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Recovery and Diet



 
 
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  #1  
Old August 11th 19, 09:00 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Tom Kunich[_5_]
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Default Recovery and Diet

Personal experience and Global Cycling News programming often disagree as they have speaking about Ketone diets.

As it turns out, a weight loss diet and their idea of a Ketone dirt are more or less the same thing. Protein and Fats and no carbohydrates.

Since my wife has been trying to lose weight (and has been successful) I've ended up eating GCN's sort of Ketone Diet.

It hasn't have any positive effect on my performance and I can tell you that. Yet when I stop on a ride and have a coffee and a sugar roll, I get not only a boost in performance but I feel a lot better after the ride without the need to fall asleep in the lounge chair before I can even put the bike away.

Now what this is telling me is that if you are on the Ketone Diet your (or perhaps only my) liver simply cannot metabolize fat fast enough to maintain a performance level, but the speed with which I can metabolize carbohydrates is enough to hold my performance levels (which, granted are only around 200 Watts on a good day) for my normal rides of around 40-60 miles with a lot of climbing.

Now if we are talking a scant 10K I have generated as much as 400 watts over that distance a couple of times this year.
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  #2  
Old August 11th 19, 09:46 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
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Default Recovery and Diet

On Sunday, August 11, 2019 at 10:00:57 PM UTC+2, Tom Kunich wrote:
Personal experience and Global Cycling News programming often disagree as they have speaking about Ketone diets.

As it turns out, a weight loss diet and their idea of a Ketone dirt are more or less the same thing. Protein and Fats and no carbohydrates.

Since my wife has been trying to lose weight (and has been successful) I've ended up eating GCN's sort of Ketone Diet.

It hasn't have any positive effect on my performance and I can tell you that. Yet when I stop on a ride and have a coffee and a sugar roll, I get not only a boost in performance but I feel a lot better after the ride without the need to fall asleep in the lounge chair before I can even put the bike away.

Now what this is telling me is that if you are on the Ketone Diet your (or perhaps only my) liver simply cannot metabolize fat fast enough to maintain a performance level, but the speed with which I can metabolize carbohydrates is enough to hold my performance levels (which, granted are only around 200 Watts on a good day) for my normal rides of around 40-60 miles with a lot of climbing.

Now if we are talking a scant 10K I have generated as much as 400 watts over that distance a couple of times this year.


Even in the Pro peloton the effect of ketons is questioned. Best and cheapest recovery drink is 0.5 liter of low fat choco drink: 2 third carbs and 1 third protein.

Again Tom 400 W is Pro level, even for 10 k miles. I set a new personal record yesterday for a Strava segment here in my neighborhood. Flat, no stop signs, almost no traffic and a moderate tailwind: 5.53 km in 7min 23 sec; average speed 45 km/hr. Average power of 259 Watt, measured with a power meter. Average heartbeat of 167 bpm. Overall place 44 out of 4070. First place out of 207 in this years classification in my age category: 55-64 yr. I am 62 y old. So I'm above average and nowhere near 400 W for a shorter distance. Again 400 Watt is Pro level.

Lou


  #3  
Old August 12th 19, 01:28 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Claus A▀mann
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Default 400W (was: Recovery and Diet)

Lou wrote:
On Sunday, August 11, 2019 at 10:00:57 PM UTC+2, Tom Kunich wrote:


Now if we are talking a scant 10K I have generated as much as 400 watts over that distance [[...]]


Again Tom 400 W is Pro level, even for 10 k miles.


That depends on the weight of the person...
at 100kg, that's 4W/kg and hence achievable by a trained cyclist over that distance.
at 60kg, that's 6.6W/kg which is "pro level" (wrt weight and power)


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  #4  
Old August 12th 19, 10:39 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
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Default 400W (was: Recovery and Diet)

On Monday, August 12, 2019 at 2:28:36 AM UTC+2, Claus A├čmann wrote:
Lou wrote:
On Sunday, August 11, 2019 at 10:00:57 PM UTC+2, Tom Kunich wrote:


Now if we are talking a scant 10K I have generated as much as 400 watts over that distance [[...]]


Again Tom 400 W is Pro level, even for 10 k miles.


That depends on the weight of the person...
at 100kg, that's 4W/kg and hence achievable by a trained cyclist over that distance.
at 60kg, that's 6.6W/kg which is "pro level" (wrt weight and power)



True if 100 kg is not the result of overweight. In practice I see never people (mortals like you and me) in the Strava segments top ranking with listed powers (they use a power meter) exceeding 350 Watts. See ranking of the Passo Pordoi for instance. First is Vicenzo Nibali. We don't count him but in the top 20 no one exceeded 350 Watts in their effort and you can count on it that the top 20 people are top cyclists.
IIRC Tom is a slightly overweight 75 year old. So if he manage 400 Watts over 16 km that is a world class achievement. Hat off.

Lou
  #5  
Old August 12th 19, 03:22 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
JBeattie
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Default Recovery and Diet

On Sunday, August 11, 2019 at 1:46:55 PM UTC-7, wrote:
On Sunday, August 11, 2019 at 10:00:57 PM UTC+2, Tom Kunich wrote:
Personal experience and Global Cycling News programming often disagree as they have speaking about Ketone diets.

As it turns out, a weight loss diet and their idea of a Ketone dirt are more or less the same thing. Protein and Fats and no carbohydrates.

Since my wife has been trying to lose weight (and has been successful) I've ended up eating GCN's sort of Ketone Diet.

It hasn't have any positive effect on my performance and I can tell you that. Yet when I stop on a ride and have a coffee and a sugar roll, I get not only a boost in performance but I feel a lot better after the ride without the need to fall asleep in the lounge chair before I can even put the bike away.

Now what this is telling me is that if you are on the Ketone Diet your (or perhaps only my) liver simply cannot metabolize fat fast enough to maintain a performance level, but the speed with which I can metabolize carbohydrates is enough to hold my performance levels (which, granted are only around 200 Watts on a good day) for my normal rides of around 40-60 miles with a lot of climbing.

Now if we are talking a scant 10K I have generated as much as 400 watts over that distance a couple of times this year.


Even in the Pro peloton the effect of ketons is questioned. Best and cheapest recovery drink is 0.5 liter of low fat choco drink: 2 third carbs and 1 third protein.

Again Tom 400 W is Pro level, even for 10 k miles. I set a new personal record yesterday for a Strava segment here in my neighborhood. Flat, no stop signs, almost no traffic and a moderate tailwind: 5.53 km in 7min 23 sec; average speed 45 km/hr. Average power of 259 Watt, measured with a power meter. Average heartbeat of 167 bpm. Overall place 44 out of 4070. First place out of 207 in this years classification in my age category: 55-64 yr. I am 62 y old. So I'm above average and nowhere near 400 W for a shorter distance. Again 400 Watt is Pro level.


I have the KOM on the segment of my driveway between the street and my garage. Yesterday, I came in second on a brutal climb. I was riding with two other guys and was happy to beat the third guy since I'm still recovering from my crash -- and rode too much the day before. The third guy has been focusing on random weight gain, doing beer repeats. He'll trim down in time for cyclocross season -- maybe. It was a spectacularly beautiful day, marred only by the Bridge Pedal -- a few bazillion cyclists clogging up traffic. https://tinyurl.com/y36z88ug We headed south along with everyone else.. Speaking of CX, the local teams were out training -- doing hill repeats up the cemetery and other feats of athleticism. Like I've said, riding on a team during the CX season is the equivalent of being on a bowling team in the Mid West. Cross Crusade -- this is just the beginner woman's field. https://tinyurl.com/y36z88ug I kid you not.


-- Jay Beattie.



  #6  
Old August 12th 19, 05:05 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Duane[_2_]
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Default Recovery and Diet

On 12/08/2019 10:22 a.m., jbeattie wrote:
On Sunday, August 11, 2019 at 1:46:55 PM UTC-7, wrote:
On Sunday, August 11, 2019 at 10:00:57 PM UTC+2, Tom Kunich wrote:
Personal experience and Global Cycling News programming often disagree as they have speaking about Ketone diets.

As it turns out, a weight loss diet and their idea of a Ketone dirt are more or less the same thing. Protein and Fats and no carbohydrates.

Since my wife has been trying to lose weight (and has been successful) I've ended up eating GCN's sort of Ketone Diet.

It hasn't have any positive effect on my performance and I can tell you that. Yet when I stop on a ride and have a coffee and a sugar roll, I get not only a boost in performance but I feel a lot better after the ride without the need to fall asleep in the lounge chair before I can even put the bike away.

Now what this is telling me is that if you are on the Ketone Diet your (or perhaps only my) liver simply cannot metabolize fat fast enough to maintain a performance level, but the speed with which I can metabolize carbohydrates is enough to hold my performance levels (which, granted are only around 200 Watts on a good day) for my normal rides of around 40-60 miles with a lot of climbing.

Now if we are talking a scant 10K I have generated as much as 400 watts over that distance a couple of times this year.


Even in the Pro peloton the effect of ketons is questioned. Best and cheapest recovery drink is 0.5 liter of low fat choco drink: 2 third carbs and 1 third protein.

Again Tom 400 W is Pro level, even for 10 k miles. I set a new personal record yesterday for a Strava segment here in my neighborhood. Flat, no stop signs, almost no traffic and a moderate tailwind: 5.53 km in 7min 23 sec; average speed 45 km/hr. Average power of 259 Watt, measured with a power meter. Average heartbeat of 167 bpm. Overall place 44 out of 4070. First place out of 207 in this years classification in my age category: 55-64 yr. I am 62 y old. So I'm above average and nowhere near 400 W for a shorter distance. Again 400 Watt is Pro level.


I have the KOM on the segment of my driveway between the street and my garage. Yesterday, I came in second on a brutal climb. I was riding with two other guys and was happy to beat the third guy since I'm still recovering from my crash -- and rode too much the day before. The third guy has been focusing on random weight gain, doing beer repeats. He'll trim down in time for cyclocross season -- maybe. It was a spectacularly beautiful day, marred only by the Bridge Pedal -- a few bazillion cyclists clogging up traffic. https://tinyurl.com/y36z88ug We headed south along with everyone else. Speaking of CX, the local teams were out training -- doing hill repeats up the cemetery and other feats of athleticism. Like I've said, riding on a team during the CX season is the equivalent of being on a bowling team in the Mid West. Cross Crusade -- this is just the beginner woman's field. https://tinyurl.com/y36z88ug I kid you not.


-- Jay Beattie.




Been windy here. Rode Friday, Saturday and Sunday ~80km each day with
winds 30-40km. Mostly flattish Friday and Saturday. ~500 meters on
Sunday. I found that a couple of cold lagers helped beautifully with
the recoveries.

400w? I was lucky to get 150 yesterday. I think I need more recovery work.
  #7  
Old August 12th 19, 07:41 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Tom Kunich[_5_]
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Posts: 625
Default Recovery and Diet

On Sunday, August 11, 2019 at 1:46:55 PM UTC-7, wrote:
On Sunday, August 11, 2019 at 10:00:57 PM UTC+2, Tom Kunich wrote:
Personal experience and Global Cycling News programming often disagree as they have speaking about Ketone diets.

As it turns out, a weight loss diet and their idea of a Ketone dirt are more or less the same thing. Protein and Fats and no carbohydrates.

Since my wife has been trying to lose weight (and has been successful) I've ended up eating GCN's sort of Ketone Diet.

It hasn't have any positive effect on my performance and I can tell you that. Yet when I stop on a ride and have a coffee and a sugar roll, I get not only a boost in performance but I feel a lot better after the ride without the need to fall asleep in the lounge chair before I can even put the bike away.

Now what this is telling me is that if you are on the Ketone Diet your (or perhaps only my) liver simply cannot metabolize fat fast enough to maintain a performance level, but the speed with which I can metabolize carbohydrates is enough to hold my performance levels (which, granted are only around 200 Watts on a good day) for my normal rides of around 40-60 miles with a lot of climbing.

Now if we are talking a scant 10K I have generated as much as 400 watts over that distance a couple of times this year.


Even in the Pro peloton the effect of ketons is questioned. Best and cheapest recovery drink is 0.5 liter of low fat choco drink: 2 third carbs and 1 third protein.

Again Tom 400 W is Pro level, even for 10 k miles. I set a new personal record yesterday for a Strava segment here in my neighborhood. Flat, no stop signs, almost no traffic and a moderate tailwind: 5.53 km in 7min 23 sec; average speed 45 km/hr. Average power of 259 Watt, measured with a power meter. Average heartbeat of 167 bpm. Overall place 44 out of 4070. First place out of 207 in this years classification in my age category: 55-64 yr. I am 62 y old. So I'm above average and nowhere near 400 W for a shorter distance. Again 400 Watt is Pro level.

Lou


I have the idea that you don't climb Lou. You absolutely must generate a lot of power to climb and the 12 or more percentage grades can take power in the 400 to 600 category just to crest.
  #8  
Old August 12th 19, 08:43 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
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Posts: 451
Default Recovery and Diet

On Monday, August 12, 2019 at 8:41:28 PM UTC+2, Tom Kunich wrote:
On Sunday, August 11, 2019 at 1:46:55 PM UTC-7, wrote:
On Sunday, August 11, 2019 at 10:00:57 PM UTC+2, Tom Kunich wrote:
Personal experience and Global Cycling News programming often disagree as they have speaking about Ketone diets.

As it turns out, a weight loss diet and their idea of a Ketone dirt are more or less the same thing. Protein and Fats and no carbohydrates.

Since my wife has been trying to lose weight (and has been successful) I've ended up eating GCN's sort of Ketone Diet.

It hasn't have any positive effect on my performance and I can tell you that. Yet when I stop on a ride and have a coffee and a sugar roll, I get not only a boost in performance but I feel a lot better after the ride without the need to fall asleep in the lounge chair before I can even put the bike away.

Now what this is telling me is that if you are on the Ketone Diet your (or perhaps only my) liver simply cannot metabolize fat fast enough to maintain a performance level, but the speed with which I can metabolize carbohydrates is enough to hold my performance levels (which, granted are only around 200 Watts on a good day) for my normal rides of around 40-60 miles with a lot of climbing.

Now if we are talking a scant 10K I have generated as much as 400 watts over that distance a couple of times this year.


Even in the Pro peloton the effect of ketons is questioned. Best and cheapest recovery drink is 0.5 liter of low fat choco drink: 2 third carbs and 1 third protein.

Again Tom 400 W is Pro level, even for 10 k miles. I set a new personal record yesterday for a Strava segment here in my neighborhood. Flat, no stop signs, almost no traffic and a moderate tailwind: 5.53 km in 7min 23 sec; average speed 45 km/hr. Average power of 259 Watt, measured with a power meter. Average heartbeat of 167 bpm. Overall place 44 out of 4070. First place out of 207 in this years classification in my age category: 55-64 yr. I am 62 y old. So I'm above average and nowhere near 400 W for a shorter distance. Again 400 Watt is Pro level.

Lou


I have the idea that you don't climb Lou. You absolutely must generate a lot of power to climb and the 12 or more percentage grades can take power in the 400 to 600 category just to crest.


Well I certainly don't climb as much as I would like but I have my moments and I have those moments for 30 years now:

https://connect.garmin.com/modern/activity/3820852059

That aside grade has little to do with power. You only need the proper gearing. I can haul 85 kg 850 meter up in an hour. The average power needed for that is (mass*gravitational acceleration*elevation gain)/time in sec = (85*9.81*850)/3600 Nm/sec (= Watt) = 197 Watt. I can use the same available power to go fast against a headwind. There is nothing special about climbing when we talk about power needed. Accelerating after a corner or sprinting over a highway overpass you can easily exceed 600 Watt, but only for a short time. 400 Watt average over a distance of 16 km is a hard to believe value. Try a proper power meter and look at the data during a ride.

Lou
  #9  
Old August 12th 19, 09:03 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
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Default Recovery and Diet

On Monday, August 12, 2019 at 9:22:53 AM UTC-5, jbeattie wrote:
Cross Crusade -- this is just the beginner woman's field. https://tinyurl.com/y36z88ug I kid you not.

-- Jay Beattie.


I don't mean to sound snarky or rude, but that picture has a whole lot of men in it. And Santa Claus is down at the bottom of the picture talking to a little girl. Who definitely does NOT qualify as a woman. But maybe Oregon has a very different definition of "beginner woman's field".
  #10  
Old August 12th 19, 09:04 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
JBeattie
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Posts: 4,108
Default Recovery and Diet

On Monday, August 12, 2019 at 12:43:05 PM UTC-7, wrote:
On Monday, August 12, 2019 at 8:41:28 PM UTC+2, Tom Kunich wrote:
On Sunday, August 11, 2019 at 1:46:55 PM UTC-7, wrote:
On Sunday, August 11, 2019 at 10:00:57 PM UTC+2, Tom Kunich wrote:
Personal experience and Global Cycling News programming often disagree as they have speaking about Ketone diets.

As it turns out, a weight loss diet and their idea of a Ketone dirt are more or less the same thing. Protein and Fats and no carbohydrates.

Since my wife has been trying to lose weight (and has been successful) I've ended up eating GCN's sort of Ketone Diet.

It hasn't have any positive effect on my performance and I can tell you that. Yet when I stop on a ride and have a coffee and a sugar roll, I get not only a boost in performance but I feel a lot better after the ride without the need to fall asleep in the lounge chair before I can even put the bike away.

Now what this is telling me is that if you are on the Ketone Diet your (or perhaps only my) liver simply cannot metabolize fat fast enough to maintain a performance level, but the speed with which I can metabolize carbohydrates is enough to hold my performance levels (which, granted are only around 200 Watts on a good day) for my normal rides of around 40-60 miles with a lot of climbing.

Now if we are talking a scant 10K I have generated as much as 400 watts over that distance a couple of times this year.

Even in the Pro peloton the effect of ketons is questioned. Best and cheapest recovery drink is 0.5 liter of low fat choco drink: 2 third carbs and 1 third protein.

Again Tom 400 W is Pro level, even for 10 k miles. I set a new personal record yesterday for a Strava segment here in my neighborhood. Flat, no stop signs, almost no traffic and a moderate tailwind: 5.53 km in 7min 23 sec; average speed 45 km/hr. Average power of 259 Watt, measured with a power meter. Average heartbeat of 167 bpm. Overall place 44 out of 4070. First place out of 207 in this years classification in my age category: 55-64 yr. I am 62 y old. So I'm above average and nowhere near 400 W for a shorter distance. Again 400 Watt is Pro level.

Lou


I have the idea that you don't climb Lou. You absolutely must generate a lot of power to climb and the 12 or more percentage grades can take power in the 400 to 600 category just to crest.


Well I certainly don't climb as much as I would like but I have my moments and I have those moments for 30 years now:

https://connect.garmin.com/modern/activity/3820852059

That aside grade has little to do with power. You only need the proper gearing. I can haul 85 kg 850 meter up in an hour. The average power needed for that is (mass*gravitational acceleration*elevation gain)/time in sec = (85*9.81*850)/3600 Nm/sec (= Watt) = 197 Watt. I can use the same available power to go fast against a headwind. There is nothing special about climbing when we talk about power needed. Accelerating after a corner or sprinting over a highway overpass you can easily exceed 600 Watt, but only for a short time. 400 Watt average over a distance of 16 km is a hard to believe value. Try a proper power meter and look at the data during a ride.



Stages. Its the best. https://stagescycling.com/us/products/power/

-- Jay Beattie.
 




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