Before & after bike ghettos

"Phil W Lee" wrote in message ...

Frank Krygowski considered Wed, 20 Oct 2010
18:49:48 -0700 (PDT) the perfect time to write:

The _only_ place I've ever seen traffic backed up for an honest mile
is on a freeway. And never on those freeways out in western US, where
I rode them on a bicycle. I think the same is true of half-mile
backups. I think that everyday occurrences of such long backups
cannot be common. They must be extremely rare, and they can't have
much to do with promoting bike lanes.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z8t3tAlBl4I

What's wrong with those people? Why aren't they
hugging the center of the road? Then the cyclists could ride
on the side. It's not like they need some white paint
or something, is it?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aq_ce0D9eMQ

Well this guy figured a way around it. But here
it's illegal to ride in the center of two lanes.

On Oct 21, 2:21*pm, Phil W Lee wrote:
Frank Krygowski considered Wed, 20 Oct 2010
18:49:48 -0700 (PDT) the perfect time to write:

The _only_ place I've ever seen traffic backed up for an honest mile
is on a freeway. *And never on those freeways out in western US, where
I rode them on a bicycle. *I think the same is true of half-mile
backups. *I think that everyday occurrences of such long backups
cannot be common. *They must be extremely rare, and they can't have
much to do with promoting bike lanes.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z8t3t...?v=aq_ce0D9eMQ

That is pretty impressive, and no, I haven't seen a place like that
before. So I admit, in that location it's a good thing they were able
to fit that bike lane.

Oh wait...

- Frank Krygowski

P.S. I'm not sure this is going to post correctly. Google Groups is
showing me only one link, and the formatting of my reply is looking
funny. Sorry if it doesn't come out.

Per Duane Hebert:

What's wrong with those people? Why aren't they
hugging the center of the road? Then the cyclists could ride
on the side. It's not like they need some white paint
or something, is it?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aq_ce0D9eMQ

Well this guy figured a way around it. But here
it's illegal to ride in the center of two lanes.

I know this an abomination and a crime against Nature, but in my
area, I would have felt more comfortable riding that wide, unused
sidewalk on the left.
--
PeteCresswell

On 10/22/2010 1:41 PM, Phil W Lee wrote:
considered Thu, 21 Oct 2010 17:30:58
-0400 the perfect time to write:

Per Duane Hebert:

What's wrong with those people? Why aren't they
hugging the center of the road? Then the cyclists could ride
on the side. It's not like they need some white paint
or something, is it?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aq_ce0D9eMQ

Well this guy figured a way around it. But here
it's illegal to ride in the center of two lanes.

I know this an abomination and a crime against Nature, but in my
area, I would have felt more comfortable riding that wide, unused
sidewalk on the left.

Also that's illegal here, unless marked otherwise.

That's it then. According to vehicular cycling, if the lane is too
narrow to share, he should take it. That would be very "Effective
Cycling", vehicular as hell, literally.

On Oct 22, 2:34*pm, Peter Cole wrote:
On 10/22/2010 1:41 PM, Phil W Lee wrote:



*considered Thu, 21 Oct 2010 17:30:58
-0400 the perfect time to write:

Per Duane Hebert:

What's wrong with those people? *Why aren't they
hugging the center of the road? *Then the cyclists could ride
on the side. *It's not like they need some white paint
or something, is it?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aq_ce0D9eMQ

Well this guy figured a way around it. *But here
it's illegal to ride in the center of two lanes.

I know this an abomination and a crime against Nature, but in my
area, I would have felt more comfortable riding that wide, unused
sidewalk on the left.

Also that's illegal here, unless marked otherwise.

That's it then. According to vehicular cycling, if the lane is too
narrow to share, he should take it. That would be very "Effective
Cycling", vehicular as hell, literally.

I believe that's yet more misrepresentation of vehicular cycling. A
cyclist takes the lane when the lane is too narrow to allow a motorist
to safely pass the cyclist. The cyclist riding with the camera does
that from time to time, of course. But that's not the same situation
as the cyclist passing a stopped motor vehicle.

For the record, I just paged through both _Effective Cycling_ by
Forester, and _Cyclecraft_ by Franklin. I was unable to find anything
specific on filtering in either book. I certainly found no statements
forbidding it.

But of course, if they simply painted a bike lane stripe on that road,
filtering between stopped cars would be unnecessary, because the bike
lane stripe would add so much width to the pavement. Right, Peter?

- Frank Krygowski

On 10/22/2010 5:29 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On Oct 22, 2:34 pm, Peter wrote:
On 10/22/2010 1:41 PM, Phil W Lee wrote:



considered Thu, 21 Oct 2010 17:30:58
-0400 the perfect time to write:

Per Duane Hebert:

What's wrong with those people? Why aren't they
hugging the center of the road? Then the cyclists could ride
on the side. It's not like they need some white paint
or something, is it?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aq_ce0D9eMQ

Well this guy figured a way around it. But here
it's illegal to ride in the center of two lanes.

I know this an abomination and a crime against Nature, but in my
area, I would have felt more comfortable riding that wide, unused
sidewalk on the left.

Also that's illegal here, unless marked otherwise.

That's it then. According to vehicular cycling, if the lane is too
narrow to share, he should take it. That would be very "Effective
Cycling", vehicular as hell, literally.

I believe that's yet more misrepresentation of vehicular cycling. A
cyclist takes the lane when the lane is too narrow to allow a motorist
to safely pass the cyclist. The cyclist riding with the camera does
that from time to time, of course. But that's not the same situation
as the cyclist passing a stopped motor vehicle.

For the record, I just paged through both _Effective Cycling_ by
Forester, and _Cyclecraft_ by Franklin. I was unable to find anything
specific on filtering in either book. I certainly found no statements
forbidding it.

But of course, if they simply painted a bike lane stripe on that road,
filtering between stopped cars would be unnecessary, because the bike
lane stripe would add so much width to the pavement. Right, Peter?

- Frank Krygowski

If the lanes could be narrowed, sure, a bike lane might fit. That would
have made the cyclist's ride a lot easier.

On Oct 22, 7:07*pm, Peter Cole wrote:
On 10/22/2010 5:29 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:



On Oct 22, 2:34 pm, Peter *wrote:
On 10/22/2010 1:41 PM, Phil W Lee wrote:

* *considered Thu, 21 Oct 2010 17:30:58
-0400 the perfect time to write:

Per Duane Hebert:

What's wrong with those people? *Why aren't they
hugging the center of the road? *Then the cyclists could ride
on the side. *It's not like they need some white paint
or something, is it?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aq_ce0D9eMQ

Well this guy figured a way around it. *But here
it's illegal to ride in the center of two lanes.

I know this an abomination and a crime against Nature, but in my
area, I would have felt more comfortable riding that wide, unused
sidewalk on the left.

Also that's illegal here, unless marked otherwise.

That's it then. According to vehicular cycling, if the lane is too
narrow to share, he should take it. That would be very "Effective
Cycling", vehicular as hell, literally.

I believe that's yet more misrepresentation of vehicular cycling. *A
cyclist takes the lane when the lane is too narrow to allow a motorist
to safely pass the cyclist. *The cyclist riding with the camera does
that from time to time, of course. *But that's not the same situation
as the cyclist passing a stopped motor vehicle.

For the record, I just paged through both _Effective Cycling_ by
Forester, and _Cyclecraft_ by Franklin. *I was unable to find anything
specific on filtering in either book. *I certainly found no statements
forbidding it.

But of course, if they simply painted a bike lane stripe on that road,
filtering between stopped cars would be unnecessary, because the bike
lane stripe would add so much width to the pavement. *Right, Peter?

- Frank Krygowski

If the lanes could be narrowed, sure, a bike lane might fit. That would
have made the cyclist's ride a lot easier.

"On _that_ road" ... remember?

- Frank Krygowski

On 10/20/2010 7:30 AM, Duane Hebert wrote:
[...]
Next time that you ride in Toronto[...]

Been there, done that!

http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&geocode=&q=Toronto,+Iowa &sll=41.921617,-91.634623&sspn=0.007759,0.021136&ie=UTF8&hq=&hnear =Toronto,+Clinton,+Iowa&z=14

--
Tom Sherman - 42.435731,-83.985007
I am a vehicular cyclist.

On 10/21/2010 8:04 AM, Duane Hebert wrote:
[...]
Being backed up for a mile is probably not the norm here but 10-15
minutes to get through an intersection is not unusual.[...]

That would be hell. I usually have to wait 10 to 15 *seconds* when I
catch a red light.

--
Tom Sherman - 42.435731,-83.985007
I am a vehicular cyclist.

On 10/21/2010 1:21 PM, Phil W Lee wrote:
Frank considered Wed, 20 Oct 2010
18:49:48 -0700 (PDT) the perfect time to write:

The _only_ place I've ever seen traffic backed up for an honest mile
is on a freeway. And never on those freeways out in western US, where
I rode them on a bicycle. I think the same is true of half-mile
backups. I think that everyday occurrences of such long backups
cannot be common. They must be extremely rare, and they can't have
much to do with promoting bike lanes.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z8t3tAlBl4I
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aq_ce0D9eMQ

Why would anyone choose to live and commute by personal motor vehicle in
such an environment?

--
Tom Sherman - 42.435731,-83.985007
I am a vehicular cyclist.