Should Cyclists Pack Guns?

On Apr 26, 7:22 am, "DI" wrote:
Point a CO2 BB gun at someone and you are likely to get your butt shot off
with the real thing, and they would be justified in doing so. Those
things are one of the most dangerous things you could ever carry.

Agreed. The most dangerous thing you can do with a gun is pull it out
and aim it at someone without the intent of using it, usually as a
scare tactic. To pull a gun without the _ability_ to use it is just
plain stupid. If the other guy has a gun, he now has both the law and
his survival instincts on the side of shooting you before you shoot
him. If you're waving your gun around, and he's properly trained,
you'll likely never see his firearm - though you'll feel it even if
just for a moment. Also, his buddy you didn't notice or know about
may be watching the altercation with great amusement, until you pull
out a gun. Now he's going to protect his friend and himself, and
you're going to get shot.

I am a cyclist by passion and a motorist for practical purposes.
Still, I have had confrontations with cyclists while driving. If one
of those cyclists ever pulled a gun, I would be in immedieate survival
mode. My first action, before even trying to shoot them, would be to
get low in the truck to lessen the chances of a round finding its mark
(me) and run them over. If they pulled a pellet gun, they'd still be
dead and I'd still be in the clear legally.

I'm not saying that there is no case to carry a firearm, I'm just
saying it's not something to bluff. If you're going to draw a weapon,
plan on taking down your target. If you can't safely and surely drop
your mark with said weapon (likely the case if the mark is human and
the weapon a pellet gun), don't draw it.

On Apr 26, 7:04 am, David Steuber wrote:
And then what happened? Did they kick your ass, or did you ride on
away? If the former, then brandishing would certainly have dissuaded
anyone not running for a darwin award.

If riding away worked, that was likely the best option. Brandishing a
firearm when outnumbered will dissuade the Abercrombie punks, but will
get you shot if dealing with three legitimate thugs, or even three
armed rednecks with quick triggers and strong desires to stay alive.
I know a bit about the latter category. In this situation I'd have
tried for the ride away, and drawn if cornered. Remember, once you
pull it out the game changes, and you need to be ready to pull that
trigger.

On Apr 26, 6:37 am, David Steuber wrote:
writes:


Why are you so afraid? Why the paranoia??

It's not a question of paranoia. It's simply better to have a gun and
not need it than to need a gun and not have it.

Well, maybe not. IIRC, guns kept in the home for "protection" are
something like 40 times more likely to be used for killing a family
member than for defending against an intruder. That makes it not so
simple.


It would not bother me at all to haul around a three pound lump of
iron for forty years and never need to so much as show that I have
it. It would bother me to find myself in a situation where having
that three pound lump of iron could help me stay alive or hold onto my
property. I would be incensed if I did not have that three pound lump
of iron in that situation.

That justification might apply equally well to cycling in a kevlar
vest.

Sorry, but in my experience, and going by the data, the desire to
carry a gun is usually based on confusing life with movies. Real life
isn't much like an action flick.

In real life, the guy with the gun isn't a tough athlete who can whip
out his piece and blow away the bad guys driving toward him at high
speed. The guy with the gun is much more often a clumsy drunk who
gets aggressive toward his friends and family.

- Frank Krygowski

On Apr 26, 7:22 am, "DI" wrote:


Point a CO2 BB gun at someone and you are likely to get your butt shot off
with the real thing...

"Likely"?

Got data?

- Frank Krygowski

Tom Keats wrote:
In article ,
"Bill Sornson" writes:
Tom Keats wrote:
In article ,
writes:

Yeh, that one coulda used a Rabbi, I admit :-(

I think you mean a Mohel.

Or a chainsaw.

Multi-tool?

There's an ancient story, told only by word-of-mouth,
of a retiring aged mohel who'd saved up over the years,
all the byproducts of his profession.

He took them in to his local leatherworker, and asked him
to make something out of them -- sort of a retirement gift
to himself.

When the mohel returned to the shop a couple of weeks later,
the tanner proudly plunked the product of his enginuity &
artistry down on the counter.

"A wallet?!" exclaimed the mohel. "All these years, and
all I've got to show for it is a lousy wallet?"

The leatherworker then calmly explained: "Yeah, but
stroke it a little, and it turns into a suitcase."

Definitely forward-worthy. Thanks, Tom!

In article .com, wrote:

It's not a question of paranoia. It's simply better to have a gun and
not need it than to need a gun and not have it.

Well, maybe not. IIRC, guns kept in the home for "protection" are
something like 40 times more likely to be used for killing a family
member than for defending against an intruder. That makes it not so
simple.

If you believe the department of made up statistics and odds.

Sorry, but in my experience, and going by the data, the desire to
carry a gun is usually based on confusing life with movies. Real life
isn't much like an action flick.

I would simply prefer it to be legal to have the firearm such that law
abiding people weren't automatically safe targets. The criminals, the nut
cases, the drunks, etc, the people we have to worry about having guns
aren't obeying the restrictions of when and where and how they can have
one. But they know if they bring a gun somewhere illegally, they will
probably be the only one who has one.

In real life, the guy with the gun isn't a tough athlete who can whip
out his piece and blow away the bad guys driving toward him at high
speed.

The bad guy is usually a cowardly bulley getting his kicks by harrassing
someone that appears weaker. This is why they don't get out of their cars
and the few that do end up backing down when they realize that they don't
have their armored protection and are now dealing with someone who is in
good physical shape one-on-one.

Because they are cowards, there just needs to be a credible threat. It's
not even pulling out a gun. A credible threat can be just giving them a
message that thousands of dollars of body damage can be done to their
vehicle by a bicyclist. I think that legally being able to carry a fire
arm is such a credible threat. It doesn't even require any particular
person having one, just the would be bullies thinking he might have one.

The guy with the gun is much more often a clumsy drunk who
gets aggressive toward his friends and family.

If we are to believe those that would have the population disarmed.

Then again, the clumsy abusive drunk knows how to get a gun illegally
from the guy he met at the bar.

wrote in message
oups.com...
On Apr 26, 7:22 am, "DI" wrote:


Point a CO2 BB gun at someone and you are likely to get your butt shot
off
with the real thing...

"Likely"?

Got data?

- Frank Krygowski

Got data? Stupidity doesn't keep data, if you doubt it, get yourself a
CO2 pistol, walk up to a policeman and point it at him. Have a valid Will
first.

wrote:
On Apr 26, 6:37 am, David Steuber wrote:
writes:
Why are you so afraid? Why the paranoia??
It's not a question of paranoia. It's simply better to have a gun and
not need it than to need a gun and not have it.

True. Even more true if you walk off road and see a rattlesnake,
(sometimes of the human variety).

Well, maybe not. IIRC, guns kept in the home for "protection" are
something like 40 times more likely to be used for killing a family
member than for defending against an intruder. That makes it not so
simple.

That's a different case than carrying it in your pants. Some people
leave their guns on display (loaded?) in the living room. Sure doesn't
help when the bad guy is in the living room and you are in bed.

It would not bother me at all to haul around a three pound lump of
iron for forty years and never need to so much as show that I have
it. It would bother me to find myself in a situation where having
that three pound lump of iron could help me stay alive or hold onto my
property. I would be incensed if I did not have that three pound lump
of iron in that situation.

That justification might apply equally well to cycling in a kevlar
vest.

Sorry, but in my experience, and going by the data, the desire to
carry a gun is usually based on confusing life with movies. Real life
isn't much like an action flick.

In real life, the guy with the gun isn't a tough athlete who can whip
out his piece and blow away the bad guys driving toward him at high
speed. The guy with the gun is much more often a clumsy drunk who
gets aggressive toward his friends and family.

That's a big 10-4. Around here it's a clumsy red neck drunk with a gun
in his pickup, which, naturally, he drives drunk.

- Frank Krygowski

Life just happens, and I just watch (Usually).
Bill Baka

"Bill" wrote in message
t...
wrote:
Ummm,
Guys,
I meant to shoot a dog, not a person, and only then if it is in the
country, big, and about to take a chunk out of you. I don't even want to
know what the motorists around here are packing.
Everyone should own a gun, but keep it inside the house, not on the bike.
I would rather a dog running away from getting shot again than have a
chunk of my leg chewed on, or worse.
Bill Baka

I read in your original post that you mentioned taking out the windshield
of a SUV, do dogs drive SUV's in your neighborhood?

On Thu, 26 Apr 2007 12:13:37 -0500, "DI" wrote:


wrote in message
roups.com...
On Apr 26, 7:22 am, "DI" wrote:


Point a CO2 BB gun at someone and you are likely to get your butt shot
off
with the real thing...

"Likely"?

Got data?

- Frank Krygowski

Got data? Stupidity doesn't keep data, if you doubt it, get yourself a
CO2 pistol, walk up to a policeman and point it at him. Have a valid Will
first.


You could also have a stamped envelope with a letter to
DarwinAwards.com on you, describing your plan, and hope that it gets
mailed. You might win a book or something.


--
Click here every day to feed an animal that needs you today !!!
http://www.theanimalrescuesite.com/

Paul ( pjm @ pobox . com ) - remove spaces to email me
'Some days, it's just not worth chewing through the restraints.'
'With sufficient thrust, pigs fly just fine.'
HVAC/R program for Palm PDA's
Free demo now available online http://pmilligan.net/palm/