WHY are cyclists riding at night ?

On Saturday, October 4, 2014 5:17:04 PM UTC+1, wrote:
an evident obsession with dynamo generated electricity begs the question.....

Furthermore, the dynamo is just a convenient facilitator. To jump from wanting to ride at night as a natural right of cyclists to "an evident obsession with dynamo generated electricity begs the question", indeed, but the question is: Why are cyclists, typically in America roadies, such fashion victims who take what manufacturers and dealers give them, and let it shape their riding? In this instance, just because most bikes sold in the States don't have lamps on the showroom floor doesn't mean riding at night is unnatural, it simply means that American cyclists are too supine to demand proper lamps and dynamos as standard fitments.

Andre Jute
Who's in charge here?

On Monday, October 6, 2014 9:23:07 AM UTC-4, Andre Jute wrote:
On Saturday, October 4, 2014 5:17:04 PM UTC+1, wrote:



Yo, Daniels, I'm used to Google offering me translations of what you fondly believe to be English, but I don't even get this question: "WHY are cyclists riding at Night ?"



Surely the question is, Why not?

nnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnn


ah no. Question is why is the Dyno Group riding at night ?

Clearly, one escapes into the night. But why ? Or does not 'escape' into the night.

Kinda like the experiential problem of equating statistics to potential danger. There are perspectives from Ohio, from LA.

Obviously night riding is not as safe as day riding but for some, more comfortable. Comfort is not safety..surely not in potential.

( is dyno riding safer than battery riding ? )

https://www.google.com/#q=bicycle+st...n+ day+riding


you're prob with reading my writing is your skills lack quality.

On Monday, October 6, 2014 2:36:15 PM UTC+1, wrote:
On Monday, October 6, 2014 9:23:07 AM UTC-4, Andre Jute wrote:

On Saturday, October 4, 2014 5:17:04 PM UTC+1, wrote:

Yo, Daniels, I'm used to Google offering me translations of what you fondly believe to be English, but I don't even get this question: "WHY are cyclists riding at Night ?"

Surely the question is, Why not?

nnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnn

ah no. Question is why is the Dyno Group riding at night ?

The dyno isn't the motivator here, it is merely a mechanism that makes night riding convenient whenever one wants to ride at night. If your implication is that only batteries are natural, that's more supine fashion-self-victimization by cyclists and particularly roadies; you don't see it outside the anglophone-japanese-roadie nexus.

Clearly, one escapes into the night. But why ? Or does not 'escape' into the night.

"Escapes"? Really? You're a psychologist now?.

Kinda like the experiential problem of equating statistics to potential danger. There are perspectives from Ohio, from LA.

You know what I think of "perspectives from Ohio" -- they're a superior guideline to possibibilites you want to reject out of hand because their source and his logic and morality and statistical "skills" are all severely tainted.

Obviously night riding is not as safe as day riding

Nothing obvious about it at all. If motorists are the chief danger, rather than the road itself, then empty roads are safer. If the road itself is the chief danger, then good lamps or slowing down can mitigate or remove the extra danger. My own experience is that if I don't respect the road, I fall off sooner or later, regardless of whether it is daylight or nighttime.

but for some, more comfortable. Comfort is not safety..surely not in potential.

Crap, and crap again. People who aren't comforatble are easily distracted, and in the extreme can do stupid things out of fear.

( is dyno riding safer than battery riding ? )

It's not an argument I made. I simply said it is more convenient. But it must be safer because batteries can run out of juice in the middle of a ride, whereas dynamos rarely break.

https://www.google.com/#q=bicycle+st...n+ day+riding

What's this, another of your compendium Google searches loaded with lay opinion not worth the time to read? You've been told again and again, give us a single authoritative source, and we might pay attention.

you're prob with reading my writing is your skills lack quality.

Nope. I'm a distinguished writer and teacher of writing ("Jute is a godsend" -- The Times, London, on one of my writing handbooks). My problem with you is that you're a smart arse who thinks he knows better than everyone who speaks and writes decent English. You don't. That garbage you spew doesn't make you clever, it makes incomprehensible. In English there is no greater sin.

Andre Jute
Strunk wants you

On 10/6/2014 9:28 AM, Andre Jute wrote:
On Saturday, October 4, 2014 5:17:04 PM UTC+1, wrote:
an evident obsession with dynamo generated electricity begs the question....

Furthermore, the dynamo is just a convenient facilitator. To jump from wanting to ride at night as a natural right of cyclists to "an evident obsession with dynamo generated electricity begs the question", indeed, but the question is: Why are cyclists, typically in America roadies, such fashion victims who take what manufacturers and dealers give them, and let it shape their riding? In this instance, just because most bikes sold in the States don't have lamps on the showroom floor doesn't mean riding at night is unnatural, it simply means that American cyclists are too supine to demand proper lamps and dynamos as standard fitments.

I can get any lights that I want, even those made in Germany, and either
install them on my bike or have the LBS install them. The LBS has
several dozen models on the rack next to the checkout counter.I have a
couple different ones depending on need that I arrange on my own. It's
not rocket science. Or at least it shouldn't be though reading through
the recent threads here, one would wonder.

Why they aren't installed on the new bikes by default I would guess has
more to do with which ones, if any the buyer wants. If I'm doing TTs
and never need to race after dark, why should I pay for a light that I
don't need? And who gets to choose which type of lights the bikes come
with?

As far as I can see, this whole thread is a straw man. This is similar
to Frank's post about people not riding at night having toy bikes. The
same old crap about the roadies versus the "serious" cyclists. It's
still crap and always has been.

I guess that there are people who are afraid to ride at night. I doubt
it's because their bikes don't have lamps. Mandating that they come
installed on all bikes doesn't make sense. Mandating that you can't
ride at night without lights makes more sense in my opinion.

On 10/6/2014 8:16 AM, Duane wrote:

I guess that there are people who are afraid to ride at night. I doubt
it's because their bikes don't have lamps.

Some of them are not aware of the advances in lighting technology that
make it possible to both be conspicuous and see the road well. They're
thinking about the old bottle dynamos with a 2.4W incandescent bulb
http://tinyurl.com/bottledynamo, or thinking of those old chrome
headlights with 2 D cell batteries inside
http://tinyurl.com/dcellchromebicyclelight.

If they are ever convinced to check out better lights and go to a
bicycle shop, they may end up at a shop with lights in the $200 price
range and forget about it. Or they may do a kludge like this:
http://802.11junk.com/jeffl/pics/bicycles/slides/bicycle-flashlight.html
with a ginormous flashlight.

On Monday, October 6, 2014 4:16:35 PM UTC+1, Duane wrote:
On 10/6/2014 9:28 AM, Andre Jute wrote:

On Saturday, October 4, 2014 5:17:04 PM UTC+1, wrote:

an evident obsession with dynamo generated electricity begs the question....



Furthermore, the dynamo is just a convenient facilitator. To jump from wanting to ride at night as a natural right of cyclists to "an evident obsession with dynamo generated electricity begs the question", indeed, but the question is: Why are cyclists, typically in America roadies, such fashion victims who take what manufacturers and dealers give them, and let it shape their riding? In this instance, just because most bikes sold in the States don't have lamps on the showroom floor doesn't mean riding at night is unnatural, it simply means that American cyclists are too supine to demand proper lamps and dynamos as standard fitments.



I can get any lights that I want, even those made in Germany, and either

install them on my bike or have the LBS install them. The LBS has

several dozen models on the rack next to the checkout counter.I have a

couple different ones depending on need that I arrange on my own. It's

not rocket science. Or at least it shouldn't be though reading through

the recent threads here, one would wonder.



Why they aren't installed on the new bikes by default I would guess has

more to do with which ones, if any the buyer wants. If I'm doing TTs

and never need to race after dark, why should I pay for a light that I

don't need? And who gets to choose which type of lights the bikes come

with?



As far as I can see, this whole thread is a straw man. This is similar

to Frank's post about people not riding at night having toy bikes. The

same old crap about the roadies versus the "serious" cyclists. It's

still crap and always has been.



I guess that there are people who are afraid to ride at night. I doubt

it's because their bikes don't have lamps. Mandating that they come

installed on all bikes doesn't make sense. Mandating that you can't

ride at night without lights makes more sense in my opinion.

Of course, you don't see the cyclists who are afraid to ride at night. But one of the worst stupidities I do see cyclist commit is riding after dark without lamps, and very often in dark clothes without any reflexives. And not even a reflector on the bike. The reflector on the bike comes on the bike by law, but the LBS routinely takes it off because it fashionable for the kids to lose it, first thing.

About dynamos and lamps as standard equipment on bikes, in Europe (not including the UK or Ireland!) they're standard equipment on bikes that require them, commuters, utility bikes, suchlike. The rationale for fitting them at the factory has been well made by Scharfie in the past, but as usual he wasn't given credit for talking sense because the resident scum sprayed hatred all over his post: as a matter of economics, it costs a handful of dollars, maximum, to fit a high quality LED lamp and a high quality dynamo at the factory, and a couple of hundred, as Jay is discovering, to do it in the aftermarket. It would therefore make sense to fit them to all bikes, and let those who don't want them specify a "delete option". Mandatory fitment is another story, without necessarily the same happy outcome. The dissatisfactions with BUMM and other German lamps stem mainly from the restrictions forced on the manufacturers by the legislators.

Andre Jute

On 10/6/2014 12:45 PM, sms wrote:
On 10/6/2014 8:16 AM, Duane wrote:

I guess that there are people who are afraid to ride at night. I doubt
it's because their bikes don't have lamps.

Some of them are not aware of the advances in lighting technology that
make it possible to both be conspicuous and see the road well. They're
thinking about the old bottle dynamos with a 2.4W incandescent bulb
http://tinyurl.com/bottledynamo, or thinking of those old chrome
headlights with 2 D cell batteries inside
http://tinyurl.com/dcellchromebicyclelight.

If they are ever convinced to check out better lights and go to a
bicycle shop, they may end up at a shop with lights in the $200 price
range and forget about it. Or they may do a kludge like this:
http://802.11junk.com/jeffl/pics/bicycles/slides/bicycle-flashlight.html
with a ginormous flashlight.




No, I mean that some people are probably afraid to ride at night
regardless of what lights they use. Just like some are afraid to ride
in traffic or up hills or in the rain. I doubt that anyone is afraid to
ride at night because they don't know that they can get good enough
lights. I guess it's possible but it doesn't seem likely.

On 10/6/2014 1:02 PM, Andre Jute wrote:
On Monday, October 6, 2014 4:16:35 PM UTC+1, Duane wrote:
On 10/6/2014 9:28 AM, Andre Jute wrote:

On Saturday, October 4, 2014 5:17:04 PM UTC+1, wrote:

an evident obsession with dynamo generated electricity begs the question....



Furthermore, the dynamo is just a convenient facilitator. To jump from wanting to ride at night as a natural right of cyclists to "an evident obsession with dynamo generated electricity begs the question", indeed, but the question is: Why are cyclists, typically in America roadies, such fashion victims who take what manufacturers and dealers give them, and let it shape their riding? In this instance, just because most bikes sold in the States don't have lamps on the showroom floor doesn't mean riding at night is unnatural, it simply means that American cyclists are too supine to demand proper lamps and dynamos as standard fitments.



I can get any lights that I want, even those made in Germany, and either

install them on my bike or have the LBS install them. The LBS has

several dozen models on the rack next to the checkout counter.I have a

couple different ones depending on need that I arrange on my own. It's

not rocket science. Or at least it shouldn't be though reading through

the recent threads here, one would wonder.



Why they aren't installed on the new bikes by default I would guess has

more to do with which ones, if any the buyer wants. If I'm doing TTs

and never need to race after dark, why should I pay for a light that I

don't need? And who gets to choose which type of lights the bikes come

with?



As far as I can see, this whole thread is a straw man. This is similar

to Frank's post about people not riding at night having toy bikes. The

same old crap about the roadies versus the "serious" cyclists. It's

still crap and always has been.



I guess that there are people who are afraid to ride at night. I doubt

it's because their bikes don't have lamps. Mandating that they come

installed on all bikes doesn't make sense. Mandating that you can't

ride at night without lights makes more sense in my opinion.

Of course, you don't see the cyclists who are afraid to ride at night. But one of the worst stupidities I do see cyclist commit is riding after dark without lamps, and very often in dark clothes without any reflexives. And not even a reflector on the bike. The reflector on the bike comes on the bike by law, but the LBS routinely takes it off because it fashionable for the kids to lose it, first thing.


There I agree with you. Riding at night without lights is a problem.
And as far as the reflectors, my wife just bought a bike and realized it
didn't have any reflectors when she got it home. I went to the LBS and
had them give me some. They said that Specialized didn't supply them
but he gave me some off the shelf. I was a bit surprised as I though
the LBS just chucked them.

About dynamos and lamps as standard equipment on bikes, in Europe (not including the UK or Ireland!) they're standard equipment on bikes that require them, commuters, utility bikes, suchlike. The rationale for fitting them at the factory has been well made by Scharfie in the past, but as usual he wasn't given credit for talking sense because the resident scum sprayed hatred all over his post: as a matter of economics, it costs a handful of dollars, maximum, to fit a high quality LED lamp and a high quality dynamo at the factory, and a couple of hundred, as Jay is discovering, to do it in the aftermarket. It would therefore make sense to fit them to all bikes, and let those who don't want them specify a "delete option". Mandatory fitment is another story, without necessarily the same happy outcome. The dissatisfactions with BUMM and other German lamps stem mainly from the restrictions forced on the manufacturers by the legislators.


Maybe this would make sense with touring or commuter bikes.

Anyway I think in general if lights at night were mandatory for the
rider, the market would increase and the price would go down.

On Monday, October 6, 2014 10:21:52 AM UTC-4, Andre Jute wrote:
On Monday, October 6, 2014 2:36:15 PM UTC+1, wrote:

On Monday, October 6, 2014 9:23:07 AM UTC-4, Andre Jute wrote:



On Saturday, October 4, 2014 5:17:04 PM UTC+1, wrote:



Yo, Daniels, I'm used to Google offering me translations of what you fondly believe to be English, but I don't even get this question: "WHY are cyclists riding at Night ?"



Surely the question is, Why not?



nnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnn



ah no. Question is why is the Dyno Group riding at night ?



The dyno isn't the motivator here, it is merely a mechanism that makes night riding convenient whenever one wants to ride at night. If your implication is that only batteries are natural, that's more supine fashion-self-victimization by cyclists and particularly roadies; you don't see it outside the anglophone-japanese-roadie nexus.



Clearly, one escapes into the night. But why ? Or does not 'escape' into the night.



"Escapes"? Really? You're a psychologist now?.



Kinda like the experiential problem of equating statistics to potential danger. There are perspectives from Ohio, from LA.



You know what I think of "perspectives from Ohio" -- they're a superior guideline to possibibilites you want to reject out of hand because their source and his logic and morality and statistical "skills" are all severely tainted.



Obviously night riding is not as safe as day riding



Nothing obvious about it at all. If motorists are the chief danger, rather than the road itself, then empty roads are safer. If the road itself is the chief danger, then good lamps or slowing down can mitigate or remove the extra danger. My own experience is that if I don't respect the road, I fall off sooner or later, regardless of whether it is daylight or nighttime.



but for some, more comfortable. Comfort is not safety..surely not in potential.



Crap, and crap again. People who aren't comforatble are easily distracted, and in the extreme can do stupid things out of fear.



( is dyno riding safer than battery riding ? )



It's not an argument I made. I simply said it is more convenient. But it must be safer because batteries can run out of juice in the middle of a ride, whereas dynamos rarely break.



https://www.google.com/#q=bicycle+st...n+ day+riding



What's this, another of your compendium Google searches loaded with lay opinion not worth the time to read? You've been told again and again, give us a single authoritative source, and we might pay attention.



you're prob with reading my writing is your skills lack quality.



Nope. I'm a distinguished writer and teacher of writing ("Jute is a godsend" -- The Times, London, on one of my writing handbooks). My problem with you is that you're a smart arse who thinks he knows better than everyone who speaks and writes decent English. You don't. That garbage you spew doesn't make you clever, it makes incomprehensible. In English there is no greater sin.



Andre Jute

Strunk wants you

RBT is a bicycle group not a literary crit group.

language criticism in discussion groups is off track

RBT's mainstream is now 'lighting equipment' ...JB Portland joined last week !

there's a serious threshold here as previously mentioned that TdF and traditional geometry forbade front axle weighting, now throw into the barrel with dynamo generation where balanced weight paced batts would serve 'best'

....but best is imagined here as I have neither.

AJ, In Earth Rank you are over the horizon from here, Dude.

Which is where the Lesser Times wanted God to send you ?


eheheyayayyyayyyaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa aaa HA

getcha motah Runnin'....

Get out the Highway......

On 10/6/2014 11:14 AM, Duane wrote:
On 10/6/2014 1:02 PM, Andre Jute wrote:

snip

About dynamos and lamps as standard equipment on bikes, in Europe (not
including the UK or Ireland!) they're standard equipment on bikes that
require them, commuters, utility bikes, suchlike. The rationale for
fitting them at the factory has been well made by Scharfie in the
past, but as usual he wasn't given credit for talking sense because
the resident scum sprayed hatred all over his post: as a matter of
economics, it costs a handful of dollars, maximum, to fit a high
quality LED lamp and a high quality dynamo at the factory, and a
couple of hundred, as Jay is discovering, to do it in the aftermarket.
It would therefore make sense to fit them to all bikes, and let those
who don't want them specify a "delete option". Mandatory fitment is
another story, without necessarily the same happy outcome. The
dissatisfactions with BUMM and other German lamps stem mainly from the
restrictions forced on the manufacturers by the legislators.


Maybe this would make sense with touring or commuter bikes.

Anyway I think in general if lights at night were mandatory for the
rider, the market would increase and the price would go down.

The bicycle manufacturers need to take the lead and offer a "lighting
package" that doesn't involve buying all the bits and pieces,
separately, at retail price.

A lighting package upgrade, at the time of purchase of a new bicycle,
should cost under $100. The shop would get some dynamo wheels, plus
front and rear lamps from the bicycle manufacturer and would not make
the Keystone margins that they normally make on parts and accessories
(100%), only the normal 35-40% margin that they make a new bicycle. The
wheel cost would be the difference between the stock wheel and the
dynamo wheel, not in addition to the stock wheel. A Shimano or SP dynamo
hub would cost the bicycle manufacturer only about $10 or so more than a
regular hub.

None of this will ever happen. Well I should not be so cynical. A store
like REI could get their suppliers to offer something like this. It
can't be just a $1000 Breezer that has a dynamo light available. There
is so much bicycle commuting and night riding in my area that I probably
have a skewed view of what is commercially viable.