Sharp Cornering Bike?

The latest issue of Bicycling Magazine (Sept. 2005) has a review of a
Pinarello F4:13 and, among many other things, they comment that "it's also
one of the sharpest-cornering bikes we've ever ridden - your could
practically rub your hip on the road and not worry about blowing a turn."
That got me to wondering if, by design, one bike can really corner better
than another and, if so, why? If cheap entry level bikes are excluded and
the comparison is limited to bikes with high quality aluminum, carbon or Ti
frames and a reasonably good set of wheels why would one bike be able to
corner better than another? Or, would the major factor simply be tire
compound?
Chuck

C Wright wrote:
The latest issue of Bicycling Magazine (Sept. 2005) has a review of a
Pinarello F4:13 and, among many other things, they comment that "it's also
one of the sharpest-cornering bikes we've ever ridden - your could
practically rub your hip on the road and not worry about blowing a turn."
That got me to wondering if, by design, one bike can really corner better
than another and, if so, why? If cheap entry level bikes are excluded and
the comparison is limited to bikes with high quality aluminum, carbon or Ti
frames and a reasonably good set of wheels why would one bike be able to
corner better than another? Or, would the major factor simply be tire
compound?
Chuck


Pure, anudulterated parroting of marketing BS.

The major factor is fear.


Robin Hubert

"C Wright" wrote in message
. ..
The latest issue of Bicycling Magazine (Sept. 2005) has a review of a
Pinarello F4:13 and, among many other things, they comment that "it's also
one of the sharpest-cornering bikes we've ever ridden - your could
practically rub your hip on the road and not worry about blowing a turn."
That got me to wondering if, by design, one bike can really corner better
than another and, if so, why? If cheap entry level bikes are excluded and
the comparison is limited to bikes with high quality aluminum, carbon or
Ti
frames and a reasonably good set of wheels why would one bike be able to
corner better than another? Or, would the major factor simply be tire
compound?
Chuck



I hear red bikes corner the fastest .

On Sat, 06 Aug 2005 14:47:00 GMT, C Wright
wrote:

The latest issue of Bicycling Magazine (Sept. 2005) has a review of a
Pinarello F4:13 and, among many other things, they comment that "it's also
one of the sharpest-cornering bikes we've ever ridden - your could
practically rub your hip on the road and not worry about blowing a turn."
That got me to wondering if, by design, one bike can really corner better
than another and, if so, why? If cheap entry level bikes are excluded and
the comparison is limited to bikes with high quality aluminum, carbon or Ti
frames and a reasonably good set of wheels why would one bike be able to
corner better than another? Or, would the major factor simply be tire
compound?

Tire compound, road surface condition and material, presence of
debris, and rider foolhardiness (aka desperation, sometimes called
bravado or bravery) are the principal factors that determine cornering
speed. The rest is just hype. (Magazines are often driven by hype.)

--
Typoes are a feature, not a bug.
Some gardening required to reply via email.
Words processed in a facility that contains nuts.

"Werehatrack" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 06 Aug 2005 14:47:00 GMT, C Wright
wrote:

The latest issue of Bicycling Magazine (Sept. 2005) has a review of a
Pinarello F4:13 and, among many other things, they comment that "it's also
one of the sharpest-cornering bikes we've ever ridden - your could
practically rub your hip on the road and not worry about blowing a turn."
That got me to wondering if, by design, one bike can really corner better
than another and, if so, why? If cheap entry level bikes are excluded and
the comparison is limited to bikes with high quality aluminum, carbon or
Ti
frames and a reasonably good set of wheels why would one bike be able to
corner better than another? Or, would the major factor simply be tire
compound?

Tire compound, road surface condition and material, presence of
debris, and rider foolhardiness (aka desperation, sometimes called
bravado or bravery) are the principal factors that determine cornering
speed. The rest is just hype. (Magazines are often driven by hype.)

--

I interpret the OP's question as having more to do with quickness of
steering, rather than the sheer speed with which a corner can be taken. I
know many people make it a point to debunk myths on here, but there are
definitely bikes with quicker handling that can take a corner with
razor-like precision at the slightest nudge. This is not hype.

By the way, I wouldn't relegate steel frames to entry-level bikes as the OP
did!
Peter

"Robin Hubert" wrote in message
nk.net...
C Wright wrote:
The latest issue of Bicycling Magazine (Sept. 2005) has a review of a
Pinarello F4:13 and, among many other things, they comment that "it's
also
one of the sharpest-cornering bikes we've ever ridden - your could
practically rub your hip on the road and not worry about blowing a turn."
That got me to wondering if, by design, one bike can really corner better
than another and, if so, why? If cheap entry level bikes are excluded
and
the comparison is limited to bikes with high quality aluminum, carbon or
Ti
frames and a reasonably good set of wheels why would one bike be able to
corner better than another? Or, would the major factor simply be tire
compound?
Chuck


Pure, anudulterated parroting of marketing BS.

The major factor is fear.


Robin Hubert

Sure, frame geometry and tire compound probably has nothing to do with it.

On Sat, 06 Aug 2005 14:47:00 GMT, C Wright
wrote:

The latest issue of Bicycling Magazine (Sept. 2005) has a review of a
Pinarello F4:13 and, among many other things, they comment that "it's also
one of the sharpest-cornering bikes we've ever ridden - your could
practically rub your hip on the road and not worry about blowing a turn."
That got me to wondering if, by design, one bike can really corner better
than another and, if so, why? If cheap entry level bikes are excluded and
the comparison is limited to bikes with high quality aluminum, carbon or Ti
frames and a reasonably good set of wheels why would one bike be able to
corner better than another? Or, would the major factor simply be tire
compound?
Chuck

Dear Chuck,

Frame geometry can affect handling.

Trials bikes are designed for quick handling at low-speed,
so they don't do well at high speed down a ski-run in
summer.

Similarly, Hans Rey doesn't use a longer wheelbase touring
bicycle to leap on and off picnic tables and cavort among
boulders.

There's not a lot of difference in the geometry seen in
bicycles used for the same kind of racing.

In any case, cornering is rarely emphasized in paved bicycle
races because the engine tends to be far more important.

There just isn't the fiddling with front-end geometry,
suspension, and tire compounds that you see in motorcycle
racing.

Bicyclists don't like to change their front ends, suspension
is absent from road bicycles, frame weight distribution
scarcely matters, and the bicycle engines are usually
reluctant to go out and keep testing different tire
compounds in the same corners, since cornering rarely makes
much difference in pavement races.

A longer wheelbase might offer a tiny frame advantage for
cornering in that more distance between the front and rear
contact patches reduces the wobble-jiggle-waver when one of
them hits a bump.

Tire compounds matter--there are stickier tires, but they
tend to wear faster.

So does tire size--a wider tire at a lower pressure spreads
the contact patch over a larger area and is therefore less
likely to bump and slip on a tiny irregularity. (Of course,
the engines complain that wide tires slow them down because
of increased wind drag and therefore prefer narrow tires.)

And tire inflation is about as close as pavement bicycles
get to suspension.

It's even claimed that the tubulars preferred by
professional racers corner better than clinchers because
tubulars have a rounder profile and therefore offer a
smoother transition from upright to leaning over.

But for ordinary riding, most road bicycles equipped with
the same tires corner according to the rider's ability
because they're pretty much the same. Any tiny frame
differences are likely to yield only tiny advantages, not
the kind of striking improvements claimed by the magazine.
(I'd be astonished if the magazine recorded and compared any
actual times for different bikes through a twisty standard
downhill course--those guys aren't Consumer Reports.)

Of course, a nice new bicycle will probably feel better,
particularly if you happen to be having a good day and
everyone else is telling you how great it feels. Put on a
pair of ear-muffs to get rid of the normal noise, and you'll
swear that your bike rides much more smoothly.

Carl Fogel

On Sat, 06 Aug 2005 16:08:36 GMT, Werehatrack
wrote:



Tire compound, road surface condition and material, presence of
debris, and rider foolhardiness (aka desperation, sometimes called
bravado or bravery) are the principal factors that determine cornering
speed.

Also perhaps weight distribution.

JT

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John Forrest Tomlinson wrote:
On Sat, 06 Aug 2005 16:08:36 GMT, Werehatrack
wrote:



Tire compound, road surface condition and material, presence of
debris, and rider foolhardiness (aka desperation, sometimes called
bravado or bravery) are the principal factors that determine cornering
speed.


Also perhaps weight distribution.

JT

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Visit http://www.jt10000.com
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More importantly, I think, since so much of the available componentry is
so close in performance, is the ability of the rider to perceive and
judge, and to have the nerve to follow his instincts.


Robin Hubert

In article
,
"Pete" wrote:

"Werehatrack" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 06 Aug 2005 14:47:00 GMT, C Wright
wrote:

The latest issue of Bicycling Magazine (Sept. 2005) has a review of a
Pinarello F4:13 and, among many other things, they comment that "it's also
one of the sharpest-cornering bikes we've ever ridden - your could
practically rub your hip on the road and not worry about blowing a turn."
That got me to wondering if, by design, one bike can really corner better
than another and, if so, why? If cheap entry level bikes are excluded and
the comparison is limited to bikes with high quality aluminum, carbon or
Ti
frames and a reasonably good set of wheels why would one bike be able to
corner better than another? Or, would the major factor simply be tire
compound?

Tire compound, road surface condition and material, presence of
debris, and rider foolhardiness (aka desperation, sometimes called
bravado or bravery) are the principal factors that determine cornering
speed. The rest is just hype. (Magazines are often driven by hype.)

--

I interpret the OP's question as having more to do with quickness of
steering, rather than the sheer speed with which a corner can be taken. I
know many people make it a point to debunk myths on here, but there are
definitely bikes with quicker handling that can take a corner with
razor-like precision at the slightest nudge. This is not hype.

By the way, I wouldn't relegate steel frames to entry-level bikes as the OP
did!

Didn't you get the memo? Yes, steel frames are heavy and
old technology. Nobody would attempt a performance frame
out of steel anymore, except some fashionable boutique
outfits like Waterford, and mossbacks such as Eisentraut,
Litton, or Sachs.

--
Michael Press