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Before & after bike ghettos
On 10/19/2010 4:06 AM, Chalo wrote:
Peter Cole wrote: Go to Google Maps, get (bicycle) directions from downtown (say State Street) to Logan Airport. The route depicted does a better job than I could displaying the problem, especially if you "street view" some of the roads you'd be riding on. Far out. Goo-maps says 3.4 miles/8 minutes by car, 10.0 miles/59 minutes by bike. I don't doubt it, but that's really goofy. Understand that is typical for all the coast north of the city, south of the city is much the same. We live in very different worlds. Your "metro" areas have lower densities than my "leafy suburbs". It doesn't help that Boston area drivers are a bunch of counterproductive jerks, in my recent observation. Or that trying to go anywhere, by any means, in Boston can be an infuriatingly ineffectual process. Chalo I'm not sure which is cause and effect. Boston is tough because of geography (harbor & 3 rivers), colonial street layouts, and one of the least graceful highway overlays in the 50-60's motoring Great Leap Forward. In response, Boston developed a driving culture that is famously no holds barred, and has been awarded the worst cycling booby prize several times. It's no sun belt metropolis, nor neatly gridded Gotham. If there was a city that could be a US Amsterdam, it might well be Boston. |
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#2
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Before & after bike ghettos
"Peter Cole" wrote in message ...
On 10/19/2010 4:06 AM, Chalo wrote: Peter Cole wrote: I'm not sure which is cause and effect. Boston is tough because of geography (harbor & 3 rivers), colonial street layouts, and one of the least graceful highway overlays in the 50-60's motoring Great Leap Forward. In response, Boston developed a driving culture that is famously no holds barred, and has been awarded the worst cycling booby prize several times. It's no sun belt metropolis, nor neatly gridded Gotham. If there was a city that could be a US Amsterdam, it might well be Boston. I think that it's a combination of the way the streets are laid out coupled with the intense work drive that makes everyone in a hurry. New Orleans, for example, has the same sort of winding streets due to the crescent of the Mississippi river but the pace there is much slower. Of course, NOLA's stat of the most bars per capita offers its own problems with driving and cycling. |
#3
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Before & after bike ghettos
Peter Cole writes:
On 10/19/2010 4:06 AM, Chalo wrote: Peter Cole wrote: Go to Google Maps, get (bicycle) directions from downtown (say State Street) to Logan Airport. The route depicted does a better job than I could displaying the problem, especially if you "street view" some of the roads you'd be riding on. Far out. Goo-maps says 3.4 miles/8 minutes by car, 10.0 miles/59 minutes by bike. I don't doubt it, but that's really goofy. Understand that is typical for all the coast north of the city, south of the city is much the same. We live in very different worlds. Your "metro" areas have lower densities than my "leafy suburbs". It doesn't help that Boston area drivers are a bunch of counterproductive jerks, in my recent observation. Or that trying to go anywhere, by any means, in Boston can be an infuriatingly ineffectual process. Chalo I'm not sure which is cause and effect. Boston is tough because of geography (harbor & 3 rivers), colonial street layouts, and one of the least graceful highway overlays in the 50-60's motoring Great Leap Forward. In response, Boston developed a driving culture that is famously no holds barred, and has been awarded the worst cycling booby prize several times. It's no sun belt metropolis, nor neatly gridded Gotham. If there was a city that could be a US Amsterdam, it might well be Boston. Another problem, perhaps not so obvious to long time residents, is the ridiculously inadequate signage. Yankee frugenuity dictates that where a great street meets a lesser street, at most the lesser one be labeled. After all, if you don't *know* you're on Governor Dummer Highway, you're obviously not from around here, and probably up to no good. This signage attitude is not unique to Boston, it seems to hold throughout New England. In the quieter parts, though, a person can stop and try to figure out where he is. |
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Before & after bike ghettos
On 10/19/2010 12:03 PM, Radey Shouman wrote:
Another problem, perhaps not so obvious to long time residents, is the ridiculously inadequate signage. Yankee frugenuity dictates that where a great street meets a lesser street, at most the lesser one be labeled. After all, if you don't *know* you're on Governor Dummer Highway, you're obviously not from around here, and probably up to no good. This signage attitude is not unique to Boston, it seems to hold throughout New England. In the quieter parts, though, a person can stop and try to figure out where he is. Well, as a "long time resident", I'd have to say it's both obvious and annoying to me. Sometimes there's just no arguing with tradition around here, frugal or otherwise. Things are changing though, Boston is far less parochial than it was even in the 80's, but some of those changes haven't been good. The area was lagging behind the nation in sprawl, but then caught up quite a bit in the last boom. The other thing about Boston is that it has more students per capita than any other US metro area. This means that Boston is way more depopulated in the summer, the change is striking -- not so much in the spring when students seem to leave at staggered intervals, but really in the fall when the city suddenly becomes a mass of double-parked U-hauls, and the traffic density jumps overnight -- including many out-of-state drivers, often lost and at a Darwinian disadvantage. |
#5
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Before & after bike ghettos
Peter Cole writes:
On 10/19/2010 12:03 PM, Radey Shouman wrote: Another problem, perhaps not so obvious to long time residents, is the ridiculously inadequate signage. Yankee frugenuity dictates that where a great street meets a lesser street, at most the lesser one be labeled. After all, if you don't *know* you're on Governor Dummer Highway, you're obviously not from around here, and probably up to no good. This signage attitude is not unique to Boston, it seems to hold throughout New England. In the quieter parts, though, a person can stop and try to figure out where he is. Well, as a "long time resident", I'd have to say it's both obvious and annoying to me. Sometimes there's just no arguing with tradition around here, frugal or otherwise. Things are changing though, Boston is far less parochial than it was even in the 80's, but some of those changes haven't been good. The area was lagging behind the nation in sprawl, but then caught up quite a bit in the last boom. Most other places I have lived or visited have some notion of civic hospitality: they want, or believe they should want, visitors to feel welcome, and are willing to spend a little public money to make it so. New Englanders apparently do not. Individually many are hospitable, but most consider any money at all spent to benefit outsiders to be purely wasted. Signs for streets every local should know fall into this category. Accomodations for out-of-town cyclists do as well. Perhaps this attitude is simply the result of a long experience of local democracy, I don't know The other thing about Boston is that it has more students per capita than any other US metro area. This means that Boston is way more depopulated in the summer, the change is striking -- not so much in the spring when students seem to leave at staggered intervals, but really in the fall when the city suddenly becomes a mass of double-parked U-hauls, and the traffic density jumps overnight -- including many out-of-state drivers, often lost and at a Darwinian disadvantage. It is certainly true that traffic really picks up around the beginning of September. I think part of the change is the number of parents that begin dropping children off at school, pinning their routes and schedules down more than they are during the summer. |
#6
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Before & after bike ghettos
"Radey Shouman" wrote in message ...
Peter Cole writes: On 10/19/2010 12:03 PM, Radey Shouman wrote: Most other places I have lived or visited have some notion of civic hospitality: they want, or believe they should want, visitors to feel welcome, and are willing to spend a little public money to make it so. New Englanders apparently do not. Individually many are hospitable, but most consider any money at all spent to benefit outsiders to be purely wasted. Signs for streets every local should know fall into this category. Accomodations for out-of-town cyclists do as well. It depends though. I've been to some nice bike friendly (or ski friendly) B&Bs in New Hamshire and Vermont. I think that if visitors are tourists looking to spend money, the New Englanders will accommodate g |
#7
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Before & after bike ghettos
"Duane Hebert" writes:
"Radey Shouman" wrote in message ... Peter Cole writes: On 10/19/2010 12:03 PM, Radey Shouman wrote: Most other places I have lived or visited have some notion of civic hospitality: they want, or believe they should want, visitors to feel welcome, and are willing to spend a little public money to make it so. New Englanders apparently do not. Individually many are hospitable, but most consider any money at all spent to benefit outsiders to be purely wasted. Signs for streets every local should know fall into this category. Accomodations for out-of-town cyclists do as well. It depends though. I've been to some nice bike friendly (or ski friendly) B&Bs in New Hamshire and Vermont. I think that if visitors are tourists looking to spend money, the New Englanders will accommodate g Precisely. Commercial hospitality, not civic hospitality. Welcoming paid guests, not potential blow-ins. |
#8
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Before & after bike ghettos
On 10/19/2010 2:34 PM, Radey Shouman wrote:
Most other places I have lived or visited have some notion of civic hospitality: they want, or believe they should want, visitors to feel welcome, and are willing to spend a little public money to make it so. New Englanders apparently do not. Individually many are hospitable, but most consider any money at all spent to benefit outsiders to be purely wasted. Signs for streets every local should know fall into this category. Accomodations for out-of-town cyclists do as well. Perhaps this attitude is simply the result of a long experience of local democracy, I don't know The Boston area was, at least at one time, noted for its network of public spaces. The famous "Emerald Necklace" was designed by Frederick Law Olmsted: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emerald_Necklace. The greater Boston area is loaded with various public spaces acquired over the years and grand structures erected for the common use. Massachusetts is over 60% forested, and ranks 35th in percentage of public land, unlike Iowa, at #49, ahead of only Kansas. Also in New England, NH ranks #19. Unlike an industrial farming hell hole like Iowa, where GM monoculture spreads for endless miles, spreading toxic runoff all the way to the Gulf of Mexico, and sewage lagoons dot the landscape, breeding the next strain of antibiotic resistant bug, Massachusetts retains much of its original landscape and natural resources. People come to New England to enjoy its seashores, mountains and winding country roads. People ride bikes here to enjoy the scenery, not for fried dough and beer. Fried clams, maybe. A quick survey in any of the popular areas -- Cape Cod, NH's White Mountains, the Maine coast, will reveal a high percentage of out of state plates. Hardly a testimony to an unwelcome reception. My "overpopulated" town, despite being only 6 miles from downtown Boston, is bordered by a river clean enough for swimming and to support a population of herons, otters and seasonal herring runs. My urban street is wandered by coyotes, fox, deer, rabbit, groundhog and even the occasional moose, and overflown by hawks and harriers, occasionally making kills outside my window. All that, and the restoration of the harbor and coast was accomplished with billions of public dollars. That is civics in action. I can drive 75 miles to the Cape and sail my sailboat to a stone's throw from the Obama & Kennedy families summer spots, with a 12 acre island to myself in a pristine and protected coastal area on a mid-summer's day: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eFByfOJGMqo The whole area is loaded with public resources, many preserved since colonial times. I'm an "outsider" there, too. This weekend is the "Head of the Charles Regatta", an event where thousands of rowers come from around the country (& world sometimes) to compete on the river that runs straight through Boston. The next Boston Marathon sold out registrations (20,000) in 8 hours. Boston draws hundreds of thousands of students from the country and world to spend four or more years at our universities, many of them decide to stay on. Tourism is a huge part of the New England economy, and taken seriously in Boston & Massachusetts, too. While that may be dismissed as only being business-like, the large historical and contemporary investments in public spaces, unlike places like Iowa, indicate the importance placed on those public areas and resources. They are for all, including "outsiders". As for "friendliness", I don't know how to measure that directly, but it seems that people who choose to live among lots of other people must like people more than those who choose the prairie. I don't see evidence of anti-outsider sentiment in Boston, Massachusetts or New England. Additionally, I have experienced far more tolerance here than in other parts of the US (like northern CA, parts of OR, *all* of IN, never mind the deep South). I found Texas to be "friendly", but hardly "tolerant". Given the choice, I'll take tolerance, especially when riding a bike. You may find the frugal omission of street signs inhospitable, but I find the usual lack of bullet holes more welcoming. |
#9
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Before & after bike ghettos
"Peter Cole" wrote in message ...
On 10/19/2010 2:34 PM, Radey Shouman wrote: I can drive 75 miles to the Cape and sail my sailboat to a stone's throw from the Obama & Kennedy families summer spots, with a 12 acre island to myself in a pristine and protected coastal area on a mid-summer's day: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eFByfOJGMqo The whole area is loaded with public resources, many preserved since colonial times. I'm an "outsider" there, too. Have you done the Hyannis to P-town ride? I remember that was pretty much fun. |
#10
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Before & after bike ghettos
On 10/20/2010 11:08 AM, Duane Hebert wrote:
"Peter Cole" wrote in message ... On 10/19/2010 2:34 PM, Radey Shouman wrote: I can drive 75 miles to the Cape and sail my sailboat to a stone's throw from the Obama & Kennedy families summer spots, with a 12 acre island to myself in a pristine and protected coastal area on a mid-summer's day: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eFByfOJGMqo The whole area is loaded with public resources, many preserved since colonial times. I'm an "outsider" there, too. Have you done the Hyannis to P-town ride? I remember that was pretty much fun. There's a guy in my club (Charles River Wheelmen) who organizes a ride every year from Boston (or Plymouth for some riders) to P-town, taking the ferry back. I've never done it, despite wanting to. I haven't much experience riding the Cape. I go there so much to sail that it pretty much burns me out for other stuff. We have another ride "Tour of New England", where the gimmick is to ride through every New England state over the Memorial Day weekend, ~350 miles in 3 days. I've done that a few times. When the weather is good, it's amazing, but you can get 3 days of 40 degree rain -- not the usual, but it has happened. I've also done a fair number of local "brevets", worked my way up to 400K, but never went the distance (600K) for the full series, nor the Boston-Montreal-Boston (1200K), which, conveniently starts in my home town. Some day I'd love to do it, it just takes gobs of time to prepare. All night rides through the New England countryside in June can be magical or horrible, again mostly depending on the weather, but mostly beautiful. I'd point out that while roaming over New England by bike, I never felt any inhospitable treatment, maybe I just have low standards, but people seemed friendly enough, and quite tolerant of cyclists. |
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