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#21
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BBB-41 Powerlock Bicycle Lock
On Tue, 05 Dec 2017 05:04:22 +0100, Emanuel Berg
wrote: John B. wrote: Given that many of the commercial "bicycle locks" can be rather easily cut with hand tools This cannot in reasonable time unless there is a hand tool and/or method I'm unfamiliar with. There is something with the plastic that prevents you from getting the power down to the wire. If you keep at it, you'll succeed eventually, of course, but no thief will do that out in the open to get a bike of this (monetary) value. Try a 4 inch angle grinder with a 1mm cut-off wheel. You can cut a cable about as fast as you can push the grinder. But I think that you last point is the important one. "A bike of this value". I live about 500 mtrs from a subway station and there are always a number of bicycles tied up to posts in the area. Very noticeable they are all old, dirty, grungy, things that no body would want. Some aren't even locked. I've yet to see a $3,000 carbon fiber racing bike parked there :-) I have always considered bicycle locking devices as something the prevent a casual thief from stealing the bicycle It prevents the everyday drunk/messed up kid from just rolling away with it. With this kind of lock, that can't happen and for the determined thief with tools etc there are many other bikes right nearby which will be much less work. -- Cheers, John B. |
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#22
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BBB-41 Powerlock Bicycle Lock
John B. wrote:
Given that many of the commercial "bicycle locks" can be rather easily cut with hand tools This cannot in reasonable time unless there is a hand tool and/or method I'm unfamiliar with. There is something with the plastic that prevents you from getting the power down to the wire. If you keep at it, you'll succeed eventually, of course, but no thief will do that out in the open to get a bike of this (monetary) value. Try a 4 inch angle grinder with a 1mm cut-off wheel. You can cut a cable about as fast as you can push the grinder. Aha, you guys include power tools in "hand tools". Well, I suppose the are. In that case yes, an angle grinder would do it but that scenario is completely unrealistic in the wild. But I think that you last point is the important one. "A bike of this value". I live about 500 mtrs from a subway station and there are always a number of bicycles tied up to posts in the area. Very noticeable they are all old, dirty, grungy, things that no body would want. Some aren't even locked. I've yet to see a $3,000 carbon fiber racing bike parked there :-) Yeah, well - for a person those bikes can be invaluable and for the reasonably handy guy they can be put it very good condition as well. But if you were to sell them you don't get much, especially not compared to their "quality of life" potential, it is a joke actually. A haircut with dying for an old lady is more expensive. So the professional thief don't bring tools to steal this kind of things, and the casual thief doesn't carry any tools on his way back from the bar friday night -- underground experts united http://user.it.uu.se/~embe8573 |
#23
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BBB-41 Powerlock Bicycle Lock
On Tue, 05 Dec 2017 07:05:57 +0100, Emanuel Berg
wrote: Aha, you guys include power tools in "hand tools". Well, I suppose the are. In that case yes, an angle grinder would do it but that scenario is completely unrealistic in the wild. Angle grinders used in bicycle thefts are quite common. Pick a video: https://www.google.com/search?q=youtube+angle+grinder+bicycle+lock -- Jeff Liebermann 150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558 |
#24
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BBB-41 Powerlock Bicycle Lock
Jeff Liebermann wrote:
Aha, you guys include power tools in "hand tools". Well, I suppose the are. In that case yes, an angle grinder would do it but that scenario is completely unrealistic in the wild. Angle grinders used in bicycle thefts are quite common. Maybe in you guys' countries where there is another bike culture and people ride really expensive bikes as a sport or lifestyle. Here there are *tons* of bikes everywhere, many 20-30 yo, and if you stole one and fixed and cleaned it really nice you could sell it online for ~1000 SEK. While I consider that price a joke (far too low) it is reality nonetheless. To bring an angle grinder, with power from a pickup, and then throw it back up, and proceed to the next bike... I just don't see anyone doing that as a profitable venture. Of course there are expensive bikes here as well but people keep them - well, at least I never see 'em anywhere in the racks or by the streets... 1000 SEK ~= $119 | £88 | €100 -- underground experts united http://user.it.uu.se/~embe8573 |
#25
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BBB-41 Powerlock Bicycle Lock
On Tue, 05 Dec 2017 07:05:57 +0100, Emanuel Berg
wrote: John B. wrote: Given that many of the commercial "bicycle locks" can be rather easily cut with hand tools This cannot in reasonable time unless there is a hand tool and/or method I'm unfamiliar with. There is something with the plastic that prevents you from getting the power down to the wire. If you keep at it, you'll succeed eventually, of course, but no thief will do that out in the open to get a bike of this (monetary) value. Try a 4 inch angle grinder with a 1mm cut-off wheel. You can cut a cable about as fast as you can push the grinder. Aha, you guys include power tools in "hand tools". Well, I suppose the are. In that case yes, an angle grinder would do it but that scenario is completely unrealistic in the wild. They make battery operated tools and a battery operated angle grinder cost $150 or less, if I'm not mistaken. Obviously it isn't practical to buy a $150 dollar tool to steal a $50 dollar bicycle but what about a Trek ALR 5, low end Trek aluminum frame road bike. Lists at $1,680. With an overhead of $150 that means what one might say is a $1,500 profit. But I think that you last point is the important one. "A bike of this value". I live about 500 mtrs from a subway station and there are always a number of bicycles tied up to posts in the area. Very noticeable they are all old, dirty, grungy, things that no body would want. Some aren't even locked. I've yet to see a $3,000 carbon fiber racing bike parked there :-) Yeah, well - for a person those bikes can be invaluable and for the reasonably handy guy they can be put it very good condition as well. But if you were to sell them you don't get much, especially not compared to their "quality of life" potential, it is a joke actually. A haircut with dying for an old lady is more expensive. So the professional thief don't bring tools to steal this kind of things, and the casual thief doesn't carry any tools on his way back from the bar friday night -- Cheers, John B. |
#26
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BBB-41 Powerlock Bicycle Lock
On Tue, 05 Dec 2017 08:54:42 +0100, Emanuel Berg
wrote: Jeff Liebermann wrote: Aha, you guys include power tools in "hand tools". Well, I suppose the are. In that case yes, an angle grinder would do it but that scenario is completely unrealistic in the wild. Angle grinders used in bicycle thefts are quite common. Maybe in you guys' countries where there is another bike culture and people ride really expensive bikes as a sport or lifestyle. Here there are *tons* of bikes everywhere, many 20-30 yo, and if you stole one and fixed and cleaned it really nice you could sell it online for ~1000 SEK. While I consider that price a joke (far too low) it is reality nonetheless. To bring an angle grinder, with power from a pickup, and then throw it back up, and proceed to the next bike... I just don't see anyone doing that as a profitable venture. Of course there are expensive bikes here as well but people keep them - well, at least I never see 'em anywhere in the racks or by the streets... 1000 SEK ~= $119 | £88 | €100 Well, economics certainly must play a part in the equation but I read that over 10,000 bikes were stolen in Stockholm last year. http://www.nordstjernan.com/news/sweden/5452/ -- Cheers, John B. |
#27
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BBB-41 Powerlock Bicycle Lock
John B. wrote:
Well, economics certainly must play a part in the equation but I read that over 10,000 bikes were stolen in Stockholm last year. Well, of course! Bikes get stolen all the time. I don't live in Stockholm but it happens here as well, for sure, every day. Now this is getting too confusing... Let's try to sort it out. Yes, it is possible to cut the 12 mm cable lock. No, with a "$50 bike" typically that won't happen. Yes, without a lock altogether the same bike will be stolen, or claimed by the street life rather, in but a few days time. -- underground experts united http://user.it.uu.se/~embe8573 |
#28
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BBB-41 Powerlock Bicycle Lock
On 12/4/2017 11:54 PM, Emanuel Berg wrote:
snip https://www.homedepot.com/p/Milwaukee-M18-18-Volt-Lithium-Ion-4-1-2-in-Cordless-Cut-Off-Grinder-Tool-Only-2680-20/202196580 Any bicycle thief worth their salt owns a battery powered angle grinder. |
#29
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BBB-41 Powerlock Bicycle Lock
On 12/4/2017 10:05 PM, Emanuel Berg wrote:
snip Aha, you guys include power tools in "hand tools". Well, I suppose the are. In that case yes, an angle grinder would do it but that scenario is completely unrealistic in the wild. The discerning bicycle thief owns a Bosch GWS 10.8-76 V-EC Professional Cordless 3" Angle Grinder. Not sold in the U.S. but readily purchased on eBay. https://www.ebay.com/itm/231954428094 |
#30
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BBB-41 Powerlock Bicycle Lock
On 12/4/2017 11:41 PM, John B. wrote:
On Mon, 04 Dec 2017 19:13:04 -0600, AMuzi wrote: On 12/4/2017 6:48 PM, John B. wrote: On Mon, 04 Dec 2017 15:31:49 -0600, AMuzi wrote: On 12/4/2017 3:10 PM, Emanuel Berg wrote: sms wrote: I was comparing a lock with the same diameter cable, name brand, this one with 5 keys instead of 3 keys. 5 keys? You US people sure loose a lot of keys But yes, it seems like a fair comparison. It would seem the BBB-41 is the unique identifier used internally as well when they refer to the product. How much do you pay for a 12 mm wire bike lock at AMuzi's, if it isn't a secret? It's just a retail $19.95 lock. 2-meter cable lock x 12mm is a commodity. Goodness! Do these locks have an actual 1/2" steel cable? (I had always taken that claim as advertising :-) technically 0.47 inches http://www.onguardlock.com/store/doberman-8031 (the 10mm model sells better) Out of curiosity (I'm too cheap to buy one :-) is that a 12mm steel cable? Or 12mm over the steel cable and the plastic casing? but then again: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oJ8FZnMYkyY solid hardened steel U-lock, 9 seconds. I use a 4 inch angle grinder a great deal in metal working and that guy doesn't seem to be working very hard. Using a 1mm cut-off wheel that U lock should be cut even quicker. actual security cam: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-dz0Za5-wOM But every time I see bicycle locks I remember a time I parked in front of a hardware store on a main street in Phuket, Thailand and inadvertently locked my keys in the pickup. I'm sort of peering in the window trying to figure out what to do and a well dressed Thai guy comes walking by. "What's the matter? Lock your keys in the car?" I tell him yes and he tells me to wait a minute, runs into the hardware shop, borrows a 18" flat steel ruler and comes back and pops the lock. I thank the guy profusely and we both go on about our business. With me speculating on how the Thai Guy got so skillful :-) A woman of my acquaintance with a chronic alcohol problem locked her keys in the car so often that I made a tool for her model car and got quite adept over a few years' time. In those pre-Inter Webs days that meant a walk[1] to the library to look at car manuals showing door and lock assembly. Not a difficult problem once you see the mechanism. [1]can't bring my bicycle into the library. -- Andrew Muzi www.yellowjersey.org/ Open every day since 1 April, 1971 |
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