Steel no longer real?

- Phil W Lee / Fri, 01 Jan 2016 21:27:36 +0100


Oops, you are right, I looked it up.
Al suddenly shifts from solid to fluid without optical warning.

And it conducts heat away so readily that keeping the hot spot
localised is more difficult.

Yes.


The machines used for making bike-parts from Al alloy
are computer controlled MIG ones that work in two steps --
first drop some material to the welding point,
then do the real welding. The worker or robot arm only has
to 'point and shoot'. That's what I meant: with such equipment,
you don't need a skilled craftsman at the machine any more.

No, just one to set it up.

No, I don't mean welding robots, but smart, small and quite
cheap machines that are in use at Chinese garage workshops.

I'll try to find the link again.


jk


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- Phil W Lee / Fri, 01 Jan 2016 21:11:13 +0100



[originally, steel frames were not welded but soldered
using brass fitting ... remember those?]

These bikes did cost a little more than today,
compared to average income level.

Quite a lot more, I reckon. But then they lasted long enough to be
worth it.

Yes, and were abandoned uncheerfully.

What annoys me is that machine-built frames which are
cheap but not bad in principle have such crappy components
that they go to the bin in a few months.

It's the way business runs these days - they have to be disposable, to
keep a market going for replacements.

Replaced by a complete new bike normally.

Recently, at a big shop, a customer wanted to have a broken
spoke replaced for an expensive wheel (straight-pull spokes
etc) - they refused to repair it.


Recently, I 'saved a DIY-market crap bike from the bin
by adjusting everything and changing a few minor parts
for a friend. He isn't a sporty mile-eater, and the bike
will serve him for quite some time.
I'll never understand this trash culture.

I understand it, but don't agree with it.
And I, like you, do my best to undermine it by fixing up those same
types of bike.

Well, I saved this bike from the bin in order to have something
that rolls without risk to be stolen.

I think, for commuting 2-3 miles these ones are ok.


I love modern stuff, too. No problem.

I agree with you on all that except that I only love the GOOD modern
stuff

Sure. But still, when womeone wants to thrash something that only
needs 1/2 hour of adjusting, I can't watch this. Still ok for a
shopping bike, and for sure, I won't sell it for $ 200.



jk



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- John B. / Sat, 02 Jan 2016 00:22:20 +0100

I bought a "mountain" bike in Singapore, probably 20 years ago.
Aluminum frame and, as you say, cheap fittings. I had it on the boat
for, probably, ten years or so and when I finally sold the boat the
bike was almost unrideable. Rather then just throw it away I started
stripping the unusable stuff off and finally ended up with only the
frame and was going to throw that away until I saw a very up-market
MTB in the marina with exactly the same frame :-)

The Marina series is the one that ended GF's reputation.

I ended up making a solid fork for my frame and now have an aluminum
frame utility bike :-)

Solid fork instead of bad suspension one is always good.


And recently, I 'shot' a bike-frame at flea market.
A 1998 Gary Fisher Ziggurat.
Welded aluminium, but perfectly done in any detail.
And not really bargain-priced when new.

I hate to tell you but that looks exactly like the frame that I
salvaged from my Singapore bike :-) Which I purchased new for S$ 100,
about 60 US dollars in those days.

Not exactly. I lack the exact term -- the piece that connects
middle bearing with the tubes to the rear hub, for example,
is a separate part, obviously full-material Al cast, done
in a very precise way. Of course, raw design was copied
over and over again. This one originally cost a lot.


Some time ago, I was at a place at east Adria (Jadran).
The neighbor guy took us with his motor boat (nut-shell),
and it hat a motor on-board made in 1910. Except of
cables and spark-plugs everything was original ...
I hope he will keep it in honour.
If not, I'll feed him to the sharks.

You have no idea how much better a modern outboard motor is :-)

I do. I loved how he cherished this museum engine.
The rest of the story I didn't really love.
I was there on a human aid transport during war,
and was stuck on the island anyway.
Sound of artillery day and night, mines everywhere.
No chance to drive home without being killed.
This was my most crazy forced holiday ever.

And I was silly enough to continue this job for two more
years every month or so.
Not silly on the other hand, regarding that besides of
potatoes and cans we brought a lot of hope down there.
I think it was right. Risky, but right.


jk



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- John B. / Sat, 02 Jan 2016 00:22:20 +0100


See http://www.youtube.com/embed/8_lfxPI5ObM?rel=0

Amazing.

Would be ok for building bikes, but cars ???


No, in fact, I'm curious on test-driving a Tesla,
seems to be a very interesting thing.



jk



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- John B. / Sat, 02 Jan 2016 00:22:20 +0100


It might also be of interest to know that many silver brazing fillers
contain Cadmium which lowers the melting point and improves fluidity,
but which also produce cadmium oxide fumes when heated above 608
degrees (F), or 320 (C). Cadmium fumes are considered poisonous and
while they have been in use for many years should be treated with
respect.

Same with red lead or zinc chromate paint.
Perfect anti-rust, but poisonous.

A bit different though. You can paint red-lead or zinc chromate with a
brush perfectly safely but all you have to do is melt cadmium silver
solder to release fumes.

You can handle plutonium without safety precautions, as well.

Any unless you melt the silver solder it isn't any use, at all :-)

I won't try.

Living next to a car-crowded street gives me enough poison
so I can consider myself as being a modern person.


jk



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no sig

Per John B.:
See http://www.youtube.com/embed/8_lfxPI5ObM?rel=0

My preconception was a bunch of guys with tattoos and ponytails putting
stuff together in a rented warehouse....

I had no idea that Tesla was such a large, sophisticated manufacturing
operation.

Wikipedia says 6,000 employees and over 52,000 cars produced in 2015.

Here in the Philadelphia PA - USA - area, I have never recognized a
Tesla on the road. Who is buying these things?
--
Pete Cresswell

On 1/5/2016 7:36 AM, (PeteCresswell) wrote:
Per John B.:
See http://www.youtube.com/embed/8_lfxPI5ObM?rel=0

My preconception was a bunch of guys with tattoos and ponytails putting
stuff together in a rented warehouse....

I had no idea that Tesla was such a large, sophisticated manufacturing
operation.

Wikipedia says 6,000 employees and over 52,000 cars produced in 2015.

Here in the Philadelphia PA - USA - area, I have never recognized a
Tesla on the road. Who is buying these things?

I could probably count 50 of them in one day if I stood at an
intersection three blocks from my house where all the traffic from
Saratoga heads past Apple headquarters into the heart of Silicon Valley.
I know five people that own Teslas, and only two of them are
exceptionally wealthy. They all live in rather ordinary tract homes or
townhouses. One is an engineer for Tesla but he bought a Tesla before he
worked there.

A Tesla is expensive but it is not appreciably more expensive than other
high-end luxury cars. A Lexus LS starts at over $70K. A Mercedes S class
starts at over $95K. Mass production of the Tesla began when gasoline
prices were very high and when many employers in this area provided
charging stations for electric cars at no cost. A lot of people have
solar panels in this area plus there are special electric rates for
electric car charging (requires a separate meter to be worthwhile).

But the real reason for Teslas, Leafs, and other electric and plug-in
hybrids is the sticker that lets you use the HOV lane with only one
person. We have a Prius Plug-In. I don't like it but it's my wife's car
and the carpool lane sticker is very useful for her. She can just about
get back and forth to work on electric only (the electric range is just
12-16 miles). The negatives are a) no spare tire because that space is
occupied by the batteries for the electric-only mode, b) terrible rear
visibility (though this is on all Priuses, not just the Plug-In), c)
road noise is very high, especially compared to one of our Camrys, but
again that's a general Prius issue unrelated to the Plug-In part of it.

Tesla took over the NUUMI factory after GM and Toyota pulled out of
Fremont. So they were able to get started manufacturing pretty quickly
since they already had a modern automobile manufacturing plant to start
with.

The engineering is pretty awesome. They also sell power trains to other
companies, though the deal with Toyota is over. Their expertise in
batteries, charging algorithms, and electric motors would take a long
time for other companies to duplicate.

Per sms:

I could probably count 50 of them in one day if I stood at an
intersection three blocks from my house where all the traffic from
Saratoga heads past Apple headquarters into the heart of Silicon Valley.
I know five people that own Teslas, and only two of them are
exceptionally wealthy.

Sounds like my Tesla-recognition skills are deficient then....
--
Pete Cresswell

On Tue, 05 Jan 2016 10:36:51 -0500, "(PeteCresswell)"
wrote:

Per John B.:
See http://www.youtube.com/embed/8_lfxPI5ObM?rel=0

My preconception was a bunch of guys with tattoos and ponytails putting
stuff together in a rented warehouse....

I had no idea that Tesla was such a large, sophisticated manufacturing
operation.

Wikipedia says 6,000 employees and over 52,000 cars produced in 2015.

Here in the Philadelphia PA - USA - area, I have never recognized a
Tesla on the road. Who is buying these things?

According the Web the 2016 Model S Tesla sells for 75 - 105,000 green
back dollars while the Model X is 80 - 132,000.
--
cheers,

John B.

"(PeteCresswell)" wrote:
:Per John B.:
:See http://www.youtube.com/embed/8_lfxPI5ObM?rel=0

:My preconception was a bunch of guys with tattoos and ponytails putting
:stuff together in a rented warehouse....

:I had no idea that Tesla was such a large, sophisticated manufacturing
peration.

:Wikipedia says 6,000 employees and over 52,000 cars produced in 2015.

:Here in the Philadelphia PA - USA - area, I have never recognized a
:Tesla on the road. Who is buying these things?

I see a lot of them around Chicago. Saw a guy get right hoked by one,
right in front of me. Moron passed both of us, and turned right right
in front of the guy in front of me. I saw the car (didn't hear it)
and thought it was going to turn, so started to brake. Barely avoided
hitting the other bike. I guess the driver as well insured, because I
never heard from the other cyclist.

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