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Making America into Amsterdam



 
 
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  #181  
Old July 17th 18, 03:11 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
JBeattie
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Posts: 5,870
Default Making America into Amsterdam

On Tuesday, July 17, 2018 at 6:11:28 AM UTC-7, duane wrote:
On 17/07/2018 8:00 AM, Duane wrote:
On 16/07/2018 5:42 PM, Joerg wrote:
On 2018-07-16 12:46, jbeattie wrote:


snip

Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â* Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â* ... I rode five miles to a
rural tavern with a broken hand -- which now has a dandy plate and
screws in it. I doubt they had a fine micro-brewed double IPA, but
they did have ice cubes.


Lucky you. Now try that on singletrack with loose rocks strewn all over.

Ads
  #182  
Old July 17th 18, 03:41 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
SMS
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Default Making America into Amsterdam

On 7/16/2018 9:21 PM, Joy Beeson wrote:
On Mon, 16 Jul 2018 09:08:52 -0700 (PDT), jbeattie
wrote:

That's a road bike with panniers with probably 28mm tires and,
gasp, ordinary rim brakes. It's not going trail riding any time soon.


Depends on who is riding it.

Despite the dismal results of Thursday's MRI, I still think that I
could take my road bike anywhere the young boys can take their
mountain bikes. But I haven't been on the trails much after the local
Powers that Be built a "Greenway" that obliterated most of the trail
that I used to use as a shortcut to Southtown, and I mostly walk.*

So the Heritage Trail is one "bike path" that I do use for
transportation -- but it's *very* telling that an essential feature of
every "bike path" is a parking lot at each end.


Where is this the case? In my area, there are no parking lots for bike
paths. There are usually nearby streets with street parking, and some
paths go through parks that have parking.
  #183  
Old July 17th 18, 03:49 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Joerg[_2_]
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Posts: 6,016
Default Making America into Amsterdam

On 2018-07-16 16:49, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 7/16/2018 2:05 PM, Joerg wrote:
On 2018-07-16 10:14, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 7/16/2018 1:20 AM, wrote:
On Wednesday, July 4, 2018 at 11:21:46 AM UTC-5, duane wrote:

Is there any place that is seriously looking at bike infrastructure to
increase revenues?

Here the motivation is to reduce the number of cars in a city that
can't
handle much more traffic. Cycling is treated in much the same way as
public transit. The city wants to reduce motor vehicle traffic in
town.

In my city, which has many miles of bike paths, the bike paths are
under the parks and recreation department of the government. In my
city we treat bike paths as parks. Recreational areas. I doubt any
park in the country has paid for itself. Parks are generally built as
a quality of life enhancement.

And I strongly agree with that policy. Almost all bike paths, IME, are
really linear parks.

Trouble is, there are many of these linear parks that are built using
transportation funds. I don't think that's appropriate.


That assertion is wrong.

https://www.cityofberkeley.info/bicy...walkingguides/

It even says transportation on their web site. Because that's what
many bike paths are.


sigh Joerg, what are we talking about here? The maps they have up
there mostly cover streets, not trails. Yes, streets are for
transportation. But as I said, almost all bike paths are really linear
parks. IOW their recreational use _far_ exceeds their transportation use
- like by a 100 to 1 ratio.


Go to the Bay Area, go to Sacramento, go to Davis or almost anywhere
around here and you will see that that is not correct.



Although there are a few miles of bike paths alongside the busy roads
going into the downtown. I suppose those are for vehicle reduction
purposes.

Those can possibly justify transportation funding. With them, the issue
tends to be quality of design. There's currently too much pushing for
crazy and confusing "innovation."


Unless it's done right.


The apologists for weird facilities are always saying "Well, the old
facilities weren't done right. Now we're doing it right."


Well, they are. When we moved to the US I would have never dreamed that
would happen, ever. Until it started a few years ago. That resulted in
me and many neighbors to start cycling again.

Yesterday I saw a really nice result of our county road now having a
wider shoulder and bike lane in many places. A seriously obese guy was
huffing up a frustrating hill on his road bike in 95F weather. He had a
computer pack on his back so he was most likely a commuter. If he keeps
this up that rider will do more for his health than pills could ever do.


But DC's quite new "protected" lanes had intersections with crash rates
between two times and five times worse than before the installation.
Columbus, Ohio's one mile of "protected" cycle track had a crash
increase of over 600%. No, that's not a typo. That facility was put in
just three years ago.


So paths are designed well, some not so well. Well design bike paths
reduce the number of serious accidents. However, I don't have the time
to roll this up again. It has already been discussed ad nauseam. You
keep your opinion, I keep mine.


Deaths in "protected" cycle tracks keep popping up in the news, usually
because a straight-ahead cyclist surprises a turning motorist. Hmm: A
straight ahead bike lane hidden from view, to the right of a right turn
motor vehicle lane? Gosh, what could go wrong?


Traffic lights have been invented a long time ago. So has prudence on
the part of the cyclist.

_All_ the critical right-hook situations or crashes I have experience or
witnessed happened in the lane and none on bike paths.

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/
  #184  
Old July 17th 18, 03:56 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Joerg[_2_]
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Posts: 6,016
Default Making America into Amsterdam

On 2018-07-16 18:42, John B. Slocomb wrote:
On Mon, 16 Jul 2018 19:33:37 -0400, Frank Krygowski
wrote:

On 7/16/2018 1:41 PM, Joerg wrote:
On 2018-07-16 10:23, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 7/16/2018 1:19 PM, Joerg wrote:
On 2018-07-16 09:08, jbeattie wrote:
On Monday, July 16, 2018 at 7:56:37 AM UTC-7, Joerg wrote:
On 2018-07-15 15:01, jbeattie wrote:

[...]


We met at a coffee shop this morning, but I didn't partake. Got
up to 95F, and I ran out of water, so I stopped at a market with
my cohorts. Also stopped for a little ferry.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qEfIcrKZesw&t=3s What a beautiful
day it was. No pubs. Yesterday was a death ride with my son, and
no pubs -- although I did have a beer at home, and Tylenol.
Obviously two no-fun rides because they didn't involve a pub of
any kind.


Somewhere between 95-100F yesterday, did a 20-miler after church.

http://mikebikehike.com/wp-content/u...6/IMG_0140.jpg

No, this ain't my bike. In contrast to some here who find that
"unusual" lots of people in our area ride with panniers. For longer
rides in hilly terrain without water spigots there is no
alternative other that schlepping a hydration pack which will
result in profuse sweating. Or drink American River water and get
E-Coli.

Oh, and I had an IPA on the way back 8-)

Again, you're mixing road and trail. That's a road bike with
panniers with probably 28mm tires and, gasp, ordinary rim brakes.
It's not going trail riding any time soon.


I have Nashbar Daytrekker panniers on both my road bike and my MTB.


I don't think it's unusual to see road bikes with panniers. I
probably saw 20-30 cyclists with panniers on the way to work this
morning. I think its unusual to need panniers with tons of junk in
them for a recreational weekend ride with friends, and in your case,
drinking at a pub.


It is when you find another rider bleeding and in need of something to
stop that.

Because riding a bike is so damned dangerous, one comes across bleeding
riders nearly every day!!


A few times a year. They aren't always cyclists.


Well, at least ALL your "Danger! Danger!" isn't applied to cyclists.



Yeah, right, it's just hikers so they are not important? Many of the
dehydrated people I found were hikers that I encountered on my MTB.
Which is actually helpful because since I modified the back I can easily
carry over a gallon of water on the MTB.


Is that not worth it in
your opinion? You'd just bid them a good day and leave? I sure don't. As
the scouts say, be prepared, always.


I've seen only a tiny amount of bleeding in over 45 years of adult
cycling. And the "bleeding" I've seen would be better described as
seeping - specifically, the little bit of blood that comes from minor
road rash. What do I carry on my bike to prepare for that? Precisely
nothing.

My wife tends to worry a bit more than I do, and when attending a
certain medical seminar she was once given a tiny, near useless first
aid kit. She carried it in her bike bag for years and never used it. She
finally ditched it.

But we have no mountain lions around here, and our coyotes seem quite timid.

You would not believe how often my "excess baggage" has saved the day
for others with serious signs of dehydration and zero ounces in their
bottles.

You're right about that: I would not believe. Unless, that is, you're
going to give us a very, very low number.


One guy (on a hike in Yosemite) would most likely not have made it if it
wasn't for a large excess stash of water and food in our backpacks. ...
A Chinese tourist in Grand Canyon ran out of water and gave up on the
trail, in the glistening sun. Just wanted to "stay there". I have her a
lot of water and food until she perked up.


Oh, silly me. I thought we were talking about bicycling!


How strange.

Over here the Chinese tourists all travel in groups on pre-arranged
tours. There are two reasons for this, firstly some of the more remote
Chinese dialects probably won't be understood outside their local
regions and secondly that the Chinese, like the Japanese before them,
tend to be on prepaid tours. Pay the full amount of the tour tour cost
before you depart and enjoy a fun filled, jam packed, vacation with
every minute supervised by the tour guide.

We recently had a tour boat sink in Phuket and a number of Chinese
were drowned. The next morning the news announced that 27,000 Chinese
had cancelled their visit to Phuket. They seem to act as groups.

Wandering about alone and getting dehydrated just doesn't seem to
happen with the Chinese here. Strange that they are so different in
America.

Or perhaps they aren't. After all he quotes the Chinese saying "I
wanna stay here" something that would be impossible with a real
Chinese Tour member as he wouldn't have spoken English and if he were
speaking the kind of Chinese that you hear in N.E. Thailand it would
sound much like "Koi Yak Hi Chow You Mong Me".

But then the Chinese have figured in some of the more imaginative
writing. Remember Fu Manchu and the Yellow Peril ?


Believe it or not but there are Chinese who do speak English. There are
also Chinese who vacation like we used to, landing, renting a car and
heading out, sans pre-reserved hotel beds. Many did it like us,
reserving only the first and last night at a hotel near the airport. We
met many of them during our trips.

There are people in this world who, like us, can't stand being cooped up
in a tour bus and being told "Hurry, we've only got 20 minutes here".

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/
  #185  
Old July 17th 18, 04:18 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Duane[_2_]
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Posts: 401
Default Making America into Amsterdam

On 17/07/2018 10:11 AM, jbeattie wrote:
On Tuesday, July 17, 2018 at 6:11:28 AM UTC-7, duane wrote:
On 17/07/2018 8:00 AM, Duane wrote:
On 16/07/2018 5:42 PM, Joerg wrote:
On 2018-07-16 12:46, jbeattie wrote:

snip

Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â* Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â* ... I rode five miles to a
rural tavern with a broken hand -- which now has a dandy plate and
screws in it. I doubt they had a fine micro-brewed double IPA, but
they did have ice cubes.


Lucky you. Now try that on singletrack with loose rocks strewn all over.



Hence my confusion Jay.

snip


Actually looks like it's a thing:
https://www.singletracks.com/blog/mt...iking-problem/


I was just riding in Bend and drank at two brew pubs! Does that make me cool? I sure hope so. Here's my story of grueling-ness: I rode up Mt. Bachelor. https://localfreshies.com/wp-content...ak_2014_V1.jpg I was a little crampy and needed a toilet. Everything was closed at the ski resort. I even rode around the super gnarly and dangerous loose scree at the back of the lodge looking for a bathroom. Nothing! So I launched down the mountain and held it for 22-23 miles all the way back to Sun River, just avoiding a Tom Dumoulin moment. There were some campgrounds along the way, but I didn't feel like stopping. The end.

Because I knew the ride would be epic, I bought an extra CO2 cartridge -- but no rope, CPR mask, ham radio, beer, etc. No dehydrated Asian tourists, dying cyclists, mountain lions, friendly horses who somehow seemed attracted to me -- no birds, landing on my arm, singing. Ho hum.

-- Jay Beattie.


Yeah, I'm only starting to realize how boring an existence I lead.
250km over the weekend. Hot as hell here. Near New Orleans weather.

Didn't have to pull a trailer of IPA to prevent dehydration. Although
the convenience stores in the wilds of Ontario are few and far between.
Somehow survived with a couple of water bottles.

No mountain lion attacks, although I did see a chipmunk trying to attack
the group but we were able to avoid him. And there were some cows
crossing a road that could have gone rogue. And the alpaca farm...

Missed most of the World Cup final on Sunday though. I guess I could
have wired up a monitor on my handlebars with a blue tooth connection
and picked it up on my phone but you never know when the connection gets
flaky "out there."

Just a couple of hotish longish rides with some friends. Imagine what
I'm missing...
  #186  
Old July 17th 18, 06:18 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Frank Krygowski[_2_]
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Posts: 7,511
Default Making America into Amsterdam

On Tuesday, July 17, 2018 at 10:56:19 AM UTC-4, Joerg wrote:
On 2018-07-16 18:42, John B. Slocomb wrote:
On Mon, 16 Jul 2018 19:33:37 -0400, Frank Krygowski wrote:


Well, at least ALL your "Danger! Danger!" isn't applied to cyclists.



Yeah, right, it's just hikers so they are not important?


Joerg, I've done tons of hiking and a fair amount of backpacking. I've come
across many hikers while mountain biking, too. I've never seen one that needed
rescue.

I know you live in a land where terrible hazards are around every corner,
a place where only your incredible wisdom keeps you and others alive.
But I think that place is your imagination.

- Frank Krygowski
  #187  
Old July 17th 18, 07:13 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Joerg[_2_]
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Posts: 6,016
Default Making America into Amsterdam

On 2018-07-16 17:11, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 7/16/2018 5:42 PM, Joerg wrote:
On 2018-07-16 12:46, jbeattie wrote:
On Monday, July 16, 2018 at 10:19:52 AM UTC-7, Joerg wrote:

I've use rope to tow another rider. When the rear derailer gets
pretzeled out in the boonies the only other option would be to hoof
it and be late.

Or straighten the derailleur with your hand and ride on. Again, we're
talking about road bikes. With my last crash, I not only straightened
the derailleur enough to continue riding, ...



In our case the outer shell of the derailer was no longer in one
piece, the chain was throughly mangled and IIRC one of the derailer
idlers had gone AWOL. That presents a minor inconvenience.


The classic solution is to shorten the chain so it fits from appropriate
chainring to appropriate rear cog, bypassing the derailleur. Start by
finding a nail plus a rock, of course...


The bike frame even had those old-fashioned long-slotted drop-outs with
peg screws which would have made adjusting to a shorter chain sans
derailer easy. However, there was not enough non-mangled stretch of
chain left to do that. The whole chain was a mess. It happens. Not to
anyone around you, ever, of course.

[...]

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/
  #188  
Old July 17th 18, 09:11 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Joerg[_2_]
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Posts: 6,016
Default Making America into Amsterdam

On 2018-07-17 12:44, AMuzi wrote:
On 7/17/2018 2:14 PM, Joerg wrote:
On 2018-07-17 11:39, jbeattie wrote:


[...]

On the road, we're talking warm-up distance.


This ain't road. Not very gnarly but it is strenuous because
of lots of up and down. In contrast to roads you can't
really bomb down a hill either to make up time and some energy.


Oh yeah, how about riding in Menasha Wisconsin tough guy?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2wucmOMXEsg

Bridge just jumped out and bit her without warning.


Ouch. A Red Bull rider would cycle up the bridge at full bore, jump over
the top gap, then down the other side and roll up to a pub. While
rolling a Bull Durham cigarette.

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/
  #189  
Old July 17th 18, 10:50 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Sepp Ruf
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Posts: 454
Default Making America into Amsterdam

Joerg wrote:
On 2018-07-16 09:38, Sepp Ruf wrote:


Speaking of stomach ulcers and straining to keep up with the RARE faster
rider:
Does anyone have an idea how strong an "emergency fluid" needs to be to kill
ingested helicobacter-pylori that a fly occasionally carries into the
carelessly opened mouth during strenuous cycling, especially when riding
dangerously upright (Dutch-geometry) cycles? There rarely are any St.
Bernard dogs around any more I could ask for a double brandy. So I tend to
just have a yoghurt with cayenne pepper and a garlic clove asap if it's too
late to spit the insect out. But I'd really prefer to apply some kind of
cold beer or whiskey-cola. Any ideas, home-brew or not?


Ah, another excuse for carrying a homemade IPA on this weeks MTB ride :-)



Trying to dive deeper into antibacterial beer case law, I merely found this:

Chasing Cyclists argue and spit at each other for fly

Cologne -

Last Wednesday (13.07.) there was a curious dispute among cyclists on the
Friedrich-Ebert-Ufer in Cologne. According to police, a 52-year-old cyclist
was on his way north in the Porz district when a fly flew into his mouth. He
then spat them out, but met a cyclist riding behind him.

Both men then got into an argument, after which the 52-year-old was spat on.
His adversary fled with his bike, the 52-year-old tried to catch up with
him. In this attempt, the pursuer slowed down considerably, the 52-year-old
could no longer stop in time - both collided. The 52-year-old was injured.
Unknown man flees - Police Cologne seeks witnesses

Thereupon another quarrel broke out among the men, followed by insults.
After both had agreed to inform the police, the unknown cyclist fled in the
direction of Westhoven.

The fugitive is described as follows: He's about six feet tall, bearded and
rode a city bike. Striking were his long blond hair tied together and a half
bald head.

Anyone who can provide information about the incident or the fugitive is
requested to contact the Cologne police on (....)

- deepl'ed
https://www.rundschau-online.de/region/koeln/verfolgungsjagd-radfahrer-streiten-und-spucken-sich-gegenseitig-wegen-fliege-an-30969130
-
  #190  
Old July 17th 18, 11:46 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Joerg[_2_]
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Posts: 6,016
Default Making America into Amsterdam

On 2018-07-17 14:50, Sepp Ruf wrote:
Joerg wrote:
On 2018-07-16 09:38, Sepp Ruf wrote:


Speaking of stomach ulcers and straining to keep up with the RARE faster
rider:
Does anyone have an idea how strong an "emergency fluid" needs to be to kill
ingested helicobacter-pylori that a fly occasionally carries into the
carelessly opened mouth during strenuous cycling, especially when riding
dangerously upright (Dutch-geometry) cycles? There rarely are any St.
Bernard dogs around any more I could ask for a double brandy. So I tend to
just have a yoghurt with cayenne pepper and a garlic clove asap if it's too
late to spit the insect out. But I'd really prefer to apply some kind of
cold beer or whiskey-cola. Any ideas, home-brew or not?


Ah, another excuse for carrying a homemade IPA on this weeks MTB ride :-)



Trying to dive deeper into antibacterial beer case law, I merely found this:

Chasing Cyclists argue and spit at each other for fly

Cologne -

Last Wednesday (13.07.) there was a curious dispute among cyclists on the
Friedrich-Ebert-Ufer in Cologne. According to police, a 52-year-old cyclist
was on his way north in the Porz district when a fly flew into his mouth. He
then spat them out, but met a cyclist riding behind him.

Both men then got into an argument, after which the 52-year-old was spat on.
His adversary fled with his bike, the 52-year-old tried to catch up with
him. In this attempt, the pursuer slowed down considerably, the 52-year-old
could no longer stop in time - both collided. The 52-year-old was injured.
Unknown man flees - Police Cologne seeks witnesses

Thereupon another quarrel broke out among the men, followed by insults.
After both had agreed to inform the police, the unknown cyclist fled in the
direction of Westhoven.

The fugitive is described as follows: He's about six feet tall, bearded and
rode a city bike. Striking were his long blond hair tied together and a half
bald head.

Anyone who can provide information about the incident or the fugitive is
requested to contact the Cologne police on (....)

- deepl'ed
https://www.rundschau-online.de/region/koeln/verfolgungsjagd-radfahrer-streiten-und-spucken-sich-gegenseitig-wegen-fliege-an-30969130
-


In the US we have a much nastier habit among weight weenie cyclists who
probably find the weight of a paper tissue unbearable. So they don't
carry any. When the nose gets plugged they press a finger against one
side and let off a "snot rocket", then against the other for missile #2.
I was almost hit by one when pulling out to pass a cyclist. It's disgusting.

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/
 




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