You too envy Europe?

On 6/7/2016 5:03 AM, W. Wesley Groleau wrote:
On 06-07-2016 09:33, John B. wrote:
While I do not doubt you a bit, but I find it difficult to
comprehend.
Granted I went overseas to work nearly forty years ago but
still. How
in the world can one not live on $66,000 a year? The
average U.S.
family in 2015 is 3.14, call it 4. So one NEEDS a 3
bedroom house
(assuming a son and a daughter), with an indoor
toilet/bath room and a
kitchen. How much does that cost, for Lord's sake?

Needs? The number of families living in two rooms or less
is probably bigger than the number of families in USA.
Sure, WE would say their standard of living is intolerable,
and yet they are living.

I have two Dutch friends who lived in Suriname for a few
years. They told me of a person who had a business with
several employees, and he thought the standard wage was too
low. So he gave all his employees 2.5 times as much per
hour. The result was that in two days they made what most
people made in a week, and therefore (in their minds) they
didn't need to come to work on Wednesday/Thursday/Friday.

I have spent barely over US$ 31,000 in the 603 days since I
retired. That has supported more than a dozen plane flights
and half of those days living in eight non-U.S. countries.
The problem is not how much we need but how much the
propaganda has persuaded us we need. On my Social Security,
I can live comfortable in 95% of the cities in the world.
In places like New York, Geneva, London I can get by but
wouldn't be happy.


?? you don't pay the property tax??

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

On 06-07-2016 14:54, AMuzi wrote:
?? you don't pay the property tax??

I have no property except what I can carry. When I retired, I sold the
house to my son. My cost-of-living estimates are based on one-bedroom
apartment (rented) outside of city center, 80% of meals in restaurants
but not expensive ones. Geneva: US$ 3300/month. New York City: 2200.
Mumbai: 300. And all sorts of things in between.

R - N + I = 31,000 where
R = how much I had when I Retired
N = how much I have Now (actually a few days ago when I did the math
I = Income over those six hundred days

Half the world is living on two US dollars a day, and we (Americans)
moan that "no one can survive on less than fifteen dollars an hour."

--
Wes Groleau

On 6/7/2016 4:52 PM, W. Wesley Groleau wrote:
On 06-07-2016 14:54, AMuzi wrote:
?? you don't pay the property tax??

I have no property except what I can carry. When I retired,
I sold the house to my son. My cost-of-living estimates are
based on one-bedroom apartment (rented) outside of city
center, 80% of meals in restaurants but not expensive ones.
Geneva: US$ 3300/month. New York City: 2200. Mumbai: 300.
And all sorts of things in between.

R - N + I = 31,000 where
R = how much I had when I Retired
N = how much I have Now (actually a few days ago when I did
the math
I = Income over those six hundred days

Half the world is living on two US dollars a day, and we
(Americans) moan that "no one can survive on less than
fifteen dollars an hour."


My hat's off to you.

I'm relatively frugal myself; selling my house because the
property tax is untenable.

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

On 6/7/2016 5:52 PM, W. Wesley Groleau wrote:


Half the world is living on two US dollars a day, and we (Americans)
moan that "no one can survive on less than fifteen dollars an hour."

As I understand it, most of those "two US dollars a day" places are
simply much less cash-based. Their food isn't shipped in from 2000
miles away, their clothing isn't made in China and shipped halfway
around the world, they don't need to own a car to get around, they don't
bother with TV, they don't pay high prices to attend sports events, they
make most of their own music, they tell their own stories instead of
going to the movies, etc.

Really, most of those are choices, as you seem to have learned. I have
a dear friend who was proud to live in one of America's biggest cities
on $4000 per year for quite a few years. She ate vegetarian (still
does), almost never drove her old car, shopped thrift shops for
clothing, used her library very extensively, and cultivated friends with
similar ethics. She even had money left over to take vacations. I'll
also note that if you'd met her, you'd never have guessed how low her
income was.

Once, long long ago, I read a book titled _Living Poor With Style_. She
lived that way.

--
- Frank Krygowski

On Tue, 7 Jun 2016 22:50:08 -0400, Frank Krygowski
wrote:

On 6/7/2016 5:52 PM, W. Wesley Groleau wrote:


Half the world is living on two US dollars a day, and we (Americans)
moan that "no one can survive on less than fifteen dollars an hour."

As I understand it, most of those "two US dollars a day" places are
simply much less cash-based. Their food isn't shipped in from 2000
miles away, their clothing isn't made in China and shipped halfway
around the world, they don't need to own a car to get around, they don't
bother with TV, they don't pay high prices to attend sports events, they
make most of their own music, they tell their own stories instead of
going to the movies, etc.

Really, most of those are choices, as you seem to have learned. I have
a dear friend who was proud to live in one of America's biggest cities
on $4000 per year for quite a few years. She ate vegetarian (still
does), almost never drove her old car, shopped thrift shops for
clothing, used her library very extensively, and cultivated friends with
similar ethics. She even had money left over to take vacations. I'll
also note that if you'd met her, you'd never have guessed how low her
income was.

Once, long long ago, I read a book titled _Living Poor With Style_. She
lived that way.

Goodness you are describing the small New England I grew up in.Well
except for the vegetarian bit. But I worked in a small town in Georgia
and there the (Caucasian) country people didn't eat meat from the time
they ran out of ham and bacon along in the early summer until
slaughtering time in the fall.

Can you imagine it? Nothing but the big Philco radio to listen to.
Down to the library twice a week for something to read and "if you are
a good boy you can go to the matinee on Saturday".

Unbelievably primitive, why some people walked to work... a whole
mile. And back home in the evening, too. And the poor kids? School
rules forbid driving to school. Walk! You little scoundrels!

Young kids, some of them only 12 or 13 years old forced to push
mechanical lawn mowers back and forth for what seemed like hours, and
young girls hand washing the dishes after supper?

Must have been some third world country. Couldn't be America!
--
cheers,

John B.

On 06-08-2016 00:26, AMuzi wrote:
On 6/7/2016 4:52 PM, W. Wesley Groleau wrote:
On 06-07-2016 14:54, AMuzi wrote:
?? you don't pay the property tax??

I have no property except what I can carry. When I retired,
I sold the house to my son. [snip]

My hat's off to you.

I'm relatively frugal myself; selling my house because the property tax
is untenable.

I actually have paid the property tax twice for him and added it to the
mortgage. If I recall, it's seven or eight hundred US each year.

I know of a place for sale in Kansas, six lots, one with a house.
Property tax thirteen dollars a year! Because there, the tax is based
on usage and it is not being used.

--
Wes Groleau

On 06-08-2016 04:50, Frank Krygowski wrote:
As I understand it, most of those "two US dollars a day" places are
simply much less cash-based. Their food isn't shipped in from 2000
miles away, their clothing isn't made in China and shipped halfway
around the world, they don't need to own a car to get around, they don't
bother with TV, they don't pay high prices to attend sports events, they
make most of their own music, they tell their own stories instead of
going to the movies, etc.

Their food isn't shipped in because they can't always even afford to buy
what's grown next door. No one needs a car to get around, but few
people besides those who can't afford a car seem to understand that.

Really, most of those are choices, as you seem to have learned. I have

For most of the poor I mentioned, they are not choices. They are not
living comfortably, but they are living.

Once, long long ago, I read a book titled _Living Poor With Style_. She
lived that way.

I will have to hunt for that. Thanks.

--
Wes Groleau

On 06-08-2016 10:32, John B. wrote:
Unbelievably primitive, why some people walked to work... a whole
mile. And back home in the evening, too. And the poor kids? School
rules forbid driving to school. Walk! You little scoundrels!

If God intended for us to walk, we wouldn't have been born with cars.

--
Wes Groleau

On 6/8/2016 4:48 PM, W. Wesley Groleau wrote:
On 06-08-2016 00:26, AMuzi wrote:
On 6/7/2016 4:52 PM, W. Wesley Groleau wrote:
On 06-07-2016 14:54, AMuzi wrote:
?? you don't pay the property tax??

I have no property except what I can carry. When I retired,
I sold the house to my son. [snip]

My hat's off to you.

I'm relatively frugal myself; selling my house because the
property tax
is untenable.

I actually have paid the property tax twice for him and
added it to the mortgage. If I recall, it's seven or eight
hundred US each year.

I know of a place for sale in Kansas, six lots, one with a
house.
Property tax thirteen dollars a year! Because there, the
tax is based on usage and it is not being used.


$780 was my rate 38 years ago.
It went up. A lot.

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

On Wed, 08 Jun 2016 17:33:44 -0500, AMuzi wrote:

On 6/8/2016 4:48 PM, W. Wesley Groleau wrote:
On 06-08-2016 00:26, AMuzi wrote:
On 6/7/2016 4:52 PM, W. Wesley Groleau wrote:
On 06-07-2016 14:54, AMuzi wrote:
?? you don't pay the property tax??

I have no property except what I can carry. When I retired,
I sold the house to my son. [snip]

My hat's off to you.

I'm relatively frugal myself; selling my house because the
property tax
is untenable.

I actually have paid the property tax twice for him and
added it to the mortgage. If I recall, it's seven or eight
hundred US each year.

I know of a place for sale in Kansas, six lots, one with a
house.
Property tax thirteen dollars a year! Because there, the
tax is based on usage and it is not being used.


$780 was my rate 38 years ago.
It went up. A lot.

The tax on our house and the lot on which it sits used to be 200 baht
a year (about US$5.00). But now there is no tax at all :-)
--
cheers,

John B.