Chainline and pedal alignment for old Cannondale

On Saturday, November 30, 2013 5:18:46 AM UTC, Clive George wrote:
On 30/11/2013 03:34, Andre Jute wrote:

On Saturday, November 30, 2013 2:58:49 AM UTC, User Bp wrote:



Is there a simple correspondence between bottom bracket cartridge



"size" and the overall length in the Sheldon Brown table? Is it



possible to reverse cartridge bottom brackets left-to-right to exploit



asymmetry relative to centerline??





Cartridge bottom brackets are handed. If you turn them over, they'll spin themselves loose by precession.



More importantly, they won't even screw in.

*Now* you tell me? -- Woody Allen

John B. wrote:

Bottom bracket "brackets"? You mean the cups? If so you can't switch
them. One is R.H. thread the other L.H.

Well, not quite. It's understood that left and right threads are reverse
hand, but I was wondering if anybody made BB cartridges with retainers
separate from the bearing/spindle package, so that the latter could be
reversed left to right for a wider variety of fits. It seemed obvious
when I wrote it ;-(

Guess not.

Thanks for reading,

bob prohaska

User Bp wrote:
John B. wrote:

Bottom bracket "brackets"? You mean the cups? If so you can't switch
them. One is R.H. thread the other L.H.

Well, not quite. It's understood that left and right threads are
reverse hand, but I was wondering if anybody made BB cartridges with
retainers separate from the bearing/spindle package, so that the
latter could be reversed left to right for a wider variety of fits.
It seemed obvious when I wrote it ;-(

Guess not.

Thanks for reading,

bob prohaska

Phil Wood does - at a price. All of his cartridges have separate left and
right screw-in retainers.
www.philwood.com
They do cartridges with assymmetric spindles - see under online store.
However, assymmetric cartridges from mass manufacturers are very rare these
days.
PH

On 11/29/2013 8:58 PM, User Bp wrote:
Andre Jute wrote:
Bob, you're pushing yourself deeper and deeper into the quicksand. These guys are used to fitting bottom brackets to bikes that use standard components, either 110 or 113mm. If the bike isn't standard, the rule of thumb doesn't run. Here, again, is the decision tree which delivers the correct answer.

[big snip]

On this bike, the tightest constraints are to clear the chainstays and keep
the chain within reach of the front derailer. Aft of that the chain more or
less takes care of itself using the existing rear derailer.

After a bit(!) of measuring, it looks as if the most nearly correct spindle
for the existing crankset is a size 3K from the table on the Sheldon Brown
website: http://sheldonbrown.com/bbsize.html
The drive side is 33.5 mm long, non drive is 32, overall length 117.5 mm..

Unfortunately, the page also notes that the parts are hard to find, borne
out by a web search. Everybody seems to be using cartridges.

Is there a simple correspondence between bottom bracket cartridge
"size" and the overall length in the Sheldon Brown table? Is it
possible to reverse cartridge bottom brackets left-to-right to exploit
asymmetry relative to centerline??


No, there is not.

If you are using the original SR crank, the spindle format
was asymmetric. That series comprised a variety of designs,
the proportional lengths of left and right being variable as
well.

Modern cartridge units are specified in one number (overall
length) because the spindle lengths are symmetric.

p.s. 117 sounds short for that application. SR Apex was it?

p.p.s. if I recall, 3K spindle is the older taper, leftmost
he
http://www.yellowjersey.org/photosfr...t/3SPINDLE.JPG
for sandcast cranks, a different series altogether. Check that.

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

On 11/29/2013 9:34 PM, Andre Jute wrote:
On Saturday, November 30, 2013 2:58:49 AM UTC, User Bp wrote:
Andre Jute wrote:

Bob, you're pushing yourself deeper and deeper into the quicksand. These guys are used to fitting bottom brackets to bikes that use standard components, either 110 or 113mm. If the bike isn't standard, the rule of thumb doesn't run. Here, again, is the decision tree which delivers the correct answer.



[big snip]



On this bike, the tightest constraints are to clear the chainstays and keep

the chain within reach of the front derailer. Aft of that the chain more or

less takes care of itself using the existing rear derailer.



After a bit(!) of measuring, it looks as if the most nearly correct spindle

for the existing crankset is a size 3K from the table on the Sheldon Brown

website: http://sheldonbrown.com/bbsize.html

The drive side is 33.5 mm long, non drive is 32, overall length 117.5 mm..



Unfortunately, the page also notes that the parts are hard to find, borne

out by a web search. Everybody seems to be using cartridges.



Is there a simple correspondence between bottom bracket cartridge

"size" and the overall length in the Sheldon Brown table? Is it

possible to reverse cartridge bottom brackets left-to-right to exploit

asymmetry relative to centerline??



Thanks for reading,



bob prohaska

Cartridge bottom brackets are handed. If you turn them over, they'll spin themselves loose by precession.

Andre Jute


I assume that's humor, yes?
The cartridge is symmetric and doesn't know or care which
side is which until you slip cups over it.

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

On 11/30/2013 10:25 PM, User Bp wrote:
John B. wrote:

Bottom bracket "brackets"? You mean the cups? If so you can't switch
them. One is R.H. thread the other L.H.

Well, not quite. It's understood that left and right threads are reverse
hand, but I was wondering if anybody made BB cartridges with retainers
separate from the bearing/spindle package, so that the latter could be
reversed left to right for a wider variety of fits. It seemed obvious
when I wrote it ;-(

Guess not.

Thanks for reading,

bob prohaska



Loose-ball spindles may be installed in either direction,
which can be helpful in setting chainline for unusual
applications using an asymmetric spindle.

Modern cartridge sets are symmetric, so flipping it
end-for-end achieves no difference.

A spacer is commonly included with (or may be added to)
cartridge units to accommodate 68 vs 73mm frames or to make
small chainline adjustments. It's mounted under the right
cup flange, between cup and frame, as needed.

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

On Sunday, December 1, 2013 7:43:08 PM UTC, AMuzi wrote:
On 11/29/2013 9:34 PM, Andre Jute wrote:

On Saturday, November 30, 2013 2:58:49 AM UTC, User Bp wrote:

Andre Jute wrote:



Bob, you're pushing yourself deeper and deeper into the quicksand. These guys are used to fitting bottom brackets to bikes that use standard components, either 110 or 113mm. If the bike isn't standard, the rule of thumb doesn't run. Here, again, is the decision tree which delivers the correct answer.







[big snip]







On this bike, the tightest constraints are to clear the chainstays and keep



the chain within reach of the front derailer. Aft of that the chain more or



less takes care of itself using the existing rear derailer.







After a bit(!) of measuring, it looks as if the most nearly correct spindle



for the existing crankset is a size 3K from the table on the Sheldon Brown



website: http://sheldonbrown.com/bbsize.html



The drive side is 33.5 mm long, non drive is 32, overall length 117.5 mm..







Unfortunately, the page also notes that the parts are hard to find, borne



out by a web search. Everybody seems to be using cartridges.







Is there a simple correspondence between bottom bracket cartridge



"size" and the overall length in the Sheldon Brown table? Is it



possible to reverse cartridge bottom brackets left-to-right to exploit



asymmetry relative to centerline??







Thanks for reading,







bob prohaska



Cartridge bottom brackets are handed. If you turn them over, they'll spin themselves loose by precession.

Andre Jute

I assume that's humor, yes?

What, me tell a joke? Never! They'd run me out of my profession for having a sense of humor.

Andre Jute

On Monday, November 25, 2013 5:52:43 AM UTC-8, wrote:
ima crank ima crank ima crank



http://s3.amazonaws.com/rapgenius/fi..._trash_can.jpg



what you need izza lawyer for a new frame !



we have one...search for Jay Beattie



Jay is a famous west coast lawyer and rep fpr Cdale

More like consumer of Cannondale. My solution . . . spend money and dump old sh**.

http://www.universalcycles.com/shopp...6&category=688

Buy a BB for $17 big-ones and call it a day. http://www.universalcycles.com/shopp...6&category=347

You can also get the Park install tool for $19. Sell all your cup/pin/crank/lock-ring wrenches to the historical reenactors on eBay.

There are also lots of Plan Bs. Buy a cheap square drive triple from Universal. http://www.universalcycles.com/shopp...0&category=688

Or just put up with a bad chain line.

-- Jay Beattie.

Andre Jute wrote:

Cartridge bottom brackets are handed. If you turn them over, they'll spin themselves loose by precession.

Andre Jute

I assume that's humor, yes?

What, me tell a joke? Never! They'd run me out of my profession for having a sense of humor.

Andre Jute

Ok, this is getting interesting, if a bit confused.

The cartridges I've seen have integral threads on the right side. Clearly
non-reversible for a British thread BB.

If there do exist cartridge BBs with separable threaded retainers
that would be a useful discovery.

If not, this thread will self-destruct upon reading....

8-)

bob prohaska

On Mon, 2 Dec 2013 07:55:28 +0000 (UTC), User Bp
wrote:

Andre Jute wrote:

Cartridge bottom brackets are handed. If you turn them over, they'll spin themselves loose by precession.

Andre Jute

I assume that's humor, yes?

What, me tell a joke? Never! They'd run me out of my profession for having a sense of humor.

Andre Jute

Ok, this is getting interesting, if a bit confused.

The cartridges I've seen have integral threads on the right side. Clearly
non-reversible for a British thread BB.

If there do exist cartridge BBs with separable threaded retainers
that would be a useful discovery.

If not, this thread will self-destruct upon reading....

8-)

bob prohaska


There even exist "threadless" bottom brackets. See:
http://store.velo-orange.com/index.p...-brackets.html
--
Cheers,

John B.