of these things lest one day they give you that run down feeling.

I wonder if eventually electric bikes and their rider will have to licensed?


I agree that these things are going to be yet another difficult
complication on our road systems.

The cycling industry is lobbying hard to get favorable legislation for
electric assist bikes. They seem to see this as a huge potential market,
and I think they're correct. (The upscale bike shop I visited
yesterday, in a big city, had the electric bikes on the prominent "right
inside the door" display.) These things will let lazy people look
athletic and "green" without sweating much.

But I can envision lots of low skill riders cranking along at about 20
mph, riding facing traffic, passing cyclists without warning, speeding
on MUPs, sliding out on turns, etc.

Of course, they'll also be a boon to experienced and competent cyclists
who are suffering the ravages of age. I have a couple friends like that
who are definitely interested.

We'll see how it works out. But I'm not entirely optimistic.


--
- Frank Krygowski


What has me concerned are the electric bikes/scooters that do NOT have
pedals; in other words they're NOT electric assisted bicycles but
electric motorized bikes. Too many times the people I see riding them
have no idea whatthe traffic laws are, they ride them on prohibited
paths, and they ride at a high rate of speed where there are extremely
poor sight lines. In the park I rode through yesterday a guy on a purely
electric scooter (2-wheeler) was bombing through even though there are
many signs posted stating no motorized vehicles allowed. that means
electric bikes too. This guy had no consideration that there might be
little children around the next bend that he could not see yet the was
going at a high rate of speed. It seems to me that it's only a matter of
timet before one of these reckless e-bike (no pedals) riders seriously
hurts someone or gets themselves injured severely or killed in traffic
because they fail to follow the rules of the road or exhibit plain old
common sense when riding.

Cheers


I see them here in Montreal too. Often they are people with handicaps but
not always. I avoid these paths, not because they're dangerous but because
the speed limit is 20k/h. These scooters don't seem to be bothered by the
speed limit and the cops don't seem to want to ticket them. There's one
that I used to take on my commute because it was empty and I could avoid
traffic. But I was stopped and warned so now I take the road with the
traffic.

--
duane
  #8  
Old July 16th 17, 04:13 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Sir Ridesalot
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 5,270
Default Hazard on the roads and trails for bicyclists

On Sunday, July 16, 2017 at 8:54:53 AM UTC-4, Duane wrote:
Sir Ridesalot wrote:
On Saturday, July 15, 2017 at 11:32:18 PM UTC-4, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 7/15/2017 11:21 PM, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
A number oftimes in the last couple of months I've noticed extremely
dangerous riding by these newfangled electric scooter/bike riders. In
our area these are NOT allowed on the park trails or multi-use paths
yet many electric bike operators zoom along at quite a high speed
compared to the average pedal powered bicycle rider. Add in the fact
that these electric bikes are nearly silent and you have an
increasingly hazaradous thing to try and avoid. what makes it really
bad is that these things don't need to be licensed and it seems that
most of the ones riding them have no idea what the rules of the road
are for them and/or where they're allowedto ride them.

Be aware of these things lest one day they give you that run down feeling.

I wonder if eventually electric bikes and their rider will have to licensed?

I agree that these things are going to be yet another difficult
complication on our road systems.

The cycling industry is lobbying hard to get favorable legislation for
electric assist bikes. They seem to see this as a huge potential market,
and I think they're correct. (The upscale bike shop I visited
yesterday, in a big city, had the electric bikes on the prominent "right
inside the door" display.) These things will let lazy people look
athletic and "green" without sweating much.

But I can envision lots of low skill riders cranking along at about 20
mph, riding facing traffic, passing cyclists without warning, speeding
on MUPs, sliding out on turns, etc.

Of course, they'll also be a boon to experienced and competent cyclists
who are suffering the ravages of age. I have a couple friends like that
who are definitely interested.

We'll see how it works out. But I'm not entirely optimistic.


--
- Frank Krygowski


What has me concerned are the electric bikes/scooters that do NOT have
pedals; in other words they're NOT electric assisted bicycles but
electric motorized bikes. Too many times the people I see riding them
have no idea whatthe traffic laws are, they ride them on prohibited
paths, and they ride at a high rate of speed where there are extremely
poor sight lines. In the park I rode through yesterday a guy on a purely
electric scooter (2-wheeler) was bombing through even though there are
many signs posted stating no motorized vehicles allowed. that means
electric bikes too. This guy had no consideration that there might be
little children around the next bend that he could not see yet the was
going at a high rate of speed. It seems to me that it's only a matter of
timet before one of these reckless e-bike (no pedals) riders seriously
hurts someone or gets themselves injured severely or killed in traffic
because they fail to follow the rules of the road or exhibit plain old
common sense when riding.

Cheers


I see them here in Montreal too. Often they are people with handicaps but
not always. I avoid these paths, not because they're dangerous but because
the speed limit is 20k/h. These scooters don't seem to be bothered by the
speed limit and the cops don't seem to want to ticket them. There's one
that I used to take on my commute because it was empty and I could avoid
traffic. But I was stopped and warned so now I take the road with the
traffic.

--
duane


When I lived in Toronto (Canada) they paved the walking trails in a park system that stretched from Bayview Avenue over to Warden Avenue. I used to use it for my commute home in the evening. Then they limited the speed to 20 kph (12.5 mph) AND installed speed bumps on those paved paths. In the evening the paths were empty but I could not ride at any beneficial speed so I too returned to the busy roads.

BTW, when I say electric scooters I'm thinking of 2 wheeled scooters that do not have pedals. Like you said many (most) of their riders will pass illegally on the right on a road with just one lane of traffic in each direction, will ride on pathways where they are prohibited by law or bylaw and generally ride in a very unsafe manner for everyone one else on the roads. They're like those daring Ninja bicyclists but the problem with these electric scooters is that they re very fast asnd silent compared to some guy (or girl) on a regular bicycle.

I can se a time coming when the public will be demanding that these things be treated as a m otorized vehicle and therefore require a license both for the scooter and the rider. Their numbers are increasing by a lot and they are creating a real hazard on the roads and the park pathways and on the rail-trails hereabouts.

Cheers
  #9  
Old July 16th 17, 07:41 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Jeff Liebermann
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 4,018
Default Hazard on the roads and trails for bicyclists

On Sat, 15 Jul 2017 20:21:44 -0700 (PDT), Sir Ridesalot
wrote:

I wonder if eventually electric bikes and their rider will have to licensed?
Cheers


California just passed a law concerning eBikes:
https://www.electricbike.com/california-ebike-laws/
"If you are using PAS (applying power that is actuated
by pedaling), you can legally have power up to 28-MPH
(45-km/h). But, if you like a hand-throttle, you can
only legally apply power on a street ebike up to
20-MPH (32-km/h)"

I can see various reasons for licensing eBikes, none of which are
particularly compelling at this time. Mandatory registration will
probably come first as the most important reason for licensing is
generating revenue for the city, county, or state. Licensing to
insure competence and apply some safety requirements will appear only
after there are some regrettable incidents to high profile dignitaries
or their relatives. At best, it might be required to view an online
course in eBike safety, followed by a short quiz, before you can print
your eBike license. If there are going to be any ordinances, my
guess(tm) is that it will somewhat follow the current ordinances
against using Segways and Hoverboards on the sidewalks.

Whether any of this will have an effect on trail and MUP safety is
debatable. I think not because there will probably not be any
additional funding for enforcement. Somehow, I don't see the police
or volunteers monitoring trails and MUP's for violations.

--
Jeff Liebermann
150 Felker St #D
http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558
  #10  
Old July 17th 17, 01:45 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
John B.[_3_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 5,697
Default Hazard on the roads and trails for bicyclists

On Sun, 16 Jul 2017 12:50:54 -0000 (UTC), Duane
wrote:

Sir Ridesalot wrote:
On Saturday, July 15, 2017 at 11:32:18 PM UTC-4, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 7/15/2017 11:21 PM, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
A number oftimes in the last couple of months I've noticed extremely
dangerous riding by these newfangled electric scooter/bike riders. In
our area these are NOT allowed on the park trails or multi-use paths
yet many electric bike operators zoom along at quite a high speed
compared to the average pedal powered bicycle rider. Add in the fact
that these electric bikes are nearly silent and you have an
increasingly hazaradous thing to try and avoid. what makes it really
bad is that these things don't need to be licensed and it seems that
most of the ones riding them have no idea what the rules of the road
are for them and/or where they're allowedto ride them.

Be aware of these things lest one day they give you that run down feeling.

I wonder if eventually electric bikes and their rider will have to licensed?

I agree that these things are going to be yet another difficult
complication on our road systems.

The cycling industry is lobbying hard to get favorable legislation for
electric assist bikes. They seem to see this as a huge potential market,
and I think they're correct. (The upscale bike shop I visited
yesterday, in a big city, had the electric bikes on the prominent "right
inside the door" display.) These things will let lazy people look
athletic and "green" without sweating much.

But I can envision lots of low skill riders cranking along at about 20
mph, riding facing traffic, passing cyclists without warning, speeding
on MUPs, sliding out on turns, etc.

Of course, they'll also be a boon to experienced and competent cyclists
who are suffering the ravages of age. I have a couple friends like that
who are definitely interested.

We'll see how it works out. But I'm not entirely optimistic.


--
- Frank Krygowski


What has me concerned are the electric bikes/scooters that do NOT have
pedals; in other words they're NOT electric assisted bicycles but
electric motorized bikes. Too many times the people I see riding them
have no idea whatthe traffic laws are, they ride them on prohibited
paths, and they ride at a high rate of speed where there are extremely
poor sight lines. In the park I rode through yesterday a guy on a purely
electric scooter (2-wheeler) was bombing through even though there are
many signs posted stating no motorized vehicles allowed. that means
electric bikes too. This guy had no consideration that there might be
little children around the next bend that he could not see yet the was
going at a high rate of speed. It seems to me that it's only a matter of
timet before one of these reckless e-bike (no pedals) riders seriously
hurts someone or gets themselves injured severely or killed in traffic
because they fail to follow the rules of the road or exhibit plain old
common sense when riding.

Cheers


I see them here in Montreal too. Often they are people with handicaps but
not always. I avoid these paths, not because they're dangerous but because
the speed limit is 20k/h. These scooters don't seem to be bothered by the
speed limit and the cops don't seem to want to ticket them. There's one
that I used to take on my commute because it was empty and I could avoid
traffic. But I was stopped and warned so now I take the road with the
traffic.


In Singapore, where they seem to have some sort of fetish about
obeying laws, one cannot ride a bicycle, an e-bike or a PMD on a
public path that is a pedestrian-only path, and can be fined up to
S$1,000 or jailed up to three months or punished with both for doing
so. The penalty will be doubled for repeat offenders.
--
Cheers,

John B.

 




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