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#1
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Strategy in TDF and why some thing it's boring...
"brianb" wrote in message m...
Well the other day I said that LA should have tried to gain time on LU by going with Hamilton, and that it was dangerous to try to sit on a one minute lead. Of course I was roundly condemned, with one poster even calling me a troll! * * **** * * ***** * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * ** * * * * ***** ** * * * * * * ** **** **** * * ** **** **** * * * * * * * * * * ****** **** **** * * * * * * * * **** **** **** **** ** * * ** * ** **** ** * * **** **** ***** * **** * * * * ****** ***** * * * * * ** * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * ***** * * * * * * * * *** * * * * * * * ** * * * * * * ****** **** * * * * ****** ***** |
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#2
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Strategy in TDF and why some thing it's boring...
Well the other day I said that LA should have tried to gain time on LU
by going with Hamilton, and that it was dangerous to try to sit on a one minute lead. Of course I was roundly condemned, with one poster even calling me a troll! Whenever I try to relate cycle racing to my non-cycling friend I run into this same thing over and over. They want to see MORE CRASHES !! and the only thing anyone's interested in is the YELLOW JERSEY !!! While I don't think that the post, although slightly ignorrant, deserves all the flamage that it's getting -- It is important to remember that there's more to the TDF than Lance and Lars.....er...I mean Jan. The fact that Robbie got the green back and the fact that ERIC is going to get it anyway.....heh heh....is much MORE EXCITING at this stage in the race than a couple seconds here and there in the GC. In CLOSING....CRASHING IS NOT GOOD !!! IT ****ING SUCKS TO CRASH !!! the end |
#3
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Strategy in TDF and why some thing it's boring...
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#4
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Strategy in TDF and why some thing it's boring...
brianb wrote:
Well the other day I said that LA should have tried to gain time on LU by going with Hamilton, and that it was dangerous to try to sit on a one minute lead. Of course I was roundly condemned, with one poster even calling me a troll! I don't know much about cycling, obviously. But it seems for most of the time, there's no benefit to try to gain on your competition. Most days nothing happens. I think this is b/c of the wind advantage offered by the peloton. To escape you have to break away, do all the work yourself, and then be able to hold that position until the end. As a result of this, there's really very little "racing". The only real racing is in ITT, TTT, and in stages that end in a climb (where wind resistance is of little advantage b/c of slow speeds). So you have days like today, where LU and LA are in the peloton behind the breakaway team which is 20 minutes ahead. Why don't LA and LU follow them and try to gain time on each other. Make a "race" of it, so to speak. "No, no, no! you idiot!, they should stay with the peloton...don't waste energy trying to gain advantage!". OK, then, that's why people don't quite get cycling. Most of the time they're not really racing, just going for a ride in the country. A fast ride, a long ride, at speeds I couldn't do (obviously), but they're not really "racing" per se. The real racing is done in only a few stages at only a few times. If Jan closes on LANCE tomorrow, you might see some "real racing" on Sunday. Bike racing favors the patient viewer. The Vuelta often has some neat action on flat roads due to strong crosswinds. Teams will motor like hell to create gaps in the peloton, and it works. If a contender is on the wrong side of the gap, they're screwed. Last year, one or more contenders abandoned upon getting gapped by this technique. USPS has shown a talent for this tactic. But on the typical flat stage, the chance that such tactics will work is on the low side. You need a wind or hills, and you need the gap to open up right. Given the current focus on the time trial, I think teams would rather not take the chance on blowing up their motors. The potential for more amazing action even on the final day is large. Tomorrow will be a nail-biter. And if the race is even closer, prepare to be educated on Sunday. Who knows what Johann Bruyneel or Ullrich's DS will come up with? -- -- Lynn Wallace http://www.xmission.com/~lawall "I'm not proud. We really haven't done everything we could to protect our customers. Our products just aren't engineered for security." --Microsoft VP in charge of Windows OS Development, Brian Valentine. |
#6
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Strategy in TDF and why some thing it's boring...
Stage racing just IS a drawn-out, strategic, tactical game. So is Chess; most of the moves are minor, but the big moments are both anticipated and quite dramatic for those who understand the game. But then not so many people get that either... ;-) SB I like your metaphor with chess. However, in chess, your fate is under your own control, while in cycling some other guy can screw up and wipe you out. Not too much people could do to avoid the mash up at the end of stage one. Also, I think that it is a bit misleading to call any of the moves of a chess game "minor". Even a move of a lowly pawn can have ramifications for the rest of the game. To be sure, some chess games are "quieter" than others, with more suble maneuvers and positional play. I think the big moments in chess are often not anticipated by anybody, including the opponent of the player who uncorks the sacrificial combination. |
#7
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Strategy in TDF and why some thing it's boring...
"Isidor Gunsberg" wrote in message
om... Stage racing just IS a drawn-out, strategic, tactical game. So is Chess; most of the moves are minor, but the big moments are both anticipated and quite dramatic for those who understand the game. But then not so many people get that either... ;-) SB I like your metaphor with chess. However, in chess, your fate is under your own control, while in cycling some other guy can screw up and wipe you out. Not too much people could do to avoid the mash up at the end of stage one. Having been caught up in such personally, I couldn't agree more. Guess one's cat could leap onto the chess board! Also, I think that it is a bit misleading to call any of the moves of a chess game "minor". Even a move of a lowly pawn can have ramifications for the rest of the game. To be sure, some chess games are "quieter" than others, with more suble maneuvers and positional play. True; that word choice wasn't the best. Just meant that early in games you have more options and each move is generally less significant than later when it comes to the real cutting. ;-) I think the big moments in chess are often not anticipated by anybody, including the opponent of the player who uncorks the sacrificial combination. Especially the unwitting opponent! I was thinking, in line with the OP from the perspective of the observer, who ponders all the possible moves and outcomes, much as we do while watching the Grand Tours. You anticipate what might happen, then are either confirmed or surprised by what actually does. |
#8
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Strategy in TDF and why some thing it's boring...
"brianb" wrote in message m... Well the other day I said that LA should have tried to gain time on LU by going with Hamilton, and that it was dangerous to try to sit on a one minute lead. Of course I was roundly condemned, with one poster even calling me a troll! emphasis on key point I don't know much about cycling, obviously. snip Maybe you should learn more about the sport if you are truly interested. That is the height of narcissism to think that a sport of tactic should be changed for your entertainment. The entire podium did everything they could within their abilities to win the Tour. If you fail to recognize that incredible talent that each of them displayed, then the problem is with you. |
#9
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Strategy in TDF and why some thing it's boring...
In article , Nick Burns
wrote: "brianb" wrote in message m... Well the other day I said that LA should have tried to gain time on LU by going with Hamilton, and that it was dangerous to try to sit on a one minute lead. Of course I was roundly condemned, with one poster even calling me a troll! emphasis on key point I don't know much about cycling, obviously. snip Maybe you should learn more about the sport if you are truly interested. That is the height of narcissism to think that a sport of tactic should be changed for your entertainment. The entire podium did everything they could within their abilities to win the Tour. If you fail to recognize that incredible talent that each of them displayed, then the problem is with you. But Lance is now saying he made a mistake in not trying to take more time out of Ullrich on Alpe d'Huez. -WG |
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