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  #31  
Old June 18th 19, 06:33 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Sir Ridesalot
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Posts: 4,295
Default Hot rodding e-bikes

On Tuesday, June 18, 2019 at 12:53:07 PM UTC-4, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 6/18/2019 12:33 PM, Zen Cycle wrote:
On Tuesday, June 18, 2019 at 10:21:25 AM UTC-4, jbeattie wrote:

Motor pacing on a bike is illegal on the road since it is "following
too closely."


Not in massachusetts. The 'following too closely' statute applies exclusively to motorized vehicles here. I've been lectured by more than a few cops from various towns here over the (many) years, but that's it. One said "I'd ticket you if I could".


I knew one local rider who got a "following too closely" ticket. The
judge and his staff laughed about it, and the judge threw it out.


--
- Frank Krygowski


How much did it cost the rider to go to court to have that ticket thrown out?

Cheers
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  #32  
Old June 18th 19, 06:57 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Zen Cycle
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Posts: 96
Default Hot rodding e-bikes

On Tuesday, June 18, 2019 at 1:14:55 PM UTC-4, jbeattie wrote:
On Tuesday, June 18, 2019 at 9:53:07 AM UTC-7, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 6/18/2019 12:33 PM, Zen Cycle wrote:
On Tuesday, June 18, 2019 at 10:21:25 AM UTC-4, jbeattie wrote:

Motor pacing on a bike is illegal on the road since it is "following
too closely."

Not in massachusetts. The 'following too closely' statute applies exclusively to motorized vehicles here. I've been lectured by more than a few cops from various towns here over the (many) years, but that's it. One said "I'd ticket you if I could".


I knew one local rider who got a "following too closely" ticket. The
judge and his staff laughed about it, and the judge threw it out.



Following a car too closely is probably an offense here because of our case law and the statute making the rules of the road that apply to "motor vehicles" equally applicable to bicycles with exceptions:


ORS 814.400

(1) Every person riding a bicycle upon a public way is subject to the provisions applicable to and has the same rights and duties as the driver of any other vehicle concerning operating on highways, vehicle equipment and abandoned vehicles, except:

(a) Those provisions which by their very nature can have no application.

(b) When otherwise specifically provided under the vehicle code.

(2) Subject to the provisions of subsection (1) of this section:

(a) A bicycle is a vehicle for purposes of the vehicle code; and

(b) When the term “vehicle” is used the term shall be deemed to be applicable to bicycles.

(3) The provisions of the vehicle code relating to the operation of bicycles do not relieve a bicyclist or motorist from the duty to exercise due care.


The fact that a rule of the road expressly references "motor vehicles" is not enough to exempt bicycles -- according to our CA.

The "following too closely" statute is also pretty vague, leaving open the question of what is "reasonably prudent." With two consenting cyclists, a few inches may be reasonably prudent.

Note that the statute also differentiates between "motor vehicle" and vehicle, making it clear that following a bicycle in a car too closely is also an offense.


ORS 811.485

(1) A person commits the offense of following too closely if the person does any of the following:

(a) Drives a motor vehicle so as to follow another vehicle more closely than is reasonable and prudent, having due regard for the speed of the vehicles and the traffic upon, and condition of, the highway.

* * * * *

-- Jay Beattie.


We have the "Cyclists' Bill of Rights"

https://www.massbike.org/laws
  #33  
Old June 19th 19, 04:08 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Frank Krygowski[_4_]
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Posts: 7,338
Default Hot rodding e-bikes

On 6/18/2019 1:33 PM, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
On Tuesday, June 18, 2019 at 12:53:07 PM UTC-4, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 6/18/2019 12:33 PM, Zen Cycle wrote:
On Tuesday, June 18, 2019 at 10:21:25 AM UTC-4, jbeattie wrote:

Motor pacing on a bike is illegal on the road since it is "following
too closely."

Not in massachusetts. The 'following too closely' statute applies exclusively to motorized vehicles here. I've been lectured by more than a few cops from various towns here over the (many) years, but that's it. One said "I'd ticket you if I could".


I knew one local rider who got a "following too closely" ticket. The
judge and his staff laughed about it, and the judge threw it out.


--
- Frank Krygowski


How much did it cost the rider to go to court to have that ticket thrown out?


Zero. I went with her to help explain the crash. Sadly, she didn't even
buy me lunch. (No good deed goes unpunished.)

--
- Frank Krygowski
  #34  
Old June 19th 19, 04:21 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Sir Ridesalot
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 4,295
Default Hot rodding e-bikes

On Tuesday, June 18, 2019 at 11:08:07 PM UTC-4, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 6/18/2019 1:33 PM, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
On Tuesday, June 18, 2019 at 12:53:07 PM UTC-4, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 6/18/2019 12:33 PM, Zen Cycle wrote:
On Tuesday, June 18, 2019 at 10:21:25 AM UTC-4, jbeattie wrote:

Motor pacing on a bike is illegal on the road since it is "following
too closely."

Not in massachusetts. The 'following too closely' statute applies exclusively to motorized vehicles here. I've been lectured by more than a few cops from various towns here over the (many) years, but that's it. One said "I'd ticket you if I could".

I knew one local rider who got a "following too closely" ticket. The
judge and his staff laughed about it, and the judge threw it out.


--
- Frank Krygowski


How much did it cost the rider to go to court to have that ticket thrown out?


Zero. I went with her to help explain the crash. Sadly, she didn't even
buy me lunch. (No good deed goes unpunished.)

--
- Frank Krygowski


Crash? What crash? You said the judge threw out the "following too closely" ticket your bicycling friend got. Are you saying that the ticket was thrown out without the bicyclist needing to appear in court? If the bicyclist had to appear in court to get that ticket thrown out then how much in lost wages was the bicyclist out? How much was the ticket for?

Cheers
  #35  
Old June 19th 19, 03:57 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Frank Krygowski[_4_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 7,338
Default Hot rodding e-bikes

On 6/18/2019 11:21 PM, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
On Tuesday, June 18, 2019 at 11:08:07 PM UTC-4, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 6/18/2019 1:33 PM, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
On Tuesday, June 18, 2019 at 12:53:07 PM UTC-4, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 6/18/2019 12:33 PM, Zen Cycle wrote:
On Tuesday, June 18, 2019 at 10:21:25 AM UTC-4, jbeattie wrote:

Motor pacing on a bike is illegal on the road since it is "following
too closely."

Not in massachusetts. The 'following too closely' statute applies exclusively to motorized vehicles here. I've been lectured by more than a few cops from various towns here over the (many) years, but that's it. One said "I'd ticket you if I could".

I knew one local rider who got a "following too closely" ticket. The
judge and his staff laughed about it, and the judge threw it out.


--
- Frank Krygowski

How much did it cost the rider to go to court to have that ticket thrown out?


Zero. I went with her to help explain the crash. Sadly, she didn't even
buy me lunch. (No good deed goes unpunished.)

--
- Frank Krygowski


Crash? What crash? You said the judge threw out the "following too closely" ticket your bicycling friend got. Are you saying that the ticket was thrown out without the bicyclist needing to appear in court? If the bicyclist had to appear in court to get that ticket thrown out then how much in lost wages was the bicyclist out? How much was the ticket for?


I've told about this many times before, but:

Maybe ten years ago, we were on a club ride. My wife and I were on our
old tandem, custom built in 1979 by Jim Bradford, then of Georgia. (I've
been told he now lives in Canada - possibly to escape lawsuits?) The
bike is oversized Reynolds 531 throughout... except the forks.

Anyway, we turned left off a state highway onto a bumpy side road. Some
other riders' turns were held up by traffic, so we were going very slow,
probably less than ten mph. As I was watching my mirror for the delayed
riders, I hit a small bump, and we were on the ground. Both front forks
had suddenly snapped off just below the fork crown.

(It turns out that Bradford, in his haste to finish the tandem before
leaving on his honeymoon, had used track gage forks instead of tandem
gage. The wall thickness of our original forks was one third what it
should have been. Of course, I didn't know that until they broke.)

A woman was riding behind us. When we did our sudden stop, she ran into
us and crashed. Despite her magic hat, she had facial injuries and went
to the ER. A State Highway Patrolman visited her there and wrote a
ticket for following too closely.

I thought it was bogus, so I chose to help her fight the ticket. She and
I showed up at traffic court with my front wheel with two broken-off
fork blades attached. The judge said "This is about a BICYCLE CRASH??"
We said yes, there was no car involved. He said "I'm throwing this out.
You're free to go."

--
- Frank Krygowski
  #36  
Old June 19th 19, 09:24 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Sir Ridesalot
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 4,295
Default Hot rodding e-bikes

On Wednesday, June 19, 2019 at 10:57:53 AM UTC-4, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 6/18/2019 11:21 PM, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
On Tuesday, June 18, 2019 at 11:08:07 PM UTC-4, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 6/18/2019 1:33 PM, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
On Tuesday, June 18, 2019 at 12:53:07 PM UTC-4, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 6/18/2019 12:33 PM, Zen Cycle wrote:
On Tuesday, June 18, 2019 at 10:21:25 AM UTC-4, jbeattie wrote:

Motor pacing on a bike is illegal on the road since it is "following
too closely."

Not in massachusetts. The 'following too closely' statute applies exclusively to motorized vehicles here. I've been lectured by more than a few cops from various towns here over the (many) years, but that's it. One said "I'd ticket you if I could".

I knew one local rider who got a "following too closely" ticket. The
judge and his staff laughed about it, and the judge threw it out.


--
- Frank Krygowski

How much did it cost the rider to go to court to have that ticket thrown out?

Zero. I went with her to help explain the crash. Sadly, she didn't even
buy me lunch. (No good deed goes unpunished.)

--
- Frank Krygowski


Crash? What crash? You said the judge threw out the "following too closely" ticket your bicycling friend got. Are you saying that the ticket was thrown out without the bicyclist needing to appear in court? If the bicyclist had to appear in court to get that ticket thrown out then how much in lost wages was the bicyclist out? How much was the ticket for?


I've told about this many times before, but:

Maybe ten years ago, we were on a club ride. My wife and I were on our
old tandem, custom built in 1979 by Jim Bradford, then of Georgia. (I've
been told he now lives in Canada - possibly to escape lawsuits?) The
bike is oversized Reynolds 531 throughout... except the forks.

Anyway, we turned left off a state highway onto a bumpy side road. Some
other riders' turns were held up by traffic, so we were going very slow,
probably less than ten mph. As I was watching my mirror for the delayed
riders, I hit a small bump, and we were on the ground. Both front forks
had suddenly snapped off just below the fork crown.

(It turns out that Bradford, in his haste to finish the tandem before
leaving on his honeymoon, had used track gage forks instead of tandem
gage. The wall thickness of our original forks was one third what it
should have been. Of course, I didn't know that until they broke.)

A woman was riding behind us. When we did our sudden stop, she ran into
us and crashed. Despite her magic hat, she had facial injuries and went
to the ER. A State Highway Patrolman visited her there and wrote a
ticket for following too closely.

I thought it was bogus, so I chose to help her fight the ticket. She and
I showed up at traffic court with my front wheel with two broken-off
fork blades attached. The judge said "This is about a BICYCLE CRASH??"
We said yes, there was no car involved. He said "I'm throwing this out.
You're free to go."

--
- Frank Krygowski


So how much in lost wages did the two of you lose in order to beat that ticket? How much was the ticket for?

Cheers
  #37  
Old June 20th 19, 01:11 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Frank Krygowski[_4_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 7,338
Default Hot rodding e-bikes

On 6/19/2019 4:24 PM, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
On Wednesday, June 19, 2019 at 10:57:53 AM UTC-4, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 6/18/2019 11:21 PM, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
On Tuesday, June 18, 2019 at 11:08:07 PM UTC-4, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 6/18/2019 1:33 PM, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
On Tuesday, June 18, 2019 at 12:53:07 PM UTC-4, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 6/18/2019 12:33 PM, Zen Cycle wrote:
On Tuesday, June 18, 2019 at 10:21:25 AM UTC-4, jbeattie wrote:

Motor pacing on a bike is illegal on the road since it is "following
too closely."

Not in massachusetts. The 'following too closely' statute applies exclusively to motorized vehicles here. I've been lectured by more than a few cops from various towns here over the (many) years, but that's it. One said "I'd ticket you if I could".

I knew one local rider who got a "following too closely" ticket. The
judge and his staff laughed about it, and the judge threw it out.


--
- Frank Krygowski

How much did it cost the rider to go to court to have that ticket thrown out?

Zero. I went with her to help explain the crash. Sadly, she didn't even
buy me lunch. (No good deed goes unpunished.)

--
- Frank Krygowski

Crash? What crash? You said the judge threw out the "following too closely" ticket your bicycling friend got. Are you saying that the ticket was thrown out without the bicyclist needing to appear in court? If the bicyclist had to appear in court to get that ticket thrown out then how much in lost wages was the bicyclist out? How much was the ticket for?


I've told about this many times before, but:

Maybe ten years ago, we were on a club ride. My wife and I were on our
old tandem, custom built in 1979 by Jim Bradford, then of Georgia. (I've
been told he now lives in Canada - possibly to escape lawsuits?) The
bike is oversized Reynolds 531 throughout... except the forks.

Anyway, we turned left off a state highway onto a bumpy side road. Some
other riders' turns were held up by traffic, so we were going very slow,
probably less than ten mph. As I was watching my mirror for the delayed
riders, I hit a small bump, and we were on the ground. Both front forks
had suddenly snapped off just below the fork crown.

(It turns out that Bradford, in his haste to finish the tandem before
leaving on his honeymoon, had used track gage forks instead of tandem
gage. The wall thickness of our original forks was one third what it
should have been. Of course, I didn't know that until they broke.)

A woman was riding behind us. When we did our sudden stop, she ran into
us and crashed. Despite her magic hat, she had facial injuries and went
to the ER. A State Highway Patrolman visited her there and wrote a
ticket for following too closely.

I thought it was bogus, so I chose to help her fight the ticket. She and
I showed up at traffic court with my front wheel with two broken-off
fork blades attached. The judge said "This is about a BICYCLE CRASH??"
We said yes, there was no car involved. He said "I'm throwing this out.
You're free to go."

--
- Frank Krygowski


So how much in lost wages did the two of you lose in order to beat that ticket? How much was the ticket for?


I was and am retired. I don't think she was at the time, but I assume
she took a personal day off work.

I don't know what the ticket would have cost her.


--
- Frank Krygowski
 




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