Daytime running lights seem more common.....

On Monday, October 5, 2020 at 8:54:47 PM UTC-5, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 10/5/2020 6:37 PM, sms wrote:
On 10/5/2020 3:28 AM, Rolf Mantel wrote:

snip

Exactly. Before mandating, Germany required a verification test.
After the failed varification test, Germany chose not to have a legal
requirement for DLR (but was forced to allow the usage of DLR; prior
to that, Germany required DLR or permanten lights-on on motorbikes and
disallowed use of lights when not necessary for cars, such as to
maximize the potential contrast between cars and motor bikes).

Yeah, I always wondered about that. When every car has DRLs then
motorbikes don't really stand out. In the U.S., one carmaker (GM) tried
to get the NHTSA (National Highway Traffic Safety Administration) to
mandate DRLs for motor vehicles, without success. The data for the
effectiveness of DRLs for cars is not compelling, unlike the data on the
effectiveness of DRLs for motorcycles and bicycles which is pretty
compelling.
And what is that "compelling" evidence for reduced car-bike crashes with
bicycle DRLs, please?

I don't doubt there is benefit for motorcycles. By far the dominant
danger for motorcyclists is the left cross crash. And it's such a danger
because a motorcycle is a small visual image, often coming at high
speed. A bad driver can left-cross and kill a motorcyclist who is 500
feet away when the motorist's turn commences, because of the higher
speeds and the motorcyclist's longer stopping distance and lesser
lateral agility.

Not so for a cyclist - he's have to be within maybe 50 feet, probably
less. In daylight a cyclist is very visible at that distance unless he's
hiding in a "protected bike lane" (a serious misnomer) or otherwise
riding gutter-bunny style.
I know some people demand multiple double-blind studies before they'll
believe anything..

I know some people who will purport to believe anything if it gets them
a little commission through "guerilla marketing" on Usenet groups.

--
- Frank Krygowski

10 years ago I was hit by a left cross motorist while riding my bicycle. I was stopped at the traffic light. Car too. Light changed, I went straight across the road. It was at least 50 feet wide. Car turned left in front of me and hit me. I did not have daytime headlights on. Not saying the headlights would have made the driver see me. But the driver did not see me with no headlights. No bike lanes on the road. I'm guessing I was near the middle of the right lane. It was daylight, not night.

On 10/5/2020 11:30 PM, John B. wrote:
On Mon, 5 Oct 2020 21:34:03 -0400, Frank Krygowski
wrote:

On 10/5/2020 4:18 PM, Ted Heise wrote:
On Mon, 5 Oct 2020 13:37:19 -0400,
Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 10/4/2020 10:37 PM, John B. wrote:
On Sun, 4 Oct 2020 21:45:07 -0400, Frank Krygowski
wrote:
On 10/4/2020 8:49 PM, John B. wrote:
On Sun, 4 Oct 2020 23:56:08 -0000 (UTC), bob prohaska
wrote:

In the past year or so it seems to me that riders using
daytime running lights are considerably more numerous. Has
anybody else noticed the same thing? Last year at this time
I think maybe one bike in ten had them, now it seems close
to one in three or four, at least on some days.

Over here I don't think I've ever seeing anyone with a white
front light but red "tail lights" seem to have become the
norm.

But I do believe that anything that makes the bicyclist more
noticeable would be a good thing.

Yes, I've noticed more DRLs. For one thing, every e-bike I
encounter seems to be running with its headlight on. But I
see a few roadies running daytime headlights, and more of
them running taillights.

But I disagree with John's final sentence. A guy running a
headlight when out on a lonely country road in bright
daylight? That's a "good thing" only for the companies
involved in the light sale. It does no real good for the
cyclist.

You missed the part about "makes the bicyclist more noticeable
would be a good thing"? Obviously if the cyclist is "more
noticeable" there must be those who would notice him/her/it.

Noticing a cyclist who is two blocks away confers no benefit.

Well, "two blocks" is covered pretty darn quickly at highway
speeds, so perhaps there is some benefit in being seen at greater
distance.

If the cyclist is two blocks (say, 1000 ft) away and moving just 12 mph
in the same direction as a 55 mph car, it takes over 15 seconds for the
car to reach the cyclist. 15 seconds is quite a long time in driving.
Count it out to visualize it.

But, but...The discussion was about a white light on the front of a
bicycle so your figures are not correct, it is actually closer to 10
seconds and for someone talking, reading a message or texting, on a
phone that isn't a very long time. And... some 26% of traffic
accidents are a result of hand phone use while driving.

Better double check your math, John. 1000 ft divided by 43 miles per
hour (= closing speed) times 3600 seconds per hour divided by 5280 feet
per mile.


--
- Frank Krygowski

On 10/6/2020 2:53 AM, wrote:
On Monday, October 5, 2020 at 8:54:47 PM UTC-5, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 10/5/2020 6:37 PM, sms wrote:
On 10/5/2020 3:28 AM, Rolf Mantel wrote:

snip

Exactly. Before mandating, Germany required a verification test.
After the failed varification test, Germany chose not to have a legal
requirement for DLR (but was forced to allow the usage of DLR; prior
to that, Germany required DLR or permanten lights-on on motorbikes and
disallowed use of lights when not necessary for cars, such as to
maximize the potential contrast between cars and motor bikes).

Yeah, I always wondered about that. When every car has DRLs then
motorbikes don't really stand out. In the U.S., one carmaker (GM) tried
to get the NHTSA (National Highway Traffic Safety Administration) to
mandate DRLs for motor vehicles, without success. The data for the
effectiveness of DRLs for cars is not compelling, unlike the data on the
effectiveness of DRLs for motorcycles and bicycles which is pretty
compelling.
And what is that "compelling" evidence for reduced car-bike crashes with
bicycle DRLs, please?

I don't doubt there is benefit for motorcycles. By far the dominant
danger for motorcyclists is the left cross crash. And it's such a danger
because a motorcycle is a small visual image, often coming at high
speed. A bad driver can left-cross and kill a motorcyclist who is 500
feet away when the motorist's turn commences, because of the higher
speeds and the motorcyclist's longer stopping distance and lesser
lateral agility.

Not so for a cyclist - he's have to be within maybe 50 feet, probably
less. In daylight a cyclist is very visible at that distance unless he's
hiding in a "protected bike lane" (a serious misnomer) or otherwise
riding gutter-bunny style.
I know some people demand multiple double-blind studies before they'll
believe anything..

I know some people who will purport to believe anything if it gets them
a little commission through "guerilla marketing" on Usenet groups.

--
- Frank Krygowski

10 years ago I was hit by a left cross motorist while riding my bicycle. I was stopped at the traffic light. Car too. Light changed, I went straight across the road. It was at least 50 feet wide. Car turned left in front of me and hit me. I did not have daytime headlights on. Not saying the headlights would have made the driver see me. But the driver did not see me with no headlights. No bike lanes on the road. I'm guessing I was near the middle of the right lane. It was daylight, not night.

I think it's likely that all these events and most other things we
discuss follow normal distributions. That is, unlikely things
occasionally happen at both the good and bad end of the normal curve.
I'm aware of a multiple bike fatality where a pickup left crossed a
small pack of roadies despite a couple DRLs among the cyclists.

My own left cross anecdote was from about 1977. I missed the crash by
doing a really radical emergency right turn. But that got me thinking
about my gutter riding. In the 40+ years since I've not (yet?)
experienced another. I credit my central lane position - although I
understand you were at lane center and stopped.

I'm sorry about your crash. Sadly, nothing is perfect. But I don't think
that means we have to load up on every marketable "safety" feature.


--
- Frank Krygowski

Op dinsdag 6 oktober 2020 om 17:26:27 UTC+2 schreef Frank Krygowski:
On 10/5/2020 11:30 PM, John B. wrote:
On Mon, 5 Oct 2020 21:34:03 -0400, Frank Krygowski
wrote:

On 10/5/2020 4:18 PM, Ted Heise wrote:
On Mon, 5 Oct 2020 13:37:19 -0400,
Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 10/4/2020 10:37 PM, John B. wrote:
On Sun, 4 Oct 2020 21:45:07 -0400, Frank Krygowski
wrote:
On 10/4/2020 8:49 PM, John B. wrote:
On Sun, 4 Oct 2020 23:56:08 -0000 (UTC), bob prohaska
wrote:

In the past year or so it seems to me that riders using
daytime running lights are considerably more numerous. Has
anybody else noticed the same thing? Last year at this time
I think maybe one bike in ten had them, now it seems close
to one in three or four, at least on some days.

Over here I don't think I've ever seeing anyone with a white
front light but red "tail lights" seem to have become the
norm.

But I do believe that anything that makes the bicyclist more
noticeable would be a good thing.

Yes, I've noticed more DRLs. For one thing, every e-bike I
encounter seems to be running with its headlight on. But I
see a few roadies running daytime headlights, and more of
them running taillights.

But I disagree with John's final sentence. A guy running a
headlight when out on a lonely country road in bright
daylight? That's a "good thing" only for the companies
involved in the light sale. It does no real good for the
cyclist.

You missed the part about "makes the bicyclist more noticeable
would be a good thing"? Obviously if the cyclist is "more
noticeable" there must be those who would notice him/her/it.

Noticing a cyclist who is two blocks away confers no benefit.

Well, "two blocks" is covered pretty darn quickly at highway
speeds, so perhaps there is some benefit in being seen at greater
distance.

If the cyclist is two blocks (say, 1000 ft) away and moving just 12 mph
in the same direction as a 55 mph car, it takes over 15 seconds for the
car to reach the cyclist. 15 seconds is quite a long time in driving.
Count it out to visualize it.

But, but...The discussion was about a white light on the front of a
bicycle so your figures are not correct, it is actually closer to 10
seconds and for someone talking, reading a message or texting, on a
phone that isn't a very long time. And... some 26% of traffic
accidents are a result of hand phone use while driving.
Better double check your math, John. 1000 ft divided by 43 miles per
hour (= closing speed) times 3600 seconds per hour divided by 5280 feet
per mile.


--
- Frank Krygowski

Ah, I love those units...

Lou

On 10/6/2020 11:37 AM, Lou Holtman wrote:
Op dinsdag 6 oktober 2020 om 17:26:27 UTC+2 schreef Frank Krygowski:
On 10/5/2020 11:30 PM, John B. wrote:
On Mon, 5 Oct 2020 21:34:03 -0400, Frank Krygowski
wrote:

On 10/5/2020 4:18 PM, Ted Heise wrote:
On Mon, 5 Oct 2020 13:37:19 -0400,
Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 10/4/2020 10:37 PM, John B. wrote:
On Sun, 4 Oct 2020 21:45:07 -0400, Frank Krygowski
wrote:
On 10/4/2020 8:49 PM, John B. wrote:
On Sun, 4 Oct 2020 23:56:08 -0000 (UTC), bob prohaska
wrote:

In the past year or so it seems to me that riders using
daytime running lights are considerably more numerous. Has
anybody else noticed the same thing? Last year at this time
I think maybe one bike in ten had them, now it seems close
to one in three or four, at least on some days.

Over here I don't think I've ever seeing anyone with a white
front light but red "tail lights" seem to have become the
norm.

But I do believe that anything that makes the bicyclist more
noticeable would be a good thing.

Yes, I've noticed more DRLs. For one thing, every e-bike I
encounter seems to be running with its headlight on. But I
see a few roadies running daytime headlights, and more of
them running taillights.

But I disagree with John's final sentence. A guy running a
headlight when out on a lonely country road in bright
daylight? That's a "good thing" only for the companies
involved in the light sale. It does no real good for the
cyclist.

You missed the part about "makes the bicyclist more noticeable
would be a good thing"? Obviously if the cyclist is "more
noticeable" there must be those who would notice him/her/it.

Noticing a cyclist who is two blocks away confers no benefit.

Well, "two blocks" is covered pretty darn quickly at highway
speeds, so perhaps there is some benefit in being seen at greater
distance.

If the cyclist is two blocks (say, 1000 ft) away and moving just 12 mph
in the same direction as a 55 mph car, it takes over 15 seconds for the
car to reach the cyclist. 15 seconds is quite a long time in driving.
Count it out to visualize it.

But, but...The discussion was about a white light on the front of a
bicycle so your figures are not correct, it is actually closer to 10
seconds and for someone talking, reading a message or texting, on a
phone that isn't a very long time. And... some 26% of traffic
accidents are a result of hand phone use while driving.
Better double check your math, John. 1000 ft divided by 43 miles per
hour (= closing speed) times 3600 seconds per hour divided by 5280 feet
per mile.


--
- Frank Krygowski

Ah, I love those units...

Yes, we have barnyards full of them. Hogsheads and barrels and chains
and furlongs and candles...

I was noted for spending quite a bit of time teaching about unit
conversions within calculations. I imagine that's a much shorter topic
in your schools.

BTW, I was talking about a taillight in my calculation. I somehow missed
that John was talking about a headlight. But I did discuss the headlight
situation in a different response.

--
- Frank Krygowski

Op dinsdag 6 oktober 2020 om 17:55:14 UTC+2 schreef Frank Krygowski:
On 10/6/2020 11:37 AM, Lou Holtman wrote:
Op dinsdag 6 oktober 2020 om 17:26:27 UTC+2 schreef Frank Krygowski:
On 10/5/2020 11:30 PM, John B. wrote:
On Mon, 5 Oct 2020 21:34:03 -0400, Frank Krygowski
wrote:

On 10/5/2020 4:18 PM, Ted Heise wrote:
On Mon, 5 Oct 2020 13:37:19 -0400,
Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 10/4/2020 10:37 PM, John B. wrote:
On Sun, 4 Oct 2020 21:45:07 -0400, Frank Krygowski
wrote:
On 10/4/2020 8:49 PM, John B. wrote:
On Sun, 4 Oct 2020 23:56:08 -0000 (UTC), bob prohaska
wrote:

In the past year or so it seems to me that riders using
daytime running lights are considerably more numerous. Has
anybody else noticed the same thing? Last year at this time
I think maybe one bike in ten had them, now it seems close
to one in three or four, at least on some days.

Over here I don't think I've ever seeing anyone with a white
front light but red "tail lights" seem to have become the
norm.

But I do believe that anything that makes the bicyclist more
noticeable would be a good thing.

Yes, I've noticed more DRLs. For one thing, every e-bike I
encounter seems to be running with its headlight on. But I
see a few roadies running daytime headlights, and more of
them running taillights.

But I disagree with John's final sentence. A guy running a
headlight when out on a lonely country road in bright
daylight? That's a "good thing" only for the companies
involved in the light sale. It does no real good for the
cyclist.

You missed the part about "makes the bicyclist more noticeable
would be a good thing"? Obviously if the cyclist is "more
noticeable" there must be those who would notice him/her/it.

Noticing a cyclist who is two blocks away confers no benefit.

Well, "two blocks" is covered pretty darn quickly at highway
speeds, so perhaps there is some benefit in being seen at greater
distance.

If the cyclist is two blocks (say, 1000 ft) away and moving just 12 mph
in the same direction as a 55 mph car, it takes over 15 seconds for the
car to reach the cyclist. 15 seconds is quite a long time in driving.
Count it out to visualize it.

But, but...The discussion was about a white light on the front of a
bicycle so your figures are not correct, it is actually closer to 10
seconds and for someone talking, reading a message or texting, on a
phone that isn't a very long time. And... some 26% of traffic
accidents are a result of hand phone use while driving.
Better double check your math, John. 1000 ft divided by 43 miles per
hour (= closing speed) times 3600 seconds per hour divided by 5280 feet
per mile.


--
- Frank Krygowski

Ah, I love those units...
Yes, we have barnyards full of them. Hogsheads and barrels and chains
and furlongs and candles...

I was noted for spending quite a bit of time teaching about unit
conversions within calculations. I imagine that's a much shorter topic
in your schools.

Well we had to learn what kilo, milli, micro, deci, hecto, pico, nano etc means.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metric_prefix

Don't underestimate that ;-)

Lou

On 10/6/2020 12:06 PM, Lou Holtman wrote:
Op dinsdag 6 oktober 2020 om 17:55:14 UTC+2 schreef Frank Krygowski:
On 10/6/2020 11:37 AM, Lou Holtman wrote:
Op dinsdag 6 oktober 2020 om 17:26:27 UTC+2 schreef Frank Krygowski:
On 10/5/2020 11:30 PM, John B. wrote:
On Mon, 5 Oct 2020 21:34:03 -0400, Frank Krygowski
wrote:

On 10/5/2020 4:18 PM, Ted Heise wrote:
On Mon, 5 Oct 2020 13:37:19 -0400,
Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 10/4/2020 10:37 PM, John B. wrote:
On Sun, 4 Oct 2020 21:45:07 -0400, Frank Krygowski
wrote:
On 10/4/2020 8:49 PM, John B. wrote:
On Sun, 4 Oct 2020 23:56:08 -0000 (UTC), bob prohaska
wrote:

In the past year or so it seems to me that riders using
daytime running lights are considerably more numerous. Has
anybody else noticed the same thing? Last year at this time
I think maybe one bike in ten had them, now it seems close
to one in three or four, at least on some days.

Over here I don't think I've ever seeing anyone with a white
front light but red "tail lights" seem to have become the
norm.

But I do believe that anything that makes the bicyclist more
noticeable would be a good thing.

Yes, I've noticed more DRLs. For one thing, every e-bike I
encounter seems to be running with its headlight on. But I
see a few roadies running daytime headlights, and more of
them running taillights.

But I disagree with John's final sentence. A guy running a
headlight when out on a lonely country road in bright
daylight? That's a "good thing" only for the companies
involved in the light sale. It does no real good for the
cyclist.

You missed the part about "makes the bicyclist more noticeable
would be a good thing"? Obviously if the cyclist is "more
noticeable" there must be those who would notice him/her/it.

Noticing a cyclist who is two blocks away confers no benefit.

Well, "two blocks" is covered pretty darn quickly at highway
speeds, so perhaps there is some benefit in being seen at greater
distance.

If the cyclist is two blocks (say, 1000 ft) away and moving just 12 mph
in the same direction as a 55 mph car, it takes over 15 seconds for the
car to reach the cyclist. 15 seconds is quite a long time in driving.
Count it out to visualize it.

But, but...The discussion was about a white light on the front of a
bicycle so your figures are not correct, it is actually closer to 10
seconds and for someone talking, reading a message or texting, on a
phone that isn't a very long time. And... some 26% of traffic
accidents are a result of hand phone use while driving.
Better double check your math, John. 1000 ft divided by 43 miles per
hour (= closing speed) times 3600 seconds per hour divided by 5280 feet
per mile.


--
- Frank Krygowski

Ah, I love those units...
Yes, we have barnyards full of them. Hogsheads and barrels and chains
and furlongs and candles...

I was noted for spending quite a bit of time teaching about unit
conversions within calculations. I imagine that's a much shorter topic
in your schools.

Well we had to learn what kilo, milli, micro, deci, hecto, pico, nano etc means.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metric_prefix

Don't underestimate that ;-)

Lou



Sometimes a few magnitudes make no difference at all:

https://nypost.com/2020/10/05/biden-...m-coronavirus/

But when The President says, 'Nice day', there's a crowd
lined up to call him a liar because it rained somewhere.

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

Op dinsdag 6 oktober 2020 om 19:34:23 UTC+2 schreef AMuzi:
On 10/6/2020 12:06 PM, Lou Holtman wrote:
Op dinsdag 6 oktober 2020 om 17:55:14 UTC+2 schreef Frank Krygowski:
On 10/6/2020 11:37 AM, Lou Holtman wrote:
Op dinsdag 6 oktober 2020 om 17:26:27 UTC+2 schreef Frank Krygowski:
On 10/5/2020 11:30 PM, John B. wrote:
On Mon, 5 Oct 2020 21:34:03 -0400, Frank Krygowski
wrote:

On 10/5/2020 4:18 PM, Ted Heise wrote:
On Mon, 5 Oct 2020 13:37:19 -0400,
Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 10/4/2020 10:37 PM, John B. wrote:
On Sun, 4 Oct 2020 21:45:07 -0400, Frank Krygowski
wrote:
On 10/4/2020 8:49 PM, John B. wrote:
On Sun, 4 Oct 2020 23:56:08 -0000 (UTC), bob prohaska
wrote:

In the past year or so it seems to me that riders using
daytime running lights are considerably more numerous. Has
anybody else noticed the same thing? Last year at this time
I think maybe one bike in ten had them, now it seems close
to one in three or four, at least on some days.

Over here I don't think I've ever seeing anyone with a white
front light but red "tail lights" seem to have become the
norm.

But I do believe that anything that makes the bicyclist more
noticeable would be a good thing.

Yes, I've noticed more DRLs. For one thing, every e-bike I
encounter seems to be running with its headlight on. But I
see a few roadies running daytime headlights, and more of
them running taillights.

But I disagree with John's final sentence. A guy running a
headlight when out on a lonely country road in bright
daylight? That's a "good thing" only for the companies
involved in the light sale. It does no real good for the
cyclist.

You missed the part about "makes the bicyclist more noticeable
would be a good thing"? Obviously if the cyclist is "more
noticeable" there must be those who would notice him/her/it.

Noticing a cyclist who is two blocks away confers no benefit.

Well, "two blocks" is covered pretty darn quickly at highway
speeds, so perhaps there is some benefit in being seen at greater
distance.

If the cyclist is two blocks (say, 1000 ft) away and moving just 12 mph
in the same direction as a 55 mph car, it takes over 15 seconds for the
car to reach the cyclist. 15 seconds is quite a long time in driving.
Count it out to visualize it.

But, but...The discussion was about a white light on the front of a
bicycle so your figures are not correct, it is actually closer to 10
seconds and for someone talking, reading a message or texting, on a
phone that isn't a very long time. And... some 26% of traffic
accidents are a result of hand phone use while driving.
Better double check your math, John. 1000 ft divided by 43 miles per
hour (= closing speed) times 3600 seconds per hour divided by 5280 feet
per mile.


--
- Frank Krygowski

Ah, I love those units...
Yes, we have barnyards full of them. Hogsheads and barrels and chains
and furlongs and candles...

I was noted for spending quite a bit of time teaching about unit
conversions within calculations. I imagine that's a much shorter topic
in your schools.

Well we had to learn what kilo, milli, micro, deci, hecto, pico, nano etc means.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metric_prefix

Don't underestimate that ;-)

Lou

Sometimes a few magnitudes make no difference at all:

https://nypost.com/2020/10/05/biden-...m-coronavirus/

But when The President says, 'Nice day', there's a crowd
lined up to call him a liar because it rained somewhere.

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

Even this is made political. Nice.... Man you have a ****ed up political system/election. It is disgusting.

Lou

On Tuesday, October 6, 2020 at 10:34:23 AM UTC-7, AMuzi wrote:
On 10/6/2020 12:06 PM, Lou Holtman wrote:
Op dinsdag 6 oktober 2020 om 17:55:14 UTC+2 schreef Frank Krygowski:
On 10/6/2020 11:37 AM, Lou Holtman wrote:
Op dinsdag 6 oktober 2020 om 17:26:27 UTC+2 schreef Frank Krygowski:
On 10/5/2020 11:30 PM, John B. wrote:
On Mon, 5 Oct 2020 21:34:03 -0400, Frank Krygowski
wrote:

On 10/5/2020 4:18 PM, Ted Heise wrote:
On Mon, 5 Oct 2020 13:37:19 -0400,
Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 10/4/2020 10:37 PM, John B. wrote:
On Sun, 4 Oct 2020 21:45:07 -0400, Frank Krygowski
wrote:
On 10/4/2020 8:49 PM, John B. wrote:
On Sun, 4 Oct 2020 23:56:08 -0000 (UTC), bob prohaska
wrote:

In the past year or so it seems to me that riders using
daytime running lights are considerably more numerous. Has
anybody else noticed the same thing? Last year at this time
I think maybe one bike in ten had them, now it seems close
to one in three or four, at least on some days.

Over here I don't think I've ever seeing anyone with a white
front light but red "tail lights" seem to have become the
norm.

But I do believe that anything that makes the bicyclist more
noticeable would be a good thing.

Yes, I've noticed more DRLs. For one thing, every e-bike I
encounter seems to be running with its headlight on. But I
see a few roadies running daytime headlights, and more of
them running taillights.

But I disagree with John's final sentence. A guy running a
headlight when out on a lonely country road in bright
daylight? That's a "good thing" only for the companies
involved in the light sale. It does no real good for the
cyclist.

You missed the part about "makes the bicyclist more noticeable
would be a good thing"? Obviously if the cyclist is "more
noticeable" there must be those who would notice him/her/it.

Noticing a cyclist who is two blocks away confers no benefit.

Well, "two blocks" is covered pretty darn quickly at highway
speeds, so perhaps there is some benefit in being seen at greater
distance.

If the cyclist is two blocks (say, 1000 ft) away and moving just 12 mph
in the same direction as a 55 mph car, it takes over 15 seconds for the
car to reach the cyclist. 15 seconds is quite a long time in driving.
Count it out to visualize it.

But, but...The discussion was about a white light on the front of a
bicycle so your figures are not correct, it is actually closer to 10
seconds and for someone talking, reading a message or texting, on a
phone that isn't a very long time. And... some 26% of traffic
accidents are a result of hand phone use while driving.
Better double check your math, John. 1000 ft divided by 43 miles per
hour (= closing speed) times 3600 seconds per hour divided by 5280 feet
per mile.


--
- Frank Krygowski

Ah, I love those units...
Yes, we have barnyards full of them. Hogsheads and barrels and chains
and furlongs and candles...

I was noted for spending quite a bit of time teaching about unit
conversions within calculations. I imagine that's a much shorter topic
in your schools.

Well we had to learn what kilo, milli, micro, deci, hecto, pico, nano etc means.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metric_prefix

Don't underestimate that ;-)

Lou



Sometimes a few magnitudes make no difference at all:

https://nypost.com/2020/10/05/biden-...m-coronavirus/

But when The President says, 'Nice day', there's a crowd
lined up to call him a liar because it rained somewhere.

Or they're lined up because Trump lies a lot. I mean really, putting aside partisanship -- which I CAN do when it comes to taking Trump out of context or giving weight to his ill-advised riffing or just being wrong -- Trump just lies a lot. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Veraci...y_Donald_Trump Demonstrable, provable lies. The guy is pathological, which I totally expect from a NY real estate developer. Lying is the first language of these guys. Biden may lie, but the alt-right media goes after him for just bumbling or being wrong. If he actually lies, go get him. Liars should be called out.

Even if you like Trump's policies (who doesn't like a tax break and hate immigrants), at some point, you just have to say enough is enough. I've dumped high paying clients because I couldn't take the lying and drama. I'll take a revenue hit to get some peace and quiet. I'd vote for a normal Republican if there were one left, say Eisenhower. I'd even vote for Hoover, who was actually a great humanitarian, although a little late with stimulus when it came to the great depression.

-- Jay Beattie.

On 10/6/2020 2:03 PM, jbeattie wrote:
On Tuesday, October 6, 2020 at 10:34:23 AM UTC-7, AMuzi wrote:
On 10/6/2020 12:06 PM, Lou Holtman wrote:
Op dinsdag 6 oktober 2020 om 17:55:14 UTC+2 schreef Frank Krygowski:
On 10/6/2020 11:37 AM, Lou Holtman wrote:
Op dinsdag 6 oktober 2020 om 17:26:27 UTC+2 schreef Frank Krygowski:
On 10/5/2020 11:30 PM, John B. wrote:
On Mon, 5 Oct 2020 21:34:03 -0400, Frank Krygowski
wrote:

On 10/5/2020 4:18 PM, Ted Heise wrote:
On Mon, 5 Oct 2020 13:37:19 -0400,
Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 10/4/2020 10:37 PM, John B. wrote:
On Sun, 4 Oct 2020 21:45:07 -0400, Frank Krygowski
wrote:
On 10/4/2020 8:49 PM, John B. wrote:
On Sun, 4 Oct 2020 23:56:08 -0000 (UTC), bob prohaska
wrote:

In the past year or so it seems to me that riders using
daytime running lights are considerably more numerous. Has
anybody else noticed the same thing? Last year at this time
I think maybe one bike in ten had them, now it seems close
to one in three or four, at least on some days.

Over here I don't think I've ever seeing anyone with a white
front light but red "tail lights" seem to have become the
norm.

But I do believe that anything that makes the bicyclist more
noticeable would be a good thing.

Yes, I've noticed more DRLs. For one thing, every e-bike I
encounter seems to be running with its headlight on. But I
see a few roadies running daytime headlights, and more of
them running taillights.

But I disagree with John's final sentence. A guy running a
headlight when out on a lonely country road in bright
daylight? That's a "good thing" only for the companies
involved in the light sale. It does no real good for the
cyclist.

You missed the part about "makes the bicyclist more noticeable
would be a good thing"? Obviously if the cyclist is "more
noticeable" there must be those who would notice him/her/it.

Noticing a cyclist who is two blocks away confers no benefit.

Well, "two blocks" is covered pretty darn quickly at highway
speeds, so perhaps there is some benefit in being seen at greater
distance.

If the cyclist is two blocks (say, 1000 ft) away and moving just 12 mph
in the same direction as a 55 mph car, it takes over 15 seconds for the
car to reach the cyclist. 15 seconds is quite a long time in driving.
Count it out to visualize it.

But, but...The discussion was about a white light on the front of a
bicycle so your figures are not correct, it is actually closer to 10
seconds and for someone talking, reading a message or texting, on a
phone that isn't a very long time. And... some 26% of traffic
accidents are a result of hand phone use while driving.
Better double check your math, John. 1000 ft divided by 43 miles per
hour (= closing speed) times 3600 seconds per hour divided by 5280 feet
per mile.


--
- Frank Krygowski

Ah, I love those units...
Yes, we have barnyards full of them. Hogsheads and barrels and chains
and furlongs and candles...

I was noted for spending quite a bit of time teaching about unit
conversions within calculations. I imagine that's a much shorter topic
in your schools.

Well we had to learn what kilo, milli, micro, deci, hecto, pico, nano etc means.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metric_prefix

Don't underestimate that ;-)

Lou



Sometimes a few magnitudes make no difference at all:

https://nypost.com/2020/10/05/biden-...m-coronavirus/

But when The President says, 'Nice day', there's a crowd
lined up to call him a liar because it rained somewhere.

Or they're lined up because Trump lies a lot. I mean really, putting aside partisanship -- which I CAN do when it comes to taking Trump out of context or giving weight to his ill-advised riffing or just being wrong -- Trump just lies a lot. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Veraci...y_Donald_Trump Demonstrable, provable lies. The guy is pathological, which I totally expect from a NY real estate developer. Lying is the first language of these guys. Biden may lie, but the alt-right media goes after him for just bumbling or being wrong. If he actually lies, go get him. Liars should be called out.

Even if you like Trump's policies (who doesn't like a tax break and hate immigrants), at some point, you just have to say enough is enough. I've dumped high paying clients because I couldn't take the lying and drama. I'll take a revenue hit to get some peace and quiet. I'd vote for a normal Republican if there were one left, say Eisenhower. I'd even vote for Hoover, who was actually a great humanitarian, although a little late with stimulus when it came to the great depression.

-- Jay Beattie.






Jay, you might be surprised, I don't disagree with any of that.

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971