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Recovery and Diet



 
 
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  #21  
Old August 13th 19, 01:46 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Frank Krygowski[_2_]
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Posts: 7,283
Default Recovery and Diet

On Monday, August 12, 2019 at 7:27:49 PM UTC-4, jbeattie wrote:
On Monday, August 12, 2019 at 3:05:11 PM UTC-7, Tom Kunich wrote:
On Monday, August 12, 2019 at 1:04:22 PM UTC-7, jbeattie wrote:
On Monday, August 12, 2019 at 12:43:05 PM UTC-7, wrote:
On Monday, August 12, 2019 at 8:41:28 PM UTC+2, Tom Kunich wrote:
On Sunday, August 11, 2019 at 1:46:55 PM UTC-7, wrote:
On Sunday, August 11, 2019 at 10:00:57 PM UTC+2, Tom Kunich wrote:
Personal experience and Global Cycling News programming often disagree as they have speaking about Ketone diets.

As it turns out, a weight loss diet and their idea of a Ketone dirt are more or less the same thing. Protein and Fats and no carbohydrates.

Since my wife has been trying to lose weight (and has been successful) I've ended up eating GCN's sort of Ketone Diet.

It hasn't have any positive effect on my performance and I can tell you that. Yet when I stop on a ride and have a coffee and a sugar roll, I get not only a boost in performance but I feel a lot better after the ride without the need to fall asleep in the lounge chair before I can even put the bike away.

Now what this is telling me is that if you are on the Ketone Diet your (or perhaps only my) liver simply cannot metabolize fat fast enough to maintain a performance level, but the speed with which I can metabolize carbohydrates is enough to hold my performance levels (which, granted are only around 200 Watts on a good day) for my normal rides of around 40-60 miles with a lot of climbing.

Now if we are talking a scant 10K I have generated as much as 400 watts over that distance a couple of times this year.

Even in the Pro peloton the effect of ketons is questioned. Best and cheapest recovery drink is 0.5 liter of low fat choco drink: 2 third carbs and 1 third protein.

Again Tom 400 W is Pro level, even for 10 k miles. I set a new personal record yesterday for a Strava segment here in my neighborhood. Flat, no stop signs, almost no traffic and a moderate tailwind: 5.53 km in 7min 23 sec; average speed 45 km/hr. Average power of 259 Watt, measured with a power meter. Average heartbeat of 167 bpm. Overall place 44 out of 4070. First place out of 207 in this years classification in my age category: 55-64 yr. I am 62 y old. So I'm above average and nowhere near 400 W for a shorter distance. Again 400 Watt is Pro level.

Lou

I have the idea that you don't climb Lou. You absolutely must generate a lot of power to climb and the 12 or more percentage grades can take power in the 400 to 600 category just to crest.

Well I certainly don't climb as much as I would like but I have my moments and I have those moments for 30 years now:

https://connect.garmin.com/modern/activity/3820852059

That aside grade has little to do with power. You only need the proper gearing. I can haul 85 kg 850 meter up in an hour. The average power needed for that is (mass*gravitational acceleration*elevation gain)/time in sec = (85*9.81*850)/3600 Nm/sec (= Watt) = 197 Watt. I can use the same available power to go fast against a headwind. There is nothing special about climbing when we talk about power needed. Accelerating after a corner or sprinting over a highway overpass you can easily exceed 600 Watt, but only for a short time. 400 Watt average over a distance of 16 km is a hard to believe value. Try a proper power meter and look at the data during a ride..


Stages. Its the best. https://stagescycling.com/us/products/power/

-- Jay Beattie.


Just out of curiosity what do you need that for? My brother has one and while he has high average speeds the power output doesn't seem particularly impressive. Racers use it in a race so that they don't go too hard too early - are you racing?


No, I'm trying to support my son's employer. Training with power is SOP for racers and sport riders these days. I'm not into data, because its mostly depressing, but some people love it -- like most of my friends. And god bless them for supporting Stages. If it's good enough for Sky/Ineos, its good enough for you! https://www.teamineos.com/sponsors/stages Offices in Portland Ory-gun. You need one because you quote all these whacky power figures calculated from god-knows-what.


Does it come with a menu choice for power output? Horsepower, Watts or KuniWatts? ;-)

- Frank Krygowski

Ads
  #22  
Old August 13th 19, 02:26 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
JBeattie
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Posts: 4,108
Default Recovery and Diet

On Monday, August 12, 2019 at 5:46:51 PM UTC-7, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On Monday, August 12, 2019 at 7:27:49 PM UTC-4, jbeattie wrote:
On Monday, August 12, 2019 at 3:05:11 PM UTC-7, Tom Kunich wrote:
On Monday, August 12, 2019 at 1:04:22 PM UTC-7, jbeattie wrote:
On Monday, August 12, 2019 at 12:43:05 PM UTC-7, wrote:
On Monday, August 12, 2019 at 8:41:28 PM UTC+2, Tom Kunich wrote:
On Sunday, August 11, 2019 at 1:46:55 PM UTC-7, wrote:
On Sunday, August 11, 2019 at 10:00:57 PM UTC+2, Tom Kunich wrote:
Personal experience and Global Cycling News programming often disagree as they have speaking about Ketone diets.

As it turns out, a weight loss diet and their idea of a Ketone dirt are more or less the same thing. Protein and Fats and no carbohydrates.

Since my wife has been trying to lose weight (and has been successful) I've ended up eating GCN's sort of Ketone Diet.

It hasn't have any positive effect on my performance and I can tell you that. Yet when I stop on a ride and have a coffee and a sugar roll, I get not only a boost in performance but I feel a lot better after the ride without the need to fall asleep in the lounge chair before I can even put the bike away.

Now what this is telling me is that if you are on the Ketone Diet your (or perhaps only my) liver simply cannot metabolize fat fast enough to maintain a performance level, but the speed with which I can metabolize carbohydrates is enough to hold my performance levels (which, granted are only around 200 Watts on a good day) for my normal rides of around 40-60 miles with a lot of climbing.

Now if we are talking a scant 10K I have generated as much as 400 watts over that distance a couple of times this year.

Even in the Pro peloton the effect of ketons is questioned. Best and cheapest recovery drink is 0.5 liter of low fat choco drink: 2 third carbs and 1 third protein.

Again Tom 400 W is Pro level, even for 10 k miles. I set a new personal record yesterday for a Strava segment here in my neighborhood. Flat, no stop signs, almost no traffic and a moderate tailwind: 5.53 km in 7min 23 sec; average speed 45 km/hr. Average power of 259 Watt, measured with a power meter. Average heartbeat of 167 bpm. Overall place 44 out of 4070.. First place out of 207 in this years classification in my age category: 55-64 yr. I am 62 y old. So I'm above average and nowhere near 400 W for a shorter distance. Again 400 Watt is Pro level.

Lou

I have the idea that you don't climb Lou. You absolutely must generate a lot of power to climb and the 12 or more percentage grades can take power in the 400 to 600 category just to crest.

Well I certainly don't climb as much as I would like but I have my moments and I have those moments for 30 years now:

https://connect.garmin.com/modern/activity/3820852059

That aside grade has little to do with power. You only need the proper gearing. I can haul 85 kg 850 meter up in an hour. The average power needed for that is (mass*gravitational acceleration*elevation gain)/time in sec = (85*9.81*850)/3600 Nm/sec (= Watt) = 197 Watt. I can use the same available power to go fast against a headwind. There is nothing special about climbing when we talk about power needed. Accelerating after a corner or sprinting over a highway overpass you can easily exceed 600 Watt, but only for a short time. 400 Watt average over a distance of 16 km is a hard to believe value. Try a proper power meter and look at the data during a ride.


Stages. Its the best. https://stagescycling.com/us/products/power/

-- Jay Beattie.

Just out of curiosity what do you need that for? My brother has one and while he has high average speeds the power output doesn't seem particularly impressive. Racers use it in a race so that they don't go too hard too early - are you racing?


No, I'm trying to support my son's employer. Training with power is SOP for racers and sport riders these days. I'm not into data, because its mostly depressing, but some people love it -- like most of my friends. And god bless them for supporting Stages. If it's good enough for Sky/Ineos, its good enough for you! https://www.teamineos.com/sponsors/stages Offices in Portland Ory-gun. You need one because you quote all these whacky power figures calculated from god-knows-what.


Does it come with a menu choice for power output? Horsepower, Watts or KuniWatts? ;-)


They're beta testing the turbo function that grosses-up your power by 35% and posts it automatically to your Strava account.

I was riding with Egan Bernal the other day on this climb, and he gapped me, but I kicked it the last quarter mile and dropped him. Then I woke up.

-- Jay Beattie.
  #23  
Old August 13th 19, 04:54 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Tom Kunich[_5_]
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Posts: 625
Default Recovery and Diet

On Monday, August 12, 2019 at 4:27:49 PM UTC-7, jbeattie wrote:
On Monday, August 12, 2019 at 3:05:11 PM UTC-7, Tom Kunich wrote:
On Monday, August 12, 2019 at 1:04:22 PM UTC-7, jbeattie wrote:
On Monday, August 12, 2019 at 12:43:05 PM UTC-7, wrote:
On Monday, August 12, 2019 at 8:41:28 PM UTC+2, Tom Kunich wrote:
On Sunday, August 11, 2019 at 1:46:55 PM UTC-7, wrote:
On Sunday, August 11, 2019 at 10:00:57 PM UTC+2, Tom Kunich wrote:
Personal experience and Global Cycling News programming often disagree as they have speaking about Ketone diets.

As it turns out, a weight loss diet and their idea of a Ketone dirt are more or less the same thing. Protein and Fats and no carbohydrates.

Since my wife has been trying to lose weight (and has been successful) I've ended up eating GCN's sort of Ketone Diet.

It hasn't have any positive effect on my performance and I can tell you that. Yet when I stop on a ride and have a coffee and a sugar roll, I get not only a boost in performance but I feel a lot better after the ride without the need to fall asleep in the lounge chair before I can even put the bike away.

Now what this is telling me is that if you are on the Ketone Diet your (or perhaps only my) liver simply cannot metabolize fat fast enough to maintain a performance level, but the speed with which I can metabolize carbohydrates is enough to hold my performance levels (which, granted are only around 200 Watts on a good day) for my normal rides of around 40-60 miles with a lot of climbing.

Now if we are talking a scant 10K I have generated as much as 400 watts over that distance a couple of times this year.

Even in the Pro peloton the effect of ketons is questioned. Best and cheapest recovery drink is 0.5 liter of low fat choco drink: 2 third carbs and 1 third protein.

Again Tom 400 W is Pro level, even for 10 k miles. I set a new personal record yesterday for a Strava segment here in my neighborhood. Flat, no stop signs, almost no traffic and a moderate tailwind: 5.53 km in 7min 23 sec; average speed 45 km/hr. Average power of 259 Watt, measured with a power meter. Average heartbeat of 167 bpm. Overall place 44 out of 4070. First place out of 207 in this years classification in my age category: 55-64 yr. I am 62 y old. So I'm above average and nowhere near 400 W for a shorter distance. Again 400 Watt is Pro level.

Lou

I have the idea that you don't climb Lou. You absolutely must generate a lot of power to climb and the 12 or more percentage grades can take power in the 400 to 600 category just to crest.

Well I certainly don't climb as much as I would like but I have my moments and I have those moments for 30 years now:

https://connect.garmin.com/modern/activity/3820852059

That aside grade has little to do with power. You only need the proper gearing. I can haul 85 kg 850 meter up in an hour. The average power needed for that is (mass*gravitational acceleration*elevation gain)/time in sec = (85*9.81*850)/3600 Nm/sec (= Watt) = 197 Watt. I can use the same available power to go fast against a headwind. There is nothing special about climbing when we talk about power needed. Accelerating after a corner or sprinting over a highway overpass you can easily exceed 600 Watt, but only for a short time. 400 Watt average over a distance of 16 km is a hard to believe value. Try a proper power meter and look at the data during a ride..


Stages. Its the best. https://stagescycling.com/us/products/power/

-- Jay Beattie.


Just out of curiosity what do you need that for? My brother has one and while he has high average speeds the power output doesn't seem particularly impressive. Racers use it in a race so that they don't go too hard too early - are you racing?


No, I'm trying to support my son's employer. Training with power is SOP for racers and sport riders these days. I'm not into data, because its mostly depressing, but some people love it -- like most of my friends. And god bless them for supporting Stages. If it's good enough for Sky/Ineos, its good enough for you! https://www.teamineos.com/sponsors/stages Offices in Portland Ory-gun. You need one because you quote all these whacky power figures calculated from god-knows-what. Get a real power meter with your savvy investment earnings.

-- Jay Beattie.


You don't invest do you? If you did you'd have some idea of what the market is doing lately.

If you believe that a power meter is good for anything other than a racer monitoring his power output in a race soas not to overwhelm himself at the wrong time then it is a good thing you are a lawyer. As an athlete you'd be a failure within minutes.
  #24  
Old August 13th 19, 05:09 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Tom Kunich[_5_]
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Posts: 625
Default Recovery and Diet

On Monday, August 12, 2019 at 5:35:48 PM UTC-7, Claus Aßmann wrote:
Tom Kunich wrote:

10K I have generated as much as 400 watts over that distance


So you can _average_ 400 W for 16 kilometers ("10K") (i.e., for
about 25 minutes)?
How did you measure that power output?

--
Note: please read the netiquette before posting. I will almost never
reply to top-postings which include a full copy of the previous
article(s) at the end because it's annoying, shows that the poster
is too lazy to trim his article, and it's wasting the time of all readers..


You measure that output by weight, approximated frontal area, wind speed and time for the distance. Power meters cannot give you a more accurate reading than that. In fact, the most common power meters are built-in to cranks. Aside from the fact that most only read directly from half a crank, they also do not read accurately for actual power. They read via distortion of the cranks meaning that you have to have precise control of the metallurgy and perfect installation angle.

For instance, last year I did 10K into a 20 mph wind in 21 minutes. The combined weight was 94 kg and the frontal area about .79 meters^2.

The only real accurate power meters are rear hub mechanisms which can be fully machined so that every component is as accurate as possible.

To underscore this - PROS do not produce this level of power for 10K - they can do it for 100K. It is not unusual for normal riders to put out a great deal of power for relatively short distances. Cat 2 and 1 racers put out phenomenal power in criteriums. There are several videos on YouTube that have both the bar camera and a power overlay that are shocking. 1200 watts out of every corner and 1600 watts in the final sprints. 600 watts between corners. The accelerations are what really burn up the power.
  #25  
Old August 13th 19, 05:46 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
JBeattie
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 4,108
Default Recovery and Diet

On Tuesday, August 13, 2019 at 8:54:04 AM UTC-7, Tom Kunich wrote:
On Monday, August 12, 2019 at 4:27:49 PM UTC-7, jbeattie wrote:
On Monday, August 12, 2019 at 3:05:11 PM UTC-7, Tom Kunich wrote:
On Monday, August 12, 2019 at 1:04:22 PM UTC-7, jbeattie wrote:
On Monday, August 12, 2019 at 12:43:05 PM UTC-7, wrote:
On Monday, August 12, 2019 at 8:41:28 PM UTC+2, Tom Kunich wrote:
On Sunday, August 11, 2019 at 1:46:55 PM UTC-7, wrote:
On Sunday, August 11, 2019 at 10:00:57 PM UTC+2, Tom Kunich wrote:
Personal experience and Global Cycling News programming often disagree as they have speaking about Ketone diets.

As it turns out, a weight loss diet and their idea of a Ketone dirt are more or less the same thing. Protein and Fats and no carbohydrates.

Since my wife has been trying to lose weight (and has been successful) I've ended up eating GCN's sort of Ketone Diet.

It hasn't have any positive effect on my performance and I can tell you that. Yet when I stop on a ride and have a coffee and a sugar roll, I get not only a boost in performance but I feel a lot better after the ride without the need to fall asleep in the lounge chair before I can even put the bike away.

Now what this is telling me is that if you are on the Ketone Diet your (or perhaps only my) liver simply cannot metabolize fat fast enough to maintain a performance level, but the speed with which I can metabolize carbohydrates is enough to hold my performance levels (which, granted are only around 200 Watts on a good day) for my normal rides of around 40-60 miles with a lot of climbing.

Now if we are talking a scant 10K I have generated as much as 400 watts over that distance a couple of times this year.

Even in the Pro peloton the effect of ketons is questioned. Best and cheapest recovery drink is 0.5 liter of low fat choco drink: 2 third carbs and 1 third protein.

Again Tom 400 W is Pro level, even for 10 k miles. I set a new personal record yesterday for a Strava segment here in my neighborhood. Flat, no stop signs, almost no traffic and a moderate tailwind: 5.53 km in 7min 23 sec; average speed 45 km/hr. Average power of 259 Watt, measured with a power meter. Average heartbeat of 167 bpm. Overall place 44 out of 4070.. First place out of 207 in this years classification in my age category: 55-64 yr. I am 62 y old. So I'm above average and nowhere near 400 W for a shorter distance. Again 400 Watt is Pro level.

Lou

I have the idea that you don't climb Lou. You absolutely must generate a lot of power to climb and the 12 or more percentage grades can take power in the 400 to 600 category just to crest.

Well I certainly don't climb as much as I would like but I have my moments and I have those moments for 30 years now:

https://connect.garmin.com/modern/activity/3820852059

That aside grade has little to do with power. You only need the proper gearing. I can haul 85 kg 850 meter up in an hour. The average power needed for that is (mass*gravitational acceleration*elevation gain)/time in sec = (85*9.81*850)/3600 Nm/sec (= Watt) = 197 Watt. I can use the same available power to go fast against a headwind. There is nothing special about climbing when we talk about power needed. Accelerating after a corner or sprinting over a highway overpass you can easily exceed 600 Watt, but only for a short time. 400 Watt average over a distance of 16 km is a hard to believe value. Try a proper power meter and look at the data during a ride.


Stages. Its the best. https://stagescycling.com/us/products/power/

-- Jay Beattie.

Just out of curiosity what do you need that for? My brother has one and while he has high average speeds the power output doesn't seem particularly impressive. Racers use it in a race so that they don't go too hard too early - are you racing?


No, I'm trying to support my son's employer. Training with power is SOP for racers and sport riders these days. I'm not into data, because its mostly depressing, but some people love it -- like most of my friends. And god bless them for supporting Stages. If it's good enough for Sky/Ineos, its good enough for you! https://www.teamineos.com/sponsors/stages Offices in Portland Ory-gun. You need one because you quote all these whacky power figures calculated from god-knows-what. Get a real power meter with your savvy investment earnings.

-- Jay Beattie.


You don't invest do you? If you did you'd have some idea of what the market is doing lately.


Let me check my investments. Hmmmm. I certainly made enough this month to buy a power meter, among other things. Not so good for you? Sorry your guy has thrown the equities market into spasms. Should have bought real estate.

If you believe that a power meter is good for anything other than a racer monitoring his power output in a race soas not to overwhelm himself at the wrong time then it is a good thing you are a lawyer. As an athlete you'd be a failure within minutes.


You natter on about your spectacular power output and then claim that an actual measuring device is only for racers. So for non-racers like you who are clearly interested in power, what is the option -- some faith-based measuring device? Astrology? Measuring power is more than just timing efforts. Many people train with power to improve fitness, ensure recovery, etc., etc. There are actually whole books about it!

-- Jay Beattie.

  #26  
Old August 13th 19, 05:55 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
[email protected]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 451
Default Recovery and Diet

On Tuesday, August 13, 2019 at 6:09:24 PM UTC+2, Tom Kunich wrote:
On Monday, August 12, 2019 at 5:35:48 PM UTC-7, Claus Aßmann wrote:
Tom Kunich wrote:

10K I have generated as much as 400 watts over that distance


So you can _average_ 400 W for 16 kilometers ("10K") (i.e., for
about 25 minutes)?
How did you measure that power output?

--
Note: please read the netiquette before posting. I will almost never
reply to top-postings which include a full copy of the previous
article(s) at the end because it's annoying, shows that the poster
is too lazy to trim his article, and it's wasting the time of all readers.


You measure that output by weight, approximated frontal area, wind speed and time for the distance. Power meters cannot give you a more accurate reading than that. In fact, the most common power meters are built-in to cranks. Aside from the fact that most only read directly from half a crank, they also do not read accurately for actual power. They read via distortion of the cranks meaning that you have to have precise control of the metallurgy and perfect installation angle.


They are all calibrated Tom.


For instance, last year I did 10K into a 20 mph wind in 21 minutes. The combined weight was 94 kg and the frontal area about .79 meters^2.


Almost 46 km/hr into a headwind of 32 km/hr for 16 km? Indeed you a Pro level material Tom at your age. Hat off.


The only real accurate power meters are rear hub mechanisms which can be fully machined so that every component is as accurate as possible.


Rear hub power meters don't take drive train losses into account. I put my money on well calibrated crank or pedal based power meters.

Lou
  #27  
Old August 13th 19, 07:21 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Claus Amann
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Posts: 17
Default Recovery and Diet

Tom Kunich wrote:

the most common power meters are built-in to cranks.
Aside from the fact that most only read directly from half a crank,


As long as the power meter isn't only in a single crank _arm_, it
measure the total outout (check how the power goes to the rear
wheel...)

PROS do not produce this level of power for 10K - they can do it for 100K.


Please tell us which "PROS" can generate 400W for 100K. (BTW: are
you talking about km (kilo meters, metric) or something else when
you write "K"?) You might want to look at the power output for the
hour record -- obviously that kind of power can NOT be achieved for
two hours.
  #28  
Old August 13th 19, 09:14 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Sir Ridesalot
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 4,407
Default Recovery and Diet

On Tuesday, August 13, 2019 at 2:21:18 PM UTC-4, Claus Aßmann wrote:
Tom Kunich wrote:

the most common power meters are built-in to cranks.
Aside from the fact that most only read directly from half a crank,


As long as the power meter isn't only in a single crank _arm_, it
measure the total outout (check how the power goes to the rear
wheel...)

PROS do not produce this level of power for 10K - they can do it for 100K.


Please tell us which "PROS" can generate 400W for 100K. (BTW: are
you talking about km (kilo meters, metric) or something else when
you write "K"?) You might want to look at the power output for the
hour record -- obviously that kind of power can NOT be achieved for
two hours.


Tom is using K (1,000) instead of km (1) by mistake.

Cheers
  #29  
Old August 13th 19, 09:31 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Joerg[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 5,801
Default Recovery and Diet

On 2019-08-12 15:58, Tom Kunich wrote:
On Sunday, August 11, 2019 at 1:46:55 PM UTC-7,
wrote:
On Sunday, August 11, 2019 at 10:00:57 PM UTC+2, Tom Kunich wrote:
Personal experience and Global Cycling News programming often
disagree as they have speaking about Ketone diets.

As it turns out, a weight loss diet and their idea of a Ketone
dirt are more or less the same thing. Protein and Fats and no
carbohydrates.

Since my wife has been trying to lose weight (and has been
successful) I've ended up eating GCN's sort of Ketone Diet.

It hasn't have any positive effect on my performance and I can
tell you that. Yet when I stop on a ride and have a coffee and a
sugar roll, I get not only a boost in performance but I feel a
lot better after the ride without the need to fall asleep in the
lounge chair before I can even put the bike away.

Now what this is telling me is that if you are on the Ketone Diet
your (or perhaps only my) liver simply cannot metabolize fat fast
enough to maintain a performance level, but the speed with which
I can metabolize carbohydrates is enough to hold my performance
levels (which, granted are only around 200 Watts on a good day)
for my normal rides of around 40-60 miles with a lot of
climbing.

Now if we are talking a scant 10K I have generated as much as 400
watts over that distance a couple of times this year.


Even in the Pro peloton the effect of ketons is questioned. Best
and cheapest recovery drink is 0.5 liter of low fat choco drink: 2
third carbs and 1 third protein.


For me that would be a nice pint of Belgian Tripel 8-)

The pros seem to agree:

http://inrng.com/medias/img/amstelpodium2013.jpg111


Again Tom 400 W is Pro level, even for 10 k miles. I set a new
personal record yesterday for a Strava segment here in my
neighborhood. Flat, no stop signs, almost no traffic and a moderate
tailwind: 5.53 km in 7min 23 sec; average speed 45 km/hr. Average
power of 259 Watt, measured with a power meter. Average heartbeat
of 167 bpm. Overall place 44 out of 4070. First place out of 207 in
this years classification in my age category: 55-64 yr. I am 62 y
old. So I'm above average and nowhere near 400 W for a shorter
distance. Again 400 Watt is Pro level.

Lou


That is faster than hell.


It is. Once I rode with a client/friend. He kept it around 25mph or
40km/h all the time. After about 25mins of this I had enough. My tongue
was on the handlebar and my heart was racing. I told him I'd continue on
my own and then put-putted home.


Four years ago with a good tailwind I did 5 miles (8 Km) a little
faster than that average and I had to come to a complete stop every
1/2 mile and wait for a stop light to change. Then accelerate up to
top speed again trying to get to the next light before it turned red
so that I would catch the synchronization. I never made it and I came
in a couple of minutes after the group I was with who were on the
other side of the lights and never had to stop. Though when I pulled
into the parking lot of the Century I was so far gone I couldn't find
the car because there was a police car pulled in front of the
driveway into that particular parking lot and I didn't even realize
it.

I wondered around for five minutes before wandering back and the cop
car being gone found the parking lot with the entire group waiting
for me. And then having to hear about how slow I was.


My cop car (in Germany) pulled up behind me and he commanded me to pull
over, via speaker, loudly and with a drill sergeant's growl. The cop
gave me a speeding ticket, on a bicycle! Turned out I had gone too far
above in a 30km/h zone. The fact that my bike didn't have a speedometer
and that I was a Dutch resident did not get me out of a ticket.

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/
  #30  
Old August 13th 19, 10:15 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Tom Kunich[_5_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 625
Default Recovery and Diet

On Tuesday, August 13, 2019 at 9:46:42 AM UTC-7, jbeattie wrote:
On Tuesday, August 13, 2019 at 8:54:04 AM UTC-7, Tom Kunich wrote:
On Monday, August 12, 2019 at 4:27:49 PM UTC-7, jbeattie wrote:
On Monday, August 12, 2019 at 3:05:11 PM UTC-7, Tom Kunich wrote:
On Monday, August 12, 2019 at 1:04:22 PM UTC-7, jbeattie wrote:
On Monday, August 12, 2019 at 12:43:05 PM UTC-7, wrote:
On Monday, August 12, 2019 at 8:41:28 PM UTC+2, Tom Kunich wrote:
On Sunday, August 11, 2019 at 1:46:55 PM UTC-7, wrote:
On Sunday, August 11, 2019 at 10:00:57 PM UTC+2, Tom Kunich wrote:
Personal experience and Global Cycling News programming often disagree as they have speaking about Ketone diets.

As it turns out, a weight loss diet and their idea of a Ketone dirt are more or less the same thing. Protein and Fats and no carbohydrates.

Since my wife has been trying to lose weight (and has been successful) I've ended up eating GCN's sort of Ketone Diet.

It hasn't have any positive effect on my performance and I can tell you that. Yet when I stop on a ride and have a coffee and a sugar roll, I get not only a boost in performance but I feel a lot better after the ride without the need to fall asleep in the lounge chair before I can even put the bike away.

Now what this is telling me is that if you are on the Ketone Diet your (or perhaps only my) liver simply cannot metabolize fat fast enough to maintain a performance level, but the speed with which I can metabolize carbohydrates is enough to hold my performance levels (which, granted are only around 200 Watts on a good day) for my normal rides of around 40-60 miles with a lot of climbing.

Now if we are talking a scant 10K I have generated as much as 400 watts over that distance a couple of times this year.

Even in the Pro peloton the effect of ketons is questioned. Best and cheapest recovery drink is 0.5 liter of low fat choco drink: 2 third carbs and 1 third protein.

Again Tom 400 W is Pro level, even for 10 k miles. I set a new personal record yesterday for a Strava segment here in my neighborhood. Flat, no stop signs, almost no traffic and a moderate tailwind: 5.53 km in 7min 23 sec; average speed 45 km/hr. Average power of 259 Watt, measured with a power meter. Average heartbeat of 167 bpm. Overall place 44 out of 4070. First place out of 207 in this years classification in my age category: 55-64 yr. I am 62 y old. So I'm above average and nowhere near 400 W for a shorter distance. Again 400 Watt is Pro level.

Lou

I have the idea that you don't climb Lou. You absolutely must generate a lot of power to climb and the 12 or more percentage grades can take power in the 400 to 600 category just to crest.

Well I certainly don't climb as much as I would like but I have my moments and I have those moments for 30 years now:

https://connect.garmin.com/modern/activity/3820852059

That aside grade has little to do with power. You only need the proper gearing. I can haul 85 kg 850 meter up in an hour. The average power needed for that is (mass*gravitational acceleration*elevation gain)/time in sec = (85*9.81*850)/3600 Nm/sec (= Watt) = 197 Watt. I can use the same available power to go fast against a headwind. There is nothing special about climbing when we talk about power needed. Accelerating after a corner or sprinting over a highway overpass you can easily exceed 600 Watt, but only for a short time. 400 Watt average over a distance of 16 km is a hard to believe value. Try a proper power meter and look at the data during a ride.


Stages. Its the best. https://stagescycling.com/us/products/power/

-- Jay Beattie.

Just out of curiosity what do you need that for? My brother has one and while he has high average speeds the power output doesn't seem particularly impressive. Racers use it in a race so that they don't go too hard too early - are you racing?

No, I'm trying to support my son's employer. Training with power is SOP for racers and sport riders these days. I'm not into data, because its mostly depressing, but some people love it -- like most of my friends. And god bless them for supporting Stages. If it's good enough for Sky/Ineos, its good enough for you! https://www.teamineos.com/sponsors/stages Offices in Portland Ory-gun. You need one because you quote all these whacky power figures calculated from god-knows-what. Get a real power meter with your savvy investment earnings.

-- Jay Beattie.


You don't invest do you? If you did you'd have some idea of what the market is doing lately.


Let me check my investments. Hmmmm. I certainly made enough this month to buy a power meter, among other things. Not so good for you? Sorry your guy has thrown the equities market into spasms. Should have bought real estate.

If you believe that a power meter is good for anything other than a racer monitoring his power output in a race soas not to overwhelm himself at the wrong time then it is a good thing you are a lawyer. As an athlete you'd be a failure within minutes.


You natter on about your spectacular power output and then claim that an actual measuring device is only for racers. So for non-racers like you who are clearly interested in power, what is the option -- some faith-based measuring device? Astrology? Measuring power is more than just timing efforts.. Many people train with power to improve fitness, ensure recovery, etc., etc. There are actually whole books about it!

-- Jay Beattie.


Jay, unlike you I don't need to check my investments. I get a report every month and through that horrible month last month I still made enough to buy all the power meters I wanted if I ever wanted one. Despite changing from one investment firm to another in the last two months at Merrill Lynch I've made 8%. Now I auppoaw you're going to tell me you made more.
 




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