NYC ticket technicalities - no signature

I got a ticket in NYC today for running a red light. Well, actually
it was for stopping on the wrong side of the crosswalk, and I didn't
actually run the light. Whatever. It's still $100.

I'm wondering if the fact that I didn't sign the ticket (nor was I
asked to) means that I can just ignore it. The place where I would
have been asked to sign reads "I acknowledge receipt of this summons.
I understand it is my responsibility to read and comply with the
instructions on my copy, and that my signature below is not an
admission of guilt."

If I ignore it, and it doesn't have my signature, can I plausibly
claim to have never received it? I feel like if I plead not guilty it
will be an admission that I did, in fact, receive the ticket, and in
that case would I stil be able to argue at the hearing that the lack
of signature nullifies the ticket?

(Also, under "Complainant's Full Name (printed)," there's just a
scrawled last name, no full name, but that seems minor enough that
it's not even worth bringing up.)

Thanks for any advice.

From somewhere in cyberspace, somebody said:

I got a ticket in NYC today for running a red light. Well, actually
it was for stopping on the wrong side of the crosswalk, and I didn't
actually run the light. Whatever. It's still $100.

Where and when did this happen? Was there anything else going on
that called the cops attention to you, or were they just waiting for
unwary cyclists to hassle?

I'm wondering if the fact that I didn't sign the ticket (nor was I
asked to) means that I can just ignore it.

If you gave them your real name and address, ignoring it is not an option.
You will eventually end up in traffic court and the cop will say he
recognizes you as the person who committed the violation, and that will
be good enough for the judge.
--
eravin@ | Grief can take care of itself; but to get the full
panix.com | value of a joy you must have somebody to divide it with.
| -- Mark Twain

Ed Ravin wrote:
From somewhere in cyberspace, somebody said:
I got a ticket in NYC today for running a red light. Well, actually
it was for stopping on the wrong side of the crosswalk, and I didn't
actually run the light. Whatever. It's still $100.

Where and when did this happen? Was there anything else going on
that called the cops attention to you, or were they just waiting for
unwary cyclists to hassle?

This morning, at 6th Avenue and 40th Street. The cop was in one of
those little white carts. Nothing else was going on; I just stopped
on the wrong side of the crosswalk.

If you gave them your real name and address, ignoring it is not an option.
You will eventually end up in traffic court and the cop will say he
recognizes you as the person who committed the violation, and that will
be good enough for the judge.

Thanks for the advice.

Right. It's a little known fact that, even with Murder 1, if you don't
sign that little acknowledgement, you're home free. Otherwise, it's the
chair.

"somebody" wrote in message
...

I got a ticket in NYC today for running a red light. Well, actually
it was for stopping on the wrong side of the crosswalk, and I didn't
actually run the light. Whatever. It's still $100.

I'm wondering if the fact that I didn't sign the ticket (nor was I
asked to) means that I can just ignore it. The place where I would
have been asked to sign reads "I acknowledge receipt of this summons.
I understand it is my responsibility to read and comply with the
instructions on my copy, and that my signature below is not an
admission of guilt."

If I ignore it, and it doesn't have my signature, can I plausibly
claim to have never received it? I feel like if I plead not guilty it
will be an admission that I did, in fact, receive the ticket, and in
that case would I stil be able to argue at the hearing that the lack
of signature nullifies the ticket?

(Also, under "Complainant's Full Name (printed)," there's just a
scrawled last name, no full name, but that seems minor enough that
it's not even worth bringing up.)

Thanks for any advice.

On 8 Jan 2004 17:00:29 GMT in rec.bicycles.misc, somebody
wrote:

If I ignore it, and it doesn't have my signature, can I plausibly
claim to have never received it? I feel like if I plead not guilty it
will be an admission that I did, in fact, receive the ticket, and in
that case would I stil be able to argue at the hearing that the lack
of signature nullifies the ticket?

(Also, under "Complainant's Full Name (printed)," there's just a
scrawled last name, no full name, but that seems minor enough that
it's not even worth bringing up.)

well, that depends on how much info they have on you. did you
show the cop any ID? if they don't have your name and address,
how would they identify or find you?

Thanks for any advice.

sorry, can't do that. only a lawyer can do that without
violating the law. if you're really worried, you should talk to
an attorney knowledgable in bicycle and traffic issues.

In article ,
says...
On 8 Jan 2004 17:00:29 GMT in rec.bicycles.misc, somebody
wrote:

If I ignore it, and it doesn't have my signature, can I plausibly
claim to have never received it? I feel like if I plead not guilty it
will be an admission that I did, in fact, receive the ticket, and in
that case would I stil be able to argue at the hearing that the lack
of signature nullifies the ticket?

(Also, under "Complainant's Full Name (printed)," there's just a
scrawled last name, no full name, but that seems minor enough that
it's not even worth bringing up.)

well, that depends on how much info they have on you. did you
show the cop any ID? if they don't have your name and address,
how would they identify or find you?

Thanks for any advice.

sorry, can't do that. only a lawyer can do that without
violating the law.

Not true; we can give any advice we want without violating any laws.
It's just that he'd be stupid to take it without further research or
competent legal advice GGG.


--
Dave Kerber
Fight spam: remove the ns_ from the return address before replying!

REAL programmers write self-modifying code.

On Fri, 9 Jan 2004 08:40:11 -0500, David Kerber
wrote:

In article ,
says...
On 8 Jan 2004 17:00:29 GMT in rec.bicycles.misc, somebody
wrote:

If I ignore it, and it doesn't have my signature, can I plausibly
claim to have never received it? I feel like if I plead not guilty it
will be an admission that I did, in fact, receive the ticket, and in
that case would I stil be able to argue at the hearing that the lack
of signature nullifies the ticket?

(Also, under "Complainant's Full Name (printed)," there's just a
scrawled last name, no full name, but that seems minor enough that
it's not even worth bringing up.)

well, that depends on how much info they have on you. did you
show the cop any ID? if they don't have your name and address,
how would they identify or find you?

Thanks for any advice.

sorry, can't do that. only a lawyer can do that without
violating the law.

Not true; we can give any advice we want without violating any laws.
It's just that he'd be stupid to take it without further research or
competent legal advice GGG.

Guys, guys, can't we just give the 'right'(tm) answer?

Nobody's self-esteem, sense of what's right, not to mention the 'look
over your shoulder factor', is worth the paltry sum of $100 bucks.

I say take the ticket to the precinct, get the officer to meet with
you, give him a donation to the police benevolent fund and ask him to
help you get your ticket completed so you don't show up in court and
find you're not on the docket.

After he's completed your ticket, tell him he's a great guy and the
most friendly and professional LEO you ever had to deal with, and that
was 1, him, since you've never had a ticket before in newyork (on your
bike). Then say have a good one, and walk out jauntily, a song in your
step and a lilt in your voice. Er, or the converse. ;-)

HTH,

-B

somebody

trolled in part:

If I ignore it, and it doesn't have my signature, can I plausibly
claim to have never received it?

You'd make this claim to who and under what circumstances? To a judge in court?
That supposes that you'll end up in court somehow, possibly when you get
stopped by the police again and the officer discovers that an arrest warrant
was issued for you for failing to appear in court originally.
The answer is simple. Either you opt to go to court on a date you know about in
advance and so can adjust your schedule accordingly or you choose Option B, one
of never knowing when you'll be stopped by the police for another minor
infraction and get whisked off to jail for a bond hearing at the court's
convenience. It seems a simple choice to me.
Of course, you *could* be intending to make the argument "I never got any such
summons" to the next police officer that stops you when he discovers the
warrant for your arrest. Yeah... that will work. I let subjects wanted on
warrants go all the time if they tell me they didn't do it because it's a well
known fact that people *never* lie to the police.

Regards,
Bob Hunt

somebody wrote in message ...
I got a ticket in NYC today for running a red light. Well, actually
it was for stopping on the wrong side of the crosswalk, and I didn't
actually run the light. Whatever. It's still $100.

I'm wondering if the fact that I didn't sign the ticket (nor was I
asked to) means that I can just ignore it. The place where I would
have been asked to sign reads "I acknowledge receipt of this summons.
I understand it is my responsibility to read and comply with the
instructions on my copy, and that my signature below is not an
admission of guilt."

If I ignore it, and it doesn't have my signature, can I plausibly
claim to have never received it? I feel like if I plead not guilty it
will be an admission that I did, in fact, receive the ticket, and in
that case would I stil be able to argue at the hearing that the lack
of signature nullifies the ticket?

(Also, under "Complainant's Full Name (printed)," there's just a
scrawled last name, no full name, but that seems minor enough that
it's not even worth bringing up.)

Thanks for any advice.

my understanding is that, technically, you're under arrest when
receiving a ticket and by signing, your are promising to appear and
are released OR. since you didn't sign, you've made no promise. of
course, some guy in a black robe may decide that your receipt of the
ticket is a de facto signature. chk around, it's easy to get free
real legal advise in a big city.
if i were you & no-showed, i'd chk to made sure it did not go to
warrant _after_ the speedy trial period for you local; you don't need
no surprises. (i knew this stuff better back in the murdercycle
dazes.)
so, how many people did you run over in the crosswalk?

What section of the Vehicle & Traffic Law or NYC Traffic Regulation was
cited in the summons?



On Thu, 08 Jan 2004 17:00:29 +0000, somebody wrote:


I got a ticket in NYC today for running a red light. Well, actually
it was for stopping on the wrong side of the crosswalk, and I didn't
actually run the light. Whatever. It's still $100.