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#21
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question about climbing
On Fri, 27 Jul 2018 14:22:43 -0700,
Joerg wrote: On 2018-07-27 14:07, jbeattie wrote: On Friday, July 27, 2018 at 12:17:46 PM UTC-7, Joerg wrote: On 2018-07-22 11:33, wrote: [...] ... Any climbing experts in this group. I am certainly not one. To me climbs are just a necessary evil of living in a hilly area. It's always a net 1200ft coming back from the valley with lots of ups and downs in between. Unfortunately it is not always possible to let'er rip on the downhills to gain momentum. You should get a Garmin or ride with someone who has one to see what the real elevation gain is between Sacto and Cameron Park. Saw-tooth climbs count extra, probably 50%. Good idea. This weekend I'll be riding with someone who has one of those fancy GPS-driven "bicycle computers". Maybe it has grade measurement, I'll ask him. I use a Garmin Edge 500, not too pricey (nor big) and includes a barometer. It can display grade on the fly, though it's not always terribly accurate. On sustained climbs, it usually settles in to something that is pretty close to real. I did 1,200 feet of climbing in about three or so miles... That works out to a little under 8% constant grade--very respectable! -- Ted Heise West Lafayette, IN, USA |
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#22
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question about climbing
On 2018-07-27 14:29, Theodore Heise wrote:
On Fri, 27 Jul 2018 14:22:43 -0700, Joerg wrote: On 2018-07-27 14:07, jbeattie wrote: On Friday, July 27, 2018 at 12:17:46 PM UTC-7, Joerg wrote: On 2018-07-22 11:33, wrote: [...] ... Any climbing experts in this group. I am certainly not one. To me climbs are just a necessary evil of living in a hilly area. It's always a net 1200ft coming back from the valley with lots of ups and downs in between. Unfortunately it is not always possible to let'er rip on the downhills to gain momentum. You should get a Garmin or ride with someone who has one to see what the real elevation gain is between Sacto and Cameron Park. Saw-tooth climbs count extra, probably 50%. Good idea. This weekend I'll be riding with someone who has one of those fancy GPS-driven "bicycle computers". Maybe it has grade measurement, I'll ask him. I use a Garmin Edge 500, not too pricey (nor big) and includes a barometer. It can display grade on the fly, though it's not always terribly accurate. On sustained climbs, it usually settles in to something that is pretty close to real. https://www.amazon.com/Garmin-Heart-...dp/B010SDBFIE/ Over 300 bucks! In my book that is pricey. I think I'll continue living not knowing what grade I just cycled up. I did 1,200 feet of climbing in about three or so miles... That works out to a little under 8% constant grade--very respectable! It is. Next week I'll have to go up something that probably does this in less than two miles, on dirt with loose gravel. Not looking forward to that section of trail except on the way back when we can bomb down those switchbacks. Good thing is that my MTB has a granny gear. -- Regards, Joerg http://www.analogconsultants.com/ |
#24
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question about climbing
On Friday, July 27, 2018 at 2:29:51 PM UTC-7, Theodore Heise wrote:
On Fri, 27 Jul 2018 14:22:43 -0700, Joerg wrote: On 2018-07-27 14:07, jbeattie wrote: On Friday, July 27, 2018 at 12:17:46 PM UTC-7, Joerg wrote: On 2018-07-22 11:33, wrote: [...] ... Any climbing experts in this group. I am certainly not one. To me climbs are just a necessary evil of living in a hilly area. It's always a net 1200ft coming back from the valley with lots of ups and downs in between. Unfortunately it is not always possible to let'er rip on the downhills to gain momentum. You should get a Garmin or ride with someone who has one to see what the real elevation gain is between Sacto and Cameron Park. Saw-tooth climbs count extra, probably 50%. Good idea. This weekend I'll be riding with someone who has one of those fancy GPS-driven "bicycle computers". Maybe it has grade measurement, I'll ask him. I use a Garmin Edge 500, not too pricey (nor big) and includes a barometer. It can display grade on the fly, though it's not always terribly accurate. On sustained climbs, it usually settles in to something that is pretty close to real. I did 1,200 feet of climbing in about three or so miles... That works out to a little under 8% constant grade--very respectable! -- Ted Heise West Lafayette, IN, USA The VDO's are pretty much the same thing but instead of a DPS distance which isn't very accurate, it uses the wheel magnets. GPS sort of screws up on distance if you're on a climb. |
#25
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question about climbing
On Friday, July 27, 2018 at 2:39:21 PM UTC-7, Joerg wrote:
On 2018-07-27 14:29, Theodore Heise wrote: On Fri, 27 Jul 2018 14:22:43 -0700, Joerg wrote: On 2018-07-27 14:07, jbeattie wrote: On Friday, July 27, 2018 at 12:17:46 PM UTC-7, Joerg wrote: On 2018-07-22 11:33, wrote: [...] ... Any climbing experts in this group. I am certainly not one. To me climbs are just a necessary evil of living in a hilly area. It's always a net 1200ft coming back from the valley with lots of ups and downs in between. Unfortunately it is not always possible to let'er rip on the downhills to gain momentum. You should get a Garmin or ride with someone who has one to see what the real elevation gain is between Sacto and Cameron Park. Saw-tooth climbs count extra, probably 50%. Good idea. This weekend I'll be riding with someone who has one of those fancy GPS-driven "bicycle computers". Maybe it has grade measurement, I'll ask him. I use a Garmin Edge 500, not too pricey (nor big) and includes a barometer. It can display grade on the fly, though it's not always terribly accurate. On sustained climbs, it usually settles in to something that is pretty close to real. https://www.amazon.com/Garmin-Heart-...dp/B010SDBFIE/ Over 300 bucks! In my book that is pricey. I think I'll continue living not knowing what grade I just cycled up. I did 1,200 feet of climbing in about three or so miles... That works out to a little under 8% constant grade--very respectable! It is. Next week I'll have to go up something that probably does this in less than two miles, on dirt with loose gravel. Not looking forward to that section of trail except on the way back when we can bomb down those switchbacks. Good thing is that my MTB has a granny gear. -- Regards, Joerg http://www.analogconsultants.com/ MTB's allow you to make these wicked climbs because they have long wheelbases and heavy front ends with the suspension forks. But the amount of work of course goes up (square of the grade?) to the inclination. So you CAN give yourself a heart attack on very steep climbs if you don't watch your heart rate. |
#26
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question about climbing
On 2018-07-27 15:15, wrote:
On Friday, July 27, 2018 at 2:39:21 PM UTC-7, Joerg wrote: On 2018-07-27 14:29, Theodore Heise wrote: On Fri, 27 Jul 2018 14:22:43 -0700, Joerg wrote: On 2018-07-27 14:07, jbeattie wrote: On Friday, July 27, 2018 at 12:17:46 PM UTC-7, Joerg wrote: On 2018-07-22 11:33, wrote: [...] ... Any climbing experts in this group. I am certainly not one. To me climbs are just a necessary evil of living in a hilly area. It's always a net 1200ft coming back from the valley with lots of ups and downs in between. Unfortunately it is not always possible to let'er rip on the downhills to gain momentum. You should get a Garmin or ride with someone who has one to see what the real elevation gain is between Sacto and Cameron Park. Saw-tooth climbs count extra, probably 50%. Good idea. This weekend I'll be riding with someone who has one of those fancy GPS-driven "bicycle computers". Maybe it has grade measurement, I'll ask him. I use a Garmin Edge 500, not too pricey (nor big) and includes a barometer. It can display grade on the fly, though it's not always terribly accurate. On sustained climbs, it usually settles in to something that is pretty close to real. https://www.amazon.com/Garmin-Heart-...dp/B010SDBFIE/ Over 300 bucks! In my book that is pricey. I think I'll continue living not knowing what grade I just cycled up. I did 1,200 feet of climbing in about three or so miles... That works out to a little under 8% constant grade--very respectable! It is. Next week I'll have to go up something that probably does this in less than two miles, on dirt with loose gravel. Not looking forward to that section of trail except on the way back when we can bomb down those switchbacks. Good thing is that my MTB has a granny gear. -- Regards, Joerg http://www.analogconsultants.com/ MTB's allow you to make these wicked climbs because they have long wheelbases and heavy front ends with the suspension forks. But the amount of work of course goes up (square of the grade?) to the inclination. So you CAN give yourself a heart attack on very steep climbs if you don't watch your heart rate. I don't have a heart rate monitor but I usually take it easy. Have to, because temps will be well above 100F and the whole trail is in full sun. I also will have to schlepp 1-1/2 gallons of water on the rack because this trail has no safe drinking water. Just the river but you'd have to climb all the way back up from there and its water lately had E coli. -- Regards, Joerg http://www.analogconsultants.com/ |
#27
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question about climbing
On 2018-07-27 15:05, wrote:
[...] OSHA approved stairways are 32 degrees max which is 62.5%. A 45% stairway is about 24 degrees. VERY few people can climb a 23% climb (13 degrees). I can only climb 23% in a 30/28 as long as it isn't more than a block long and I'm fresh. On an MTB you can climb 23% but it's a matter of what surface you find. At some point the rear wheel just spits dust and rocks. We just have been watching the Tour de France where all of the strongest riders in the world are straining in low gears to go over 12% and you're making comments as if you could ride up a stairway. People do but I can't: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o0oGMix5X44 He lives in the next town, El Dorado Hills. -- Regards, Joerg http://www.analogconsultants.com/ |
#28
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question about climbing
On Friday, July 27, 2018 at 3:05:39 PM UTC-7, wrote:
On Friday, July 27, 2018 at 2:07:59 PM UTC-7, jbeattie wrote: On Friday, July 27, 2018 at 12:17:46 PM UTC-7, Joerg wrote: On 2018-07-22 11:33, wrote: I live in the flatlands and not a great climber but pretty solid rider. I have done some climbs according to various categories that are 3 and 4 rated. I got them ok on a 34-28 but not just easy. So I see the Alpe D'Huez and the rating plus going up 8 % for over 8 miles seems a bit much for me to comprehend. Do most mortals who do the Alpe D"Huez go up without stopping during the climb? ... One climb I do is overall about 6% and it goes on for 1.2 miles. The very last section gets to 9% or about maybe 1/4 mile. I tell you I can get up no problem but I just cannot see keep that up for another 7 miles. I am pretty spent the last 200 feet. I hate climbs. The other thing is, I never know how steep something is because there aren't any signs and even topo maps are not very useful for finding out. So I assume those climbing these on tours and such are pretty decent cyclist but what gearing. Would a 34-32 really make it that much easier to manage than say a 34-28 that I use now. Every tooth more in back or less in front helps. Unfortuntely my current road bike is limited to 42-32. When I was young and also weighed less I could scale all hills with 42-21 but that was more than 30 years ago. It is probably the reason why to this day I ride with much lower cadence than others. Which tends to make bottom bracket bearings suffer. The BB in my road bike has maybe 2000-3000 miles on it and already starts to make clicking noises, despite picking an expensive one. ... They say sitting is the best way to climb but I guess I just do not do enough of it to really tell. I do know that when I am around more hilly terrain after a few days I get better at climbing. Same here but you have to keep at it at least once a week. Climbing endurance is quickly lost. Does the average cyclist planning to climb something like the Alpe D Huez factor in a break of a few minutes at some point or points. For me that entirely depends on whether there is a good saloon along the way 8-) ... Any climbing experts in this group. I am certainly not one. To me climbs are just a necessary evil of living in a hilly area. It's always a net 1200ft coming back from the valley with lots of ups and downs in between. Unfortunately it is not always possible to let'er rip on the downhills to gain momentum. You should get a Garmin or ride with someone who has one to see what the real elevation gain is between Sacto and Cameron Park. Saw-tooth climbs count extra, probably 50%. I did 1,200 feet of climbing in about three or so miles to get home after work last night, most of that after stopping at a work shindig in the lower West Hills. 16% climb to get to the gathering, then after leaving, about a 45% climb on stairs to get to a connector street. https://tinyurl.com/yc5pukmy And then various grades for the next few miles and then down to my neighborhood. Climbing advice: don't sit around eating pizza and beer and gin-and-tonics and then go climb. That's why I don't get the whole sitting around at pubs thing. I lose all desire to ride after drinking. -- Jay Beattie. OSHA approved stairways are 32 degrees max which is 62.5%. A 45% stairway is about 24 degrees. VERY few people can climb a 23% climb (13 degrees). I can only climb 23% in a 30/28 as long as it isn't more than a block long and I'm fresh. We just have been watching the Tour de France where all of the strongest riders in the world are straining in low gears to go over 12% and you're making comments as if you could ride up a stairway. No Tom, I got off my bike and walked an actual staircase. Look at the picture. We have those in Portland. Some are slippery wooden structures: https://tinyurl.com/y8wtmfoh And some are nice, tidy cement stairs.http://gentleartofwandering.com/wp-c...2-1024x768.jpg https://tinyurl.com/y7jk86ym Even in my 'hood which is at a lower elevation, my most frequent route home is bisected by a half-mile stair case. Frisky pedestrians can beat me walking because the road zig-zags up a scarp. It's embarrassing. I have to hit the gas to beat them. Here's the start of the stairs: https://tinyurl.com/yb5uul6c I ride up that broken-up goat road. Here's where the stairs hit the top, next to that house. https://tinyurl.com/y9qsv885 I've done the hike-a-bike, and its not really much fun. I prefer the road, although continuing on my ride home, I do have to climb some stairs -- but I ride the dirt path next to the stairs until I stall out or lose traction, which usually happens at about the same point. It's tricky getting off my bike without slipping down the hill. -- Jay Beattie. |
#29
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question about climbing
On Friday, July 27, 2018 at 3:54:33 PM UTC-7, jbeattie wrote:
On Friday, July 27, 2018 at 3:05:39 PM UTC-7, wrote: On Friday, July 27, 2018 at 2:07:59 PM UTC-7, jbeattie wrote: On Friday, July 27, 2018 at 12:17:46 PM UTC-7, Joerg wrote: On 2018-07-22 11:33, wrote: I live in the flatlands and not a great climber but pretty solid rider. I have done some climbs according to various categories that are 3 and 4 rated. I got them ok on a 34-28 but not just easy. So I see the Alpe D'Huez and the rating plus going up 8 % for over 8 miles seems a bit much for me to comprehend. Do most mortals who do the Alpe D"Huez go up without stopping during the climb? ... One climb I do is overall about 6% and it goes on for 1.2 miles. The very last section gets to 9% or about maybe 1/4 mile. I tell you I can get up no problem but I just cannot see keep that up for another 7 miles. I am pretty spent the last 200 feet. I hate climbs. The other thing is, I never know how steep something is because there aren't any signs and even topo maps are not very useful for finding out. So I assume those climbing these on tours and such are pretty decent cyclist but what gearing. Would a 34-32 really make it that much easier to manage than say a 34-28 that I use now. Every tooth more in back or less in front helps. Unfortuntely my current road bike is limited to 42-32. When I was young and also weighed less I could scale all hills with 42-21 but that was more than 30 years ago. It is probably the reason why to this day I ride with much lower cadence than others. Which tends to make bottom bracket bearings suffer. The BB in my road bike has maybe 2000-3000 miles on it and already starts to make clicking noises, despite picking an expensive one. ... They say sitting is the best way to climb but I guess I just do not do enough of it to really tell. I do know that when I am around more hilly terrain after a few days I get better at climbing. Same here but you have to keep at it at least once a week. Climbing endurance is quickly lost. Does the average cyclist planning to climb something like the Alpe D Huez factor in a break of a few minutes at some point or points. For me that entirely depends on whether there is a good saloon along the way 8-) ... Any climbing experts in this group. I am certainly not one. To me climbs are just a necessary evil of living in a hilly area. It's always a net 1200ft coming back from the valley with lots of ups and downs in between. Unfortunately it is not always possible to let'er rip on the downhills to gain momentum. You should get a Garmin or ride with someone who has one to see what the real elevation gain is between Sacto and Cameron Park. Saw-tooth climbs count extra, probably 50%. I did 1,200 feet of climbing in about three or so miles to get home after work last night, most of that after stopping at a work shindig in the lower West Hills. 16% climb to get to the gathering, then after leaving, about a 45% climb on stairs to get to a connector street. https://tinyurl.com/yc5pukmy And then various grades for the next few miles and then down to my neighborhood. Climbing advice: don't sit around eating pizza and beer and gin-and-tonics and then go climb. That's why I don't get the whole sitting around at pubs thing. I lose all desire to ride after drinking. -- Jay Beattie. OSHA approved stairways are 32 degrees max which is 62.5%. A 45% stairway is about 24 degrees. VERY few people can climb a 23% climb (13 degrees). I can only climb 23% in a 30/28 as long as it isn't more than a block long and I'm fresh. We just have been watching the Tour de France where all of the strongest riders in the world are straining in low gears to go over 12% and you're making comments as if you could ride up a stairway. No Tom, I got off my bike and walked an actual staircase. Look at the picture. We have those in Portland. Some are slippery wooden structures: https://tinyurl.com/y8wtmfoh And some are nice, tidy cement stairs.http://gentleartofwandering.com/wp-c...2-1024x768.jpg https://tinyurl.com/y7jk86ym Even in my 'hood which is at a lower elevation, my most frequent route home is bisected by a half-mile stair case. Frisky pedestrians can beat me walking because the road zig-zags up a scarp. It's embarrassing. I have to hit the gas to beat them. Here's the start of the stairs: https://tinyurl.com/yb5uul6c I ride up that broken-up goat road. Here's where the stairs hit the top, next to that house. https://tinyurl.com/y9qsv885 I've done the hike-a-bike, and its not really much fun. I prefer the road, although continuing on my ride home, I do have to climb some stairs -- but I ride the dirt path next to the stairs until I stall out or lose traction, which usually happens at about the same point. It's tricky getting off my bike without slipping down the hill. -- Jay Beattie. I was being sarcastic about how lightly you treat grades. I am now over 80,000 ft for the year where I get in 2200 to 4,000 feet in a ride all over 6%.. I don't find climbing to be easy and it's hardly something to talk about as if it is. When I went down to Phoenix most of the people down there were having problems with overpasses. There was a 5% rise on one route and everyone was down into a 34/32. Sure you can climb but it requires a lot of practice. And you speaking of going up steep climbs half lit doesn't impress me that you're doing much climbing. When Chris Froome is turning purple on a 12% grade people ought to be more respectful rather than talking about a 24% grade as if it's no big deal. |
#30
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question about climbing
On 2018-07-27 16:12, wrote:
On Friday, July 27, 2018 at 3:54:33 PM UTC-7, jbeattie wrote: On Friday, July 27, 2018 at 3:05:39 PM UTC-7, wrote: On Friday, July 27, 2018 at 2:07:59 PM UTC-7, jbeattie wrote: On Friday, July 27, 2018 at 12:17:46 PM UTC-7, Joerg wrote: On 2018-07-22 11:33, wrote: I live in the flatlands and not a great climber but pretty solid rider. I have done some climbs according to various categories that are 3 and 4 rated. I got them ok on a 34-28 but not just easy. So I see the Alpe D'Huez and the rating plus going up 8 % for over 8 miles seems a bit much for me to comprehend. Do most mortals who do the Alpe D"Huez go up without stopping during the climb? ... One climb I do is overall about 6% and it goes on for 1.2 miles. The very last section gets to 9% or about maybe 1/4 mile. I tell you I can get up no problem but I just cannot see keep that up for another 7 miles. I am pretty spent the last 200 feet. I hate climbs. The other thing is, I never know how steep something is because there aren't any signs and even topo maps are not very useful for finding out. So I assume those climbing these on tours and such are pretty decent cyclist but what gearing. Would a 34-32 really make it that much easier to manage than say a 34-28 that I use now. Every tooth more in back or less in front helps. Unfortuntely my current road bike is limited to 42-32. When I was young and also weighed less I could scale all hills with 42-21 but that was more than 30 years ago. It is probably the reason why to this day I ride with much lower cadence than others. Which tends to make bottom bracket bearings suffer. The BB in my road bike has maybe 2000-3000 miles on it and already starts to make clicking noises, despite picking an expensive one. ... They say sitting is the best way to climb but I guess I just do not do enough of it to really tell. I do know that when I am around more hilly terrain after a few days I get better at climbing. Same here but you have to keep at it at least once a week. Climbing endurance is quickly lost. Does the average cyclist planning to climb something like the Alpe D Huez factor in a break of a few minutes at some point or points. For me that entirely depends on whether there is a good saloon along the way 8-) ... Any climbing experts in this group. I am certainly not one. To me climbs are just a necessary evil of living in a hilly area. It's always a net 1200ft coming back from the valley with lots of ups and downs in between. Unfortunately it is not always possible to let'er rip on the downhills to gain momentum. You should get a Garmin or ride with someone who has one to see what the real elevation gain is between Sacto and Cameron Park. Saw-tooth climbs count extra, probably 50%. I did 1,200 feet of climbing in about three or so miles to get home after work last night, most of that after stopping at a work shindig in the lower West Hills. 16% climb to get to the gathering, then after leaving, about a 45% climb on stairs to get to a connector street. https://tinyurl.com/yc5pukmy And then various grades for the next few miles and then down to my neighborhood. Climbing advice: don't sit around eating pizza and beer and gin-and-tonics and then go climb. That's why I don't get the whole sitting around at pubs thing. I lose all desire to ride after drinking. -- Jay Beattie. OSHA approved stairways are 32 degrees max which is 62.5%. A 45% stairway is about 24 degrees. VERY few people can climb a 23% climb (13 degrees). I can only climb 23% in a 30/28 as long as it isn't more than a block long and I'm fresh. We just have been watching the Tour de France where all of the strongest riders in the world are straining in low gears to go over 12% and you're making comments as if you could ride up a stairway. No Tom, I got off my bike and walked an actual staircase. Look at the picture. We have those in Portland. Some are slippery wooden structures: https://tinyurl.com/y8wtmfoh And some are nice, tidy cement stairs.http://gentleartofwandering.com/wp-c...2-1024x768.jpg https://tinyurl.com/y7jk86ym Even in my 'hood which is at a lower elevation, my most frequent route home is bisected by a half-mile stair case. Frisky pedestrians can beat me walking because the road zig-zags up a scarp. It's embarrassing. I have to hit the gas to beat them. Here's the start of the stairs: https://tinyurl.com/yb5uul6c I ride up that broken-up goat road. Here's where the stairs hit the top, next to that house. https://tinyurl.com/y9qsv885 I've done the hike-a-bike, and its not really much fun. I prefer the road, although continuing on my ride home, I do have to climb some stairs -- but I ride the dirt path next to the stairs until I stall out or lose traction, which usually happens at about the same point. It's tricky getting off my bike without slipping down the hill. -- Jay Beattie. I was being sarcastic about how lightly you treat grades. I am now over 80,000 ft for the year where I get in 2200 to 4,000 feet in a ride all over 6%. I don't find climbing to be easy and it's hardly something to talk about as if it is. When I went down to Phoenix most of the people down there were having problems with overpasses. There was a 5% rise on one route and everyone was down into a 34/32. Sure you can climb but it requires a lot of practice. And you speaking of going up steep climbs half lit doesn't impress me that you're doing much climbing. When Chris Froome is turning purple on a 12% grade people ought to be more respectful rather than talking about a 24% grade as if it's no big deal. It entirely depends on the speed with which a grade is taken. Chris Froome would leave all of us in the dust. For example, there is a steep hill near me (Beatty Drive in El Dorado Hills) that I need about 10mins to climb while suppressing cuss words, a friend can do it in 7mins, and a brewer recently turned bike-pro can hammer up there in under 4mins. This guy: https://www.sacbee.com/entertainment...128935684.html This is also where every ounce of weight counts against you. I can leave a lot of cyclists behind me in the valley, just not uphill. Pros often run a find line regarding their weight. Quote from the above article: "I found (148 pounds) to be the ideal weight, but if I get lighter than that, I get sick more. If I'm heavier, I definitely feel it on the climbs". -- Regards, Joerg http://www.analogconsultants.com/ |
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