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#71
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Inside a Chainglider after 3500km with zero chain maintenance
On 12/04/15 16:26, Ralph Barone wrote:
Lou Holtman wrote: Joe Riel schreef op 12-4-2015 om 5:28: James writes: On 11/04/15 18:05, Lou Holtman wrote: Hey Jay I'm not saying that anyone, Amaricans or Europians, should spend whatever a Rohloff hub costs. I was wondering why you see more Rohloff hubs in Europe on normal bikes (I count 5 or 6 in the bike parking at work just on utility bikes) than in the USA. Ride whatever you like, or can affort. I will only respond if the arguments to not buy a Rohloff hub or an other IGH are not correct such as drag, complexity or weight etc. Last I checked, the weight of a Rohloff hub was quite a bit more than a rear hub with a cassette, front and rear derailleur and one chainring. Did I not add up the weight of components correctly? Besides the price, the wide range and rather coarse steps is a bit off-putting. My normal road bike has a gear range (highest/lowest) under 3, the Moulton's is 3.3. The Rohloff's range is over 5. I'd prefer something with finer steps and smaller range. I might consider one for the Moulton---its original Suntour shifters has remained in friction mode 'cause the indexed never worked properly, and the shifting on it really sucks. But the price would be hard to justify. I'd presumably be stuck with a chain tensioner. The 'big' 13% steps is a 'problem' for road use. Rohloff is meant for ATB use or loaded touring were the gear range is necessary and the big steps less important. My road bikes have derailleur system except the winterbike where maintenance/reliability is more important. Lou Could you squeeze a 2 gear cluster onto a Rohloff hub? A 17-16 with a derailleur would split the Rohloff ratios quite nicely (admittedly, by throwing away the one main advantage of the hub). You can get SA IGH that takes a cassette. You can then effectively do away with the triple chainring and front derailleur. -- JS |
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#72
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Inside a Chainglider after 3500km with zero chain maintenance
On Sunday, April 12, 2015 at 9:22:45 AM UTC+1, James wrote:
On 12/04/15 16:26, Ralph Barone wrote: Lou Holtman @ wrote: Joe Riel schreef op 12-4-2015 om 5:28: James writes: On 11/04/15 18:05, Lou Holtman wrote: Hey Jay I'm not saying that anyone, Amaricans or Europians, should spend whatever a Rohloff hub costs. I was wondering why you see more Rohloff hubs in Europe on normal bikes (I count 5 or 6 in the bike parking at work just on utility bikes) than in the USA. Ride whatever you like, or can affort. I will only respond if the arguments to not buy a Rohloff hub or an other IGH are not correct such as drag, complexity or weight etc. Last I checked, the weight of a Rohloff hub was quite a bit more than a rear hub with a cassette, front and rear derailleur and one chainring. Did I not add up the weight of components correctly? Besides the price, the wide range and rather coarse steps is a bit off-putting. My normal road bike has a gear range (highest/lowest) under 3, the Moulton's is 3.3. The Rohloff's range is over 5. I'd prefer something with finer steps and smaller range. I might consider one for the Moulton---its original Suntour shifters has remained in friction mode 'cause the indexed never worked properly, and the shifting on it really sucks. But the price would be hard to justify. I'd presumably be stuck with a chain tensioner. The 'big' 13% steps is a 'problem' for road use. Rohloff is meant for ATB use or loaded touring were the gear range is necessary and the big steps less important. My road bikes have derailleur system except the winterbike where maintenance/reliability is more important. Lou Could you squeeze a 2 gear cluster onto a Rohloff hub? A 17-16 with a derailleur would split the Rohloff ratios quite nicely (admittedly, by throwing away the one main advantage of the hub). You can get SA IGH that takes a cassette. You can then effectively do away with the triple chainring and front derailleur. -- JS Barone needn't wreck the advantages of the Rohloff to get close-coupled gear steps on a Rohloff installation. He can fit Florian Schlumpff's two speed bottom bracket gearbox, and then still have all the Rolloff advantages, including the capability and advantages of a totally enclosed chain by fitting a Chainglider (which is the subject of this thread -- see first post). Andre Jute |
#73
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Inside a Chainglider after 3500km with zero chain maintenance
so post links describing the Rollo's innards ?
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#74
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Inside a Chainglider after 3500km with zero chain maintenance
On 4/12/2015 4:22 AM, James wrote:
On 12/04/15 16:26, Ralph Barone wrote: Could you squeeze a 2 gear cluster onto a Rohloff hub? A 17-16 with a derailleur would split the Rohloff ratios quite nicely (admittedly, by throwing away the one main advantage of the hub). You can get SA IGH that takes a cassette. You can then effectively do away with the triple chainring and front derailleur. That's a popular setup with Bike Friday folding bikes. See "What is the SRAM 3x9 Dual Drive? " at https://www.bikefriday.com/bicycles/faqs/ (However, our Fridays have more conventional gears: front triple cranks, 9 speed rear derailleurs.) -- - Frank Krygowski |
#75
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Inside a Chainglider after 3500km with zero chain maintenance
Andre Jute wrote:
On Sunday, April 12, 2015 at 9:22:45 AM UTC+1, James wrote: On 12/04/15 16:26, Ralph Barone wrote: Lou Holtman @ wrote: Joe Riel schreef op 12-4-2015 om 5:28: James writes: On 11/04/15 18:05, Lou Holtman wrote: Hey Jay I'm not saying that anyone, Amaricans or Europians, should spend whatever a Rohloff hub costs. I was wondering why you see more Rohloff hubs in Europe on normal bikes (I count 5 or 6 in the bike parking at work just on utility bikes) than in the USA. Ride whatever you like, or can affort. I will only respond if the arguments to not buy a Rohloff hub or an other IGH are not correct such as drag, complexity or weight etc. Last I checked, the weight of a Rohloff hub was quite a bit more than a rear hub with a cassette, front and rear derailleur and one chainring. Did I not add up the weight of components correctly? Besides the price, the wide range and rather coarse steps is a bit off-putting. My normal road bike has a gear range (highest/lowest) under 3, the Moulton's is 3.3. The Rohloff's range is over 5. I'd prefer something with finer steps and smaller range. I might consider one for the Moulton---its original Suntour shifters has remained in friction mode 'cause the indexed never worked properly, and the shifting on it really sucks. But the price would be hard to justify. I'd presumably be stuck with a chain tensioner. The 'big' 13% steps is a 'problem' for road use. Rohloff is meant for ATB use or loaded touring were the gear range is necessary and the big steps less important. My road bikes have derailleur system except the winterbike where maintenance/reliability is more important. Lou Could you squeeze a 2 gear cluster onto a Rohloff hub? A 17-16 with a derailleur would split the Rohloff ratios quite nicely (admittedly, by throwing away the one main advantage of the hub). You can get SA IGH that takes a cassette. You can then effectively do away with the triple chainring and front derailleur. -- JS Barone needn't wreck the advantages of the Rohloff to get close-coupled gear steps on a Rohloff installation. He can fit Florian Schlumpff's two speed bottom bracket gearbox, and then still have all the Rolloff advantages, including the capability and advantages of a totally enclosed chain by fitting a Chainglider (which is the subject of this thread -- see first post). Andre Jute Except the Schlumpf comes with either a 1.65:1 or 2.5:1 ratio. To "fill in the holes" on a Rohloff, you would be looking either for a 1:08.1 or two 1.04:1 ratios. Now it may be that the Schlumpf actually splits a ratio further up in the box, but then you're back to that annoying "up one on this shifter and down four on the other" that so confuses people with derailleurs. PS: Thread drift happens. Live with it. |
#76
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Inside a Chainglider after 3500km with zero chain maintenance
On Sunday, April 12, 2015 at 4:28:55 AM UTC+1, JoeRiel wrote:
James writes: On 11/04/15 18:05, Lou Holtman wrote: Hey Jay I'm not saying that anyone, Amaricans or Europians, should spend whatever a Rohloff hub costs. I was wondering why you see more Rohloff hubs in Europe on normal bikes (I count 5 or 6 in the bike parking at work just on utility bikes) than in the USA. Ride whatever you like, or can affort. I will only respond if the arguments to not buy a Rohloff hub or an other IGH are not correct such as drag, complexity or weight etc. Last I checked, the weight of a Rohloff hub was quite a bit more than a rear hub with a cassette, front and rear derailleur and one chainring. Did I not add up the weight of components correctly? Besides the price, the wide range and rather coarse steps is a bit off-putting. My normal road bike has a gear range (highest/lowest) under 3, the Moulton's is 3.3. The Rohloff's range is over 5. I'd prefer something with finer steps and smaller range. I might consider one for the Moulton---its original Suntour shifters has remained in friction mode 'cause the indexed never worked properly, and the shifting on it really sucks. But the price would be hard to justify. I'd presumably be stuck with a chain tensioner. -- Joe Riel If the Rohloff had less range, the roadies would whine that it doesn't have enough range. But if you consider a big range a disadvantage, there are the Shimano 8-speeds with a range around 300%, which I found quite adequate even in my hilly terrain until I moved up a particularly steep hill. I have tables for gear-inch developments in the Shimano's gears, and speeds, for various chainring/sprocket/cadence combos, if you are really interested, and can publish them; just ask. Samples for Rohloff are he http://coolmainpress.com/BICYCLINGHebieChainglider.html Andre Jute |
#77
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Inside a Chainglider after 3500km with zero chain maintenance
On Sunday, April 12, 2015 at 4:49:12 PM UTC+1, Ralph Barone wrote:
Andre Jute wrote: On Sunday, April 12, 2015 at 9:22:45 AM UTC+1, James wrote: On 12/04/15 16:26, Ralph Barone wrote: Lou Holtman @ wrote: Joe Riel schreef op 12-4-2015 om 5:28: James writes: On 11/04/15 18:05, Lou Holtman wrote: Hey Jay I'm not saying that anyone, Amaricans or Europians, should spend whatever a Rohloff hub costs. I was wondering why you see more Rohloff hubs in Europe on normal bikes (I count 5 or 6 in the bike parking at work just on utility bikes) than in the USA. Ride whatever you like, or can affort. I will only respond if the arguments to not buy a Rohloff hub or an other IGH are not correct such as drag, complexity or weight etc. Last I checked, the weight of a Rohloff hub was quite a bit more than a rear hub with a cassette, front and rear derailleur and one chainring. Did I not add up the weight of components correctly? Besides the price, the wide range and rather coarse steps is a bit off-putting. My normal road bike has a gear range (highest/lowest) under 3, the Moulton's is 3.3. The Rohloff's range is over 5. I'd prefer something with finer steps and smaller range. I might consider one for the Moulton---its original Suntour shifters has remained in friction mode 'cause the indexed never worked properly, and the shifting on it really sucks. But the price would be hard to justify. I'd presumably be stuck with a chain tensioner. The 'big' 13% steps is a 'problem' for road use. Rohloff is meant for ATB use or loaded touring were the gear range is necessary and the big steps less important. My road bikes have derailleur system except the winterbike where maintenance/reliability is more important. Lou Could you squeeze a 2 gear cluster onto a Rohloff hub? A 17-16 with a derailleur would split the Rohloff ratios quite nicely (admittedly, by throwing away the one main advantage of the hub). You can get SA IGH that takes a cassette. You can then effectively do away with the triple chainring and front derailleur. -- JS Barone needn't wreck the advantages of the Rohloff to get close-coupled gear steps on a Rohloff installation. He can fit Florian Schlumpff's two speed bottom bracket gearbox, and then still have all the Rolloff advantages, including the capability and advantages of a totally enclosed chain by fitting a Chainglider (which is the subject of this thread -- see first post). Andre Jute Except the Schlumpf comes with either a 1.65:1 or 2.5:1 ratio. To "fill in the holes" on a Rohloff, you would be looking either for a 1:08.1 or two 1.04:1 ratios. Now it may be that the Schlumpf actually splits a ratio further up in the box, but then you're back to that annoying "up one on this shifter and down four on the other" that so confuses people with derailleurs. A few people use double chainrings and front derailleurs with Rohloff HGB; they think it's the bee's knees. To be fair, the drop handlebar crowd among the tourers do occasionally mention that they would like narrower brackets at the top of the Rohloff range; they're generally guys with road racing backgrounds. PS: Thread drift happens. Live with it. A chain that goes 3500 miles without any cleaning or lubrication added is a genuine technical advance, and it seems likely to hit my arbitrary target of 4506km, but you guys want to talk about a gearbox I've had for six or eight years, and that Chalo had for several more years, and that Sheldon had long ago, that you could have asked Lou about for years and years, and that Pete Creswell and I have discussed here before without anyone else showing much interest? Weird, if you ask me, and more than a little behind the wave. You guys had better not take up surfing when you retire... Andre Jute |
#78
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Inside a Chainglider after 3500km with zero chain maintenance
On Sun, 12 Apr 2015 10:25:39 -0400, Frank Krygowski
wrote: On 4/12/2015 4:22 AM, James wrote: On 12/04/15 16:26, Ralph Barone wrote: Could you squeeze a 2 gear cluster onto a Rohloff hub? A 17-16 with a derailleur would split the Rohloff ratios quite nicely (admittedly, by throwing away the one main advantage of the hub). You can get SA IGH that takes a cassette. You can then effectively do away with the triple chainring and front derailleur. That's a popular setup with Bike Friday folding bikes. See "What is the SRAM 3x9 Dual Drive? " at https://www.bikefriday.com/bicycles/faqs/ (However, our Fridays have more conventional gears: front triple cranks, 9 speed rear derailleurs.) Or use a two or three chain rings and shift the front, which would be a relatively easy modification. A 50-16, for example, gives a 84.38 gear inches while a 49-16 ration is 82.69 which is less then a shift from a 16 to 17 tooth cassette cog which is from 84.38 to 79.41. -- Cheers, John B. |
#79
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Inside a Chainglider after 3500km with zero chain maintenance
MERELY a curiosity
https://www.google.com/#q=ROHLOFF+BI...R+HUB&tbm=shop as for the chain guard what is real is chain cleaning and lubing is necessary o matter what Jute sez. but the Hebe works only with an internal hub. anyway...what's the use able temp range for a Rollo ? run Madison in January ? |
#80
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Inside a Chainglider after 3500km with zero chain maintenance
John B. Slocomb wrote:
On Sun, 12 Apr 2015 10:25:39 -0400, Frank Krygowski wrote: On 4/12/2015 4:22 AM, James wrote: On 12/04/15 16:26, Ralph Barone wrote: Could you squeeze a 2 gear cluster onto a Rohloff hub? A 17-16 with a derailleur would split the Rohloff ratios quite nicely (admittedly, by throwing away the one main advantage of the hub). You can get SA IGH that takes a cassette. You can then effectively do away with the triple chainring and front derailleur. That's a popular setup with Bike Friday folding bikes. See "What is the SRAM 3x9 Dual Drive? " at https://www.bikefriday.com/bicycles/faqs/ (However, our Fridays have more conventional gears: front triple cranks, 9 speed rear derailleurs.) Or use a two or three chain rings and shift the front, which would be a relatively easy modification. A 50-16, for example, gives a 84.38 gear inches while a 49-16 ration is 82.69 which is less then a shift from a 16 to 17 tooth cassette cog which is from 84.38 to 79.41. That's probably the easiest way to split the ratios on a Rohloff, but rear derailleurs shift better than the front ones, so I was just exploring the idea space. |
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