Funny Fingers

I've been training loads for the British Etape and am now finding that I'm
getting slightly "funny fingers" on one hand. Basically it's just the little
finger on my left hand, for a number of hours, if not a day, later I cannot
move my little finger back to its normal position and it curls up if I try
and move it. I'm guessing that I've been resting on a nerve or something,
just wondered if anyone had suffered something similar and what to do to
fix? I do try and change hand positions ...

And no, I'm not doing shadow puppetry ..

http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1295/...c9df62.jpg?v=0

Thanks

--
Tour de France Cyclosportive 2007
http://www.justgiving.com/tdfkingston

in message , elyob
') wrote:

I've been training loads for the British Etape and am now finding that
I'm getting slightly "funny fingers" on one hand. Basically it's just the
little finger on my left hand, for a number of hours, if not a day, later
I cannot move my little finger back to its normal position and it curls
up if I try and move it. I'm guessing that I've been resting on a nerve
or something, just wondered if anyone had suffered something similar and
what to do to fix? I do try and change hand positions ...

Palsy. No, I'm serious, but fortunately not a serious palsy. What is
happening is that a nerve is being adversely affected by vibration. You
need to change one of

* gloves
* bar tape or other bar covering
* position
* front forks (carbon ones significantly reduce vibration)

Your object is either to damp out the vibration, or reduce the weight on
your hands so that the nerve doesn't get it so much. It's normally the
nerve that runs through the web of your hand between your thumb and
forefinger that's the problem, but all nerves are vulnerable to
vibration - there's even a palsy called 'sports car palsy' because it used
to affect a significant proportion of drivers of (IIRC) the Triumph TR3,
who habitually leant their leg against the gearbox when driving.

I used to suffer from handlebar palsy quite badly, but cork bar tape and
appropriate gloves have cored it for me. I find that gel doesn't work for
me, but it does work for other people.

--
(Simon Brooke) http://www.jasmine.org.uk/~simon/

Tony Blair's epitaph, #1: Tony Blair lies here.
Tony Blair's epitaph, #2: Trust me.

On Jun 23, 5:15 pm, "elyob" wrote:
I've been training loads for the British Etape and am now finding that I'm
getting slightly "funny fingers" on one hand. Basically it's just the little
finger on my left hand, for a number of hours, if not a day, later I cannot
move my little finger back to its normal position and it curls up if I try
and move it. I'm guessing that I've been resting on a nerve or something,
just wondered if anyone had suffered something similar and what to do to
fix? I do try and change hand positions ...

Basically, what Simon said. There are some specific things you can
try. Specialized make a bar tape called Bar Phat that's supposed to
help with this problem. There are also Marsas pads that go underneath
ordinary tape, and some Audax riders have said positive things about
this. Specialized (again) also make gloves with gel pads that are
meant to relieve pressure on the ulnar nerves. I bought a pair of
these recently and have found them to be very good.

Is there numbness or tingling in the affected hand? With the sort of
nerve damage cyclists commonly get with stepping up the mileage I'd
expect that. If so this ought gradually to repair itself in a number
of weeks or months once you remove the cause. On the other hand, as
you say only one little finger is affected this sounds a little bit
like trigger finger to me. This is a condition of the tendon rather
than the nerve. I'm not an ex-medical student though and I think we
could do with a comment from Helen at this point.

--
Dave...

You have a problem with the ulnar nerve. Your picture is remarkably
similar to those of ulnar nerve palsy in some of my books [1] This runs
in the heel of the hand close to the bony lump you can feel by the ray
bone that goes to the little finger (hook of the hamate). The nature of
ulnar nerve damage is that it is possible to damage the motor branch
without affecting sensory function. It follows that numbness/pins &
needles are not always a feature.

If you can't grip a postcard between your ring and little finger, you
almost deinitely are in trouble; if you can't bring these together at
all, you *are* in trouble. The ulnar nerve also supplies some other hand
muscles, including those to the thumb; can you squeeze a 'cord grip'
type spring toggle without bending your thumb in the middle?

IMO the problem is due to compression of the nerve and its bloood
vessels, not to vibration. You should take _all_ pressure off the heel
of the hand as frequently as possible when cycling. Padded gloves and
bars help diffuse the pressure but do not remove it. (I speculate that
they may cause more trouble in the long term for this reason; you'd take
your hands off the bars if you had pain, but if you have no pain, you
might continue until you have truly mashed the nerve.) The same may
apply to other contact area problems, like saddles/shorts.

I first mashed my left ulnar nerve when I cycled to the Arctic Circle in
1988. By the time I realised I had a problem, I was 10 days into a
three-week trip, cycle-camping solo. There was no pain or numbness. I
changed my cycling style but still returned home with little motor
function. My subsequent Audax exploits caused the problem to recur; I
have permanent damage...

I suspect this problem affects the left hand of right-handed people more
because it has developed quite severely before being noticed and the
right hand gets taken off the bars more for gears and braking.

[1] Ulnar nerve palsy is a medical exam 'classic'. If you have any
friends taking exams, show them your hand as a revision challenge.
--
Helen D. Vecht:
Edgware.

Helen Deborah Vecht wrote:
You have a problem with the ulnar nerve. Your picture is remarkably
similar to those of ulnar nerve palsy in some of my books [1] This
runs in the heel of the hand close to the bony lump you can feel by
the ray bone that goes to the little finger (hook of the hamate). The
nature of ulnar nerve damage is that it is possible to damage the
motor branch without affecting sensory function. It follows that
numbness/pins & needles are not always a feature.


This is not an attempt to frighten you (see below*) but the last time I
had a "trapped ulnar nerve" it turned out to be a brain tumour. If it
gets much worse, or if you start getting uncommanded hand twitches, then
you really do need some checking over.

*however, given that there is a more obvious cause in your case (lots of
riding) I am sure that it will go away if you get the bar tape, riding
position right.

Good luck with the etape.

Peter

--
www.amey.org.uk

Helen Deborah Vecht wrote:


IMO the problem is due to compression of the nerve and its bloood
vessels, not to vibration. You should take _all_ pressure off the heel
of the hand as frequently as possible when cycling. Padded gloves and
bars help diffuse the pressure but do not remove it. (I speculate that
they may cause more trouble in the long term for this reason; you'd take
your hands off the bars if you had pain, but if you have no pain, you
might continue until you have truly mashed the nerve.) The same may
apply to other contact area problems, like saddles/shorts.


I think bars do make a genuine difference. My wrist position for drop
bars is totally different than it is for flat bars. Wrist straight, arms
bent very little pressure/compression. My symptoms are different to
yours in that I experience numbness not motor problems but for me the
symptoms really do disappear totally with drop bars and this is based on
years of experience.

Unfortunately I've never managed to totally solve the saddle/short problem.




I first mashed my left ulnar nerve when I cycled to the Arctic Circle in
1988. By the time I realised I had a problem, I was 10 days into a
three-week trip, cycle-camping solo. There was no pain or numbness. I
changed my cycling style but still returned home with little motor
function. My subsequent Audax exploits caused the problem to recur; I
have permanent damage...

I suspect this problem affects the left hand of right-handed people more
because it has developed quite severely before being noticed and the
right hand gets taken off the bars more for gears and braking.

[1] Ulnar nerve palsy is a medical exam 'classic'. If you have any
friends taking exams, show them your hand as a revision challenge.

Given that it is an exam classic it is a shame doctors seem unable to
remember it in the surgery. (

Nick typed


Helen Deborah Vecht wrote:


IMO the problem is due to compression of the nerve and its bloood
vessels, not to vibration. You should take _all_ pressure off the heel
of the hand as frequently as possible when cycling. Padded gloves and
bars help diffuse the pressure but do not remove it. (I speculate that
they may cause more trouble in the long term for this reason; you'd take
your hands off the bars if you had pain, but if you have no pain, you
might continue until you have truly mashed the nerve.) The same may
apply to other contact area problems, like saddles/shorts.


I think bars do make a genuine difference. My wrist position for drop
bars is totally different than it is for flat bars. Wrist straight, arms
bent very little pressure/compression. My symptoms are different to
yours in that I experience numbness not motor problems but for me the
symptoms really do disappear totally with drop bars and this is based on
years of experience.

In 1988, I was riding a flat-barred mountain bike. I wore gloves but
hadn't yet acquired the Speco gel gloves I used for Audax rides.

I had well-padded drops for Audax.

Unfortunately I've never managed to totally solve the saddle/short problem.

For me the key was getting my bum off the seat and allowing as much air
as possible to cool my shorts. I reserved padding for trips 100 miles.
('Airing my grievances' took on a new meaning...)




I first mashed my left ulnar nerve when I cycled to the Arctic Circle in
1988. By the time I realised I had a problem, I was 10 days into a
three-week trip, cycle-camping solo. There was no pain or numbness. I
changed my cycling style but still returned home with little motor
function. My subsequent Audax exploits caused the problem to recur; I
have permanent damage...


[1] Ulnar nerve palsy is a medical exam 'classic'. If you have any
friends taking exams, show them your hand as a revision challenge.

Given that it is an exam classic it is a shame doctors seem unable to
remember it in the surgery. (

It is a favourite for MRCP, a test rarely taken by GPs...

The ulnar nerve features in a large number of glove adverts on the
wiggle website ;-)

Quick guide to nerves in the hand:

1) Radial nerve: winds round the back of the radius as it broadens just
above the wrist. Supplies sensation only to a small triangular patch at
the back of the base of the thumb. Unlikely to be troublesome in
cyclists who neither wear HYOOGE watches or get into trouble with the
Polis [1]

2) Median nerve arrives in the hand in a tight fibrous tunnel, the
carpal tunnel, in the middle of the wrist (under the base of the 'Life
Line'). Supplies sensation to most of the fingers, except usually half
the ring finger and little finger. Supplies muscle at base of thumb. [2]

3) Ulnar nerve as discussed above. Has separate motor and sensory
branches. Supplies sensation to the little finger and usually half the
ring finger. Motor branch supplies almost ALL small muscles of the hand.
These are the ones that allow you to spread straight fingers apart and
bring them together (interossei). They also allow you to fully
straighten the fingers (lumbricals).[3]



[1] Resisting tight handcuffs classically causes numbness discovered
after a weekend's revelling; challenging sufferers about Polis
encounters can be 'interesting'...

[2] Carpal tunnel syndrome is caused by compression of the median nerve,
usually in condition where a degree of swelling increases tension in a
tight place. Pregnancy, rheumatoid arthritis etc can be examples. A
minor operation to decompress the tunnel may be recommended.

[3] The curved appearance of the OP's little finger is termed 'ulnar clawing'.

--
Helen D. Vecht:
Edgware.

in message , Helen Deborah Vecht
') wrote:

[1] Resisting tight handcuffs classically causes numbness discovered
after a weekend's revelling; challenging sufferers about Polis
encounters can be 'interesting'...

It is, of course, not /only/ the Police who may make use of handcuffs in
the course of a weekend's revelling...

--
(Simon Brooke) http://www.jasmine.org.uk/~simon/

;; All in all you're just another nick in the ball
-- Think Droid

Helen Deborah Vecht wrote:
Nick typed


Helen Deborah Vecht wrote:

IMO the problem is due to compression of the nerve and its bloood
vessels, not to vibration. You should take _all_ pressure off the heel
of the hand as frequently as possible when cycling. Padded gloves and
bars help diffuse the pressure but do not remove it. (I speculate that
they may cause more trouble in the long term for this reason; you'd take
your hands off the bars if you had pain, but if you have no pain, you
might continue until you have truly mashed the nerve.) The same may
apply to other contact area problems, like saddles/shorts.


I think bars do make a genuine difference. My wrist position for drop
bars is totally different than it is for flat bars. Wrist straight, arms
bent very little pressure/compression. My symptoms are different to
yours in that I experience numbness not motor problems but for me the
symptoms really do disappear totally with drop bars and this is based on
years of experience.

In 1988, I was riding a flat-barred mountain bike. I wore gloves but
hadn't yet acquired the Speco gel gloves I used for Audax rides.


Strangely gloves appear to make very little difference to me.

I had well-padded drops for Audax.

Unfortunately I've never managed to totally solve the saddle/short problem.

For me the key was getting my bum off the seat and allowing as much air
as possible to cool my shorts. I reserved padding for trips 100 miles.
('Airing my grievances' took on a new meaning...)


For me it is the nappy like padding that they put in cycling shorts that
causes problems.




[3] The curved appearance of the OP's little finger is termed 'ulnar clawing'.


Actually the the OP's little finger looks positively normal and straight
compared to mine. My pinkies really are bent but that is the bones. Top
joints about 20% angle off straight, curving inwards in the plane of the
hand). It is hereditary, not a problem but it always gives the doctor a
shock ;o)

Nick typed


In 1988, I was riding a flat-barred mountain bike. I wore gloves but
hadn't yet acquired the Spenco gel gloves I used for Audax rides.


Strangely gloves appear to make very little difference to me.

Is that strange, given that they don't remove pressure, just spread it
out? Poorly designed gloves can quite easily concentrate pressure in
*just* the areas you want to protect.

I had well-padded drops for Audax.

Unfortunately I've never managed to totally solve the saddle/short
problem.

For me the key was getting my bum off the seat and allowing as much air
as possible to cool my shorts. I reserved padding for trips 100 miles.
('Airing my grievances' took on a new meaning...)


For me it is the nappy like padding that they put in cycling shorts that
causes problems.


It quite possibly does this to others too...

--
Helen D. Vecht:
Edgware.