Traffic lights

Should an organised group of cyclists, who have submitted a route plan
to the relevent authorities a week in advance, be able to consider
themselves as one vehicle and hold up motor traffic, at automatically
controlled junctions, if all cyclists cannot get through lights on a
single phase of green?

Would the above be beneficial to overall traffic flow or detrimental?


Should National Standard cycling instructors be allowed to hold up
motor traffic at automatically controlled junctions if all trainees
cannot pass safely on a single phase of green?

"Tom Crispin" wrote in message
...
Should an organised group of cyclists, who have submitted a route plan
to the relevent authorities a week in advance, be able to consider
themselves as one vehicle and hold up motor traffic, at automatically
controlled junctions, if all cyclists cannot get through lights on a
single phase of green?

Would the above be beneficial to overall traffic flow or detrimental?


Should National Standard cycling instructors be allowed to hold up
motor traffic at automatically controlled junctions if all trainees
cannot pass safely on a single phase of green?

Anything wrong with waiting at the other side of the junction and waiting
for the lights to change to regroup?

"Tom Crispin" wrote in message
...

Should an organised group of cyclists, who have submitted a route plan
to the relevent authorities a week in advance, be able to consider
themselves as one vehicle and hold up motor traffic, at automatically
controlled junctions, if all cyclists cannot get through lights on a
single phase of green?

This type of event would need to be oficially marshalled, as simply going
through a red light in the face of oncoming traffic could be lethal!

cheers adrian www.boliston.co.uk

Tom Crispin wrote:
Should an organised group of cyclists, who have submitted a route plan
to the relevent authorities a week in advance, be able to consider
themselves as one vehicle and hold up motor traffic, at automatically
controlled junctions, if all cyclists cannot get through lights on a
single phase of green?

Would you expect the same if you were a group travelling together in cars?


Would the above be beneficial to overall traffic flow or detrimental?


Detrimental because the vehicle on the cross route will not be
expecting you to be crossing when they have green leading to all sorts
of problems


Should National Standard cycling instructors be allowed to hold up
motor traffic at automatically controlled junctions if all trainees
cannot pass safely on a single phase of green?

Why is it such a large group that it can't make it in one go. Or is it
because some are not paying attention and get left behind. I would
suggest smaller groups and/or more attention on what they are supposed
to be doing.

Tony

Tom Crispin wrote:
Should an organised group of cyclists, who have submitted a route plan
to the relevent authorities a week in advance, be able to consider
themselves as one vehicle and hold up motor traffic, at automatically
controlled junctions, if all cyclists cannot get through lights on a
single phase of green?

The route plan would have to include such information that the "relevant
authorities" could decide to have applicable crossings attended by
traffic wardens or police to control the flows appropriately.

It's not going to happen for anything other than major-scale events.
--
Brian G
www.wetwo.co.uk

On Sun, 22 Jul 2007 09:49:18 +0100, "vernon"
wrote:


"Tom Crispin" wrote in message
.. .
Should an organised group of cyclists, who have submitted a route plan
to the relevent authorities a week in advance, be able to consider
themselves as one vehicle and hold up motor traffic, at automatically
controlled junctions, if all cyclists cannot get through lights on a
single phase of green?

Would the above be beneficial to overall traffic flow or detrimental?


Should National Standard cycling instructors be allowed to hold up
motor traffic at automatically controlled junctions if all trainees
cannot pass safely on a single phase of green?

Anything wrong with waiting at the other side of the junction and waiting
for the lights to change to regroup?

That's what happens at present.

When 'snaking' groups of up to 15 children on roads to a training site
I aim to arrive on red at lights. The co-instructor comes forward to
the stop line, and when the lights change to green I lead the trainees
across the junction. If the lights change to red, as they often do
because the lights will not pick up the weight of cyclists, the
co-instructor will remain at the stop line until the remainder of the
group has crossed the junction at the second or third green phase.

This can be particularly difficult at a particular right turn, often
taking three or even four phases to lead the group across.


On a mass ride into central London of well over 150 cyclists it was
taking a great many phases at some juctions to get the group across
the lights, and then the group would be split by right and left
turning vehicles, causing further traffic mayhem when the advance
peletons waited to regroup with rear peletons.

It would seem that traffic flow would be vastly improved for many road
users if mass peletons were treated as a single vehicle for the
purposes of crossing automatically controlled junctions.

On Sun, 22 Jul 2007 10:04:59 +0100, "Adrian Boliston"
wrote:

"Tom Crispin" wrote in message
.. .

Should an organised group of cyclists, who have submitted a route plan
to the relevent authorities a week in advance, be able to consider
themselves as one vehicle and hold up motor traffic, at automatically
controlled junctions, if all cyclists cannot get through lights on a
single phase of green?

This type of event would need to be oficially marshalled, as simply going
through a red light in the face of oncoming traffic could be lethal!

Leading a peleton through on a red phase would not be treating the
peleton as a single vehicle. Continuing through lights when they have
changed from green to red would be, and yes, it would need to be
properly marshalled.

In article , Tom Crispin
e says...
Should an organised group of cyclists, who have submitted a route plan
to the relevent authorities a week in advance, be able to consider
themselves as one vehicle and hold up motor traffic, at automatically
controlled junctions, if all cyclists cannot get through lights on a
single phase of green?

Would the above be beneficial to overall traffic flow or detrimental?

Should National Standard cycling instructors be allowed to hold up
motor traffic at automatically controlled junctions if all trainees
cannot pass safely on a single phase of green?

The only way you can safely override the lights at a junction is if
there's someone at each approach that needs to be stopped - usually
either a bike cop with flashing lights or a road worker in conspicuity
gear with a STOP/GO sign and advance warning signs.
If the group gets split up the first group should wait for the second at
the first safe convenient place. In most cases if the group is
approaching a green light it should be possible to slow down so it's red
when the leader reaches it, so the group has a full cycle to cross the
junction.
You might want two supervisors, one at the front, one at the back, so
any tailenders aren't left unsupervised, but if the group routinely
can't cross on a full cycle it's probably too large.

On Sun, 22 Jul 2007 10:11:11 +0100, Tony Raven
wrote:

Tom Crispin wrote:
Should an organised group of cyclists, who have submitted a route plan
to the relevent authorities a week in advance, be able to consider
themselves as one vehicle and hold up motor traffic, at automatically
controlled junctions, if all cyclists cannot get through lights on a
single phase of green?

Would you expect the same if you were a group travelling together in cars?

No, but I would expect the same for all the passengers on a bendy bus.

Would the above be beneficial to overall traffic flow or detrimental?


Detrimental because the vehicle on the cross route will not be
expecting you to be crossing when they have green leading to all sorts
of problems

Not if correctly marshalled.

Should National Standard cycling instructors be allowed to hold up
motor traffic at automatically controlled junctions if all trainees
cannot pass safely on a single phase of green?

Why is it such a large group that it can't make it in one go. Or is it
because some are not paying attention and get left behind. I would
suggest smaller groups and/or more attention on what they are supposed
to be doing.

Right turns with groups of up to 15 can be particularly difficult. The
problem is often made worse because automatic signals with traffic
sensors do not detect cyclists.

On Sun, 22 Jul 2007 10:27:45 +0100, Brian G
wrote:

Tom Crispin wrote:
Should an organised group of cyclists, who have submitted a route plan
to the relevent authorities a week in advance, be able to consider
themselves as one vehicle and hold up motor traffic, at automatically
controlled junctions, if all cyclists cannot get through lights on a
single phase of green?

The route plan would have to include such information that the "relevant
authorities" could decide to have applicable crossings attended by
traffic wardens or police to control the flows appropriately.

It's not going to happen for anything other than major-scale events.

The difficulties we encountered was during a mass ride to Hyde Park
for the TDF prologue. The police were unable to provide the support
they would have liked to because of the large number of events going
on in London that particular weekend and the hightened security alerts
following the attempted bombing at Glasgow Airport and in Central
London.