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THE LOGIC OF TRIKES an outsider's viewpoint by Andre Jute
"Andre Jute" wrote in message
... It's not. My first sketch design was 5ft/1520mm wide. I described in a reply to Trevor how dangerous that would be on my favourite lanes -- too wide. I'd be in the ditch in the sowing, silage and harvest seasons more often than I'd be on the road. Tilting is one way of making a utility bike which is also narrow enough to be useful perform acceptably. The comedian Jute doesn't realise that many people have been doing more than just bull**** about designing trikes, but actually making them and evolving their designs. One notable thing is that tracks have been getting narrower, not wider - the wide ones are still there, but people are offering narrower ones for increased convenience. If he'd ever ridden one of these beasts, he'd also know that his tilting theory is gibberish - the trikes corner brilliantly as is - sharp, idiot-proof handling. |
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#42
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THE LOGIC OF TRIKES an outsider's viewpoint by Andre Jute
On Jun 4, 9:12 pm, someone wrote:
snip On your figure 8, tilt the payload, represented by the central upright. The wheels tilt, pulled by the links. Reset to level. Tilt the payload, represented the other way The wheels tilt, pulled by the links. That's it, a tilting suspension. All the rest is detail and compromise to make it work in the real world. How do you locate the angle of tilt? And where does the energy come frome to lift the rider back up? Same place it comes from on your bicycle, steering. Pull the steering a little harder than the current degree of tilt can counter and the centrifugal force of the turn overcomes the centripetal force of the tilt thereby righting the vehicle. This assumes the front wheels are not at their limit of adhesion, but if you are riding that hard then you're a twitch away from a crash anyway. I have built trikes like this, except with a brake that held the vehicle upright at low speeds until the vehicle was going fast enough to balance and to allow loading cargo while parked. The vehicle turned out to be impractical but not because it was a tilting trike. |
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THE LOGIC OF TRIKES an outsider's viewpoint by Andre Jute
On Jun 5, 7:46*pm, Opus wrote:
On Jun 4, 9:12 pm, someone wrote: snip On your figure 8, tilt the payload, represented by the central upright. The wheels tilt, pulled by the links. Reset to level. Tilt the payload, represented the other way The wheels tilt, pulled by the links. That's it, a tilting suspension. All the rest is detail and compromise to make it work in the real world. How do you locate the angle of tilt? *And where does the energy come frome to lift the rider back up? Same place it comes from on your bicycle, steering. Pull the steering a little harder than the current degree of tilt can counter and the centrifugal force of the turn overcomes the centripetal force of the tilt thereby righting the vehicle. This assumes the front wheels are not at their limit of adhesion, but if you are riding that hard then you're a twitch away from a crash anyway. I have built trikes like this, except with a brake that held the vehicle upright at low speeds until the vehicle was going fast enough to balance and to allow loading cargo while parked. The vehicle turned out to be impractical but not because it was a tilting trike. Why was the trike impractical? Did you find the tilting to be an advantage for any purpose? Andre Jute I'm not a know-all. I don't need to be. I know who to ask. |
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THE LOGIC OF TRIKES an outsider's viewpoint by Andre Jute
"Bernhard Agthe" wrote in message ... Hi, Edward Dolan wrote: Andre Jute is a crackpot. Can't you tell the type when you see it? He only ... When I read his posts I see a lot of myself in them (at least myself when I try to be self-critical). I do know that I've eaten wisdom by the spoonful and that reality always warps to fit my view of it ;-) Oh, actually, all people must bend to my opinion ;-) So what I write is always well-thought-through and anybody who contradicts me is a "crackpot" ;-) It's just, it doesn't work that way - and I find that very hard to accept. So I do try to allow for other people's opinion, even if it contradicts mine. It's just very hard for me to put that in words, so I may seem "militant" even if I don't mean to be. If you get my meaning... Andre Jute's thinking and theories are crackpot. I used to work on a psychiatric ward when I was in the Navy, so I recognize his type when I encounter it, however briefly. Andre Jute has all the coherency of the certifiably insane and he should be in a lunatic asylum. His dumb ass is not even worth kicking. Actually, I also see the same tendency in you, it's just you voice it differently, so that it's much easier to accept your style than Andre's - you just exaggerate while Andre doesn't. You often are funny, while Andre stays earnest - and thus seems much more explicit than you do... Again, if you get my meaning... But I am not serious and he is. That makes all the difference. And most people here are old enough (and have a well-enough position in life) to just express their opinion as it is, while I still have to accept other people's ;-) In some years maybe I'll sound like one of you? And get bashed by the other one ;-) Live and let live ;-) Yes, Usenet was invented to drive all of us stark raving mad. If you aren't laughing at the insanity of it, then you have missed the essence of it. Regards, Ed Dolan the Great - Minnesota aka Saint Edward the Great - Order of the Perpetual Sorrows - Minnesota |
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THE LOGIC OF TRIKES an outsider's viewpoint by Andre Jute
"Andre Jute" wrote in message ... [...] I'm not a know-all. I don't need to be. I know who to ask. Ask your psychiatrist if you should be running free on the streets. Are you taking your meds? It was a colossal mistake when the state got out of the business of housing lunatics like you in insane asylums. Regards, Ed Dolan the Great - Minnesota aka Saint Edward the Great - Order of the Perpetual Sorrows - Minnesota |
#46
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THE LOGIC OF TRIKES an outsider's viewpoint by Andre Jute
On 5 June, 19:46, Opus wrote:
That's it, a tilting suspension. All the rest is detail and compromise to make it work in the real world. How do you locate the angle of tilt? *And where does the energy come frome to lift the rider back up? Same place it comes from on your bicycle, steering. Pull the steering a little harder than the current degree of tilt can counter and the centrifugal force of the turn overcomes the centripetal force of the tilt thereby righting the vehicle. This assumes the front wheels are not at their limit of adhesion, but if you are riding that hard then you're a twitch away from a crash anyway. I have built trikes like this, except with a brake that held the vehicle upright at low speeds until the vehicle was going fast enough to balance and to allow loading cargo while parked. The vehicle turned out to be impractical but not because it was a tilting trike. This topic has continued to run because of the desire to go as fast on a trike as a bicycle if not perhaps a wee bit quicker. The limitation on speed of a human powered vehicle is primarily in the bends. To get round the bends quicker makes all riding quicker. I certainly dont like the idea I should go a little slower so that I can right myself by reducing my turn radius. I am accustomed to being able to ride bicycle and drive motor car to the limits of adhesion. Once the feeling of cornering response near the limit is learnt it is difficult to ignore its benefits. Your righting technique prevents the learning of the vehicle response at the limit point. |
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THE LOGIC OF TRIKES an outsider's viewpoint by Andre Jute
On Jun 5, 8:28 pm, Andre Jute wrote:
snip Why was the trike impractical? Did you find the tilting to be an advantage for any purpose? Andre Jute I'm not a know-all. I don't need to be. I know who to ask. The main reason the trike was impractical was there was no place to use for cargo storage or way to hang panniers on it. As for the tilting it allowed me to use normal bike hubs without inducing side loadings and also allowed a narrower track that let the vehicle go through places almost as well as a single track vehicle, but by locking the tilt brake I eliminated the danger of falling over. In retrospect I could have eliminated the complexity of the tilt brake by using stops to prevent the vehicle from falling over and gotten 90% of the benefit of the layout with 50% of the complexity. |
#48
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THE LOGIC OF TRIKES an outsider's viewpoint by Andre Jute
On Jun 5, 10:28 pm, someone wrote:
snip This topic has continued to run because of the desire to go as fast on a trike as a bicycle if not perhaps a wee bit quicker. The limitation on speed of a human powered vehicle is primarily in the bends. To get round the bends quicker makes all riding quicker. I certainly dont like the idea I should go a little slower so that I can right myself by reducing my turn radius. I am accustomed to being able to ride bicycle and drive motor car to the limits of adhesion. Once the feeling of cornering response near the limit is learnt it is difficult to ignore its benefits. Your righting technique prevents the learning of the vehicle response at the limit point. I know the vehicle response at the limits in this situation, front end washout followed by a painful slide into whatever is beyond the edge of the pavement. The advantage of the tilting tadpole was that the vehicle could be kept upright (more or less) after the front end traction was lost by the use of the tilting brake, at the expense of adding some side loads to the front wheels and some complexity to the controls and construction. |
#49
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THE LOGIC OF TRIKES an outsider's viewpoint by Andre Jute
On Jun 6, 5:38*pm, Opus wrote:
On Jun 5, 8:28 pm, Andre Jute wrote: snip Why was the trike impractical? Did you find the tilting to be an advantage for any purpose? Andre Jute I'm not a know-all. I don't need to be. I know who to ask. The main reason the trike was impractical was there was no place to use for cargo storage or way to hang panniers on it. As for the tilting it allowed me to use normal bike hubs without inducing side loadings and also allowed a narrower track that let the vehicle go through places almost as well as a single track vehicle, but by locking the tilt brake I eliminated the danger of falling over. In retrospect I could have eliminated the complexity of the tilt brake by using stops to prevent the vehicle from falling over and gotten 90% of the benefit of the layout with 50% of the complexity. I had already planned angle-limiting by rubber bump-stops but was wondering about a lockable disc to hold the thing upright at rest. Was you tadpole the usual height and just narrower or did you sit higher as well? My design sketch started putting on width and then started leaning, so to speak, because i want to sit comfortably upright at office chair height (say 15in off the ground). It might be that the only place to use a really speedy tadpole is not the public road but sand-sailing on a beach or in a desert in the wide open spaces of North Africa or North America, as Bernhard suggested... Andre Jute Visit Jute on Bicycles at http://www.audio-talk.co.uk/fiultra/...20CYCLING.html |
#50
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THE LOGIC OF TRIKES an outsider's viewpoint by Andre Jute
On 6 June, 18:21, Andre Jute wrote:
On Jun 6, 5:38*pm, Opus wrote: On Jun 5, 8:28 pm, Andre Jute wrote: snip Why was the trike impractical? Did you find the tilting to be an advantage for any purpose? Andre Jute I'm not a know-all. I don't need to be. I know who to ask. The main reason the trike was impractical was there was no place to use for cargo storage or way to hang panniers on it. As for the tilting it allowed me to use normal bike hubs without inducing side loadings and also allowed a narrower track that let the vehicle go through places almost as well as a single track vehicle, but by locking the tilt brake I eliminated the danger of falling over. In retrospect I could have eliminated the complexity of the tilt brake by using stops to prevent the vehicle from falling over and gotten 90% of the benefit of the layout with 50% of the complexity. I had already planned angle-limiting by rubber bump-stops but was wondering about a lockable disc to hold the thing upright at rest. Was you tadpole the usual height and just narrower or did you sit higher as well? My design sketch started putting on width and then started leaning, so to speak, because i want to sit comfortably upright at office chair height (say 15in off the ground). It might be that the only place to use a really speedy tadpole is not the public road but sand-sailing on a beach or in a desert in the wide open spaces of North Africa or North America, as Bernhard suggested... Er, yes, come to think of it, its been done. Land racing yachts. Some of these are leaning trikes, but very low as well. |
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