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#21
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Bicyclists going wrong way and other crimes
On Fri, 30 Jul 2004 03:06:54 GMT, AustinMN wrote:
R15757 blurted out without thinking: Luigi de Guzman wrote in part: I cannot overstate the cross-traffic hazard; a car wishing to turn right on to the roadway isn't looking for a bicycle coming at him from the wrong side on a sidepath, moving at 15-25 mph. He looks left to check for oncoming traffic, sees none, and drives out-- Into you. Only if you're stupid enough to actually ride in front of a car with a driver who is looking the other direction and who is obviously preparing to pull out. So, you never ride in front of a stopped car about to turn right? Because this is exactly what every driver is doing. They are looking for relevant traffic, which, in a right-turn, is coming from the left. The only reason to look right is to check for pedestrians, and that only requires looking five feet down the road. Austin When that happens I either slow way down and signal the driver to go ahead or drive behind him if it is clear. As I mentioned I will get off the bike if the situation warrants it. I am not a speed freak who has to do 25mph ALL the time. By myself and with the occasional tailwind I have exceeded the 25mph limit sometimes but do not make it a habit. I learned that even with one of my motorcycles you are still invisible to most auto drivers and bikes are no different. Bill Baka -- Using M2, Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/m2/ |
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#22
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Bicyclists going wrong way and other crimes
On Thu, 29 Jul 2004 23:56:24 -0400, Frank Krygowski
wrote: R15757 wrote: Luigi de Guzman wrote in part: I cannot overstate the cross-traffic hazard; a car wishing to turn right on to the roadway isn't looking for a bicycle coming at him from the wrong side on a sidepath, moving at 15-25 mph. He looks left to check for oncoming traffic, sees none, and drives out-- Into you. Only if you're stupid enough to actually ride in front of a car with a driver who is looking the other direction and who is obviously preparing to pull out. ... or who is UN-obviously preparing to pull out. Seems to me the choices a a) make your own back-assward rules, and stop for every vehicle that might under any circumstances come at you from any direction. (Sounds _very_ slow and inconvenient) b) make your own back-assward rules and rely on your keenly honed, super-human reflexes to save you from trouble (Yeah, right!) c) ride according to the rules of the road, so people can actually give you right of way, anticipate your moves, see you where you're expected to be, etc. I pick the third one. If nothing else, it's proven safer, and it's a lot less hassle. Yeah, C) would be the logical choice but I have been hit from behind by a teenager in a lowered truck. I was already on the farthest right side of the road, crossing some rr tracks and he had no oncoming traffic and could have moved into the other lane but didn't bother. His outside rear view mirror smacked my elbow and gave me a sizable welt, but his mirror was knocked loose and dangling. I was riding to the letter of the law and it didn't prevent me from getting hit. The insult was when I tried to file a police report and they totally blew me off. I guess if I had called 911 for an ambulance they might have made something out of it. Bill Baka -- Using M2, Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/m2/ |
#23
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Bicyclists going wrong way and other crimes
On 29 Jul 2004 21:07:09 -0700, Laura Bush murdered her boy friend
wrote: Alex Rodriguez wrote in message ... In article , says... Was making a right a few days back and looked to my left and saw it was clear so started making the turn. And theres a cyclist 20 feet away coming right towards me hugging the curb on his left side of the road. Didn't hit him but certainly could have. Cyclists do this a lot and i understand why - for them it is safer. But i'm sure it's illegal. Also saw a cyclist run a red light to make a left hand turn with a cop stopped at the intersection. Cop did nothing. WRONG! It is not safer to ride against traffic. Hopefully this cyclist will figure out the error of his ways before he gets hurt, or causes seomeone else to get hurt. -------------- Alex Yes it is safer. Cause then they can see any car headed towards them. When they're on the right side, the cars are coming from their rear. Thanks for that, since that is exactly my point. If you see someone coming at you hugging the shoulder or weaving while under the influence you have a bit more time to think about pulling over into the weeds/ditch and avoiding getting hit. I also have to deal with farm equipment that takes up most of the road. Bill Baka -- Using M2, Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/m2/ |
#24
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Bicyclists going wrong way and other crimes
On Fri, 30 Jul 2004 04:48:52 GMT, Timothy J. Lee
wrote: In article , Laura Bush murdered her boy friend wrote: Alex Rodriguez wrote in message ... WRONG! It is not safer to ride against traffic. Hopefully this cyclist will figure out the error of his ways before he gets hurt, or causes seomeone else to get hurt. Yes it is safer. Cause then they can see any car headed towards them. When they're on the right side, the cars are coming from their rear. It is well known from many studies that it is much more dangerous to ride a bicycle against traffic than it is to ride a bicycle with traffic. A wrong way bicyclist is coming from an unexpected direction at every intersection and adds his/her speed to the other party's speed in the head-on crash that s/he risks. For a bicyclist, being rear-ended is much less common than crashing in an intersection. I don't ride on the wrong side where there are street intersections, only in the country where everyone is doing 55-65mph. At those speeds it is irrelevant whether the speed is additive or not, especially if you go under the car. Even when I am driving one of my cars or motorcycles there are plenty of really bad drivers out there, accidents waiting to happen. Bill Baka -- Using M2, Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/m2/ |
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Bicyclists going wrong way and other crimes
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#26
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Bicyclists going wrong way and other crimes
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#27
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Bicyclists going wrong way and other crimes
Bill Baka wrote:
On Fri, 30 Jul 2004 03:06:54 GMT, AustinMN wrote: R15757 blurted out without thinking: Luigi de Guzman wrote in part: I cannot overstate the cross-traffic hazard; a car wishing to turn right on to the roadway isn't looking for a bicycle coming at him from the wrong side on a sidepath, moving at 15-25 mph. He looks left to check for oncoming traffic, sees none, and drives out-- Into you. Only if you're stupid enough to actually ride in front of a car with a driver who is looking the other direction and who is obviously preparing to pull out. So, you never ride in front of a stopped car about to turn right? Because this is exactly what every driver is doing. They are looking for relevant traffic, which, in a right-turn, is coming from the left. The only reason to look right is to check for pedestrians, and that only requires looking five feet down the road. Austin When that happens I either slow way down and signal the driver to go ahead or drive behind him if it is clear. As I mentioned I will get off the bike if the situation warrants it. I am not a speed freak who has to do 25mph ALL the time. By myself and with the occasional tailwind I have exceeded the 25mph limit sometimes but do not make it a habit. I learned that even with one of my motorcycles you are still invisible to most auto drivers and bikes are no different. Bill Baka You are missing an important detail. If you stop 10 feet (3 meters) short of the intersection, a significant percentage of right-turning drivers will still hit you. You do not have to be in front of them, you just need to be where they are neither expecting you nor looking for you. A classic situation where a wrong-way driver is in danger no matter what he does to compensate. Austin |
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Bicyclists going wrong way and other crimes
R15757 wrote:
Frank Krygowski wrote: c) ride according to the rules of the road, so people can actually give you right of way, anticipate your moves, see you where you're expected to be, etc. Agreed that (c) is best, but... Riding according to the rules of the road means that people will give me the right of way and see me? What planet are you on? Riding contrary to the flow of traffic GUARANTEES that people will not see you nor will they give you right of way (because they, um, won't see you). Get this, please: The single biggest reason for traffic law is to make the behavior of other traffic predictable. As soon as you decide to ignore the law, you become unpredictable, and therefore by definition, dangerous. I know you won't listen, but you are a hazard to everyone, not just yourself. Austin |
#29
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Bicyclists going wrong way and other crimes
Bill Baka wrote:
On Thu, 29 Jul 2004 23:56:24 -0400, Frank Krygowski Yeah, C) would be the logical choice but I have been hit from behind by a teenager in a lowered truck. I was already on the farthest right side of the road, crossing some rr tracks and he had no oncoming traffic and could have moved into the other lane but didn't bother. His outside rear view mirror smacked my elbow and gave me a sizable welt, but his mirror was knocked loose and dangling. I was riding to the letter of the law and it didn't prevent me from getting hit. The insult was when I tried to file a police report and they totally blew me off. I guess if I had called 911 for an ambulance they might have made something out of it. Bill Baka So every time a law-abiding person is involved in a traffic accident, it proves that the law is useless and we should all ignore it? Austin |
#30
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Bicyclists going wrong way and other crimes
Bill Baka wrote:
The road where I have to go wrong way has only 3 driveways in 3 miles, so I know where to slow down and pay attention. I cruise at about 16mph but slow down to about 5 when passing driveways. There are no crossroads to worry about, being very rural. Another part of the problem is that if I do go on the right side in the afternoon the sun is setting directly in front of me so someone might not see me due to the glare. I like to be seen and hence avoided. Let's do a little math. Assuming traffic on this road is posted at 40 MPH, which, for most of the US, means traffic is going 50-55 MPH. Traffic is approaching you (because you are traveling 16 MPH) at a closing speed of 71 MPH. If there's no place for you to go, but you and the oncoming traffic have to come to a full stop (from 71 MPH) to avoid a collision. But traveling in the correct direction, the closing speed is only 39 MPH. In the event that there is no place to go, approaching traffic only has to slow by 39 MPH to avoid a collision, and they will have about twice as long to do it. Even in this situation, where there are no side streets, you are in more danger travelling the wrong way. I am extrememly cautious when that is a possibility, and sometimes just get off the bike and act like a pedestrian in a crosswalk. It doesn't hurt my pride that I have to walk the bike a few feet once in a while. Although there are intersections where I do this. There are local traffic lights with multiple turn lanes where the speed limit on the main street is 65 MPH. No, I am not going to take the lane, I am going to pull to the right, push the button, and walk across. You can do it from the correct side of the road. BTW, I don't feel in any significant danger (nor have I ever had an incident) even though, with a speed limit of 65MPH, there are vehicles approaching me from behind at 80 MPH. Several squealing-brake confrontations converted me from a bikepath-dweller to a road user. I have had no such trouble at intersections since I started following the law. This is California where motor vehicles are king and bicycles are viewed as a nuisance by most of the motorists. I wish they would put in bike paths but with the budget this year that just isn't going to happen. Bike paths have been shown (in most cases) to be more dangerous than the road. Bike lanes help when located and used appropriately, but bike paths in the US have a horrible safety record. I avoid traffic like the plague, but I have to endure about 30 miles each way to get to my gravel and dirt playground where there is not only no traffic but no people, and no Cell phone signal. I live in Northern California 40 miles north of Sacramento and have to ride around Beale Air Force Base to get to the fun stuff. Putting the bike in one of my cars would just be cheating. Try following John Allen's advice, just once. His book has been adopted by several states as their "bicycle operator's manual". Oh, and it just happens to be the law. http://www.bikexprt.com/streetsmarts/usa/index.htm Austin |
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